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Lightning Knight posted:And then they would be a terrible person? I don’t see how this is relevant. You were making the point that no lawyer should step up and defend them and my point is lovely people with lovely views become lawyers too.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:25
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Y’all saying that somebody you don’t like only deserves a public defender have obviously never had the great misfortune of experiencing our criminal justice system as a defendant. Punch nazis all drat day. Fix our bullshit criminal justice system. Until you fix it, everyone deserves competent representation. Punch the fucker outside of the courtroom for being a nazi.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:25
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jase1 posted:You were making the point that no lawyer should step up and defend them and my point is lovely people with lovely views become lawyers too. I mean ok but I’m saying “no lawyer should agree to defend them voluntarily, or they are a lovely person.” Nazis are by definition lovely people so of course a Nazi lawyer would be lovely.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:26
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Tuxedo Gin posted:Y’all saying that somebody you don’t like only deserves a public defender have obviously never had the great misfortune of experiencing our criminal justice system as a defendant. This argument completely ignores the agency of the lawyer who accepts that contract though. Do you think lawyers accept every client that walks through their door out of their moral obligation to defend people?
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Dec 29, 2018 19:27
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As a palate cleanser, enjoy two people who can't read being VERY sure that it's everyone else who is wrong when they invoke the USPOL of 50 years ago: https://twitter.com/MaxKennerly/status/1078777955562729472 https://twitter.com/RonRosenbaum1/status/1079006088522067969
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Dec 29, 2018 19:27
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Mendrian posted:The difference is that communist boogiemen are not currently out to curtail the rights of others. We're in the middle of a thread where leftists are explaining why certain types of people should have their rights curtailed. So yes, communists absolutely did, and still do, advocate for curtailing certain types of rights. Or they deny that those rights should exist in the first place. You couldn't make a more disingenuous and ignorant argument if you tried. Its funny to watch this clusterfuck because it is a microcosm of why leftists states inevitably end up as police states. The State declares that "certain" people don't have rights and that list of people keeps growing until no one has any rights. Rights either apply to everyone or no one.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:27
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Radish posted:If the argument is "a court appointed attorney is tantamount to not getting representation" what the hell does that say about the large amount of people that have to get that purely because they can't afford a lawyer? Isn't the apparent fact that people aren't able to get adequate legal representation based on their economic status a much bigger deal that once again defending the navel gazing idea that we have to defend nazis lest we become them? Let me refer you to this post I made a little while back in the SCOTUS thread: Hieronymous Alloy posted:And a harmful fiction, because it lends legitimacy to the court system when it does illegitimate and highly political things (e.g., ratifying Trump's muslim ban). https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3590854&pagenumber=509#post490911057 On the specific issue of public defenders, most public defenders would (if you could them to speak frankly) agree with the statement that having a public defender represent you is not adequate. Most public defenders are horribly overworked and underpaid and almost definitionally do not have enough time to focus on your case to the extent it deserves. It's basically a misnomer to call our legal system a "justice" system at all. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Dec 29, 2018 |
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Dec 29, 2018 19:27
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To the extent that justice happens in our legal system, it's often more to the credit of the best efforts of the people working within that system; despite the system not because of it.
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If a lawyer wants to defend a Nazi for money that is his or her decision and no one is advocating that being illegal. The thing is no one else is bound to respect that or treat it like they are protecting some precious value.Hieronymous Alloy posted:Let me refer you to this post I made a little while back in the SCOTUS thread: Yeah I absolutely agree that a public defender is typically overworked and a client isn't getting the much more laser focused representation a more expensive personal lawyer would be able to provide. I agree this should be something we work to make better on a societal level in general instead of worrying about nazis not getting the best defense. It's also a problem because our justice system is designed to get as many poor people integrated into it which is more work per public defender which is another issue needing to be addressed. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Dec 29, 2018 |
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Dec 29, 2018 19:29
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Koalas Massacre posted:Black speech is already limited by virtue of our society. There's a reason code switching exists. BLM activists are already labeled Black Identity Extremists for saying that racism is real and bad. Out of curiosity, are you saying that code switching is the product of a racist society? It's my understanding that it is a more widespread aspect of human behavior that occurs regardless of cultural context.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:31
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Xae posted:We're in the middle of a thread where leftists are explaining why certain types of people should have their rights curtailed. Okay. So which rights, specifically, are thread leftists asking to curtail? * Nobody is advocating for Randazza to not have a lawyer, they're just saying that accepting him as a client carries certain connotations. * Despite people crawling out of the woodwork to defend free speech the only thing people are advocating for is the enforcement of existing hate speech law. I see a lot of dancing around the issues but that's all I'm seeing? Which is actually the status quo?
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Dec 29, 2018 19:33
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Popehat has his uses. He gets guillotined last.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:33
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Radish posted:If a lawyer wants to defend a Nazi for money that is his or her decision and no one is advocating that being illegal. The thing is no one else is bound to respect that or treat it like they are protecting some precious value.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:33
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Besesoth posted:As a palate cleanser, enjoy two people who can't read being VERY sure that it's everyone else who is wrong when they invoke the USPOL of 50 years ago: doesn't the GOP ghouls try to push that it was premeditated murder or some poo poo. like yeah, he let her loving die and being a broken rich rear end in a top hat, probably didn't care that she died.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:34
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There Bias Two posted:Out of curiosity, are you saying that code switching is the product of a racist society? It's my understanding that it is a more widespread aspect of human behavior that occurs regardless of cultural context. Complete this sentence: “The term ‘code switching’ was invented specifically to describe ____________________.”
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Dec 29, 2018 19:34
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Radish posted:If a lawyer wants to defend a Nazi for money that is his or her decision and no one is advocating that being illegal. The thing is no one else is bound to respect that or treat it like they are protecting some precious value. This is a good post and I agree with it entirely.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:34
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1079082188665171971 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1079083702943211520 gently caress off, Donny.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:35
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Xae posted:We're in the middle of a thread where leftists are explaining why certain types of people should have their rights curtailed. the rights of most people are already curtailed.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:35
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There Bias Two posted:Out of curiosity, are you saying that code switching is the product of a racist society? It's my understanding that it is a more widespread aspect of human behavior that occurs regardless of cultural context. The gist of it is that appearing too black in a lot of contexts is a great way to get arrested or shot, so code switching is a survival tool and not just a result of basic social chameleon instincts.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:35
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Social Studies 3rd Period posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1079082188665171971 every time you think this animal has bottom, he digs another mile.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:35
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if we had actual free speech people would be able to say what was fully justified in response to that.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:36
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Democrats face electoral annihilation in the next election for ignoring the plague of legal immigration!
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Dec 29, 2018 19:37
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1079083702943211520
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Dec 29, 2018 19:38
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There Bias Two posted:Out of curiosity, are you saying that code switching is the product of a racist society? It's my understanding that it is a more widespread aspect of human behavior that occurs regardless of cultural context. Put a little thought into what you are asking. Like there was literally a great movie that came out this year about a black sales person who climbs up the corporate ladder thanks to his "white voice". Sorry To Bother You, and there is actually a LOT more to that movie but lol I mean like 90% of the time you can point to some lovely societal/historical thing in the United States and the answer is racism.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:38
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Social Studies 3rd Period posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1079082188665171971 Someone told him that dead kids at the border makes him look bad.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:38
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Dapper_Swindler posted:doesn't the GOP ghouls try to push that it was premeditated murder or some poo poo. like yeah, he let her loving die and being a broken rich rear end in a top hat, probably didn't care that she died. The Kennedys actually all loving universally sucked (especially their loving shitheel of a father), besides Bobby who seems like their might have been a decent person underneath maybe The End
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Dec 29, 2018 19:38
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TulliusCicero posted:The Kennedys actually all loving universally sucked (especially their loving shitheel of a father), besides Bobby who seems like their might have been a decent person underneath maybe Take a look at my JFK writeup in the Presidents' thread; Bobby was kind of a dick too.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:39
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Mendrian posted:Okay. Lightning Knight posted:He deserves legal representation in the form of a court appointed defense attorney who does the bare minimum to establish competent defense and avoid censure and nothing more. Lightning Knight posted:No, it is not. But I am in fact arguing that fascists don’t deserve the same treatment as everyone else, yes. Next time do your own homework.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:39
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I'm guessing that the father said no such thing?
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Dec 29, 2018 19:39
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TulliusCicero posted:The Kennedys actually all loving universally sucked (especially their loving shitheel of a father), besides Bobby who seems like their might have been a decent person underneath maybe i sorta like JFK because at least he believed in diplomacy and empathy sorta. too bad about getting us deeper in vietnam and being a sexpest.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:40
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Xae posted:Everyone has the right to a "zealous" defense. Not the bare minimum to not get censured. This is because otherwise you end up with situation like police states have where the defense lawyer does nothing to assist the defendant. Because if he does try and defend the person he'll end up strung up along side him. “Not treating Nazis better than most of the population will lead to a leftist police state” - A Take. Most people already don’t get a “zealous” defense. A Nazi getting a mediocre defense is actually par for the system.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:41
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Xae posted:Everyone has the right to a "zealous" defense. Not the bare minimum to not get censured. This is because otherwise you end up with situation like police states have where the defense lawyer does nothing to assist the defendant. This already happens but like most things no one gives a gently caress when it happens to black people but suddenly now that it theoretically might happen to a Nazi people are happy to come out the woodwork to say how our justice system can be bad.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:43
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Lightning Knight posted:“Not treating Nazis better than most of the population will lead to a leftist police state” - A Take. Koalas Massacre posted:This already happens but like most things no one gives a gently caress when it happens to black people but suddenly now that it theoretically might happen to a Nazi people are happy to come out the woodwork to say how our justice system can be bad. Whataboutism - A mods tale. Lightning Knight, you want an authoritarian police state where only "certain people" have rights. At least own up to it. No one here has said the US justice system is without fault. But actively seeking to deny people rights is a terrible idea. Xae fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Dec 29, 2018 |
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Dec 29, 2018 19:45
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i sorta like JFK because at least he believed in diplomacy and empathy sorta. too bad about getting us deeper in vietnam and being a sexpest. There was also the part where he had the president of South Vietnam whacked for not being committed enough to the cause.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:46
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Katt posted:There was also the part where he had the president of South Vietnam whacked for not being committed enough to the cause. ehh. that was more because diem was catholic nutter who was fine oppressing the poo poo out of the his own people and killings and poo poo and stopping reunification talks was basically making South vietnam his own little fiefdom for him and his family. it was more a military coup with the CIA promising to look the other way, out of all the coups/assassinations we helped with. diem was probably one of the few who actually deserved what he got. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Dec 29, 2018 |
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Dec 29, 2018 19:49
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Lightning Knight posted:“Not treating Nazis better than most of the population will lead to a leftist police state” - A Take. Its also funny that the Nazi usually lives to get their mediocre to better than should be defense when the black person gets shot before they even get their hands up.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:49
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you guys are all missing the joke so hard. dude's last name is not Kennedy, take another look.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:49
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Koalas Massacre posted:This already happens but like most things no one gives a gently caress when it happens to black people but suddenly now that it theoretically might happen to a Nazi people are happy to come out the woodwork to say how our justice system can be bad. Arguing for equal treatment of all people is not the same as saying you don’t care about black people getting screwed by the justice system. I’m well aware of that and take issue with that as well. Taking away the rights of a certain person because they have lovely views will ultimately lead to abuse of that power and in turn be used to take away the rights of poor people and minorities.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:50
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Whataboutism was invented by lawyers you brokebrain.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:50
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Bottom Liner posted:you guys are all missing the joke so hard. dude's last name is not Kennedy, take another look. Ted Kennedy’s death was a celebrated event in many many thousands of Americans homes. Do not take that from them.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:51
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Xae posted:Whataboutism - A mods tale. I have argued that lawyers should treat Nazis differently, not the law as such. I stand by that. gently caress Nazis. Acting as if this is some terrible authoritarian regime I want to impose, as opposed to saying mean things online about lawyers who willingly defend Nazis, is hilarious.
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Dec 29, 2018 19:52
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