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Einbauschrank posted:Idg the hate. "Wer nicht arbeitet, soll auch nicht essen" is a staple of the left. As is the "Recht auf Arbeit" which was proudly written into the Menschenrechtscharta. It's not even about the BGE in particular, but the messaging as a whole. It's becoming increasingly apparent that the traditional idea of just making sure everybody has a nice full-time job to live off is simply no longer feasible. Even now a massive amount of the employed are in Prekärbeschäftigung, and the trend of increasing efficiency and automation isn't looking to reverse anytime soon. Parties will need to figure out a concept how to handle this issue*. And now here's the SPD, who is supposed to be specifically looking out for those most threatened and worried by this development, and them rolling up with basically CDU-level rhetoric along the lines of "more work is the answer, welfare bad and for lazy moochers" is... not inspiring, to say the least. *Whether that might be a mincome, sozialer Arbeitsmarkt, the FDP's "just teach everyone to code and do startups and trust the ~*~free market~*~, or something else entirely is a separate issue. Perestroika fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Dec 31, 2018 |
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Dec 31, 2018 12:47
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| # ? May 15, 2024 20:16 |
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Die SPD ist das Berlin der deutschen Parteilandschaft.
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Dec 31, 2018 12:51
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Make sausage out of everyone who can't code and sell the sausage using automated sausage shops 
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Dec 31, 2018 12:54
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Smirr posted:staatstragende drywall
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Dec 31, 2018 12:59
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Libluini posted:Apparently "staatstragend" is code for "only idiots vote for them", considering how the SPD is bombing in elections so far The problem with the tweet isn't that the blurb by Nahles is factually incorrect, it's that it's incredibly tone-deaf. You rightly point out that a universal basic income would just be another welfare scheme in a sugar coat, with macro-economic uncertainties attached. But right now, welfare schemes carry exceptionally bad stigmata. There are tons of people who can't work due to disability and illness, who are stuck in the health and welfare systems. There are segments of working age population who couldn't work in anything but state-subsidized small time employment in toxic jobs at businesses that wouldn't be competitive without state aid. Others are driven to become 'self-employed' delivery drivers, which is just the same kind of state aid to the parental company except with more poo poo. It's my impression that the state has nothing to offer to these people except derision and contempt. If you're working and can't make rent because you're still treated as a Sozialschmarotzer and Bittsteller. Now I agree that a universal basic income would probably not help these people a terrible lot. Maybe it'll be a bit more for some, but less for others. There's the danger that individual needs and hardships that exceed the BGE will not be covered. Maybe it does save the state a little work (and employment, ha) to process the BGE compared to the current system. But to act as though society right now is an egalitarian utopia where everyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps isn't helping. Maybe it is time we acknowledged people's struggles. Maybe it's also time to realize that increasing spending to a group that uses 99% of their money at the supermarket next door is an easy way to ease their problems while stimulating consumption in meager years (I mean isn't Germany's lack of a consumer market one of her biggest economical weaknesses anyway?). So Nahles reflects on all this, then looks at the history of Social Democracy across Europe and in Germany. She realizes that as a Social Democrat she's in the game to stand up for the disenfranchised and create a healthy economy for everyone. Nah gently caress it she goes all  and  about it.I mean, really, who is the SPD trying to appeal to anymore?
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Dec 31, 2018 13:08
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Smirr posted:staatstragende drywall 
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Dec 31, 2018 13:18
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Smirr posted:staatstragende drywall 
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Dec 31, 2018 13:26
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Lord Stimperor posted:The problem with the tweet isn't that the blurb by Nahles is factually incorrect, it's that it's incredibly tone-deaf. If I had political power, I would just set a basic income at a round, easy to process 1k Euro (of course, every year automatically adjusted for inflation, so it wouldn't stay that way for long). I would set the basic income up in a way so it wouldn't interfere with people getting money from the healthcare system and other sources, if they need it. It can't be set lower without the need to adjust a lot of laws anyway: In Hannover, Wohngeld needs a minimum income of ca. 900+ Euro, so a lower basic income would make you ineligible. Tough, if your basic income can't cover your rent but thanks to the local situation there are no cheaper apartments available. To keep things simple (and because I'm incredibly cynical), only adults over the age of 18 would be eligible for the Grundeinkommen, and only half of it if they choose to sit down at home instead of getting their own place to live. To incentivize people living together instead of alone in some lonely hovel, there will be no reductions if you live in a Wohngemeinschaft. Problems would probably arise by people in debt, as the Lohnpfändungsgrenze would probably need adjustment if the Lohnpfändungsgrenze is not adjusted automatically by inflation, as otherwise the basic income would sooner or later grow over the LPG, causing problems if Pfändung of basic income is allowed. I would probably disallow it, but I don't know if the Lohnpfändungsgrenze covers every source of possible income, or if things like Wohngeld, the new basic income, etc. could be / are already excluded. Now I would obviously get into trouble if it turns out the new system costs as much to run as the old one, as then I would need a source of money to cover this. The solutions I've come up so far: -Turning the rich into sausage to feed the poor, steal all their money for the state: Probably not enough money. -Raise taxes on both the rich, the mediocre and the poor: Enough money, but probably causes Kapitalflucht and Revolution. -Implement a post-scarcity economy really fast: Money isn't needed anymore, but probably causes an American intervention and my decapitation by American soldiers. -Dissolve the Rentensystem, as old people die soon anyway: Enough money, but probably causes my decapitation by a mob of angry senior citizens -Dissolve the army: Gets enough money for about 1 sandwich per month per citizen, tops. Suboptimal. Also generates more costs thanks to everyone having to learn Russian after the inevitable invasion. Probably ends up generating negative money after the Russians steal our entire industry for themselves. Man, this poo poo is hard
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Dec 31, 2018 13:44
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Libluini posted:-Dissolve the army: Gets enough money for about 1 sandwich per month per citizen, tops. Suboptimal. Also generates more costs thanks to everyone having to learn Russian after the inevitable invasion. Probably ends up generating negative money after the Russians steal our entire industry for themselves. 
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Dec 31, 2018 13:47
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Libluini posted:If I had political power, I would just set a basic income at a round, easy to process 1k Euro (of course, every year automatically adjusted for inflation, so it wouldn't stay that way for long). I would set the basic income up in a way so it wouldn't interfere with people getting money from the healthcare system and other sources, if they need it. It can't be set lower without the need to adjust a lot of laws anyway: In Hannover, Wohngeld needs a minimum income of ca. 900+ Euro, so a lower basic income would make you ineligible. Tough, if your basic income can't cover your rent but thanks to the local situation there are no cheaper apartments available. Fully agree with this analysis, except for your baffling plan to let all babies starve.
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Dec 31, 2018 13:54
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pidan posted:Fully agree with this analysis, except for your baffling plan to let all babies starve. Having kids is ALWAYS a selfish act, always. There is no other reason for having kids than selfish reasons (besides religious reasons).
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Dec 31, 2018 13:57
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Please don't reward the loving Faden-Nazi by even reading his poo poo past the first sentence if the very first sentence already is an extremely clear lie of the type of "THE NAZIS WERE ACTUALLY SOCIALIST U GUYS"Duzzy Funlop posted:That's not even a "Rasenmähermotor", that's a mass-produced DIY conversion for bikes, and the manual usually includes a big ol' "COMPLY WITH LOCAL LAW AND REGULATION, YOU DINGUS" warning  Lord Stimperor posted:The problem with the tweet isn't that the blurb by Nahles is factually incorrect Mithaldu fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Dec 31, 2018 |
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Dec 31, 2018 14:17
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While we are making suggestions for post-revolutionary Germany, please put this on the list too - people should literally own the means of production, as the great Carl Marx envisioned. Citizens will own 2% of all companies that have their seat in Germany and be entitled to the same rights as all other stock holders. Dividends are distributed equally among all citizens, everyone has one vote. Foreign companies will pay dividends to German citizens on their German revenue as if 2% was owned by them, they can book that as tax expenses
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Dec 31, 2018 14:39
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Mithaldu posted:Please don't reward the loving Faden-Nazi by even reading his poo poo past the first sentence if the very first sentence already is an extremely clear lie of the type of "THE NAZIS WERE ACTUALLY SOCIALIST U GUYS" Wait, who?
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Dec 31, 2018 14:39
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Duzzy Funlop posted:Wait, who? The man who saw Nazis smearing their cum over the hotel curtains and was seriously intrigued
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Dec 31, 2018 14:45
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Duzzy Funlop posted:Wait, who? Einbauschrank is responsible for the thread title by telling the above story in here. He keeps stopping by and saying nazi things.
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Dec 31, 2018 14:47
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The progression on this is kinda interesting. First Riso was the Fadenanzi and he was actually a bonafide national socialist. After he got run out of town, GC was the new Fadenanzi but he was just a soulless, amoral materialist and not actually a nazi. Now Einbauschrank is the new Fadenanzi and he is simply some milquetoast 17 year old FDP edge lord. I wonder who is next Also, Cingulate. He was just some milquetoast academic
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Dec 31, 2018 14:56
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I loving love Rotkäppchen. You drink it pre-party as a cheap festive drink, then on the party when you want an alcoholic palate cleanser from all the cigarette smoke, and then at the after-party for the same reasons when you are coming down of the drugs and more cigarettes. Of course it's not a good wine ffs, that's the whole point.
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Dec 31, 2018 14:56
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Wait, riso and GC are two different people? This stuff is hard to keep track of, randlers deutschgoons.xlsx should be on a public Google drive imo. Peggotty fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Dec 31, 2018 |
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Dec 31, 2018 14:57
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:The progression on this is kinda interesting. First Riso was the Fadenanzi and he was actually a bonafide national socialist. After he got run out of town, GC was the new Fadenanzi but he was just a soulless, amoral materialist and not actually a nazi. Now Einbauschrank is the new Fadenanzi and he is simply some milquetoast 17 year old FDP edge lord. I wonder who is next What did GC get cut for? Also, really, there's no point in making a favourable distinction between a *believing* nazi and an "edge lord shitposter who does it for the lulz". If anything the latter is even worse because they don't believe they're doing anything good, they just want to see people hurt.
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Dec 31, 2018 15:06
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Mithaldu posted:What did GC get cut for?  Link Randler fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Dec 31, 2018 |
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Dec 31, 2018 15:08
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I didn't have any recall of him being a nazi, but i guess getting banned for messing with an israel thread puts that question to bed.
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Dec 31, 2018 15:12
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Mithaldu posted:Einbauschrank is responsible for the thread title by telling the above story in here. He keeps stopping by and saying nazi things. This was a perfectly reasonable discussion among adults until you butted in. Please do what you were trained to do and touch a computer for money rather than straining your mental faculties by trying to form a political thought. It regurlarly leads to you coming across as creep. And as I told you before nobody takes you seriously that way.
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Dec 31, 2018 15:24
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I don't think Einbauschrank is a nazi. He may have some imho reprehensible conservative opinions, but please point me to the post that shows him being a nazi.
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Dec 31, 2018 15:30
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If you want to see real Nazis, I could go and invite them from the Climate Change thread. There you have guys genuinely thinking we can only be saved by establishing a dictatorship and/or killing billions of people. Also some of the posters are seriously mentally ill. If you remember this weird Nazi-obsession with planting trees, there's basically no difference anymore
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Dec 31, 2018 15:40
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Mithaldu posted:What did GC get cut for? In lieu of Oliwanposting, I'm gonna be serious and say I kinda think there really, really is a point in distinguishing between actual Neonazis that are a danger to our democracy and humanity-at-large, and idiots with dumb opinions trolling on some forum. Because the worst the latter do is inconvenience a bunch of other people on said forum, and they can be run out of town relatively easily. Defeating actual Neonazis requires exponentially more effort, and that effort needs to be sustained, almost none of which can be done exclusively on some forum. So blurring the lines between trolls and actual Neonazis (along with everything in between on that spectrum, like racist grandpas, CSU Politiker, AfD Politiker, etc) seems extremely counter-productive to me. I think I made an effort-post to that extent in this very Faden before, but I'd really just prefer if we didn't casually call people Nazis in here unless they are the real deal. Edgelord-Racists? Run them out of town. Trolls posting racist poo poo? Run them out of town. But don't throw around Nazi at a new person every couple of months. (Not addressing you here, mind) Hell, I'm pretty sure Randler was unironically referred to as the Fadennazi more than once.
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Dec 31, 2018 15:44
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Frankly, i find the point worth discussing, even if i see it a bit differently than you. What you say has merit on its own, but i worry that it leaves out the effects large amounts of "ironic shitposters" have on the people who truly believe and are easily swayed into actually acting out horrible poo poo. That said, i'm not against addressing various kinds of detriment to humanity in more exact ways, but i fully admit that i'm a little too lazy to do it consistently and am not yet convinced that it's counter-productive, since for most of those the actual end product on the ground is the same, even if the reach of some is weaker and around some corners. Torrannor posted:I don't think Einbauschrank is a nazi. He may have some imho reprehensible conservative opinions, but please point me to the post that shows him being a nazi.
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Dec 31, 2018 16:05
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Duzzy Funlop posted:In lieu of Oliwanposting, I'm gonna be serious and say I kinda think there really, really is a point in distinguishing between actual Neonazis that are a danger to our democracy and humanity-at-large, and idiots with dumb opinions trolling on some forum. I get what you are saying. But 10 years ago I thought people on 4chan were being edgy and ironic and using Nazi taboos for humor. Similarly I thought people on the internet were making jokes about women in an unfunny but harmless way. They were not making an awkward attention at humor.
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Dec 31, 2018 16:12
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Btw regarding NYE drinks, I got myself a dark Belgian beer that I'll be sipping for an hour or so.
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Dec 31, 2018 16:14
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Duzzy Funlop posted:In lieu of Oliwanposting, I'm gonna be serious and say I kinda think there really, really is a point in distinguishing between actual Neonazis that are a danger to our democracy and humanity-at-large, and idiots with dumb opinions trolling on some forum. Obviously the word Nazi us overused, but that line you don't want to blur doesn't really exist (anymore). We have seen in the last few years that edgy internet Nazis do go out and murder people. That's not a theory anymore, that's what's actually happening.
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Dec 31, 2018 16:14
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Lord Stimperor posted:Btw regarding NYE drinks, I got myself a dark Belgian beer that I'll be sipping for an hour or so. You're a person of culture. Also a good point to strongly recommend to the faden gueuze and fruit beers from belgium.
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Dec 31, 2018 16:16
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RIP that Discord
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Dec 31, 2018 16:25
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Drone posted:RIP that Discord
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Dec 31, 2018 17:36
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In actual RIP news, RIP VIVA.
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Dec 31, 2018 17:45
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Scheisse ist beginnend zu gehen runter in München
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Dec 31, 2018 17:46
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frankenfreak posted:In actual RIP news, RIP VIVA. That'd be nice revenge for the poo poo they did to viva 2.
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Dec 31, 2018 18:02
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My local Edeka just now  
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Dec 31, 2018 18:04
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Driving into the city rn, party with a bunch of old buddies and their (and my) partners. Everyone was putting on a big "woo getting drunk like old times" show and now I got a "uh I might not last until 5 AM can I join you in bailing early and crash at your place instead" call, lol Sekt: I like it, but only for events. Got a lot of it recently because we keep celebrating academic achievements at my institute in Sweden. Coincidentally, I rarely have opportunity to drink because little social life + very expensive alcohol, so it's double welcome. Wife wanted to make sure we have at least one bottle so I'm bringing Freixenet from my mother's basement. I do not have opinions on brands and/or the bouginess thereof.
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Dec 31, 2018 18:06
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oliwan posted:My local Edeka just now 
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Dec 31, 2018 18:07
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i was also in an edeka today looking at booze and thinking "oh, should i get sekt? it is tradition, after all" then i remembered that sekt is terrible and some traditions can happily die, z.B. most of them
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Dec 31, 2018 18:26
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