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LinYutang posted:Jewish domination of the slave trade is an anti-Semitic trope. watto is not a slave trader
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Dec 28, 2018 18:20
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Nebalebadingdong posted:watto is not a slave trader This is true, we see zero indication that he is a slave trader, unless he considers people to be junk.  He has bought Shmi and Anakin, but that's about it that we are aware of. Not sure if he owned people before that.
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Dec 28, 2018 18:26
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It's funny because I only ever saw Watto as a junkyard owner, so I immediately associated him with Fred Sanford. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JJz6zOkYrM
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Dec 28, 2018 18:29
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I said come in! posted:This is true, we see zero indication that he is a slave trader, unless he considers people to be junk. apparently he won them through gambling on pod races https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o4F_YvknQg the "jewish domination of the slave trade" thing is blaming Jews for running the European slave trade as a whole. its not relevant here
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Dec 28, 2018 18:35
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ruddiger posted:It's funny because I only ever saw Watto as a junkyard owner, so I immediately associated him with Fred Sanford. I never knew until this moment that I need a full John Williams orchestra version of the Sanford and Son theme. The closest I'll get is that one ep of 30 Rock
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Dec 28, 2018 18:42
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Nebalebadingdong posted:watto is not a slave trader The drat blue flying moth is misunderstood.
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Dec 28, 2018 18:52
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C-Bangin' it 
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And would like to add my quote is now a thread title. Great honor. Thank you. Seriously.
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Dec 28, 2018 19:00
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Colostomy Bag posted:The drat blue flying moth is misunderstood. hey now, dont misrepresent me Nebalebadingdong posted:If Watto got killed by a slave, that would be Extremely Good
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Dec 28, 2018 19:04
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sassassin posted:"His family/the estate owned the slaves, not him!" is a shameful technicality to fall back on. Luke is very young at the beginning of the film, and has possibly been a minor until very recently. He's chafing to leave, and of all the people in all the movies he's probably the one person, besides maybe his father, who treats droids with anything approaching due respect for personhood.
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Dec 28, 2018 19:25
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ruddiger posted:You're being willfully blind to the fact that a lot of the racial stereotypes being attributed to Watto are easily mapped to other minorities besides people of Jewish descent. Hell, someone just pointed out that Watto's stereotypes read as more Italian than Jewish and your defensive response is to say "no, he's really a reflection of Jewish stereotypes!" instead of taking a step back and realizing the fundamental truth of racism is the othering of ALL minorities with the same set of superficialities. I don't intend to suggest there isn't the same capacity for stereotyping other minorities in Watto, that's the opposite of my intention, that a multiplicity of readings are entirely possible from Watto's design, especially harmful ones. If I've suggested otherwise that's not right and I definitely retract it. For what it's worth, Watto is most obviously an Orientalist stereotype, being that owning slaves is not a stereotype of Jewish people, but definitely one for most racist depictions of Arabs, especially merchants. Consider the setting of Tatooine, it's Orientalism central
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Dec 28, 2018 21:03
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You could argue that Luke impressed R2 into serving on his X-Wing, but it's likely that R2 consented to it, since he's totally on board with the Rebellion.
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Dec 28, 2018 21:06
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R2 was a rebel agent voluntarily for years prior to joining up with Luke. 3PO was willing to give it all up for a life of programming vaporators on a farm but R2 insisted on completing the mission Bail gave him.
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Dec 28, 2018 21:08
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J_RBG posted:I don't intend to suggest there isn't the same capacity for stereotyping other minorities in Watto, that's the opposite of my intention, that a multiplicity of readings are entirely possible from Watto's design, especially harmful ones. If I've suggested otherwise that's not right and I definitely retract it. For what it's worth, Watto is most obviously an Orientalist stereotype, being that owning slaves is not a stereotype of Jewish people, but definitely one for most racist depictions of Arabs, especially merchants. Consider the setting of Tatooine, it's Orientalism central watto is literally every stereotype by this point I'm not dismissing the "Tatooine = Orientalism" thing but it demands some kind of evidence or example or something
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Dec 28, 2018 21:22
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Lucas is definitely piggy backing off of Lawrence of Arabia hard with the visual cues (and Jar Jar's species is a direct callback to Gunga Din), but I don't believe the intent is to make 1:1 racist stereotypes, but to use those preconceived notions as a juxtaposition to the rot that's permeated the "cultured" inner worlds the Jedi hail from. The Jedi think of themselves as heroes yet they show up in a foreign land, insult the native population, lie and cheat the local businesses, and ignore the plight of the slave literally begging them to help free his mother. If the prequels came out now, white racists would cry foul over "reverse racism" for daring to show the callousness of the first world imperialists in regards to the Jedi. ruddiger fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Dec 28, 2018 |
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Dec 28, 2018 21:34
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Watto is just broadly and non-specifically "ethnic".
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Dec 28, 2018 21:35
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You guys are still talking about Watto?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyJNEZPm-pQ
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Dec 28, 2018 21:35
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ruddiger posted:Lucas is definitely piggy backing off of Lawrence of Arabia hard with the visual cues (and Jar Jar's species is a direct callback to Gunga Din), but I don't believe the intent is to make 1:1 racist stereotypes, but to use those preconceived notions as a juxtaposition to the rot that's permeated the "cultured" inner worlds the Jedi hail from. There's the slave dancers and the domed desert buildings, too. But there's also native white farmers and in A New Hope a fat white dude yells out "We don't serve their kind", which recalls American segregation
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Dec 28, 2018 21:41
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So if everyone on Jakkooine is a slave/slaver, does that mean there's Krayt Dragon Slavers? What's their business model like?
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Dec 28, 2018 22:46
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General Dog posted:Watto is just broadly and non-specifically "ethnic". Right and so like Rud says, the effect is that by mixing all these “foreign” characteristics you ask how weird someone can be before you start finding them unpleasant to watch
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Dec 28, 2018 23:08
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Nebalebadingdong posted:There's the slave dancers and the domed desert buildings, too. But there's also native white farmers and in A New Hope a fat white dude yells out "We don't serve their kind", which recalls American segregation The plantation owners who buy slaves aren't natives.
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Dec 28, 2018 23:21
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Luke Skywalker is literally Ian Smith.
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Dec 28, 2018 23:27
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sassassin posted:The plantation owners who buy slaves aren't natives. True, native is not the right word here. They dont seem like settlers backed up by a colonizing state tho DeimosRising posted:Right and so like Rud says, the effect is that by mixing all these “foreign” characteristics you ask how weird someone can be before you start finding them unpleasant to watch who the hell is weirded out by watto
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Dec 28, 2018 23:28
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Watto's a digusting blue bug man.
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Dec 28, 2018 23:42
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The Lars household is rhodesian
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Dec 28, 2018 23:55
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Nebalebadingdong posted:who the hell is weirded out by watto I am.
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Dec 29, 2018 00:04
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Nebalebadingdong posted:the "jewish domination of the slave trade" thing is blaming Jews for running the European slave trade as a whole. its not relevant here Racist stereotyping rarely follows logical patterns, especially with how anti-Semitism has historically been expressed.
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Dec 29, 2018 00:07
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It really speaks to how rich the text is that we can spend a full three pages talking about Watto. Imagine spending three pages discussing Unkar Plut, or even Maz Kanata.
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Dec 29, 2018 00:08
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Unkar Plutt has a shed full of salvaged "World's Greatest Dad" mugs in the same lot where he has Han's old truck up on cinder blocks
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Dec 29, 2018 00:11
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Remember when Maz adjusted her glasses?
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Dec 29, 2018 00:13
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Actually I take it back, Maz actually is kind of interesting. It's pretty audacious to have a character that's basically "what if we had someone who was superficially similar to Yoda, but actually knew nothing and only ever gave bad advice"
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Dec 29, 2018 00:17
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General Dog posted:It really speaks to how rich the text is that we can spend a full three pages talking about Watto It’s more debating if noted dullard Lucas made Watto racist accidentally or on purpose
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Dec 29, 2018 00:17
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General Dog posted:Remember when Maz adjusted her glasses? Remember in the Last Jedi when Maz, friend of our heroes, hires the space Pinkertons to kill union workers?
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Dec 29, 2018 00:17
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General Dog posted:It really speaks to how rich the text is that we can spend a full three pages talking about Watto. Imagine spending three pages discussing Unkar Plut, or even Maz Kanata. Give it a few more years and I'm sure we will see contrarians asserting that the sequel trilogy is great art.
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Dec 29, 2018 00:18
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General Dog posted:Actually I take it back, Maz actually is kind of interesting. It's pretty audacious to have a character that's basically "what if we had someone who was superficially similar to Yoda, but actually knew nothing and only ever gave bad advice" Seems tautologous.
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Dec 29, 2018 00:23
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General Dog posted:Actually I take it back, Maz actually is kind of interesting. It's pretty audacious to have a character that's basically "what if we had someone who was superficially similar to Yoda, but actually knew nothing and only ever gave bad advice" Uhhhhh. Yoda gives a lot of terrible advice.
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Dec 29, 2018 00:29
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This Vader fan film fukken sucks
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Dec 29, 2018 00:32
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LinYutang posted:Racist stereotyping rarely follows logical patterns, especially with how anti-Semitism has historically been expressed. which characteristics are you referring to? the slave trade thing is not in the movie. no one can even agree on what stereotype he's supposed to be. apparently he's an Arab now
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Dec 29, 2018 00:36
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Yoda said things that were correct but not helpful. Letting go of attachments would absolutely have fixed the dilemmas of both Skywalkers as they understood them, and either prevented the Emperor from coming to power or resulted in his being overthrown. In that sense, both he and Maz had a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of the conflict. But Yoda had hubris and was punished for it and learned from it taught valuable lessons to his pupils despite everything - he is a dynamic and multifaceted character who is credible as a wise mentor. Maz, meanwhile, is just flatly wrong and nothing ever comes of that wrongness.
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Dec 29, 2018 00:36
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The first few minutes showed promise. Like a neat little fan exorcise in diverging the canon with some decent visuals for a fan film. But it kept going and going and everything looked and got lamer. Seriously, palps room is disgraceful. It’s so small, and he has Snoke’s chair for some reason.
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Dec 29, 2018 00:37
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Zoran posted:Remember in the Last Jedi when Maz, friend of our heroes, hires the space Pinkertons to kill union workers? This is exactly where TLJ lost me forever and why I pray for the failure of the franchise.
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Dec 29, 2018 00:40
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