|
Pick posted:god. imagine being known as "molested spider-man". like that's your "thing". You know, I think there's a a gag in the Spider-verse event where one Peter is like "weird there's so many asian Spider-Men" and quickly shuts up because he doesn't want to be the racist Spider-Man.
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2018 21:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 10:14 |
|
|
Corrosion posted:In terms of consideration, does it matter to distinguish between adaptation and homage with Spider-Verse? Specifically in adaptation the two continuities in question lose their "gritty" qualities and become comic relief. This is part of the movie's larger project of sanitizing the core of the Spider-Man franchise, which is that being Spider-Man is absolutely miserable. "Who am I? You sure you want to know? The story of my life is not for the faint of heart. If somebody told you it was a happy tale, if somebody said I was just your average guy, not a care in the world... somebody lied."
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2018 22:02
|
|
|
I am alternating between catching up with the thread and checking for new replies and I am extremely displeased to learn that BOTL is still posting on page 16.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2018 22:10
|
|
|
I have defeated time and am simultaneously posting on the present page and on page thirty.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2018 22:16
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:I have defeated time and am simultaneously posting on the present page and on page thirty. Bold of you to assume there will be a page 30
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2018 22:23
|
|
|
McCloud posted:Bold of you to assume there will be a page 30 It's a dark alternate timeline
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2018 22:24
|
|
|
ConfusedUs posted:There's a degree of that even in the 2d showings. They layered on a lot of different ways to show depth in this movie: blurred/split lines and an aggressive level-of-detail fade were just a couple of them. CelticPredator posted:It was supposed to look like that Okay, now I'm much less sure than I was before that my theater made a mistake. Apparently a few pages back some other people had the same problem. If I'd known it was intentional going in, it wouldn't have bothered me nearly as much - I think it's a bad artistic choice in a movie full of good artistic choices, but it still wasn't that big of a deal, it just gave me anxiety about the theater making a mistake. I'm honestly still not completely convinced that the theater didn't make a mistake, though - I've seen a few clips of the movie now for comparisons' sake, and they didn't look nearly as fucky as I remember - but I guess that could just be because I'm looking at it on a smaller screen now, or because I'm not a regular coffee drinker and I'd just drank a coffee when I went into the movie (but I don't remember the extreme splitting effect applying to any of the trailers beforehand? weird). Okay, no, I just watched a few more clips, and now I'm pretty sure that it was fully intentional - there's one specific object where I remember exactly how it was split (the sign at 1:45 in this clip), and it's split exactly how I remember it. Still, that's just a weird artistic choice - I feel like it'd work better in a universe where Avatar never happened and 3D movies weren't a thing. Then it'd blend in more with the other ways the movie stylizes things, but that's not really possible as-is. This clip makes it even more obvious that I saw the movie as it was intended - I distinctly remember, say, the clock in the background being split, and there are all kinds of other nearby things that are split the same way. I'm looking forward to seeing the sequel (assuming that it happens, which seems pretty safe given all the acclaim this one's getting but it's not exactly making Marvel money), but on some level it's comforting to know that Sony can still be reliably expected to gently caress up something really badly about all of their movies. Seriously, though, the storytelling in this was great; I'm a sucker for good use of parallel universes in fiction (IE, when it's used for thematic/character stuff instead of just a plot device), and this is one of the best examples I've seen. I suppose that the splitting visual effect may have been seen as accentuating that, and that's why they were so attached to it? But I don't mean to keep going back to that point. I think this may be the best superhero film I've ever seen, and I've never really been into DC or Marvel (I've seen five Marvel films including this one and Big Hero 6, and I slept through most of the Avengers; I haven't seen any DC films unless you count some straight-to-video trash made by mashing some Superman cartoon episodes together that I saw when I was extremely young and incredibly bored).
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2018 23:00
|
|
|
Corrosion posted:Because Aaron and Jeff represent social choices. "Sometimes people are evil" is a willfully ignorant response to that, especially given that the take away from Prowler is "If you're bad in a socially accepted way, you'll die because a white person will shoot you so don't get out of line." Prowler is clearly adept with technology, and he's the only one who can see Miles which is the idea that he can see himself in Miles. Why do we need to know what informs this? Because some people still say "Sometimes people are just like bad and stuff." I think Prowler is potentially interesting, but that's why I really just chose to say I agree with the readings made about the Spider-Verse engulfing Miles as a character. Aaron's path to becoming a criminal gets as much screentime as Jeff's path to becoming a cop, which is to say none. I can see the argument that not exploring the choices that led to Aaron becoming Prowler is doing a disservice to the character and the idea of morality and criminality in general, but the movie is already so overstuffed that I can see why any potential ideas to explore that would have fallen to the wayside early on. Especially with how powerful the twist of Uncle Aaron being Prowler is both from a story perspective and in reinforcing Miles' origin as being a fractured version of the classic Spider-Man mythology, dedicating some of the first act to showing that Aaron may be a Bad Guy but he isn't a bad guy is about the most you could do without giving up something precious to buy something cheap. And really considering how much hand-wringing there was about Spider-Man's collaboration with and support of the cops in the big PS4 Spider-man game that came out earlier this year the fact that Spider-Verse has been mercifully free of thinkpieces about law enforcement in comic book fiction not being comparable to the real thing is a testament to the movie's quality. If the movie were any less dripping with artistry I could see people having a field day with that and "if you're attracted to a girl grab her and say 'hey' so she knows you like her" as ways of attacking it
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 00:27
|
|
|
Guy Mann posted:Aaron's path to becoming a criminal gets as much screentime as Jeff's path to becoming a cop, which is to say none. Good one/Bad one dynamics here are making it clear you didn't read the entirety of what I said. The point of what I was saying wasn't "But what about Aaron, oh look I totally didn't consider Jeff." I was agreeing that I think the film has ideas that are stretched thin or weakened. Specifically, I'd say it really is because of the fact it's a crossover. Of course Jefferson being a cop gets equally as much screen time, but I don't really think becoming a cop is particularly hard to understand. That's something that does get a lot of mileage out of implicit meaning. Being a cop is instantaneous security in terms of finances, societal acceptance. That's an easy choice to make, it'd be like if you said Jefferson was a soldier. If you choose to be a criminal, there could be a variety of reasons and not all of those reasons are necessarily charitable. But a majority of soldiers or cops, regardless of their personal stories, are looking for financial security and for criminals there's an element of risk that I think has a lot of potential and doesn't speak for itself. I can ask a simple question here: Why was Jefferson a cop? And the answers wouldn't be a stretch. Conversely, if I ask "Why was Aaron a villain?" That one would require a lot of handwaving, like we're talking about something that is (superficially) formal to super hero comics. Man of Steel shows us that Zod is a fascist soldier, it shows us the allure of what he believes in and stands for. You can suggest things about or communicate this stuff without necessarily talking about it at length, but all Prowler is is Miles if he doesn't make what the film shows is the right decision. I'm just saying that arriving at the point is pretty hollow, like no poo poo hurting others and stealing from them is messed up but then why did Aaron choose that life and what in Miles' life other than the Spider-Verse makes that a conceit that Aaron has to die for? It reads well when it's stated to be stock franchise/cross over stuff.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 00:41
|
|
|
21 Muns posted:on some level it's comforting to know that Sony can still be reliably expected to gently caress up something really badly about all of their movies. Just wanted to chip in to say that I thought what you perceived as a "gently caress up" was one of my favourite things about the movie. The fact that they managed to make the perception of depth on screen into something that fits with their comicbook aesthetic is insanely cool.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 01:26
|
|
|
Do we even know that Aaron made the Prowler suit himself? I only remember seeing him wearing and fighting in the suit, for all we know he could have just been some bodyguard or security worker or mercenary who was given the suit by Kingpin as he started doing more dangerous and illegal wetwork stuff for him and gained his confidence. It would also explain why Kingpin was willing to kill him for a moment's hesitation when he puts up with all kinds of poo poo from Liv on account of her being an actual genius scientist and inventor whose work he has to rely on.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 01:38
|
|
|
Guy Mann posted:Do we even know that Aaron made the Prowler suit himself? I only remember seeing him wearing and fighting in the suit, for all we know he could have just been some bodyguard or security worker or mercenary who was given the suit by Kingpin as he started doing more dangerous and illegal wetwork stuff for him and gained his confidence. It would also explain why Kingpin was willing to kill him for a moment's hesitation when he puts up with all kinds of poo poo from Liv on account of her being an actual genius scientist and inventor whose work he has to rely on. Well that raises the questions I was asking earlier. But I know for certain that the movie about Prowler that would more explicitly answer that doesn't exist, so I just focus on the one I can watch. To that end, Liv was working on the Dimensional Gate/Device for Kingpin, so saying that Aaron died because he wasn't an inventor is dubious. Aaron could or could not have been a scientist or inventor. The reason Liv knows she's alive is because Kingpin wants something very specific from her. If we're using that as a qualifier, then it's because Aaron was getting in the way of that that Kingpin shoots him. Aaron can still be a creator or scientist, since it so happens that that doesn't preclude a specialty in physics. But all this shows is that there's still questions to ask about Aaron for some, I'm willing to say that he didn't just ask Kingpin for technology alone. Either way, he dies and the film focuses on the multiverse/crossover scenario because it has to resolve the beats of Miles' origin.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 02:05
|
|
|
Corrosion posted:Because Aaron and Jeff represent social choices. "Sometimes people are evil" is a willfully ignorant response to that, especially given that the take away from Prowler is "If you're bad in a socially accepted way, you'll die because a white person will shoot you so don't get out of line." We know why Uncle Aaron became Prowler. The film gives us all the evidence we need: 1) Being Prowler pays incredibly well (again, check out Aaron's sweet pad and banging soundsystem) 2) Aaron is very, VERY good at being Prowler and he relishes the chance to wield power and show his skills (the line of dialogue where he's like "I always get my man" and smiles gleefully) 3) The entire Davis family including Miles, his dad, and Aaron all have a wild lawless streak (they all love tagging, which is illegal) 4) Aaron was able to ignore or justify the social consequences of being Prowler until they hit close to home, when he just couldn't anymore. Those are the exact same reasons why people become drug dealers or advertising executives or anything "evil" really. I don't know why we need a five minute montage of Aaron working for Fisk as a low-level lackey and then slowly rising up through the ranks or w/e. None of that would change anything about his character. friendly 2 da void fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Dec 30, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 02:13
|
|
|
friendly 2 da void posted:We know why Uncle Aaron became Prowler. The film gives us all the evidence we need: Yeah you don't need it "spelled out", it makes sense in its universe.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 02:16
|
|
|
friendly 2 da void posted:We know why Uncle Aaron became Prowler. The film gives us all the evidence we need: Saying he's "Very good at being the Prowler" isn't a motivation. Being good at something is often incidental to a different type of need, and again that amounts to more of that handwaving. "Oh yeah that makes sense." Why was Aaron so ready to be the Prowler? Why that vs an honest life? You're gonna tell me that people choose crime cause they like graffiti? That's a bad look.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 02:19
|
|
|
Corrosion posted:Saying he's "Very good at being the Prowler" isn't a motivation. Being good at something is often incidental to a different type of need, and again that amounts to more of that handwaving. "Oh yeah that makes sense." I feel like you are being kinda willfully dense so you can make a political point? Being "good at something" is one of the most universal motivations for undertaking a vocation on this planet. Millions of people on earth choose to work damaging and evil jobs because those jobs pay well, they're good at them, wielding power is fun, and they can ignore the social consequences. Aaron is one of those people and Prowler is one of those damaging jobs. And guess what? You could say the EXACT same things about Miles' cop dad, because they are two sides of the same Miles-shaped coin  Great movie.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 02:26
|
|
|
Guy Mann posted:Do we even know that Aaron made the Prowler suit himself? I only remember seeing him wearing and fighting in the suit, for all we know he could have just been some bodyguard or security worker or mercenary who was given the suit by Kingpin as he started doing more dangerous and illegal wetwork stuff for him and gained his confidence. It would also explain why Kingpin was willing to kill him for a moment's hesitation when he puts up with all kinds of poo poo from Liv on account of her being an actual genius scientist and inventor whose work he has to rely on. He mentions that he went down to the area in the subway on an engineering job, and while that was probably a cover, it's probably a good bet that he does have an engineering background of some kind.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 02:30
|
|
|
loving you dumb kindsa fuckers are why we keep getting origin stories and prequels. jesus christ you guys gently caress stories right in the mouth with the cocks of your stupidity.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 02:31
|
|
|
how can I BELIEVE eisenhower became president if I didn't SEE it beginning when he was in 2nd grade. you expect me to believe that this "einsenhower" guy is president? likely loving story. bitch.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 02:32
|
|
|
Is Aaron explicitly said to be an engineer? I thought he said that he had knew about the tagging location because he was an engineer working there. I thought that suggested that Aaron made the Prowler costume and possibly worked on the collider. Edit: gently caress, missed one post. But anyway, I personally really like that decision. It makes it so Aaron isn't a racist stereotype of the generic drug dealing bad uncle, but an intelligent guy who is using his skills for shady poo poo. Hiro Protagonist fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Dec 30, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 02:52
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:He mentions that he went down to the area in the subway on an engineering job, and while that was probably a cover, it's probably a good bet that he does have an engineering background of some kind. I thought "engineering job" was just a euphemism for his Prowler work guarding/overseeing the work around the particle accelerator since that tagging spot being near the particle accelerator is exactly why the spider was there in the first place and why when Miles came back to it later he was within earshot of Prowler fighting off Spider-Man when he showed up to turn the machine off.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 03:07
|
|
|
Guy Mann posted:I thought "engineering job" was just a euphemism for his Prowler work guarding/overseeing the work around the particle accelerator since that tagging spot being near the particle accelerator is exactly why the spider was there in the first place and why when Miles came back to it later he was within earshot of Prowler fighting off Spider-Man when he showed up to turn the machine off.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 03:09
|
|
|
Tony Soprano tells his family he works in sanitation but we see him attacking and killing people for organized crime and not actually doing any sanitation work, does this mean he is some sort of supervillain who got powers from radioactive trash or some sort of evil trash golem? I really Into the Sopranos-Verse 2 dedicates some time to his origin story so this blunder can be corrected.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 03:14
|
|
|
friendly 2 da void posted:Millions of people on earth choose to work damaging and evil jobs because those jobs pay well, they're good at them, wielding power is fun, and they can ignore the social consequences. The world often doesn't let people just be good at something. There are a variety of gatekeeping mechanisms, I'm just not cynical enough to think that Aaron was necessarily just lazy. And that may just be stupid on my part, but the point wasn't really about getting Extended Universe Aaron, it was that like other people pointed out, certain parts of the narrative suffer because of having to allow for the crossover. Like, saying that someone is motivated by being good at something is missing the point of why I don't accept that as a character motivation. Especially for someone who loving gets shot for it, lol. Society and life doesn't guarantee a person will ever even get to do what they want, how they want it. What you're suggesting is that Aaron took the path of least resistance, and in the case of what the film shows... yeah, you know what, I think it's a pretty cynical way to depict someone choosing to be a criminal, all just to kill him when he makes the right choice but needs to be punished for it. Many people who join the military or police force do, understandably, join because it gives them power... but that type of work attracts and targets the poor or disenfranchised for a reason. Some people choose that work because they have this notion that they can just go to school when they're done. And really, as far as "wielding power" over others goes your explanation doesn't even equally apply to Jefferson because he prides himself on not abusing his power, but the one person he acts out on is his son. But not just turning on the siren is one of the first things he tells Miles. The truth of course is that I enjoyed the film, and I don't have to hate it to talk about what I think it means. It's good to get a refresher about Aaron mentioning having an Engineering job. He lies about it to Miles because he knows it's not a good look and he cares about how Miles sees him. Regardless, many people don't get to do poo poo they love or are good at for a variety of reasons, other than for the narrative requirements of the film I don't really accept that I see anything good for why Aaron chose crime for the beats it chose. I think this film glosses over or communicates all this rather hurriedly in favor of the multiverse angle and I think that's just not as interesting. At the very least I refuse to see a hypothetical situation as just someone being their worst "just cause like y'know, people do that."
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 03:15
|
|
|
Into the Spider-Verse: SA viewers:  did they forget to include the origin story??
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 03:17
|
|
|
Guy Mann posted:Tony Soprano tells his family he works in sanitation but we see him attacking and killing people for organized crime and not actually doing any sanitation work, does this mean he is some sort of supervillain who got powers from radioactive trash or some sort of evil trash golem? I really Into the Sopranos-Verse 2 dedicates some time to his origin story so this blunder can be corrected.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 03:29
|
|
|
I do agree that it's entirely unnecessary to know why Aaron is the Prowler and Jeff's a cop. Neither would change anything or add significantly more dimension to their characters than what is already present, and additional details would have distracted from Miles' story.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 03:33
|
|
|
Pick posted:Into the Spider-Verse: I don't remember the Christmas tree in the movie
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 03:36
|
|
|
When the collider turns on, random poo poo happens, like Christmas trees in showers
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 03:39
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:I do agree that it's entirely unnecessary to know why Aaron is the Prowler and Jeff's a cop. Neither would change anything or add significantly more dimension to their characters than what is already present, and additional details would have distracted from Miles' story. What bothers people is that I'm saying I think a film about Miles in this capacity would have been better because I think those characters are interesting on their own merits and that those reasons don't necessarily line up with a crossover. I wasn't arguing that we can't follow what Aaron and Jeff represent, I'm saying that that dynamic itself could hold up a movie and instead it's just sort of played for strategic necessity and glosses over things that "good one/bad one" even implies. But the point isn't about HAVING this nonexistent film, it's that I think there's a lot of meaning to presenting Miles with those choices and it gets sacked by the crossover.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 03:44
|
|
|
Pick posted:Into the Spider-Verse: Well it was fairly evident that Peter B. uses the shower/tub as a safe space for emotional healing (See: sadness montage). Likely it's a place he views as a home separate from the outside world where he feels free to feel vulnerable due to it's shelter. In order to feel 'normal' and 'functioning' in a time of emotional crisis, of course he would irrationally recreate traditions in the one place he feels safe. As for the cat, it's a comics reference to his on-again-off-again romance with Catwoman-ripoff, Black Cat. Hopefully this thread will be picked up on in the sequel, if only due to it's implications.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 03:50
|
|
|
SomeJazzyRat posted:Well it was fairly evident that Peter B. uses the shower/tub as a safe space for emotional healing (See: sadness montage). Likely it's a place he views as a home separate from the outside world where he feels free to feel vulnerable due to it's shelter. In order to feel 'normal' and 'functioning' in a time of emotional crisis, of course he would irrationally recreate traditions in the one place he feels safe. Your post made me think of the potential of the sequel having one of Spidey's rouge's gallery getting a universe hopper and teaming up with a bunch of other universe villians to commit a bunch of crimes. I imagine the Black Cat from Spider-Ham's universe is literally just a snarky black cat who is good at robberies. And the Lizard is just a lizard. Actually, let's just greenlight a Spider-Ham film.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 04:31
|
|
|
asecondduck posted:Your post made me think of the potential of the sequel having one of Spidey's rouge's gallery getting a universe hopper and teaming up with a bunch of other universe villians to commit a bunch of crimes. I imagine the Black Cat from Spider-Ham's universe is literally just a snarky black cat who is good at robberies. And the Lizard is just a lizard. No, Rouge is a Sonic character
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 04:36
|
|
|
I want a feature length animated movie made up of small 10-15 minute stories each focused on a single "spider-entity" each in a different style with different writers and directors that all feed into and reinforce a central theme.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 04:36
|
|
|
I Before E posted:No, Rouge is a Sonic character drat you, autocorrect.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 04:43
|
|
|
I think about anthology films a lot. I'm not sure if Hollywood would go for them anymore, at least for big budget type features. I think most producers would get cold feet just due to the lack of traditional rise-and-fall storylines, and instead left with disjointed stories where audiences fell they were 'done' with the film, only for even more stories to pop up. Maybe a good framing device would negate it, but I'm not convinced it could happen.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 05:17
|
|
|
one thing bothers me they keep talking about how alt-peter let himself go and got fat but he isn't fat asecondduck posted:drat you, autocorrect. you're still better than the multiple posters who thought official chronology was a type of artillery
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 05:30
|
|
|
asecondduck posted:Your post made me think of the potential of the sequel having one of Spidey's rouge's gallery getting a universe hopper and teaming up with a bunch of other universe villians to commit a bunch of crimes. I imagine the Black Cat from Spider-Ham's universe is literally just a snarky black cat who is good at robberies. And the Lizard is just a lizard. As someone who loves both the major animated comic book superhero movies to come out this year, split the difference between this and the TTG movie and have Michael Bolton as Mysterio using his newfound multiverse powers to do diagetic musical numbers in outer space in the sequel.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 05:31
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:one thing bothers me This did bother me.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 05:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 10:14 |
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:one thing bothers me He's pudgy at most, definitely in the realm of Dad Bod
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 05:33
|
|