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My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

I'm completely convinced some Ubisoft exec demanded that a character get killed, and in response they made up Horatio and inserted him into the mostly finished game just enough so he'd register as "a character" to the casual observer.

I remember it also felt a lot like generally the scenario writers, dialogue writers and gameplay designers would each work on their thing, but not tell each other what they were on about, and no one supervised it. Pretty sure I posted about that, lemme dig it up.

e:

My Lovely Horse posted:

Just played a side mission about some guy who disappered, objective for the last part mentioned he was dead which hadn't come up before, and told me to wipe his data, upon which Marcus called in to the gang and announced “okay, it's uploaded.“
yep

Of all the games, I'm noticing a similar issue in Spider-Man, where on more than one occasion now it feels like there's a cutscene just missing. You rescue a guy from the evil gang and it cuts right to a phone conversation where Pete's like "yep, got him, couldn't question him before the police arrived though." Slightly disappointing every time, in an otherwise really good game.

Speaking of Spider-Man, a ton of folks who worked on it really like Saints Row. That's not exactly a thing dragging it down, it's just very obvious.

My Lovely Horse has a new favorite as of 22:56 on Dec 22, 2018

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Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

Inspector Gesicht posted:

Watch Dogs 2:

Why is there any gunplay? When I first beat Deus Ex: Human Resources I played it as a conventional cover-shooter and got by fine. But Marcus in Watch Dogs 2 has low health that never gets upgraded, no armour, the enemies outnumber you 12 to 1, outflank you in seconds and they call in reinforcements. You might as well reload to the last checkpoint.

in deus ex you didn't have a magic cellphone capable of causing anything more sophisticated that a speak-and-spell to explode

in watch dogs 2 you can take out an entire base full of enemies from half a block away, and that's in the early game

in the late game if ten dudes drew their guns on me i could be all "this is so sad, alexa play despacito" and fire off a 200 dB sonic pulse directly into all of their headsets

Agents are GO!
Dec 29, 2004

Inco posted:

I got Immortal Redneck in the Humble Monthly, and after 10 hours I'm fed up with it. I've had more than a few runs end because I ended up in a situation where I had no way to do damage to the enemies through no fault of my own. The one that finally made me put the game down for good was getting a scroll that left me with a pistol with infinite ammo, and then another scroll that swapped the pistol with a camera that freezes enemies, but doesn't damage them (and also took away my infinite ammo). I had no way to kill enemies short of throwing the camera at them, which does poo poo damage and makes me have to go get the camera before I can attack again. It feels like the game is punishing me for daring to pick up the scrolls.

Play Neurovoider instead. I got it on the same Humble Monthly, and it's great.

Samuringa
Mar 27, 2017

Best advice I was ever given?

"Ticker, you'll be a lot happier once you stop caring about the opinions of a culture that is beneath you."

I learned my worth, learned the places and people that matter.

Opened my eyes.

Oxxidation posted:

in deus ex you didn't have a magic cellphone capable of causing anything more sophisticated that a speak-and-spell to explode

in watch dogs 2 you can take out an entire base full of enemies from half a block away, and that's in the early game

in the late game if ten dudes drew their guns on me i could be all "this is so sad, alexa play despacito" and fire off a 200 dB sonic pulse directly into all of their headsets

And that's exactly why they're asking what's the point of having guns.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Inspector Gesicht posted:

Watch Dogs 2:

Watch Dogs 2 has eight writers which is why it feels so episodic in the negative sense. You face off against Scientologists, Corporate Hackers, Google, Tesla, FBI etc. You take all these groups down a peg in the space of a mission and then they never bother you again. The biggest casualty of this haphazard structure is Horatio, the 5th member of your a group. He doesn't speak or get mentioned in any of the side-missions which raises a red flag. He barely shows up in the main missions and then halfway through the story he gets murdered. He's killed by a completely unrelated gang, avenged, and promptly forgotten about. This really undermines the otherwise tight camaraderie of the gang. Amusingly the story doesn't bottle-neck when he's murdered, so you can hold off on avenging him for a few hours while you take of other Dedsec business.

The story goes that originally Horatio was going to have a whole gang-related subplot, but it was scrapped, leaving just the part where he dies. And presumably keeping his death in was less work than rewriting the back half of the game to account for his presence.

I'm still really annoyed about how Watchdogs 2 flirts painfully close to Deus Ex-y goodness but the lethal combat is usually too dangerous to bother with and the non-lethal stuff is a pain in the rear end to actually use. The third option, relying solely on the drone and RC car, is either so absurdly effective that it makes the game boring or just arbitrarily doesn't work. (Or is is sometimes just a big pain in the rear end - some of those 'puzzles' involving lots of precise maneuvering are obnoxious.)

Part of the problem is that the encounter design is off. It usually relies on 90% basic stealth stuff and then the last 10% is some mildly clever alternate solution you can do if you use the RC car/grabbed a particular useful but largely boring and pragmatic upgrade ahead of time. Similarly, because of the relative trickiness of the non-lethal and the small changes they made to things like ditching pursuers, you feel less powerful than Aiden did in WD1 despite having more options to get the job done and how much the story tries to hype up how cool and unstoppable DedSec is.

John Murdoch has a new favorite as of 15:01 on Dec 23, 2018

Brazilianpeanutwar
Aug 27, 2015

Spent my walletfull, on a jpeg, desolate, will croberts make a whale of me yet?
I’m slowly finishing all the steam games that i’ve had for years,i finished tomb raider 2013 last night and it was great but conrad’s accent was shite,he was supposed to be northern but veered into posh english a bit of scottish scottish and occasionally just american,also i know it’s a game but there’s only so many times lara can miraculously fall and grab onto a conveniently placed handhold,winds me up.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

What did you say the strategy was?
Sleeping dogs is drat fun, but a few things that frustrate me:
Can't rebind controls. I hit the wrong buttons in combat because I don't want b to be grab, y to be counter, or a to do nothing at all.
The combat targetting is a bit dodgy. Slipping past the basic thug in front of you to try and grab the heavy guy behind him sucks
There aren't enough ways to get triad reputation. The police have loads of side quests, as unforgiving as taking out a parking meter can be. The triad experience it's maximise your reputation in fights by not killing people as fast, or get 2 out of 3 stars on every mission.

Punished Chuck
Dec 27, 2010

Sleeping Dogs ruined every aggressive driving game, whether it’s like an action game with driving like GTA or a regular racing game that encourages crashing and running people off the road like Burnout, for me until the end of time because the ram button that flings you at top speed either straight ahead or to either side to smash into other drivers is such a great feature that I expect it to be in every game and just hit X/square without thinking and usually e-brake into a wall

Samuringa
Mar 27, 2017

Best advice I was ever given?

"Ticker, you'll be a lot happier once you stop caring about the opinions of a culture that is beneath you."

I learned my worth, learned the places and people that matter.

Opened my eyes.
Or hijacking another car by jumping out of your own car while you're driving it

SiKboy
Oct 28, 2007

Oh no!😱

Chuck Buried Treasure posted:

Sleeping Dogs ruined every aggressive driving game, whether it’s like an action game with driving like GTA or a regular racing game that encourages crashing and running people off the road like Burnout, for me until the end of time because the ram button that flings you at top speed either straight ahead or to either side to smash into other drivers is such a great feature that I expect it to be in every game and just hit X/square without thinking and usually e-brake into a wall

That mechanic was in Vin Diesels Wheelman first as an aside.

Olaf The Stout
Oct 16, 2009

FORUMS NO.1 SLEEPY DAWGS MEMESTER

Samuringa posted:

And that's exactly why they're asking what's the point of having guns.

To accommodate multiple play styles. I'm a loving freak who finishes all games with ghost-stealth and no kills or alerts every time it's an option, but they don't really make games with that as the primary or only way of play anymore. There are still plenty of games where you can do that, but they also have to allow let dudes shoot dudes as much as possible to get a good chunk of sales.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
It bothers me when games that give you invincibility frames don't have them start right when you do the action that gives em to you. See here in Immortal Unchained (a game that is really good in most respects):



This is 1 frame before I hit the button to roll. Note the gigantic mace coming right for me like a baseball bat going for a line drive.



This is 1 frame later, when I hit the button. The roll animation starts, control is taken away from me. At this point I should be invincible, but in Immortal Unchained you aren't until your feet leave the ground, nor are you after your character lands. Only the dive between the jump and ensuing roll give you i-frames.



Hence, I take a gigantic frost-inflicting mace to the back of the dome and die even though I absolutely, definitively hit the button at the right time. This is the exact frame where I take the damage.

CJacobs has a new favorite as of 07:54 on Dec 24, 2018

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

What did you say the strategy was?
He's already swinging. Gotta roll in the windup. Dark souls does the same. Ds2 had a ring that made you invisible during your iframes which was useful because iframes stupidly changed tied to a stat

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
Dark Souls doesn't do the same, you're invincible from the moment you hit the button.

Olaf The Stout
Oct 16, 2009

FORUMS NO.1 SLEEPY DAWGS MEMESTER

CJacobs posted:

It bothers me when games that give you invincibility frames don't have them start right when you do the action that gives em to you. See here in Immortal Unchained (a game that is really good in most respects):



This is 1 frame before I hit the button to roll. Note the gigantic mace coming right for me like a baseball bat going for a line drive.



This is 1 frame later, when I hit the button. The roll animation starts, control is taken away from me. At this point I should be invincible, but in Immortal Unchained you aren't until your feet leave the ground, nor are you after your character lands. Only the dive between the jump and ensuing roll give you i-frames.



Hence, I take a gigantic frost-inflicting mace to the back of the dome and die even though I absolutely, definitively hit the button at the right time. This is the exact frame where I take the damage.

How is this not a timing issue? I'd say if your button press resulted in mistimed invincibility frames and then your death, it was you who mistimed it, not the game. Looks like if you anticipated the swing by a 1/4 second you'll be fine.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!

Olaf The Stout posted:

How is this not a timing issue? I'd say if your button press resulted in mistimed invincibility frames and then your death, it was you who mistimed it, not the game. Looks like if you anticipated the swing by a 1/4 second you'll be fine.

It's not a timing issue because there is no way to know when the invincibility frames start. Unless you do what I did and go back and look at the gameplay frame by frame, it is impossible to tell that you're not invincible and it just looks like you didn't dodge because all of this happens in less than 10 frames. They should start as soon as the animation starts because it's the only way the player can consistently know for certain that they are going to be invincible.

edit: And if the player's feet leaving the ground is the current way to know, it's not good enough. It makes no sense for there to be an imperceptible window of 1/6th of a second where you aren't invincible, followed by nearly a full second where you are, followed by another half second or so where you're not but can easily tell because you've entered the recovery animation.

CJacobs has a new favorite as of 08:45 on Dec 24, 2018

Olaf The Stout
Oct 16, 2009

FORUMS NO.1 SLEEPY DAWGS MEMESTER
Is it consistently the same timing you're missing it by? It still sounds like you're hitting the buttons at the wrong time and blaming the game.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
I didn't deny that I mistimed it. The problem is that it's too hard to time correctly. My complaint is that you shouldn't take damage at the beginning of your roll because there is no way you can possibly adjust for the 10 or so frames where you can be hurt. I said "it's not a timing issue" because you have no say in whether you did or didn't time it right at that point. You cannot think a sixth of a second ahead. It's legitimately only just barely humanly possible.

The solution right now is to make sure you're in the air when the attack swings through you, which requires dodging really early and not dodging on time with also no room to dodge late because you might get snagged like I did. And the Thing Dragging The Game Down for me is that that's nonsensical and not fair.

CJacobs has a new favorite as of 09:05 on Dec 24, 2018

Count Uvula
Dec 20, 2011

---

CJacobs posted:

I didn't deny that I mistimed it. The problem is that it's too hard to time correctly. My complaint is that you shouldn't take damage at the beginning of your roll because there is no way you can possibly adjust for the 10 or so frames where you can be hurt. I said "it's not a timing issue" because you have no say in whether you did or didn't time it right at that point. You cannot think a sixth of a second ahead. It's legitimately only just barely humanly possible.

:confused: This has very little to do with reaction times unless you have less than a sixth of a second between the enemy starting an attack animation and the last possible moment you can roll and still dodge it. If that's the issue you're sure not phrasing it in a sensible way, because the way your posts sound are like you're saying it's impossible to time something if there's any form of a delay to it. The solution is literally just "if there's a half-second delay before your i-frames start, dodge half a second earlier"

Queen Combat
Dec 29, 2017

Lipstick Apathy

CJacobs posted:

which requires dodging really early and not dodging on time

It sounds like that, for this game, "on time" is earlier than you're used to, but it's consistent. Not every game has the same exact mechanics as Dark Souls, friend.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

What did you say the strategy was?

Queen Combat posted:

It sounds like that, for this game, "on time" is earlier than you're used to, but it's consistent. Not every game has the same exact mechanics as Dark Souls, friend.

Just realised it's cjacobs, which means the surge is probably a better reference point despite it not having iframes.

It was a very good lp

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


I picked up Hollow Knight for the switch and I'm enjoying it and just like Into the Breach some of the things dragging it down are definitely me but the things that aren't:

Im not a fan of the map system. It's a Metroidvania but you don't get a map until you buy it. And then after you buy it if you didn't buy and equipment the compass too bad you won't know where you are.

Map updates? That's another item to buy because if you don't get a quill how can you update the map? I think this thematically but hate it from a mechanical standpoint

Ive explored three different areas and unless I'm really missing something I've only found movement abilities and the not-missiles and nothing else to show myself getting stronger.

I haven't really been a fan of the Souls style die and you loleave a corpse mechanic since Demons Souls so that just automatically makes it to the list


And the last one is actually hardware but there's something in my apartment loving with the joycons because they just go unresponsive sometimes. I'll be hitting the sword button and nothing will happen for 4-5 presses. The left one even stops and goes through it's whole flashing lights thing it does when you first turn the system on.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




gently caress the RobCo facility in Fallout 3. "Let's have a poorly lit maze filled with killer robots and turrets, that sounds like fun!" Hamilton's Hideaway is also terrible:stonk:

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




ilmucche posted:

Sleeping dogs is drat fun, but a few things that frustrate me:
Can't rebind controls. I hit the wrong buttons in combat because I don't want b to be grab, y to be counter, or a to do nothing at all.
The combat targetting is a bit dodgy. Slipping past the basic thug in front of you to try and grab the heavy guy behind him sucks
There aren't enough ways to get triad reputation. The police have loads of side quests, as unforgiving as taking out a parking meter can be. The triad experience it's maximise your reputation in fights by not killing people as fast, or get 2 out of 3 stars on every mission.

The main thing dragging down Sleeping Dogs is that there just isn't that much to do after you've completed the main story. It's just not a fun world to gently caress around in.

Attestant
Oct 23, 2012

Don't judge me.

Len posted:

Ive explored three different areas and unless I'm really missing something I've only found movement abilities and the not-missiles and nothing else to show myself getting stronger.

If those are usual first three areas people find, then that's about right. You've only really started to scratch the surface at that point, and the game is mainly unlocking movement options for you at this stage.

For the most part, combat upgrades are charms, and it takes a bit to find the really nice ones.

Danger - Octopus!
Apr 20, 2008


Nap Ghost
I bought Katamari Damacy Reroll and it doesn't seem to let you access an options menu until after the first level, so it seems you're stuck with a weird resolution windowed mode and default controls until after that.

rydiafan
Mar 17, 2009


Count Uvula posted:

The solution is literally just "if there's a half-second delay before your i-frames start, dodge half a second earlier"

I think his point is that it's impossible to dodge a half second early for something you only have a sixth of a second to dodge, but maybe I'm misunderstanding the heck out of him.

Zoig
Oct 31, 2010

Dodging is kinda hosed in the game though, there's a level where enemies shoot hitscan shots, and the proper timing has the laser stop on your roll, while bad timing has it miss but still hurt. It works ok once you figure out to dodge the instant you hear the charge sound but for a long while it felt like it was impossible.

Also ever single gun takes 2 stats, and often the secondary non consistent stat for the gun type is the higher one.

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all
Fun Shoe
This is entirely unfair (I'm in a somewhat foul mood, so its not helping me acknowledge that), but Two Point Hospital has something that always annoys me; I call it Progression Complexity. It's something that's especially annoying when I'm not really versed in a game (I didn't play Theme Hospital).

First level? You have a exclusively ~this~ disease, so you need ~this~ room and ~this~ staff to handle it. Fine. Second level includes a new disease (or two), which requires a different set of rooms (and probably the same staff, just more of them) to fix. Third level probably has more of all of those.

Like, I totally understand why it's done, and I can't think of a alternative, but man alive is it annoying when I find a point of failure (not enough docs to diagnose someone, not enough nurses to handle all the rooms, oh I forgot an entire room) when I'm still trying to get a feel for what I'm doing.

Leal
Oct 2, 2009
Spiders are really loving annoying in EDF, especially on hard difficulty. They shoot out webs, if you're close its like getting hit by a shotgun. They can leap to close the distance immediately but oh no, they can also hit you with webs from downtown. And they linger around, meaning you can run into them and still get hurt. Even if they are dead and the webs are still out you get hurt. So its great when you get like 50 of them jumping at you and filling the entire screen with webs. Every level that has an overload of spiders requires a lower difficulty for my brothers and I.

Somfin
Oct 25, 2010

In my🦚 experience🛠️ the big things🌑 don't teach you anything🤷‍♀️.

Nap Ghost

Leal posted:

Spiders are really loving annoying in EDF, especially on hard difficulty. They shoot out webs, if you're close its like getting hit by a shotgun. They can leap to close the distance immediately but oh no, they can also hit you with webs from downtown. And they linger around, meaning you can run into them and still get hurt. Even if they are dead and the webs are still out you get hurt. So its great when you get like 50 of them jumping at you and filling the entire screen with webs. Every level that has an overload of spiders requires a lower difficulty for my brothers and I.

Jumping spiders die fast, thankfully, but they do feel like a "take out half of the squad before they get to act or just restart" sort of enemy

Leave
Feb 7, 2012

Taking the term "Koopaling" to a whole new level since 2016.
So far, I'm enjoying The Evil Within 2, but is it just me, or does Sebastian move kind of...Chunky and slowly? Maybe it's because I've got some upgrades to get (I just killed my first enemy), but he seems awful slow and unweildy.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Leavemywife posted:

So far, I'm enjoying The Evil Within 2, but is it just me, or does Sebastian move kind of...Chunky and slowly? Maybe it's because I've got some upgrades to get (I just killed my first enemy), but he seems awful slow and unweildy.

I'm right there with you. The camera feels to on your back too on top of that.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Leavemywife posted:

So far, I'm enjoying The Evil Within 2, but is it just me, or does Sebastian move kind of...Chunky and slowly? Maybe it's because I've got some upgrades to get (I just killed my first enemy), but he seems awful slow and unweildy.

I don't recall that being a problem and I loved the game but, yeah, if memory serves, you do unlock faster run speeds later.

Samuringa
Mar 27, 2017

Best advice I was ever given?

"Ticker, you'll be a lot happier once you stop caring about the opinions of a culture that is beneath you."

I learned my worth, learned the places and people that matter.

Opened my eyes.
I'd advise rushing for the Corner Kill upgrade, you're supposed to be more of a stalker than a fighter.

Leave
Feb 7, 2012

Taking the term "Koopaling" to a whole new level since 2016.

RareAcumen posted:

I'm right there with you. The camera feels to on your back too on top of that.

Turning up the camera movement speed helped that a bit, thankfully. It still feels like Sebastian himself is...Heavier, I think is what I want to say, than he should be.


BiggerBoat posted:

I don't recall that being a problem and I loved the game but, yeah, if memory serves, you do unlock faster run speeds later.

I hope so. His sprint is kind of like a light jog at this point, and that loving thing from the chase scene in the hotel place seemed like it was about two feet from my rear end at all times.


Samuringa posted:

I'd advise rushing for the Corner Kill upgrade, you're supposed to be more of a stalker than a fighter.

I'm going to have a bit of trouble adjusting to that. In games, I'm usually about smashing bad guys into the dirt, optimally with other bad guys. So far, this game is giving me the willies, so maybe I'll be fine having to avoid a bit of combat.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Leavemywife posted:

Turning up the camera movement speed helped that a bit, thankfully. It still feels like Sebastian himself is...Heavier, I think is what I want to say, than he should be.

My issue isn't even the camera turning it just feels way too close to his back all the time.

Y'know what? It's like I'm playing The Last of Us but the camera is just always hovering over your shoulder like you're aiming. I just don't care for having that close a look. I prefer being able to see my entire character if I'm playing a third person game. Most of the time you can't see Sebastian's legs like Rob Liefeld is in charge of the camera or something. Not to mention most of the environment to the side left or right of you depending on where the camera orients to.

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all
Fun Shoe
Am I missing a way to reliably / significantly level your party in Pokemon Let's Go? Im underleveled to the point where even my type match ups aren't helping me and catching wild mons is decidedly not cutting the mustard.

(e: I forgot the framing phrase, this method of leveling me up is pissing me off, now.)

MisterBibs has a new favorite as of 04:20 on Dec 25, 2018

Professor Wayne
Aug 27, 2008

So, Harvey, what became of the giant penny?

They actually let him keep it.
I played The Evil Within 2 using their first person view they patched in. It was pretty great.

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Leave
Feb 7, 2012

Taking the term "Koopaling" to a whole new level since 2016.

Professor Wayne posted:

I played The Evil Within 2 using their first person view they patched in. It was pretty great.

I was wondering if that's more of a hindrance than not; I like the idea, but since the game isn't run and gun, I don't think it'd work for me. Plus, the extra vision coverage from third person is definitely a boon to my stealth abilities.

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