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Nehru the Damaja posted:I feel like there's some dissonance between the tenets and "this is the nature /fey/elf Paladin" mechanics. When I first started I wanted to make an Ancients Paladin that I think someone here shorthanded to "beer knight" but the mechanics would take some substantial reskinning to fit. To an Ancient Paladin Nature isn't something to be appreciated like a piece in a museum, it is something to be lived in, shared and enjoyed. And something you have to protect.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 00:07 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 03:42 |
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Xae posted:You have to play the character as someone who views nature not as something you take a pretty but somber stroll through, but as something that you have a Dionysian rite in and stay up all night drinking and dancing. Leave the "nature is so precious no one should touch it" routine to the Druids. Eat mushrooms, sabotage bulldozers, gently caress in the woods, bomb pipelines.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 00:13 |
Ryuujin posted:Why are those heroes not D&D Fighters? If you say it is because of divine blood, or other gifts beyond the norm. Then what about Wizards and other magic users? In the same stories where these legendary warriors come from pretty much all serious spellcasters have divine/demonic blood or some other gift that sets them above the norm. And D&D doesn't have any trouble giving spellcasters these abilities beyond the norm. Heck D&D Wizards put most magic users from myth, legend, and the suggested reading list to outright shame. Gandalf was basically an angel, and had low level Druidic magic at best. Merlin generally didn't pull off the kind of stuff D&D Wizards can do, and he was part demon and possibly aged backwards. That's my point. Look at what Hercules did (diverting a river) and look at what D&D fighters can do (hit things with a sword harder, but not enough to impress the necromancer and his endless legions). Hell, look at Beowulf - he is hardcore enough to swim underwater and fight demons in hand to hand combat, while also being a wise and educated man who can run a kingdom. A D&D fighter cannot do the latter, because he is busily lowering his intelligence to stay on par with the expected strength score. Your second paragraph pre-empts what I am going to say, which is that Mearls would have you believe that getting an extra sword stab per round is the equivalent of creating a duplicate of you that can throw out your entire spell complement. You could easily go through a bunch of myths and legends of warriors doing crazy poo poo, come up with a "spell list" (give it some nonmagical name, I don't care) and put that on par with a D&D mage. Mearls is not going to do that because he is literally advertising this edition as being for you to fix because he's too lazy to do his job and balance the game. Have fun!
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 00:26 |
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Skyl3lazer posted:No, people were complaining that their homerule isn't in the book, so actually playing by that rule didn't solve the problem. Please actually read the last 2-3 pages, its largely people spitballing new rules and ideas.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 00:39 |
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Hercules is a Barbarian btw
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 00:56 |
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:creating a duplicate of you that can throw out your entire spell complement. But you can't be two regular swordfighting dudes because reasons.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 00:58 |
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To risk throwing in my two cents into the fray, I have an idea for the "fighter" problem. That doesn't involve changing over to a totally different system! What about just giving Fighters an extra series of abilities: Heroic Feats. You get more of them as you level up, and they get stronger at higher levels. They recharge with each long rest. What it does, is that whenever you would have to make an ability check, or saving throw, of DC X or lower, you can spend a Heroic Feat to simply do it. You could have them get better as you level up, so at Levels 1-5, your Heroic Feat can grant instant success on something with DC 10 or lower, 6-10 DC 15 or lower, 11-15 DC 20 or lower, 16-18, DC 25, and 19-20, DC 35.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 02:44 |
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You can say that you can just fix fighters via house rules, but even if you've got the best fix in the world you're still going to have to apply more and more spackle every time you try to integrate some new product that assumes you're using the fighter as written. And god help you if you try to integrate your great ideas with another gaming group that has their own solutions to the problem.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 03:20 |
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Nehru the Damaja posted:The post about how the Fighter should be "the hero" still seems like the most reasonable change - - whoever it was that said a fighter should inspire and be a leader and an exemplar of their people. These are a few of the inspirational maneuvers from: https://www.dmsguild.com/product/230244/Norts-Universal-Martial-Maneuvers Tier 3 maneuver (Fighters level 9; Martials level 11; caster level 19): Norts Universal Martial Maneuvers posted:Warlord’s Recovery: Norts Universal Martial Maneuvers posted:Mojo: Tier 4 maneuver (Fighters level 13; Martials level 15; casters never): Norts Universal Martial Maneuvers posted:Legend: Legend mechanically works with the Renown optional rule on DMG p 22 and now Strongholds and Followers is out I'm adapting it to include attracting followers as per the tables there. That will lead to some rules offering squad leadership possibilities. The idea there is to dovetail with the warfare rules from S&F. DrSunshine posted:To risk throwing in my two cents into the fray, I have an idea for the "fighter" problem. That doesn't involve changing over to a totally different system! yes, that's what this is. clusterfuck fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Dec 28, 2018 |
# ? Dec 28, 2018 03:34 |
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So, S8 of Adventurer's League saw them bring in some real restrictions on Magic Item acquisition. And whiny manbabies flipped their everloving poo poo on it. I just learned today what the official DM advice is for the approximate number of Big Boy magic items (DMG Tables F-I) a player is expected to accrue from level 1 to 20 is, to stay sort of within the power guidelines of official adventures. 5: 2 uncommon, 1 each of rare, very rare, and legendary. Plus around 20 assorted minor items and consumables from Tables A-E. Now, how many items does AL effectively limit you to by comparison? 10: 1 uncommon, 2 rare, 6 very rare, 1 legendary. There's some extra points floating around and you can get more legendaries instead of very rares, but they are more expensive and it's more a matter of unlocking them by running the right adventures. D&D "fans" are the worst.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 03:39 |
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Tendales posted:You can say that you can just fix fighters via house rules, but even if you've got the best fix in the world you're still going to have to apply more and more spackle every time you try to integrate some new product that assumes you're using the fighter as written. And god help you if you try to integrate your great ideas with another gaming group that has their own solutions to the problem. this is why 3PP supplements, or even just written-down documents are particularly useful: the fixes are consistent and agreed-upon
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 03:57 |
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DrSunshine posted:To risk throwing in my two cents into the fray, I have an idea for the "fighter" problem. That doesn't involve changing over to a totally different system! Yep, that's a possible way to do it if you get more, better Heroic Feats as you level and you have a broader variety of things to do with them. As in, also expend them for extra damage, or to remove opponents, or to move real fast real far at no risk, or... But then you might as well just bite the bullet and call them
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 04:02 |
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I just picked finished going through Art & Arcana, and I dug all the old D&D art. I found though that I far more enjoyed the older art than the newer stuff. The new stuff is certainly beautiful and technically accomplished, but it's so staid and monotone and lifeless compared to the older images full of color and pop. Is there any consensus out there among D&D fans about new vs old art? Are people happy with what were getting now, or is there a groundswell hoping the D&D crew ups their art game?
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 04:15 |
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is gud. Has anyone tried any of the modules from this? I've been reading the Border Kingdoms campaign supplement and it's handy for a bit of hexcrawl / ideas for provincial settings. The modules seem promising but I'm not ready to commit $$ to any. clusterfuck fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Dec 28, 2018 |
# ? Dec 28, 2018 04:17 |
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:I just picked finished going through Art & Arcana, and I dug all the old D&D art. I found though that I far more enjoyed the older art than the newer stuff. The new stuff is certainly beautiful and technically accomplished, but it's so staid and monotone and lifeless compared to the older images full of color and pop. HOW loving DARE YOU??
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 04:21 |
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Is there any consensus out there among D&D fans about new vs old art? Are people happy with what were getting now, or is there a groundswell hoping the D&D crew ups their art game? More stuff like this: and this: Less/no stuff like this: Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Dec 28, 2018 |
# ? Dec 28, 2018 04:24 |
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AlphaDog posted:Yep, that's a possible way to do it if you get more, better Heroic Feats as you level and you have a broader variety of things to do with them. As in, also expend them for extra damage, or to remove opponents, or to move real fast real far at no risk, or... Well, the difference being that a spell is a specific sort of effect or thing, whereas you could apply a heroic feat whenever you'd use a bennie in some other RPG system. Basically "I'll use a bennie to leap onto the moving freight train!" versus having to perform a skill check against your dexterity.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 04:33 |
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DrSunshine posted:Well, the difference being that a spell is a specific sort of effect or thing, whereas you could apply a heroic feat whenever you'd use a bennie in some other RPG system. Basically "I'll use a bennie to leap onto the moving freight train!" versus having to perform a skill check against your dexterity. e: Came across as confrontational, sorry. If the thingoes are supposed to grant narrative agency (ie, they're "I can just do this thing" tokens) then they're functionally equivalent to spells, which are thingoes that grant narrative agency. If the fighter ones are less powerful than the wizard ones, then it's not really a solution. But if they're more powerful than the wizard ones, you've got different problems. I'd guess you weren't going for the latter though, so that means that the scope and/or power probably wants expanding. e2: To be clear, I think it's a good idea! I also think that being able to declare you pass a skill check or save x times per day isn't that great, and expanding the scope is getting into "spells, but more flexible" territory (which I guess is fine if that's what you want). Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Dec 28, 2018 |
# ? Dec 28, 2018 04:35 |
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Re Art: Old art was hit or miss. I remember there being plenty of cringe, even as a teenager reading the 2e book. Re Fighters: Check out the original Monster Hunter from UA for more ideas: https://dnd.wizards.com/sites/default/files/media/upload/articles/UA%20Gothic%20Characters.pdf It allowed the a Fighter to user Superiority Dice to improve saving throws or ability checks, in some situations.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 04:39 |
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Xae posted:Re Art: Yeah, hell yeah, plenty of lovely art back then that should never resurface. But I really like the b/w and line drawing vibe. Also I feel like it wouldn't hurt to at least nod at the dorky '80s aesthetic that's sadly lost with the new thing where nearly everything is epic at all times.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 04:44 |
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DrSunshine posted:To risk throwing in my two cents into the fray, I have an idea for the "fighter" problem. That doesn't involve changing over to a totally different system! So, sorta the opposite of this is something I've tossed around in my own head when thinking about how I'd remake the martial class(es). Namely, let their schtick be manipulating their own attributes, which is something Fighters and rogues could do in the high level abilities of AD&D2e. Let Fighters literally declare (on whatever timer you want) that their strength is actually ten points higher, for example. Wizards can still jerk off to their Knock spell that just auto-unlocks things, and their Invisibility spell that just auto-succeeds stealth...but that requires two spells, whereas a rogue just uses one ability to knock their whole dexterity score up several notches to be simply The Best at those skills. It also creates a cool narrative moment where things are too hard and strenuous for the fighter, at which point he reaches deep down inside and focuses hard and does, in fact, gain the strength of ten mortal men to accomplish the seemingly impossible. By not making it an auto-success you also sidestep the "isn't this just a spell?" problem, not that it'll matter to grogs, who will whine about literally anything that makes non-spellcasters interesting.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 04:52 |
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ProfessorCirno posted:So, sorta the opposite of this is something I've tossed around in my own head when thinking about how I'd remake the martial class(es). Namely, let their schtick be manipulating their own attributes, which is something Fighters and rogues could do in the high level abilities of AD&D2e. Let Fighters literally declare (on whatever timer you want) that their strength is actually ten points higher, for example. Wizards can still jerk off to their Knock spell that just auto-unlocks things, and their Invisibility spell that just auto-succeeds stealth...but that requires two spells, whereas a rogue just uses one ability to knock their whole dexterity score up several notches to be simply The Best at those skills. It also creates a cool narrative moment where things are too hard and strenuous for the fighter, at which point he reaches deep down inside and focuses hard and does, in fact, gain the strength of ten mortal men to accomplish the seemingly impossible. By not making it an auto-success you also sidestep the "isn't this just a spell?" problem, not that it'll matter to grogs, who will whine about literally anything that makes non-spellcasters interesting. Is that for one check? Like functionally equivalent to getting a +X or having the DC lowered by Y? Or does it persist for a time?
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 05:02 |
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AlphaDog posted:Yeah, hell yeah, plenty of lovely art back then that should never resurface. But I really like the b/w and line drawing vibe. I love the old rulebooks.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 05:08 |
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It's not very exciting if everyone beats the same non-combat challenges by expending a limited resource tailor-made for it. Different classes can and should be better at different challenges. Otherwise there's no point in having multiple classes at the same table at all. Magic, for example, is really good at controlling and manipulating people for short periods of time, with the caveat that they know you did it afterwards. It's good at getting past exploration challenges, but not good at "solving" them. You can cross a chasm with magic, but you can't build a bridge to get rid of the challenge altogether. Make martials good at permanent solutions to exploration and social challenges. Actually making friends instead of charming people or making a quid pro quo diplomacy check. Creating maps that anyone can follow, or bypassing traps so their allies can leave them in place but don't have to roll.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 05:12 |
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TOA endgame: I can't believe Acererak is gonna run away like that. Sure, he nearly killed all us and my simulacrum, but we did bloody him at least.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 05:13 |
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DrSunshine posted:I love the old rulebooks. As much as I love the mouse one, this is the stuff I meant:
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 05:37 |
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AlphaDog posted:
I would love this, especially the "always prepared" bit. Have X uses of "I have the thing I need"/day. gently caress you, shark repellant. X/day, I've seen this before. Gets to declare poo poo: "Oh, this guy? Yeah, kick sand in its eyes, they can't do poo poo after that." "Oh, these guys? If you want to trade, don't wear jewelry, it's gaudy to them." "Ha! The king? He's afraid of birds. Find a giant fuckoff monster bird, kill it, bring the head, the king will think you're amazing and do anything for you." I would play the hell out of that class. edit: I'm aware there are games that do this already, it'd be nice to see it here as well is all I'm saying. Gharbad the Weak fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Dec 28, 2018 |
# ? Dec 28, 2018 06:05 |
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For whatever reason this is my favorite new D&D peice, probably because it's not epic at all. Anti-Citizen fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Dec 28, 2018 |
# ? Dec 28, 2018 06:11 |
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Don't use tinypic.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 06:14 |
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Gharbad the Weak posted:I would play the hell out of that class. Right? I might try to do a proper write up int he next few weeks, the more I think about it the more I want to present it to one of my DMs. Maybe I'll have another look at my Commander archetype, come up with a Hero, and do a whole "warrior" class.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 06:15 |
ProfessorCirno posted:So, sorta the opposite of this is something I've tossed around in my own head when thinking about how I'd remake the martial class(es). Namely, let their schtick be manipulating their own attributes, which is something Fighters and rogues could do in the high level abilities of AD&D2e. Let Fighters literally declare (on whatever timer you want) that their strength is actually ten points higher, for example. Wizards can still jerk off to their Knock spell that just auto-unlocks things, and their Invisibility spell that just auto-succeeds stealth...but that requires two spells, whereas a rogue just uses one ability to knock their whole dexterity score up several notches to be simply The Best at those skills. It also creates a cool narrative moment where things are too hard and strenuous for the fighter, at which point he reaches deep down inside and focuses hard and does, in fact, gain the strength of ten mortal men to accomplish the seemingly impossible. By not making it an auto-success you also sidestep the "isn't this just a spell?" problem, not that it'll matter to grogs, who will whine about literally anything that makes non-spellcasters interesting. Just give them the auto-successes, honestly. Otherwise you still have the thing where the fighter can't make the DC 50 jump check but the mage casts fly, plus you can give them actual high level abilities too.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 07:31 |
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:I just picked finished going through Art & Arcana, and I dug all the old D&D art. I found though that I far more enjoyed the older art than the newer stuff. The new stuff is certainly beautiful and technically accomplished, but it's so staid and monotone and lifeless compared to the older images full of color and pop. Very old D&D art is very good. Contemporary art is almost uniformly good. Later 2nd ed and nearly all 3rd ed art is mostly bad.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 07:47 |
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:That's my point. Look at what Hercules did (diverting a river) and look at what D&D fighters can do (hit things with a sword harder, but not enough to impress the necromancer and his endless legions). Hell, look at Beowulf - he is hardcore enough to swim underwater and fight demons in hand to hand combat, while also being a wise and educated man who can run a kingdom. A D&D fighter cannot do the latter, because he is busily lowering his intelligence to stay on par with the expected strength score. Your second paragraph pre-empts what I am going to say, which is that Mearls would have you believe that getting an extra sword stab per round is the equivalent of creating a duplicate of you that can throw out your entire spell complement. Ah I misunderstood you it seems. But yeah I wish it was possible to do these kinds of things as a martial character. Speaking of. Over the years I have been banding around an idea, that started from someone's little homebrew on another forum, that I have posted at various points over the time. At some point last year I actually tried to expand the idea into a full class. There is still stuff that needs to be done on it, but it is all about being a Legendary Hero. Here it is if you are interested in seeing it.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 08:52 |
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Xae posted:You have to play the character as someone who views nature not as something you take a pretty but somber stroll through, but as something that you have a Dionysian rite in and stay up all night drinking and dancing. Leave the "nature is so precious no one should touch it" routine to the Druids. It's more that the mechanics are nature junk but the oath could be so much more. If your oath is to uphold the good things in life, why does that manifest in elfy tree hugger ways. I like the tenets and mechanics but neither seems to imply the other, to me.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 21:15 |
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Toshimo posted:So, S8 of Adventurer's League saw them bring in some real restrictions on Magic Item acquisition. And whiny manbabies flipped their everloving poo poo on it. The issue from what I understand is less the amount, and more how you get them. Instead of kicking down the Dragon's front door, giving him the worst bad day ever, and then getting to rifle through his hoard... "Congrats! Here's some loot points". Kind of deflates the whole thing, doesn't it?
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 21:40 |
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Arthil posted:The issue from what I understand is less the amount, and more how you get them. Instead of kicking down the Dragon's front door, giving him the worst bad day ever, and then getting to rifle through his hoard... "Congrats! Here's some loot points". Kind of deflates the whole thing, doesn't it? I mean... no? They're not loot points, they're whatever poo poo you hoovered out of the hoard. It just saves you a step of 'selling the poo poo the mod writers thought you might want and buying the stuff you actually want'. In terms of in world flavour that's exactly what it is.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 21:43 |
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Arthil posted:The issue from what I understand is less the amount, and more how you get them. Instead of kicking down the Dragon's front door, giving him the worst bad day ever, and then getting to rifle through his hoard... "Congrats! Here's some loot points". Kind of deflates the whole thing, doesn't it? That's a valid complaint. However, I have heard a poo poo to of munchkins whine about the reduction in items and how they can't make their superman builds like they used to.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 21:44 |
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Nehru the Damaja posted:It's more that the mechanics are nature junk but the oath could be so much more. If your oath is to uphold the good things in life, why does that manifest in elfy tree hugger ways. I like the tenets and mechanics but neither seems to imply the other, to me. I've rarely taken the tenets to mean much of anything, and with my own Goblin Paladin I actually reflavored them so while he is mechanically a Vengeance Paladin he is less "I AM THE NIGHT". The fluff surrounding mechanics means little to nothing, so long as your DM will roll with it.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 21:56 |
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My issue isn't "I want to play a nature paladin and these tenets don't match." It's "I want these tenets but the mechanics have nothing to do with it." Each deserves to be completed into its own subclass instead of being bolted together.
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# ? Dec 28, 2018 21:59 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 03:42 |
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I am huge nerd who wishes Quest for Glory's take on Paladins was used more often. Just trying to be a decent person saving the day, but you won't get hosed for stumbles in getting the job done. But because you can honestly bounce back from "You robbed an old lady's house? Your magic sword won't be so hot (Literally, the magic blue flame shrunk) until you get back on track with being a hero" That doesn't have the whole GM fiat punishment system allure for pointing at some list of behavior niches. That and for all the honest desire for some godly guidelines for their character, it can still end up an uphill climb to be on the same page as the GM even with the best intentions for following your divine checklist. Section Z fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Dec 28, 2018 |
# ? Dec 28, 2018 22:10 |