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ChairMaster posted:Disgust and mild anger at people on the internet who represent the citizenry of my pathetic country are a poo poo load better than how I usually feel on any given day. Then spend your time focusing on helping yourself feel better and working on your own life. It’s harder, and the rewards aren’t as quick, sure, but it’s so so much better for you and your emotions.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:04
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enki42 posted:Who are you talking about? Bernie Sanders? I don't understand how you can think he's a perfect champion of the people and the NDP are evil capitalists in disguise. He might call himself a socialist but his policies are 100% social democratic, the same as the NDP. Probably Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, but she's the only one that comes immediately to mind.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:07
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infernal machines posted:Probably Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, but she's the only one that comes immediately to mind. Sure, but the same argument applies. She's amazing but not "FULL COMMUNISM NOW" or anything, still very solidly a social democrat at best. Unless you mean that she's more of a strident, populist left-wing type, in which case yeah, I agree the left in Canada could absolutely use that (and I haven't seen it from Singh yet).
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Jan 2, 2019 03:09
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First of all, Bernie Sanders is a compromise candidate, and even his insufficient platform represents a change of political ideology of an unprecedented degree, nearly unimaginable only a few short years ago. Secondly no I"m not talking about Bernie Sanders, I'm talking about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and the other progressives who've primaried some of the disgusting ghouls that were running parts of the Democratic party, and are fighting to keep that change coming, and to make an actual difference in their nightmare of a country. It's not yet enough, and there's no guarantee that it's going to work out in the end, but it's a gently caress of a lot better than what we've got going in Canada (which is nothing).
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Jan 2, 2019 03:09
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Arivia posted:Then spend your time focusing on helping yourself feel better and working on your own life. It’s harder, and the rewards aren’t as quick, sure, but it’s so so much better for you and your emotions. gb2en, this thread is not for posting about me and my terrible life. enki42 posted:Sure, but the same argument applies. She's amazing but not "FULL COMMUNISM NOW" or anything, still very solidly a social democrat at best. Full communism now is not the point, nor are the specific politics of any given race. Americans are fighting tooth and nail to make progress, and to make their country a better place for everyone, not just the wealthy. Canada is doing absolutely nothing.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:12
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In the US there's at least some recognition that there's a problem with capitalism. That alone puts them miles ahead of Canada.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:14
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ChairMaster posted:Full communism now is not the point, nor are the specific politics of any given race. Americans are fighting tooth and nail to make progress, and to make their country a better place for everyone, not just the wealthy. Canada is doing absolutely nothing. All of America is fighting tooth and nail to make progress by checks notes.. electing the Republicans to the Senate, and electing a party that's more neoliberal than Paul Martin's wet dreams to take control of the House. The Democrats have allowed some progressive voices through, but lol if you think it's going to make a substantive difference in their policymaking. They're window dressing.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:16
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Well, I mean, there's still plenty of people trying to make things better outside of the bourgeois electoral system, like the IWW and that bear patrol group or whichever who helps people and fights against the Sons of Odin in Winnipeg. There are better political parties in Canada, like the communist party, but we'd have to discuss why a party that has all the right answers isn't getting more support, and what we could do to improve that situation. Just throwing your hands up and saying that a political thread is worthless is going to make people on the fence think that politics is worthless, and then the capitalists win because our best chance is to use our greater numbers to overpower all their wealth and its corresponding power.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:16
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enki42 posted:All of America is fighting tooth and nail to make progress by checks notes.. electing the Republicans to the Senate, and electing a party that's more neoliberal than Paul Martin's wet dreams to take control of the House. The Democrats have allowed some progressive voices through, but lol if you think it's going to make a substantive difference in their policymaking. They're window dressing. Nobody said anything about "All of America" you stupid chode, I specifically said that it might not matter and it might not be enough. The point is that people are trying there, even without a guarantee of success. There is not a single goddamn thing like that happening in Canada, not with any significant numbers.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:19
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People are trying in Canada. If you want the same politics that people like Ocasio-Cortez plank for, there's a big party with seats in the government and everything that advocates for the same things she does (the NDP). If the NDP isn't left wing enough for you, there's (admittedly marginal) parties for everything up to and including Marxism-Leninism. I'd love to have a stronger left-wing presence in Canadian politics, but I don't think it's non-existent and I certainly don't think we should be looking to the U.S. as an inspiration.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:22
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The NDP is decaying before our very eyes, Layton poisoned it and it is now irrelevant. They're going to be nothing more than the Liberals with a singular extra progressive policy tacked on for show before 2030, if not sooner. Nobody is fighting it, nobody is even talking about it. Nobody cares in this country, nobody even loving understands the problems in the first place. Canadians are the ultimate in complacent vacuous lazy assholes, nothing more and nothing less.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:25
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ChairMaster posted:gb2en, this thread is not for posting about me and my terrible life. I don't know if America is the best example of fighting for good government when they just elected Trump.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:27
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ChairMaster posted:The NDP is decaying before our very eyes, Layton poisoned it and it is now irrelevant Commone man. Mr Pepperoni pizza himself is now also a bad politician?
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Jan 2, 2019 03:29
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zapplez posted:I don't know if America is the best example of fighting for good government when they just elected Trump. ChairMaster posted:Nobody said anything about "All of America" you stupid chode Thank you for illustrating the ultimate refuge of Canadian intellectual cowardice, though. "As long as we're better than America that means everything is fine". "Haha look at how bad America is, pay no attention to the pathetic waste of natural resources directly north of it". Jesus loving Christ.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:30
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zapplez posted:Commone man. Mr Pepperoni pizza himself is now also a bad politician? Uh he's an excellent politician as far as getting people to like him and winning votes goes. He also killed any spirit of progress that the NDP may have once had and nobody gives a poo poo, most people don't even know it happened. They're becoming the LPC, and it's largely due to his influence, yes.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:31
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It can't be all Canadians, I mean, you're not right? And I like to think I'm not, so there's two. And probably more. As a Marxist, what do you feel it is about our economic lives that make the majority of Canadians apathetic and uncaring? Once we can identify the problems clearly, then we can discuss the solutions. There may be certain groups, like the youth or economically disadvantaged, who may prove more amenable to our criticisms. Who are they, and how do we reach them? We can both be more productive to our goals if we work together, and allow others to add their viewpoints as well (so long as they aren't liberal viewpoints, which can safely be ignored).
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Jan 2, 2019 03:31
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Maybe it's just harder to see because I live in the 905 and people who aren't actively garbage are still complacent because it hasn't gotten lovely enough for them yet and I don't know how I/the left as a whole can engage these people. Yes America elected Trump but it definitely seems like there are lot more active and prominent leftist voices in America and folks are definitely catching on to capitalism being the loving problem. No politicians here actively talk about plans to fight climate change and it's super disheartening how pro-oil and pro-pipeline it is here. If the Democrats gently caress up again then I'll be wrong but it sure as poo poo looks like they're doing something and at least some of the old guard sees the way the wind is blowing. Meanwhile one of the two provincial NDP governments we have is still shilling hard for the oil industry and federal NDP is almost non-existent but they sure like to send me fundraising letters all the time. All these posts going "hey we're better because Trump" just kind of proves the point.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:37
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It's also possible to join an existing movement/get a few friends to (1) get an NDP membership, (2) get elected on an EDA, (3) be a delegate at conventions, (4) volunteer for resolution prioritization, (5) draft and bring resolutions, (6) vote for better party resolutions, (7) volunteer on a leadership campaign... Outcomes aren't guaranteed, of course, but based on what I've seen in the UK and the US, it could succeed if there's enough grassroots support. It can be frustrating to get involved in politics because old timers and party insiders can be/are refractory to change. It gets easier once you meet people sharing your values and objectives. Re: Liberals vs. Conservatives... If your top priorities are social issues, the two parties are world's apart. But when it comes to fighting (actions, not words) wealth inequality, climate change, austerity, privatization, and corporate welfare, I struggle to differentiate the CPC from the LPC. From Trudeau to Chrétien, Liberals have been more effective at bringing in austerity and tax cuts for the rich/corporations. Perhaps the media and Conservatives calling them left-wing makes it more palate to the public 
EvidenceBasedQuack fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Jan 2, 2019 |
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Jan 2, 2019 03:40
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Ardent Communist posted:It can't be all Canadians, I mean, you're not right? Uh I think you're relatively new to this thread but the fact that I'm a leftist or that I can understand what a disastrous cancer liberalism is doesn't really make me any good. I gave up on this country a long time ago, and if I don't end up killing myself (for non-political reasons) I'm going to be moving to a different country (for entirely separate non-political reasons) as soon as I can anyways. I'm not one of the people who can make this country any better, I'm content to either let it rot or let the people here try to stop the decline or pick up the pieces afterwards. I have no love for this place, and even though I'm less of a part of the problem than the liberals, I'm certainly not part of the solution. Ardent Communist posted:what do you feel it is about our economic lives that make the majority of Canadians apathetic and uncaring? The problems are that our country is uneducated in critical thinking, racist as poo poo, and embrace a cultural identity almost entirely comprised of complacence and willful ignorance. This country has nothing left in it resembling community or belonging, this is a country without love. I can't think of any solution for that.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:43
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ChairMaster posted:
The solution is to get the gently caress out of your house and challenge your preconceived notions of how the entire country functions instead of ranting off the chain in here. Shocking news: you won't find a sense of community or belonging if your social life is videogames and shitposting on SA all day.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:55
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ChairMaster posted:Uh I think you're relatively new to this thread but the fact that I'm a leftist or that I can understand what a disastrous cancer liberalism is doesn't really make me any good. I gave up on this country a long time ago, and if I don't end up killing myself (for non-political reasons) I'm going to be moving to a different country (for entirely separate non-political reasons) as soon as I can anyways. I know you hate me for political reasons, but man, you need to either get a new therapist or start seeing one. Its totally hosed up to keep casually bringing up suicide as this plausible option for your short term future. Its really unhealthy to think of it like that. Maybe it means something when dozens of people online who only know you by your posting get really worried for your mental health.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:58
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Rime posted:The solution is to get the gently caress out of your house and challenge your preconceived notions of how the entire country functions instead of ranting off the chain in here. Most of the people I've known who came from other countries agree with me pretty firmly on that one, dude. zapplez posted:Maybe it means something when dozens of people online who only know you by your posting get really worried for your mental health. gb2en
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Jan 2, 2019 04:05
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Are they chairmasters too? Because most of the people I know of the same category would disagree with your particular notions. Checkmate. 
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Jan 2, 2019 04:25
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ChairMaster posted:Most of the people I've known who came from other countries agree with me pretty firmly on that one, dude. On which part? The racism or lack of critical thinking? Most of my friends who come from other countries wouldn't agree that Canada is especially racist (not to say that there's not problems to work on, but I think that could be said about any country in the world), at least to non-Indigenous minorities.
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Jan 2, 2019 04:28
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All of it to varying degrees, but I mostly meant the lack of community, belonging, and respect.
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Jan 2, 2019 04:30
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ChairMaster posted:I gave up on this country a long time ago, and if I don't end up killing myself (for non-political reasons) I'm going to be moving to a different country (for entirely separate non-political reasons) as soon as I can anyways. I still want to know what the destination you have in mind is. Ancestral homeland, spouse's homeland, or perhaps glorious Nippon, home of anime babes?
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Jan 2, 2019 05:03
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It's more than a little odd watching posters who know better feign surprise that a leftist in Canada might be disillusioned with the NDP's rightward shift and the lack of any meaningful left-of-centre parties in this country. It's not unreasonable to see the successes of an organization like the DSA in the US as signs they're in a better place than we are. But sure, go on baiting ChairMaster if you must.
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Jan 2, 2019 05:09
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Crazy Idea, why not just get rid of government all together and be ruled by courts?
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Jan 2, 2019 05:58
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ChairMaster is no leftist. Just a nihilist.
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Jan 2, 2019 06:44
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Anyone else hoping Jagmeet goes down in flames in the upcoming by-election?
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Jan 2, 2019 06:58
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Paul Martin was a decent prime minister and certainly the best of the last 30 years, even if many of the good things he did (healthcare/childcare funding and the Kelowna Accord) were simply trying to repair the damage he wreaked as Chretien's finance minister.
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Jan 2, 2019 06:58
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Ego-bot posted:Anyone else hoping Jagmeet goes down in flames in the upcoming by-election? He'll win, much as I'd love him losing. In other news, my favourite "Happy New Year" article: Suck it up, everybody: Here are nine years infinitely worse than 2018 Quick spoiler: - 1347 - 1942 - 1520 - 536 - 1816 - 1918 - 1960 - 1241 - 70,000 BC
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Jan 2, 2019 09:33
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Vintersorg posted:ChairMaster is no leftist. Just a nihilist. I mean, say what you will about the tenets of neoliberalism, at least it's an ethos.
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Jan 2, 2019 13:10
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BGrifter posted:It's more than a little odd watching posters who know better feign surprise that a leftist in Canada might be disillusioned with the NDP's rightward shift and the lack of any meaningful left-of-centre parties in this country. It's not unreasonable to see the successes of an organization like the DSA in the US as signs they're in a better place than we are. I get if you're a socialist that the NDP fully embracing social democracy is a bummer. I don't agree personally, but it makes perfect sense to me. What I don't get is the idea that U.S. democrats who call themselves socialists are any better. I'll admit I don't know much about the DSAs platform (it's fairly big-tent, isn't it?), but Ocasio-Cortez and Sanders are 100% social democrats and would be perfectly at home in the NDP, there's not a single elected official in the United States that isn't more of a social democrat than a democratic socialist.
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Jan 2, 2019 13:22
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It's not about policy, it's about radicalism.
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Jan 2, 2019 13:36
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Pinterest Mom posted:It's not about policy, it's about radicalism. I'm not sure what you mean by radicalism. If you mean it in the "proposing radical changes" like replacing capitalism, Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are not that at all - they're both firmly in the reformist camp. If you mean it in terms of sort of a bold populism thing, sure, I agree that Canada could use more of that, but I don't think that's the argument that's being made - in that line of argument Jack Layton is the hero we all needed rather than the evil architect of the NDP's destruction.
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Jan 2, 2019 13:55
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Ego-bot posted:Anyone else hoping Jagmeet goes down in flames in the upcoming by-election? gently caress that champagne socialist, can't wait to see his out of touch tweets five years after ouster. 
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Jan 2, 2019 13:56
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I honestly don't know what I want with Singh. I'm seriously uninspired by him and wish the NDP had a new leader. But if he loses, the NDP is going to be in total disarray as of the next election, and I'd rather have an NDP capable of at least retaining some semblance of presence in Parliament. Ideally he's pushed out soon after the 2019 elections. I'll say at a minimum he's better than Muclair on policy from the little we've seen.
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Jan 2, 2019 13:59
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enki42 posted:Ocasio-Cortez and Sanders are 100% social democrats and would be perfectly at home in the NDP No, they’d get bored and leave to find somewhere where they could actually push for meaningful change.
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Jan 2, 2019 14:02
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enki42 posted:I'm not sure what you mean by radicalism. I meant some variation on the second, but not quite. If you think the system has failed and the people in charge aren't up to the task, it's not sufficient to replace a government with Gerry Butts as chief advisor with one where Brad Lavigne is. A lot of the upper echelon of the New Dems, even if they did start out as anti-establishment firebrands, have through a decade or two of Ottawa+shuffling around to various provincial parties and governments become a credible alternative governing team, but at the expense of being a credible alternative to the system. If you think the professionalisation of the part is the problem, then Jack was the problem: that was his project as leader. The Jack and Tom-led NDP had stricter party discipline than the Harper Conservatives, and sticking to the party line is inherently small-c conservative. Bernie and AOC have the quality of not taking the system for granted, and being able to articulate that forcefully. We don't have that in Canadian politics outside QS. Policy matters, but so does stance vis-a-vis the system. Ironically, Jagmeet's weakness as leader has frayed Party discipline and allowed Charlie Angus and Niki to somewhat occupy that space, and Charlie in particular is very obviously running for leader rn for the contingency where Jagmeet loses the byelelection.
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Jan 2, 2019 14:10
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