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This show's real advantage over One Piece is that it is a good adaptation of what seems like an okay LN, as opposed to a terrible adaptation of a loving phenomenal manga
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Dec 25, 2018 01:48
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doomrider7 posted:Not sure I quite follow. I mean the worship him as a God because from their POV, he basically IS a benevolent God to them asking for little more than loyalty in return for giving them so much more in return. Like it's not small improvements on life, but literal transcendental events to their lives. The story has written him as a benevolent god with followers who trust him completely and give up their own agency to do so. I don't know if it's unrealistic or not for a fantasy being with godlike powers, but it's certainly not a very diverse cast dynamic. Clarste fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Dec 25, 2018 |
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Dec 25, 2018 01:56
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I mean the vast majority of the cast are monsters, there has to be a deep psychological/biological drive to stand by beings of great power to become sub bosses/underlings. we see it with the orcs and the orc lord, the lizardmen and gabiru. when does charisma end and the fantasy game mechanics begin
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Dec 25, 2018 02:07
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Clarste posted:The story has written him as a benevolent god with followers who trust him completely and give up their own agency to do so. I don't know if it's unrealistic or not for a fantasy being with godlike powers, but it's certainly not a very diverse cast dynamic. Again I'm not entirely sure I follow. They trust him completely because he's given them absolutely no reason not to. He does contemplate and lampshade this in LN so I think thats6 where the mix up is coming from. And what do you mean by loss of agency?
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Dec 25, 2018 02:14
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doomrider7 posted:Again I'm not entirely sure I follow. They trust him completely because he's given them absolutely no reason not to. He does contemplate and lampshade this in LN so I think thats6 where the mix up is coming from. And what do you mean by loss of agency? What you're missing is that the writer chose to make a world where Rimuru is all-powerful and always correct about everything (actually he has a voice in his head that tells him everything he needs to know). That's something they came up with, not a part of the natural world that everything else naturally flows from. The lack of agency is basically how the dwarves and goblins and wolves that joined the village have absolutely no goals other than to help Rimuru with whatever.
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Dec 25, 2018 02:20
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It is based on a YA novel. It does not have to be deep, just enjoyable.
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Dec 25, 2018 02:30
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I'm not saying it does, but it does limit the kind of interaction available within his village.
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Dec 25, 2018 02:33
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Clarste posted:What you're missing is that the writer chose to make a world where Rimuru is all-powerful and always correct about everything (actually he has a voice in his head that tells him everything he needs to know). That's something they came up with, not a part of the natural world that everything else naturally flows from. When his goal is to improve their lives in a very macro way, I'm not really seeing the lack of agency here since it's a goal they've all had in some way. Again, these are all bit of nuance missing from the LN.
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Dec 25, 2018 02:38
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doomrider7 posted:When his goal is to improve their lives in a very macro way, I'm not really seeing the lack of agency here since it's a goal they've all had in some way. Again, these are all bit of nuance missing from the LN. Maybe? But I'm talking about the anime. Anyway, out of context you sound a little like a cultist and it's funny. Clarste fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Dec 25, 2018 |
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Dec 25, 2018 02:40
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Cao Ni Ma posted:I mean the vast majority of the cast are monsters, there has to be a deep psychological/biological drive to stand by beings of great power to become sub bosses/underlings. Pretty much this. I'll post my full thoughts later after work.
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Dec 25, 2018 02:44
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Clarste posted:The story has written him as a benevolent god with followers who trust him completely and give up their own agency to do so. I don't know if it's unrealistic or not for a fantasy being with godlike powers, but it's certainly not a very diverse cast dynamic. We're going to learn a little more about how the monster caste/ranking/loyalty/whatever system works after this arc, so there's at least an in-world reason why they do it. Plus there's something else going on here that hasn't been spelled out yet but I'm sure is meant to be picked up by now, so I'm going to spoiler it just in case. Monsters have never had a unifying civilization. They've always been disparate tribes (even the same species sometimes), fighting each other and the humanoid civilizations. This is a first for them, and they aren't stupid. They know they're getting an extremely good life, they know exactly who's giving it to them and how little they're expected to give in return. They've never had anyone treat them like this. Neither of those things will change your valid complaint, everyone in Rimuru's side is still written to practically worship the ground he walks on and that's the opposite dynamic to have if you want interesting relationships. But if you're worried things are going to go awful and Rimuru is ever going to exploit that, so far as I've read I can say that won't happen. So far we've got Rimuru interacting with semi-interesting characters and reacting to what the world brings to his doorstep (he'll soon stop being fully reactionary, though). This arc and the resolution to it is kind of the end of the first act for the whole series. Things are about to change, and other characters we've yet to meet might bring a little more of what you're looking for, but I wouldn't hold your breath if you're looking for deep characters with interesting personalities and exploring the relationships they have, don't have or break with each other. This is a pretty simple story as far as those things are concerned, with a only little bit of outside intrigue to break up the monotony of a largely happy life. Onean fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Dec 25, 2018 |
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Dec 25, 2018 02:48
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Personally, I don't think "well, goblins love being minions to monster lords!" addresses anything because that's still ignoring the fact that the writer chose to write them that way. Nothing in fiction is set in stone, so appealing to in-universe explanations is totally meaningless. But for the record, I do enjoy the show for being comfy and seeing him be nice to everyone.
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Dec 25, 2018 02:48
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Yeah, like I said in the other half of my post, that's a totally valid complaint regarding this series.
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Dec 25, 2018 02:54
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doomrider7 posted:And what do you mean by loss of agency? What does the majority of the cast do? What does the majority of the cast want to do? It's really hard to answer that question because their motivations are all tied really strongly to Rimiru. That's a lack of agency on their part. Gobta and Gabiru are some of the better characters because they show more personality that's not 'fawning over or doing Lord Rimiru's bidding.' Onean posted:So far we've got Rimuru interacting with semi-interesting characters and reacting to what the world brings to his doorstep (he'll soon stop being fully reactionary, though). It's like the problem with the Ogre redesign. They were pretty cool and out there before they got their names, now they're not so cool and out there (not only because of their looks but also how they act.) Hakkurou, Kurobei and Souei are the best ogres because while they're still fully in Rimiru's camp they generally do their own thing to help out without direction. Like real followers would.
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Dec 25, 2018 02:56
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Yeah, definitely.
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Dec 25, 2018 03:01
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(I should probably mention the usual here. Having a bad part or two doesn't make something bad, and even if something is bad you don't need anyone's permission to like it. This is still a good anime, and the series as a whole is too, but it could be better. I'm hoping that Fuse doesn't take the popularity of this and say they're good enough, because I think they could really put out something great if they keep learning and keep writing.)
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Dec 25, 2018 03:25
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Onean posted:(I should probably mention the usual here. Having a bad part or two doesn't make something bad, and even if something is bad you don't need anyone's permission to like it. This is still a good anime, and the series as a whole is too, but it could be better. I'm hoping that Fuse doesn't take the popularity of this and say they're good enough, because I think they could really put out something great if they keep learning and keep writing.) One thing that my contact from Reddit told me about why the series was popular wasn't because it was a power fantasy, but because it was the idea of working for someone like him. I'll look for the post later.
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Dec 25, 2018 03:28
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A more varied set of relationships between Rimuru and their subordinates would absolutely make the show more interesting. And the absolute nature of the adoration is definitely creepy when viewed from an external perspective, but I think that Rimuru’s power base comes from treating their subordinates as people and from helping them to achieve self actualization blunts that criticism slightly. The writer is definitely positioning Rimuru’s intra-group actions as the ideal for leaders in the real world, but Rimuru’s methodology, at least in the anime, seems rooted In compassion, understanding, and empathy which is pretty dope.
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Dec 25, 2018 03:41
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Yeah admittedly I'm behind a couple eps, but thus far I feel like it's helped a lot that Rimuru hasn't, as far as I can recall, actually asked for or even confirmed anyone's loyalty. They just give it freely in exchange for the favors Rimuru does them, and while "they're not my followers, they're my friends" is an old cliche I don't think it feels altogether inappropriate here. That doesn't make the scenario magically free of colonialist undertones or make the characters any deeper, but it does lend the story a certain earnest and optimistic nature that makes me inclined to give it a bit of leeway IMO.
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Dec 25, 2018 03:48
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Spiritus Nox posted:Yeah admittedly I'm behind a couple eps, but thus far I feel like it's helped a lot that Rimuru hasn't, as far as I can recall, actually asked for or even confirmed anyone's loyalty. They just give it freely in exchange for the favors Rimuru does them, and while "they're not my followers, they're my friends" is an old cliche I don't think it feels altogether inappropriate here. That doesn't make the scenario magically free of colonialist undertones or make the characters any deeper, but it does lend the story a certain earnest and optimistic nature that makes me inclined to give it a bit of leeway IMO. Not sure if it applies if you're talking about the goblins. They LITERALLY didn't have anything and lived the same way as dawn of humanity humans and lived only to be 20 at absolute best with the average being something in the 13-15. This is why they're so fanatical to him. He LITERALLY altered their lives.
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Dec 25, 2018 04:09
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doomrider7 posted:Where the author is a flaming racist? I think it was the director for MMO Junkie, not the author.
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Dec 25, 2018 04:24
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Oh man I loved this episode. There have been other shows where the protagonists were way too overpowered and we're just having fun with the fight. I like that not only were these guys having fun with it, but Rimuru spent the whole time watching his dudes go ham on the orcs while going, "Huh... This may have been a terrible idea..."
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Dec 25, 2018 04:37
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Many of Rimuru's followers acting like cultists is a fair criticism of the show. Yes, Rimuru is a literal god to them, yes, it's established that monsters in this setting display ingrained deference to hierarchy, and yes, Rimuru never takes advantage of their fawning loyalty. But still, the author did choose to write it that way, and it is a bit creepy. I don't think it spoils anything, but it is a thing that's there and it's good to recognize flaws even in the media you enjoy; especially, I'd say. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Dec 25, 2018 |
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Dec 25, 2018 04:51
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ViggyNash posted:Oh man I loved this episode. There have been other shows where the protagonists were way too overpowered and we're just having fun with the fight. I like that not only were these guys having fun with it, but Rimuru spent the whole time watching his dudes go ham on the orcs while going, "Huh... This may have been a terrible idea..." It's even better in the LN where he has this nervousness and is planning all sorts of things on how to deal with the battle when the Kijin casually ask him if they can cut lose. He says yeah sure while thinking, "Don't cry to me if things go wrong" and well...You saw. HE contemplates to himself that the stuff they did would just completely redefine warfare. Skippy McPants posted:Many of Rimuru's followers acting like cultists is a fair criticism of the show. Yes, Rimuru is a literal god to them, yes, it's established that monsters in this setting display ingrained deference to hierarchy, and yes, Rimuru never takes advantage of their fawning loyalty. Fair points. It's never really portrayed in anyway sinister though hence why think it's overthinking it. The internal monologues and some stuff from the LN and spin-offs also help round things out since he does contemplate these things and others. In some ways though it's not really that different from how other magnetic hero's are portrayed if you think about it.
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Dec 25, 2018 05:05
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Sinister is a strong word, but it is inherently... troublesome? Because any time fiction frames blind worship of an authority figure—even one as benevolent and cuddly as Slime Boy—in a positive light, it carries some worrying connotations. Again, I don't think it ruins the experience, but it's definitely something that's worth calling attention to as one part of the story that could be better. Edit: Something I did like from the last couple of episodes is Rimuru being a bit horny for Souei. Is that something from the LN? Cause it's not there at all in the manga. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Dec 25, 2018 |
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Dec 25, 2018 05:36
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Skippy McPants posted:Sinister is a strong word, but it is inherently... troublesome? Because any fictional work wherein sapient beings show slavish adherence to an authority figure—even one as benevolent and cuddly as Slime Boy—carries some worrying connotations. Fair point. I guess I just don't see it since it's not really anything I've not seen before since I don't see it as that different that what One Piece has done at times. I wouldn't say slavish adherence, but people show tremendous devotion to several figures such Cobra, Neptune, Whitebeard, etc., for the same reasons as Slimebro. They're good decent people who work towards making life as best as possible for those under them and often took those people in when others wouldn't and from terrible circumstances showing compassion and never really elevating themselves as being overtly above their peers. Minor spoiler, The whole thing DOES get deconstructed later on. Again a LOT of this stuff gets much more fleshed out in the LN's which you can buy on sale over at Bookwalker. doomrider7 fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Dec 25, 2018 |
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Dec 25, 2018 06:15
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 Ranga continues to be Best Pupper Of All Time also echoing that the sound has been 100% on point, coming from just watching black clover to this is like loving night and day
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Dec 25, 2018 06:23
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Scarecow posted:
The OST and SFX have been Godly. They not only fit perfectly, but as several others have said, they had that good meaty thud to them that gives the attacks weight. Like Kaijin's punch, Shizu's flame attacks, and just about everything in this episode. Edit:  Jesus that came out huge. Anyway, Merry Christmas from Mitz Vah, the character designer and artist of the Tensura LN's featuring dual Santa's Hakuro and Rimuru. doomrider7 fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Dec 25, 2018 |
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Dec 25, 2018 07:37
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I think it helps that, outside of the goblins (who are just getting a general QoL improvement/swore to serve Rimuru for saving them from the direwolves) the others do have some outside motivation. In Ranga's case it's a hierarchical thing even more inherent then whatever monster things is going on. They're wolves. Rimuru killed the old alpha. He is now the alpha. Ranga's devotion can be seen to be a side effect of that point of view (which, while absolutely the author's choice, is also not really uncharacteristic for canines. It's only somewhat troublesome because Ranga is a fully sentient wolf) Kaijin was exiled and had nowhere better to go, and he was grateful to Rimuru for saving his buddies/workers and ensuring that he completed the impossible contract (even if that contract completion ended up being secondary with the trial). It makes sense that he would accompany Rimuru, and his "devotion" has been shown a lot less as "worshiping the ground that Rimuru walks on" and more as enjoying working in a new enviroment and liking Rimuru as a person. Even the relatively shallow dwarf brothers have been shown to be more "chummy" then "praising the ground". The Ogres/Kijin were literally homeless, and they covered why Benimaru decided to join Rimuru. He wanted vengeance and didn't think he could achieve it with no home or allies. Souei et all working for Rimuru stems from that. They're technically speaking mercenaries who have agreed to work for Rimuru. That's somewhat reflected in how Rimuru treats them. He never makes decisions for them. Both with Gabiru and Treyni's mission he effectively presented the choice to Benimaru/the Kijin in general to make a decision. The only really questionable aspect of this is Shion/Shuna's affection for Rimuru which is kinda out of the blue, and that's basically just down to "the author thought it would be funny for them to fight over carrying Rimuru 
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Dec 25, 2018 17:01
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Conot posted:I think it helps that, outside of the goblins (who are just getting a general QoL improvement/swore to serve Rimuru for saving them from the direwolves) the others do have some outside motivation. This. I debate between posting or not posting stuff from the LN or waiting for people to post things and piggyback on them, but this is the gist of it all. To add, the dwarves basically just like their work, but other than Kaijin have god awful business sense and kept getting screwed over in one we or another by people taking advantage of them. Kaijin while an excellent smith, is more of Jack of all Trades engineer along with weapons developer beyond just swords(Kurobe becomes the defacto blade smith with Kaijin focusing on other things). Basically they're now in an environment where they can pursuit their passions without worry with no beurocratic red tape of hassle or worry of becoming homeless vagrants. The ogres are explained to have had a history of working as mercenaries for several factions including both demon Lord's and human armies and live rather insular lives, but take pride and pleasure in serving a powerful master. Their contract with Rimuru is as you say, they want vengeance, but it to stay since they don't have anywhere else to go anymore and Rimuru is both powerful and benevolent so they choose to stay. One of the reasons my guy said the series was so popular is due to the fantasy wanting to work for Rimuru. Basically work for a boss who treats you well, gives you autonomy to follow your passions as long you contribute, and appreciates your contributions and at times even FORCES you to take a break from work just on sheer principle. Consider the whole work culture in Asia(and even some places here in the US) and you can see the appeal and why they'd show so much devotion to Rimuru. doomrider7 fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Dec 25, 2018 |
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Dec 25, 2018 17:41
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Post finally showed up.
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Dec 25, 2018 17:53
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Shouldn't Gobuta have a sword now? Also it's good to have a reminder that Ranga isn't just Rimuru's personal mount, he's also like the second most powerful person in the village.
chumbler fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Dec 26, 2018 |
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Dec 26, 2018 04:48
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Speaking of which I really want to see the elder throw down instead of just hardcore posing.
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Dec 26, 2018 05:00
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ViggyNash posted:Speaking of which I really want to see the elder throw down instead of just hardcore posing. Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.
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Dec 26, 2018 05:04
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por que no los dos
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Dec 26, 2018 05:07
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chumbler posted:Shouldn't Gobuta have a sword now? Also it's good to have a reminder that Ranga isn't just Rimuru's personal mount, he's also like the second most powerful person in the village. He's the goodest of bois.
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Dec 26, 2018 05:08
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Also, new preview images. https: //twitter.com/senpaiShubham/status/1077766384384233473 http://www.ten-sura.com/story/no14/ Just copy and paste the twitter link and adjust.
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Dec 26, 2018 05:11
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Aside from the obvious impending boss fight, we're also coming up on one of the moments that really sold me both on the story and on why Rimuru is a person worth following. After how well they handled Shizu, I'm looking forward to seeing how this rendition goes about it. Spoilers for upcoming stuff: it's the orc's backstory what Rimuru offers them after their defeat.
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Dec 26, 2018 06:48
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Skippy McPants posted:Aside from the obvious impending boss fight, we're also coming up on one of the moments that really sold me both on the story and on why Rimuru is a person worth following. After how well they handled Shizu, I'm looking forward to seeing how this rendition goes about it. Agreed. Rimuru is good slimebro.
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Dec 26, 2018 07:13
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Skippy McPants posted:Aside from the obvious impending boss fight, we're also coming up on one of the moments that really sold me both on the story and on why Rimuru is a person worth following. After how well they handled Shizu, I'm looking forward to seeing how this rendition goes about it. I'm going to be honest, I'm mostly looking forward to how metal it's going to be. Because that's the part that sold me on it
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Dec 26, 2018 07:18
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