|
The collider is Kingpin's effort to defy fate.
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2018 20:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 16:55 |
|
|
It turns out the large hadrons we collided were the friends we made along the way.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2018 21:02
|
|
|
The Bee posted:Or you, you know, have 90 million dollars spent on an entertaining, stylish, and refreshingly distinct product. That seems kind of important too. Marketing speak isn't that important. Because I'm unfair, I'm going to compare Spider-Verse to Kiki's Delivery Service. There's a scene in both movies where a kid flies through a city and ends up completely ignored by the jaded residents. In the former movie it's just a gag, in the latter it's a rather sharp insight into childhood. The main character has always felt herself special for being a witch, but turns out that what she felt made her special goes mostly unappreciated by most people. And to add insult to injury, after they've begun to feel not that special at all, she loses her powers all-together. This all reflects common experiences of growth. What Kiki's Delivery Service does right is that doesn't use something fantastical as a metaphor for something mundane (like dimensional collisions as a metaphor for familial collisions), because that's boring. The movie is simply about something mundane, and makes it fantastical. Spider-Verse in fact ends with a rather sinister lesson, because the road to growing up means losing one's individuality by being assimilated into the cross-dimensional Spider-Franchise. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Dec 23, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2018 21:05
|
|
|
Props to Daniel Pemberton just absolutely crushing the score and sound design. I'm planning on making a Spotify playlist with all the tracks intertwined with the soundtrack as presented in the movie. It's just so good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2018 22:02
|
|
|
hiddenriverninja posted:Props to Daniel Pemberton just absolutely crushing the score and sound design. I'm planning on making a Spotify playlist with all the tracks intertwined with the soundtrack as presented in the movie. It's just so good. Predator's soundwork was off the fuckin chaaaaiiin
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2018 22:33
|
|
|
The underlying theme of Into the Spider-Verse is choice and the agency to make choices and it's not particularly subtle. The struggle that Miles faces throughout the movie is that while he is an intelligent and artistic kid, his choices are constantly being made for him. His self-expression and desire to leave a mark on the world are deterred by his father (Who wields both societal and familial authority), who has also forced on Miles a new school and environment where Miles has a more difficult time both standing out and fitting in (To the point that he even has to wear a uniform). And as the movie progresses, when Miles is bitten by a radioactive spider, he doesn't have a choice not to gain powers—he's a new spider-person, whether he likes it or not. Then later, when his universe's Spider-Man gives him the mission to destroy the collider, Miles again doesn't have a choice—he's seen the collider and the damage it can cause, and his home and family will be wiped out if he doesn't stop it. What gradually begins to happen, however, is that as Miles gains more agency in the story, he also gains greater control over his powers. For instance, when he finds Peter B. Parker and convinces him to help, he's able to control his abilities well enough to walk on walls. Later, when he chooses to follow Peter into the lab, he learns how to finally 'stop sticking', and even learns how to web swing during the escape. It's only near the end of the movie, however, that Miles is truly given the agency to make his own choice. When he's tied up by the other Spider-people, he doesn't have to break free and follow them. They're capable heroes—certainly more capable than him—and are almost certain to complete the mission and save Miles' dimension with or without him. Miles could remain in his room, accept his limitations, and remain safe... but he knows it would be at the cost of another Spider-Man dying. When his father gives Miles his inspirational talk, which is mainly focused on reminding Miles of his agency, Miles is finally able to focus and take control of his powers, and can finally make the choice to go out and save the day. And Miles' story isn't the only place choice is highlighted through the movie. Peter B's life fell apart because he was paralyzed by fear over the choice of having a child. Gwen chose to cut herself off from other people after her best friend died. Kingpin chooses to risk the entire city to get back the family he lost due to his choices as a mob boss. poo poo, even the quote from Stan Lee at the end has to do with choice—that it is the action of choosing to help others that makes one a superhero. Miles chose to help people, and you could choose to help people—because there's infinite possibilities, and your choices matter.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2018 22:38
|
|
|
the theme is spider and the film is BadAss
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2018 22:48
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:The underlying theme of Into the Spider-Verse is choice and the agency to make choices and it's not particularly subtle. Choices don't matter if they're all false. The movie portrays the universe as being connected by a spider-web, which is something spiders make to catch prey. So who made it and what exactly does it catch? There's possibly infinite worlds with their own Spider-People, but what exactly causes them to appear and follow the same template. What exactly causes a freak accident to be replicated in every dimension? I mean, it's a bit convenient that Miles Morales becomes a Spider-Person just in time to replace his dimension's Spider-Man. The obvious answer to all this that there's a Spider-God who made the web, is colonizing worlds with Spider-People, and manipulating events behind the scenes. For some reason (it helps catch prey, somehow?). This was of course already established in the comics. This movie is so scattershot that a coming-of-age-ish story about a black teen superhero has a Lovecraftian subplot that's only barely explored. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Dec 23, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2018 23:07
|
|
|
This was the most colorful movie I've ever seen and it will be a war crime if this doesn't get an award for the art design.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2018 23:11
|
|
|
ConfusedUs posted:Also, I gotta say, this movie had the best reveal for Doc Ock. I did not see that coming, at all. Yeah I loved her design. The Dr. Ock suit is very Metal Gear Solid inspired, taking some from Raiden's sneak suit in MGS2 and the Beauty & The Beast unit outfit from MGS4. I also love that the tentacles weren't metal, but looked to be inflated rubber cells, which reminded me of an experimental "soft robotics" tentacle that's actuated by internal springs that's been developed for a whole range of uses, from mining, search & rescue, and surgical purposes. Just a refreshing, modernized take, much like all the designs.. Ghost Leviathan posted:I'm still disappointed we didn't get a tease of Japanese Spider-man, the one with the giant robot. I'm really hoping the sequel will have Spiders-Man.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2018 23:20
|
|
|
mmmmalo posted:I see what you mean now; Miles using his smarts to get out of private school is a misusing-his-powers scene, like Toby Macguire looking for quick cash. I'm not sure what you mean by Miles misunderstanding his position? He seems to understand well enough that he's 'moving up' in some way, and that he has the potential to excel there, but he doesn't want to. Regarding my phrasing, 'Misunderstanding his position', it's just a fancy way of saying he doesn't understand his privilege (a.k.a. His Power) and responsibility. He has the intelligence and the institution to better himself, but he chooses not to take advantage due to his social struggle (and not realizing that this is an artificial conflict he is creating for himself). It's a part of my theory that it's Miles' personhood is his great power, not his role as Spider-Man. As for his conflict regarding his abilities and role as Spider-Man, I kinda disagree that he is struggling with being Spider-Man. My read is that from moment one, once he understands that he has Spider-Man's powers, he is always confident that he can be, and is striving to become, Spider-Man. There are momentary scenes where he struggles against his powers and against the other Spider-Men's perception of him, but I don't read this as inner turmoil about becoming his universe's Spider-Man. It's not like Indiana Jones is struggling with his role as Nazi Puncher when he is struggling to hold onto a Jeep or a Tank. Everything Miles does in the movie is attempt to understand what his Super-Powers are, and how he can apply that to be like his Peter Parker. Infact, I would say the biggest filmic 'Self-Doubt' scene is when Peter B. Parker webs Miles to the chair. What was he doing before that? Insisting he partake in the climax. What does he do immediately after he gets free? Makes his way towards the climax. Miles-as-Spider-Man's conflict is proving himself worthy to people who think otherwise. Miles-as-Miles-Morales' conflict is to understand his worth to the 'real' world. Especially to his father. And this is represented in the film as the academy, where once he comes to respect his father and his desires then Miles finally participates earnestly in his studies and his student body. I will say, the Dad stuff is fairly messy in the first place. Mainly in the last act where resolution is found, despite little action or cause-and-effect change. It's an oddly messy strand for a very well constructed feature.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2018 23:46
|
|
|
I would assume that Jefferson finding his dead brother before they could ever reconcile probably jolted him into wanting to be more open with talking with Miles. That conversation at the bedroom works so well because he's trying to talk about Aaron but ends up talking about what he actually wants to tell Miles.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2018 23:58
|
|
|
The hadron collider was just part of the Gravity/Connections metaphor- the fear of black holes (immense gravity pulling us together, pulling us DOWN), the leap of faith, the spider web motif, the wonder of finding out You’re Just Like Me, it was all themes of relations and selves and alternates, fear of becoming a shadow of someone greater (darkness/gravity again), and the love of knowing you ARE like someone else who understands The hadron was a blunt rear end metaphor about the fear and love of gravity between people, family, existences, and the selves each person is many of
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 00:07
|
|
|
nerdman42 posted:I would assume that Jefferson finding his dead brother before they could ever reconcile probably jolted him into wanting to be more open with talking with Miles. You took too long, now your family's gone. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 00:15
|
|
|
Young Freud posted:Yeah I loved her design. The Dr. Ock suit is very Metal Gear Solid inspired, taking some from Raiden's sneak suit in MGS2 and the Beauty & The Beast unit outfit from MGS4. I also love that the tentacles weren't metal, but looked to be inflated rubber cells, which reminded me of an experimental "soft robotics" tentacle that's actuated by internal springs that's been developed for a whole range of uses, from mining, search & rescue, and surgical purposes. Just a refreshing, modernized take, much like all the designs.. We can see metal in alt designs from other universes though, such as Spiderwoman's.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 00:27
|
|
|
Pick posted:We can see metal in alt designs from other universes though, such as Spiderwoman's. Yeah. Gwen's Doc Ock had the exact same metallic arms as Alfred Molina's Ock from the Raimi films, down to the actuation segmenting on the arms. Liv's Doc Ock set up felt much more advanced and deadly. I also love how the arms being rubbery fit her character too, being hyper-flexible and easily concealable like a real octopus is, as she spends half the movie hiding in plain sight in whatever role he needs to to get by.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 02:22
|
|
|
I just read the synopsis to the comic book Spider-Verse titles and  How they managed to pull together a good plot from that mess is a miracle of writing. I've fell down the Wikipedia rabbit-hole looking up comic book storylines before and I've never seen anything that confusing and unnecessary. Except maybe the Clone Saga, which just seems to fit with how insane the Spider-Verse is. Spider-Man is cool without some weird mystic interdimensional spider convoluted backstory.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 02:30
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:Choices don't matter if they're all false. into the spider-verse is a worm crossover fanfic, then
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 02:31
|
|
|
LifeLynx posted:I just read the synopsis to the comic book Spider-Verse titles and Thankfully they just seem to have taken a name from a mostly unrelated crossover and very, very loosely adapted the beginning of Bendis' Miles Morales stuff. Honestly, I don't know why they didn't just call it Shattered Dimensions, which is both taken from a better piece of media than the Spider-verse comic and a better, more accurate title.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 02:55
|
|
|
So unlike Lamps, I have now heard the album. It was good, but they missed out on some prime rhyming. And it needed to be longer. Before I forget, Merry Christmas to all. And be sure to donate money to your nearest starving Spider-Man.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 02:58
|
|
|
evilmiera posted:So unlike Lamps, I have now heard the album. It was good, but they missed out on some prime rhyming. And it needed to be longer. This is how you know he's truly a miserable miserly bastard. He won't even come out of his ivory Movie Lord tower to listen to a simple Chistmas album. What kind of person is so awful that they refuse to listen to Chris Pine singing about Spider-Man?
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 03:28
|
|
|
I Before E posted:Honestly, I don't know why they didn't just call it Shattered Dimensions, which is both taken from a better piece of media than the Spider-verse comic and a better, more accurate title.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 03:30
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:This is how you know he's truly a miserable miserly bastard. He won't even come out of his ivory Movie Lord tower to listen to a simple Chistmas album. What kind of person is so awful that they refuse to listen to Chris Pine singing about Spider-Man? Bravest has never known joy, and the very concept frightens him.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 03:37
|
|
|
Lamps big post is entirely bunk for....well a lot of reasons but the one that sticka out the most is just how hard they had to twist to ignore the entire point of why the admirable part of Spider-Man is they get back up. Its not just that they survive it's that they get back up and keep trying to do better to help people to save people. Like you have to willfully ignoring all the context of every bit of the plot and characterization to turn that into "Oh they're just lionizing that they survive." Almost as if they're just trying to sound smart and contradictory.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 03:41
|
|
|
Yes, but have you considered...that good thing is bad?!?
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 03:48
|
|
|
Phylodox posted:Yes, but have you considered...that good thing is bad?!? Krogan are pretty horrible, yeah.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 04:03
|
|
|
Phylodox posted:Yes, but have you considered...that good thing is bad?!? 
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 04:03
|
|
|
LifeLynx posted:I just read the synopsis to the comic book Spider-Verse titles and Honestly, it borrows more from the Spider-Men mini than anything, right down to the advice Peter gave Miles.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 04:12
|
|
|
Imagine being a kid and getting all excited watching this movie with the spider people, then wanting to find the comic book it’s based on to read about all the adventures of these cool heroes. That series was like Final Destination but instead of teens getting killed by death it was interesting concepts being brutally murdered by a lovely boring vampire man.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 04:49
|
|
|
Badablack posted:Imagine being a kid and getting all excited watching this movie with the spider people, then wanting to find the comic book it’s based on to read about all the adventures of these cool heroes. Luckily, nobody reads comics anymore. They've been aggressively chasing off readers since the 90s.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 05:19
|
|
|
wdarkk posted:The collider is Kingpin's effort to defy fate. BravestOfTheLamps posted:Choices don't matter if they're all false. Moving away from bonds/family talk for a sec, I feel like these maybe captures one of the thematic links between the hero and the villain -- Kingpin's aim to defy fate is analogous to Miles's dread towards all of the things he is expected to do? By way of a loose chain between expected > obligated > destined. The defeat of Kingpin is then (in part) Miles learning to love his fate, a la Nietzche? All that he has been, and all he has determined he must be... though if you compare Kingpin wanting his family back with Miles wanting his old friends/life back, Miles's case seems to substitute fatherly authority for fate, which seems a bit sillier to declare immutable, even if a kid might regard it as such.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 05:24
|
|
|
Amor fati, love ya papi, same dif
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 05:26
|
|
|
mmmmalo posted:Moving away from bonds/family talk for a sec, I feel like these maybe captures one of the thematic links between the hero and the villain -- Kingpin's aim to defy fate is analogous to Miles's dread towards all of the things he is expected to do? By way of a loose chain between expected > obligated > destined. The defeat of Kingpin is then (in part) Miles learning to love his fate, a la Nietzche? All that he has been, and all he has determined he must be... though if you compare Kingpin wanting his family back with Miles wanting his old friends/life back, Miles's case seems to substitute fatherly authority for fate, which seems a bit sillier to declare immutable, even if a kid might regard it as such. The life-crushing demands of an overbearing father can very much feel like the hand of fate viced around your throat. It can very much feel immutable for a lot of unlucky children who have to do what they’re told to earn conditional approval, or even financial support, risking being thrown to the streets. It’s a real and awful thing and it’s really cool that the Dad in this movie saw what he was doing to ruin his child and opened the gently caress up, since that same cold demand saw his brother estranged and then dead.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 06:12
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:The problem with that is that you end up with 90 million dollars spent on declaring that family is important or something. Good job describing every Star Wars movie, you absolute loving dingus
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 06:34
|
|
|
Saw it with my Spider-Man loving friend. It was great! As we left the theatre, he lamented to me that we didn't get to see Spider-Man 2099 at all. Guess which dumbasses didn't stay for any post credits?
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 06:40
|
|
|
Black August posted:The life-crushing demands of an overbearing father can very much feel like the hand of fate viced around your throat. It can very much feel immutable for a lot of unlucky children who have to do what they’re told to earn conditional approval, or even financial support, risking being thrown to the streets. It’s a real and awful thing and it’s really cool that the Dad in this movie saw what he was doing to ruin his child and opened the gently caress up, since that same cold demand saw his brother estranged and then dead. I'm agree, I'm just saying that Miles viewing his dad as a inescapable force comparable to fate (if indeed he does) is a misapprehension -- or else it will become a misapprehension as he grows beyond being dependent on his parents. The film is like, walking a line between suggesting to kids that they don't need to resent their parents and can flourish under the restrictions they embody, suggesting to parents to ease their restrictions lest they lose people forever... I guess it bothers me that Miles's success required regret and apologies from fate? Outright challenging fate/father/law seems to be deemed futile... Like don't get me wrong, on an interpersonal level the dad's confession is good behavior, but the way Miles seemingly /required/ that in order to move forward irks me. I think BotL's visual of being caught in spiderweb of fate matches up with Miles experience, but I want Miles to overcome applying that deference to father-as-symbol to his dad-as-person, I guess? Or like, I'm worried that Spiderman hugging his officer father implies a Spiderman unwilling to challenge the restrictions being applied (I don't think this is actually what amor fati means, but I'm not super familiar with Nietzche). Ideally he could do both! But I'm not sure he's there yet Also, did Kingpin ever get a heartfelt apology from fate, or does he just get coal in his stocking for being bad
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 06:56
|
|
|
the bit in the final fight where kingpin bleeds across dimensions while fighting miles is a visualisation of the idea that, because of who he is as a person, he'll drive his family away through his actions regardless of the timeline, imo
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 07:10
|
|
|
ungulateman posted:the bit in the final fight where kingpin bleeds across dimensions while fighting miles is a visualisation of the idea that, because of who he is as a person, he'll drive his family away through his actions regardless of the timeline, imo ungulate gets it
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 08:07
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Lamps big post is entirely bunk for....well a lot of reasons but the one that sticka out the most is just how hard they had to twist to ignore the entire point of why the admirable part of Spider-Man is they get back up. Its not just that they survive it's that they get back up and keep trying to do better to help people to save people. Stopping particle accelerators doesn't help people. It's almost the opposite of helping people, in fact. Out there in the Spider-Verse, there exists the world of Naked From The Waist Down Spider-Man. This version of Spider-Man swings around New York with his genitals and anus exposed for all to see. Like all Spider-Men, Naked From the Waist Down Spider-Man suffers. He gets jeered at by New Yorkers every day. Villains hit him for being naked from the waist down. But he gets back up again, because with great power comes great responsibility to expose oneself. But enduring to expose himself doesn't make Naked From The Waist Down Spider-Man admirable. He's just a pervert. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 10:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 16:55 |
|
|
You are a weird and gross rear end in a top hat and even trolling you is starting to lose its luster. Have you listened to the loving Christmas album yet or not? It's not that hard of a question to answer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2018 10:30
|
|