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Xtanstic posted:Read and loved: Rivers of London, Alex Verus, The Rook + Stiletto, Libromancer (eh decent). I bounced hard off of Laundry Files #1 and Daniel Faust #1. Maybe I should give LF or DF a second chance? Try Laundry Files again but skip the first book and pretend the series ended 3 books ago with "everyone dies; no moral." Daniel Faust picks way up after the first book, and I admire how the author charges straight into plot challenges instead of shying away.
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Dec 27, 2018 00:47
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Somberbrero posted:Rivers of London is my favorite of the London urban fantasy genre. It's genuinely creepy, the consequences are extremely dire, and it's a drastic departure from the sort of power fantasy narrative that's prevalent in this kind of fiction. There's a couple moments where I was saying out loud 'Oh God, no, don't do that!' I assume you’re talking about London Falling.
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Dec 27, 2018 00:57
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-Fish- posted:Like I said, being frustrated is fine. I'm frustrated with it myself. Jim Butcher is probably frustrated with it. But also it's the internet in 2018 and echo chamber frustration with content creators turn into real life harrassment on a regular basis. Folks are talking about the series "disappearing without a trace" like he didn't release a short story that ties into the upcoming book literally two days ago, or a short story compilation a few months ago. Reminder that Skin Game was released in 2014 & Jim Butcher has repeatedly broken deadlines on Peace Talks. Deadlines that he committed to. This isn't "somebody else making an unreasonable demand of his time". This is literally "an author repeatedly making commitments and breaking them". In literally any other job, you would be fired for that kind of commitment breaking. Don't bring Gaiman's idiocy on the subject into it, either. Gaiman hasn't repeatedly promised to deliver a book and then failed to deliver. Hell, has Gaiman ever publically said he would finish a novel by a given date and failed to do it?
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Dec 27, 2018 01:24
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Reminder that Skin Game was released in 2014 & Jim Butcher has repeatedly broken deadlines on Peace Talks. Deadlines that he committed to. Unless you bought a copy of Peace Talks already, Butcher doesn't owe you jack poo poo.
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Dec 27, 2018 01:26
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Xtanstic posted:Also, what the gently caress do I read now? I want something fun and light to listen to while walking the dog. I don't mind dabbling in YF. Maybe some dumb schlocky power fantasy? Percy Jackson was okay even if twice the age of the intended audience. If you enjoyed The Rook you might be interested in The Man from the Diogenes Club.
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Dec 27, 2018 01:33
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jivjov posted:Unless you bought a copy of Peace Talks already, Butcher doesn't owe you jack poo poo. Did I say he did? At the same time, until Butcher follows through on commitments he made, I can freely call him a jackass as much as I please.
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Dec 27, 2018 01:42
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Xtanstic posted:
Try the Matthew Swift series.
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Dec 27, 2018 02:29
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jivjov posted:Unless you bought a copy of Peace Talks already, Butcher doesn't owe you jack poo poo. Part of the commitment in buying an unfinished work is in exchange for the promise that the work will be completed. ...to make this more clear, since I know you’re an idiot: if I had known Butcher / GRRM / Rothfuss would never finish their series, I never would have bought the first ones.
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Dec 27, 2018 02:31
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lmao jesus christ y'all
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Dec 27, 2018 02:40
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God drat a lot of entitled cry-babies in this thread.ulmont posted:Part of the commitment in buying an unfinished work is in exchange for the promise that the work will be completed. Hahahaha. What unfinished works are you talking about? As far as I know all the published books are final drafts. To be clear you are buying the book. Period. You aren't "investing" in any way other than your interest and enjoyment. There is no contract, implicit or otherwise, between you and author. Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Dec 27, 2018 |
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Dec 27, 2018 02:49
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jivjov posted:Unless you bought a copy of Peace Talks already, Butcher doesn't owe you jack poo poo. You've been told already why this is stupid. Peace talks is book 15 of a 20 odd book series that prior to this has been released on a slightly more than annual basis, with an active and engaged author who had a reputation for being good at output - which meant people could get into the story, and read them all with the knowledge the next one wouldn't be far behind, with a defined end goal for the story and a proposed number of books meaning you could count the number of years on both hands until the end of the story. Butcher's the one who set that expectation. Somewhere after Changes, that formula / ratio changed - things went to poo poo in terms of release timeframes and Butcher clammed the gently caress up about why I'm not going to give Butcher poo poo about the fact he's taking longer on this book than he has on others, but it is a concern because each of us posting here is sufficiently invested in the overall story that yes, we're concerned as to why he keeps missing self imposed deadlines, and he's mostly radio silent about what's going on. If he's got writer's block, I sympathize, the poo poo with his house doesn't help, and yes, life does in fact get in the way... but that stuff was 2 / 3 years ago, what's going on now? At least give us some insight on what's going on, and a realistic timeframe for when the next book is coming.
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Dec 27, 2018 02:50
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tithin posted:You've been told already why this is stupid. Hw owes you nothing. Move on with your life.
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Dec 27, 2018 02:52
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How is it entitlement to want to spend money on the finished product of an artist before you lose any interest in them?
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Dec 27, 2018 02:54
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Proteus Jones posted:Hw owes you nothing. Move on with your life. Butcher Defence Force itt.
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Dec 27, 2018 02:55
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Proteus Jones posted:Hw owes you nothing. Move on with your life. An author writes a book, ostensibly part of a series. Because he does a good job, readers buy the next installment. And the next. He entertains the readers, and makes them want more...that's part of his job. Why are people surprised then at the logical progression of their feelings when the author doesn't hand out the next pellet when the bell is rung? People SHOULD be impatient, because the author did everything he could to build their expectations, which are perfectly reasonable. Does the author owe the readers? Of course he does, he worked hard to make them want that next book. Now that they do, it's a bit churlish to say that they are being unreasonable. And bitching about an author who has failed to meet the expectations he set is what the internet is for (and porn). And literally no one is hurt by any of this, and the author reaps a benefit because bitching drives interest.
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Dec 27, 2018 03:07
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tithin posted:Butcher clammed the gently caress up about why Butcher didn't clam up, he's been pretty open about why his work has slowed down. I know this because I've posted it several times in this thread. It's not his fault you entitled manchildren either can't be bothered to understand what the man has said on the subject or simply choose not to accept his reasons as valid.
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Dec 27, 2018 03:41
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torgeaux posted:An author writes a book, ostensibly part of a series. Because he does a good job, readers buy the next installment. And the next. He entertains the readers, and makes them want more...that's part of his job. Why are people surprised then at the logical progression of their feelings when the author doesn't hand out the next pellet when the bell is rung? People SHOULD be impatient, because the author did everything he could to build their expectations, which are perfectly reasonable. Unless the readers paid him money in advance for the next book, the author doesn't owe them poo poo. It's fine to be frustrated with the delay, literally everyone in this thread including me is frustrated with the delay. Being frustrated with a delay doesn't magically turn into the author owing you something you haven't paid him for. What's surprising is the level of entitlement y'all have by making these claims of being owed something.
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Dec 27, 2018 03:56
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Let me give you guys a clear example of when an author owes you something and when they don't: Jim Butcher and Subterranean Press owe me a copy of Changes because I paid for a copy of it. Jim Butcher and Penguin do not owe me a copy of Peace Talks because I have not paid for a copy of it. Can you spot the factor that leads to the author/publisher owing me something in one case versus not owing me anything in the other? If you read the last couple of pages and pull your heads out of your asses, you just might get it!
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Dec 27, 2018 03:59
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Is this what being gaslighted (gaslit?) feels like?
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Dec 27, 2018 04:01
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torgeaux posted:An author writes a book, ostensibly part of a series. Because he does a good job, readers buy the next installment. And the next. He entertains the readers, and makes them want more...that's part of his job. Why are people surprised then at the logical progression of their feelings when the author doesn't hand out the next pellet when the bell is rung? People SHOULD be impatient, because the author did everything he could to build their expectations, which are perfectly reasonable. A writer absolutely does not owe his readers. That attitude is actively harmful and the idea that a writer has to please their readers first over writing the story he or she intends to write is ridiculous. Nobody is every happen when that happens. Would you prefer Butcher shits out something he hates or displeased with just so 'readers' are happy they got a new story? Arguably a writer has to poo poo out stories to get paid but that isn't the same thing and honestly I doubt anyone is happy when a writer aims to hit a deadline over aiming to write a good story. And yes, they are being unreasonable. You're even saying it yourself and then going "But that's what the internet is for" as if a massive amount of modern discussion isn't done via the internet and trying to go "Well it's okay to be mindlessly negative, it isn't real" is a weirdly narrowminded viewpoint and arguably an actively damaging one. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Dec 27, 2018 |
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Dec 27, 2018 04:07
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Ornamented Death posted:Butcher didn't clam up, he's been pretty open about why his work has slowed down. I know this because I've posted it several times in this thread. It's not his fault you entitled manchildren either can't be bothered to understand what the man has said on the subject or simply choose not to accept his reasons as valid. Where's he posted it because on looking at his twitter, he goes months without posting anything substantial.
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Dec 27, 2018 04:18
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I love the fact that almost all the actual expressed anger is "He doesn't owe you ANYTHING!!!! Yargh!" Of course he does. But, you're confusing the concept of whether he owes his readers something with some sort of legal concept of, "Can you sue and force performance on this contract? Ah, ha! Therefor he doesn't owe you anything!" Yeah, he does. If I tell someone, I'm doing X, and I'll try to get it done on Y, it may not be a contract, it may not be enforceable in court, but it doesn't mean I owe nothing because it's unenforceable. And nope, Butcher could quit tomorrow, tell no one about it and he'd only be legally liable to his publisher money for the advance he got. No one could sue, no one could force performance. Try to separate the concepts of legally enforceable from what the readers are saying here. And try to get over both your feelings of superiority and anger that you keep showing here. Like I said, the real price being paid is the lessening interest, and that's not much because if the book is great, he'll recapture most of his lost readers.
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Dec 27, 2018 04:19
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tithin posted:Where's he posted it because on looking at his twitter, he goes months without posting anything substantial. http://www.jim-butcher.com/faq/upcoming-works Jim Butcher posted:As of December 17th, 2018, the current draft of the novel is up to chapter 38. Progress!
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Dec 27, 2018 04:20
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Cool - is this his official site, or fan run? Not that I'm doubting the veracity of information or anything, just surprised none of that was getting put on his twitter which was where I was keeping an eye on.
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Dec 27, 2018 04:26
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tithin posted:Cool - is this his official site, or fan run? Not that I'm doubting the veracity of information or anything, just surprised none of that was getting put on his twitter which was where I was keeping an eye on. That's the official site. He rarely uses Twitter these days because of harassment issues.
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Dec 27, 2018 04:28
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-Fish- posted:That's the official site. He rarely uses Twitter these days because of harassment issues. I wonder why 
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Dec 27, 2018 04:46
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M_Gargantua posted:I wonder why I mean, I know what you’re implying, but it’s probably best to spell it out for the slow kids in this thread. He quit because of entitled shits demanding to know when the new book was coming out. Also, these same assholes demanding to know what’s going on in his private life that’s interfering with this book he somehow “owes” them.
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Dec 27, 2018 04:56
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Proteus Jones posted:I mean, I know what you’re implying, but it’s probably best to spell it out for the slow kids in this thread. Authors are no less workpeople than anyone else. They shouldn't be abused for not having finished their thing, but at the same time, they shouldn't get a pass because writing is hard e: Proteus Jones posted:I mean, I know what you’re implying, but it’s probably best to spell it out for the slow kids in this thread. Proteus Jones posted:God drat a lot of entitled cry-babies in this thread. Could you stop insulting people please? People want the next book, and you're being abrasive as poo poo about saying people don't deserve it tithin fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Dec 27, 2018 |
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Dec 27, 2018 05:01
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tithin posted:Authors are no less workpeople than anyone else. They shouldn't be abused for not having finished their thing, but at the same time, they shouldn't get a pass because writing is hard Being an author with nowhere to write for a number of years is probably a good reason to get a pass though. I know a few authors, less successful than Butcher by a longshot but authors all the same. Every single one is basically incapable of working without a dedicated space where they can isolate themselves and control their environment. He has a place like that now and is writing at what looks like a pretty steady pace.
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Dec 27, 2018 05:07
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tithin posted:Authors are no less workpeople than anyone else. They shouldn't be abused for not having finished their thing, but at the same time, they shouldn't get a pass because writing is hard Who is it they are getting a pass from? They owe you nothing. There is no pass to give. By claiming they “get a pass” you are absolutely lumped in the “entitled rear end in a top hat” group. Sorry I don’t have a pass for you.
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Dec 27, 2018 05:08
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Proteus Jones posted:Who is it they are getting a pass from? They owe you nothing. There is no pass to give. From you, to start with. Asking where the book is, doesn't entitlement make. If asking where the book is turns into sending abuse, then it's entitlement and can gently caress off.
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Dec 27, 2018 05:13
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tithin posted:From you, to start with. You're absolutely correct, one person asking an author about the next book is not harassment. We've reached a point where it's basically impossible for the man to use social media despite being pretty open about the status of the book due to people just bombarding him instead of taking 5 seconds to Google it, and without any tone of voice or body language to carry meaning referring to whether or not the author deserves a pass can be easily misinterpreted by the person on the other side of the screen. Especially in a discussion where some folks are already heated up over the subject, and some folks (not referring to you) are genuinely acting like entitled shits. Nobody's saying one person or another don't deserve information on where the book is, the issue is that information is the 2nd result on google if you search "where is peace talks", so addressing the author directly on the matter is not a beneficial course of action and only results in added stress on the author. The main point of contention is people lining up and saying Butcher owes them a book, rather than information on the status of the book.
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Dec 27, 2018 05:23
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-Fish- posted:You're absolutely correct, one person asking an author about the next book is not harassment. I'm disconnected enough from UF that I basically check into this thread about once every 6-12 months looking for new stuff to consume. I've already made it plain that I do sympathise with him, as to why it's not out, and yes the other dude does have a point that technically he doesn't owe us anything because we haven't paid for the book (laying aside that we technically can't purchase the book yet, so the basis for his point is somewhat moot), so why he can't (or refuses to) see the point that I and others are making that there's been an expectation set, that the author himself encouraged, for the book to have been out by now is somewhat farcical. No one deserves abuse for making something popular, and I'm not condoning it.
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Dec 27, 2018 05:30
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tithin posted:I'm disconnected enough from UF that I basically check into this thread about once every 6-12 months looking for new stuff to consume. You are absolutely correct on all points, I don't really feel like you and I disagree on this matter to any significant degree. There is an expectation that has been set by the author, and having an expectation unfulfilled sucks and is frustrating. I'm right there with you. That said, as fans our social contract with Jim Butcher basically amounts to "He will sell this book to us when it is ready to be sold". The book is being actively written, the author has been very communicative about the delays and has been providing reasonable estimates on the release date as circumstances change. As long as these things stay true Jim's holding up his end of the bargain, all the same I have no issue with folks being frustrated with those circumstances. I'm frustrated with the delays myself. This thread's the main source of info on UF books on this site, and the majority of folks who use it are folks who just dip in every few months to check for news on their favorite series because this is generally a very reliable news source. If everybody's talking, incorrectly, about Butcher not working on the book or what have you it's gonna get taken as fact by folks who have the reasonable expectation of accurate info in this thread. Operating on that false information, it's really reasonable to be even more frustrated. All I'm trying to do is clear up misinformation, and I apologize if that came across as a personal attack from me. poo poo's tough out there, I don't want anybody dealing with extra needless frustration from something that's supposed to be exciting and fun.
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Dec 27, 2018 06:28
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Yeah, gently caress Jim Butcher! Right in his rear end!
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Dec 27, 2018 06:45
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Jesus loving christ I'm sorry I opened my mouth on the topic. Jim Butcher owes me nothing. But a statement from the man himself saying "Sorry, here are the delays, here is a rough timetable, all of this is subject to change, I'll keep you updated" would go a long way to restoring the goodwill a lot of us have lost. He doesn't owe me that, either, but neither is he owed any faith in him at this point.
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Dec 27, 2018 06:51
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rndmnmbr posted:Jesus loving christ I'm sorry I opened my mouth on the topic. Not exactly what you asked for but hopefully close enough? Was last updated a little over a week ago. http://www.jim-butcher.com/faq/upcoming-works
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Dec 27, 2018 07:01
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A big part of finding success as a writer is sinking your hooks into people and getting them attached to your work, eager to buy the next pile of words with your name on it. I ain't surprised when that eagerness turns to impatience. At this point I just hope he actually wants to finish the series and enjoys writing it, and isn't on some literary death-march because he feels obligated to please his audience.
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Dec 27, 2018 07:39
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-Fish- posted:Not exactly what you asked for but hopefully close enough? Was last updated a little over a week ago. Okay, that mollifies me a lot. (dude next time go rent an office or something/fire the contractor and hire another one)
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Dec 27, 2018 07:53
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Dumb defenses of Dresden delays is how you got Trump.
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Dec 27, 2018 11:29
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