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Epic High Five posted:rural whites will participate in revolution before the urban libs do, and when the libs join in it will be on the side of the fascists rural whites hate fascism yes
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Jan 3, 2019 23:35
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World War Mammories posted:as an urban by-some-metrics lib, all i ask is a chance to prove myself for the revolution, and a swift death by firing squad when i fail you'll be the first the libs help the new SS round up sorry H.P. Hovercraft posted:rural whites hate fascism yes they like it more than anything third way dems have to offer, but even here the two are just tied a left populist message would get at least enough turncoats for things to get really fuckin ugly for the GOP in their beating heart districts affluent libs have never, ever, ever in the history of the world sided with people to their left if the status quo was on the line but there's a loooooong history of poor whites gathering together to pull their boss out of their house and throw him down a well
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Jan 3, 2019 23:38
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Epic High Five posted:a left populist message would get at least enough turncoats for things to get really fuckin ugly for the GOP in their beating heart districts i'm not 100% sure about the former on the gulf coast these days, but the longs did manage to pull it off without having to dip into racism and jesus by telling louisianians that the new deal wasn't good enough and demanding to go further (to be paid for by a wealth tax) so the playbook's certainly there if you can go hard enough to tempt assassination but you're absolutely right about the latter and i can see plenty of libs turning coat p quick in any kinda hard downturn, comparatively
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Jan 3, 2019 23:47
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Epic High Five posted:affluent libs have never, ever, ever in the history of the world sided with people to their left if the status quo was on the line but there's a loooooong history of poor whites gathering together to pull their boss out of their house and throw him down a well we've covered this, op. there's an even longer history of poor whites fighting and dying for their boss' right to subjugate nonwhite people
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Jan 3, 2019 23:50
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:i'm not 100% sure about the former on the gulf coast these days, but the longs did manage to pull it off without having to dip into racism and jesus by telling louisianians that the new deal wasn't good enough and demanding to go further (to be paid for by a wealth tax) so the playbook's certainly there if you can go hard enough to tempt assassination Gulf Coast like Florida? lol parts of it maybe but the chud retiree and moloch worshipper bits will never bend because their whole worldview is using any leverage to cause innocent people to suffer The rest of the gulf coast tho is basically huge amounts of poor and minority people who have been getting skullfucked by the establishment elite for decades or centuries and yeah it's no mystery why anybody who starts to talk about how social reform isn't enough, and we need economic and prison reform too, suddenly gets killed in an extremely mysterious way
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Jan 3, 2019 23:50
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:we've covered this, op. there's an even longer history of poor whites fighting and dying for their boss' right to subjugate nonwhite people progressive reform will never, ever get a majority of white people, I'd be stupid to claim that, but it doesn't need a majority of them if it creates enthusiasm among the youth and minority blocs while also attracting a small but significant amount of self-styled independent whites there's a reason why collaborator Dems use the messaging they do lol, their whole intention is to be uninspiring so they're never put in a position where they'll have to do more than hold expensive cocktail parties with donors
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Jan 3, 2019 23:52
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not all whites 
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Jan 3, 2019 23:55
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Epic High Five posted:they like it more than anything third way dems have to offer, but even here the two are just tied rural whites liked third way Democrats because third-way Democrats framed their welfare reforms as punishing the "lazy" and rewarding the "hard-working". The whole point of welfare reform was to link government assistance to work to appease racial resentment on the part of rural whites who saw welfare as rewarding Cadillac driving welfare queens. Rural white America hates the "unvirtuous" poor below them as much as the coastal elites above them. bill clinton was popular in rural america, and continued to be all the way up to maybe 2016 if not today. Rural America is not some hotspring of leftism just waiting for a socialist savior to come along.
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Jan 3, 2019 23:58
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:we've covered this, op. there's an even longer history of poor whites fighting and dying for their boss' right to subjugate nonwhite people Of course, the affluent are well served by inaction. They get their armed enforcers to do the work of beating and killing.
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Jan 3, 2019 23:58
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then, of course, you have the fact that an entire generation that is already skewing to the left pretty hard is being actively denied all of the lifetime milestones that would make one amenable to the status quo by the rent seeking turbo capitalists that preceded them anyway it's all irrelevant because climate change is gonna kill us all first, and those that live will either be exiled to the radioactive wastes or pressed into indentured service as a gas chamber operator at camps for climate refugees
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Jan 3, 2019 23:59
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Also remember that left wing orgs in the South are actively attacked if they get big enough. A thing I've noticed in local town elections is that having organization can be more important than just matching the town's political alignment. Thats why telecom companies can shut down efforts for municipal wifi or broad band, cause they got professionals who can politic and campaign 24/7 with a 3 ring binder of proven tactics and the locals are like 20 people handing out flyers when theyre off work. Thats the point of cointelpro, to stop local movments from getting their poo poo together enough to threaten that.
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Jan 4, 2019 00:00
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Typo posted:rural whites liked third way Democrats because third-way Democrats framed their welfare reforms as punishing the "lazy" and rewarding the "hard-working". The whole point of welfare reform was to link government assistance to work to appease racial resentment on the part of rural whites who saw welfare as rewarding Cadillac driving welfare queens. Rural white America hates the "unvirtuous" poor below them as much as the coastal elites above them. They seem pretty torn on Bernie in a way that isn't the case about any third way Dem maybe they just want a white guy with funny hair who promises to destroy everything
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Jan 4, 2019 00:05
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I think a really funny political geography dark horse that has a 50/50 chance of happening would be the next big crash causing a flight from coastal enclaves of young white people to mid-large cities in the interior, it's already happening to an extent in Texas and it's collapsed a shitload of gerrymanders
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Jan 4, 2019 00:08
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Epic High Five posted:They seem pretty torn on Bernie in a way that isn't the case about any third way Dem OTOH: Third way Democrats actually -won- general elections in rural America whereas Bernie haven't the type of Democrat who actually wins rural America in actual elections aren't some left-wing third world Maoist that a bunch of internet posters who overwhelmingly live in urban enclaves thinks rural America wants (because Marxist (tm) class analysis). The Democrats who win there are relatively moderate Democrats like Sherrod Brown and Amy Klobuchar and Steve Bullock.
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Jan 4, 2019 00:09
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Typo posted:OTOH: Third way Democrats actually -won- general elections in rural America whereas Bernie haven't lol every Dem in my state took your advice and now I don't have any Dem reps anymore, doesn't stop the pisshog from going on TV all the time to lecture me on how to win elections by running right and punching left tho shithead center right Dems have been the overwhelming majority of the party for decades and all they've done is lose thousands of seats and become the Washington Generals of politics, if it was a winning formula we wouldn't be here right now
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Jan 4, 2019 00:13
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Epic High Five posted:lol every Dem in my state took your advice and now I don't have any Dem reps anymore, doesn't stop the pisshog from going on TV all the time to lecture me on how to win elections by running right and punching left tho The reason why Democrats lost rural america is that they were seen as too left and that you can no longer credibly run as a conservative Democrat. Obama lost because he was seen as too left in whole swath of rural America, the appeal of him as a left-wing progressive (which he never was lol) was always among young people in cities, not the heartland.
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Jan 4, 2019 00:18
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Typo posted:Obama lost because he was seen as too left in whole swath of rural America, the appeal of him as a left-wing progressive (which he never was lol) was always among young people in cities, not the heartland. the gently caress did obama lose
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Jan 4, 2019 00:19
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Agean90 posted:the gently caress did obama lose the 2010 midterms in the exact same way Trump lost the 2018 house election
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Jan 4, 2019 00:20
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Typo posted:OTOH: Third way Democrats actually -won- general elections in rural America whereas Bernie haven't ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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Jan 4, 2019 00:22
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Typo posted:The reason why Democrats lost rural america is that they were seen as too left and that you can no longer credibly run as a conservative Democrat. oh so their primary issue is losing the messaging war because they aren't even trying to fight back, because it's clear to everybody that they don't actually BELIEVE in anything 2008 Obama took my state lol Typo posted:the 2010 midterms are you going to argue that this happened because the Dems in 2018 took your advice and ran on a Republican platform? Because I'm in a blood red state and let me tell you the vaunted political imaginings of rural Americans that you claim is so critical was very much insisting the opposite
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Jan 4, 2019 00:24
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Typo posted:the 2010 midterms you mean by half assing his promised reforms in a way that only benefited a faction of the people while also dismantling his grassroots org preventing him from replicating turnout? Also I don't recall Obama ginning up a story entirely for the midterms and using it to dominate the media's reporting
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Jan 4, 2019 00:25
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every "relatively moderate" Dem in "flyover country" ate loving poo poo because anybody who wants lower taxes and a secure border or whatever it is those dumbasses are rambling on about now has a shiny new party of explicit genocide and white supremacy and looting of the public coffers to vote for
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Jan 4, 2019 00:25
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Obama took my state on a left reform message and then lost it when he turned out to be a center right schmuck lol He'd have done better in 2010 and 2012 if he's killed all the bankers like he promised
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Jan 4, 2019 00:27
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*spends decades not doing anything so the state parties wither* actually the progressive candidates are to blame. Let's sell out gay people!!!
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Jan 4, 2019 00:27
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Epic High Five posted:UHHHHHH SIR, SIR PRESIDENT TRUMP SIR, I VOTED FOR *OTHER* PEOPLE'S CHILDREN TO BE SACRIFICED TO MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO OF WHITE SUPREMACY, NOT *MY* CHILDREN SIR securing a future for our young gray matter?
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Jan 4, 2019 00:29
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Epic High Five posted:oh so their primary issue is losing the messaging war because they aren't even trying to fight back, because it's clear to everybody that they don't actually BELIEVE in anything 1) incumbent GOP president at what 28% approval? 2) Iraq war 3) 2008 financial crisis all at once, so yeah you are gonna flip a deep red state under those circumstances, not because Indiana secretly wants socialism quote:are you going to argue that this happened because the Dems in 2018 took your advice and ran on a Republican platform? Because I'm in a blood red state and let me tell you the vaunted political imaginings of rural Americans that you claim is so critical was very much insisting the opposite Tester and Manchin both won their races even if Mascksill/Heidi/Donnelly lost, even though manchin is probably the closest dem to be a republican there is. You might have a point, except for the winners of 2018 were moderate Democrats whom D&D swear would never win an election ever, and the senators who beat the blue-dog trio were even more conservative Republicans. That suggests the problem was never "oh if only they ran as maoists they woulda won", that suggests rural america is overwhelmingly conservative, and they voted Republican because you can no longer credibly run as a conservative democrat.
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Jan 4, 2019 00:30
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Agean90 posted:you mean by half assing his promised reforms in a way that only benefited a faction of the people while also dismantling his grassroots org preventing him from replicating turnout? Also I don't recall Obama ginning up a story entirely for the midterms and using it to dominate the media's reporting I'm not gonna say you are wrong in the sense that yes, mobilization is a good strategy, but "mobilize the grassroot" wins you cities and maybe suburbs, it's not gonna help you in rural america because there aren't that many young people or progressives for you to mobilize Typo has issued a correction as of 00:34 on Jan 4, 2019 |
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Jan 4, 2019 00:31
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Epic High Five posted:every "relatively moderate" Dem in "flyover country" ate loving poo poo because anybody who wants lower taxes and a secure border or whatever it is those dumbasses are rambling on about now has a shiny new party of explicit genocide and white supremacy and looting of the public coffers to vote for this might surprise you but it's entirely possible that rural America simultaneously hates people who call them flyover country but they also really wants to keep out immigrants Typo has issued a correction as of 00:35 on Jan 4, 2019 |
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Jan 4, 2019 00:32
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https://twitter.com/VaughnHillyard/status/1080851981814636545 I wish there was a way to only open the government for non chuds while people like this suffered. Ither has issued a correction as of 00:35 on Jan 4, 2019 |
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Jan 4, 2019 00:32
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Ither posted:https://twitter.com/VaughnHillyard/status/1080851981814636545 Things gonna start getting real wild after gov workers miss their first paycheck on the 6th.
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Jan 4, 2019 00:33
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Epic High Five posted:you'll be the first the libs help the new SS round up sorry There's also a long history of poor whites rallying together to do certain other things to other sorts of people. And I think those people went up in trees rather than down wells. I mean the fundamental thing is right, but that's after one digs through your working class person fetishism that is going to do gently caress all to actually grapple with the state of the nation and the brain poisons that are so popular in that demographic.
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Jan 4, 2019 00:34
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Typo posted:I'm not gonna say you are wrong, but "mobilize the grassroot" wins you cities and maybe suburbs, it's not gonna help you in rural america because there aren't that many young people or progressives for you to mobilize you are a moron
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Jan 4, 2019 00:35
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Typo posted:bill clinton was popular in rural america, and continued to be all the way up to maybe 2016 if not today. Rural America is not some hotspring of leftism just waiting for a socialist savior to come along. Typo posted:the type of Democrat who actually wins rural America in actual elections aren't some left-wing third world Maoist that a bunch of internet posters who overwhelmingly live in urban enclaves thinks rural America wants (because Marxist (tm) class analysis). The Democrats who win there are relatively moderate Democrats like Sherrod Brown and Amy Klobuchar and Steve Bullock. Grape posted:I mean the fundamental thing is right, but that's after one digs through your working class person fetishism that is going to do gently caress all to actually grapple with the state of the nation and the brain poisons that are so popular in that demographic. Halloween Jack has issued a correction as of 00:42 on Jan 4, 2019 |
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Jan 4, 2019 00:38
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Typo posted:I'm not gonna say you are wrong, but "mobilize the grassroot" wins you cities and maybe suburbs, it's not gonna help you in rural america because there aren't that many young people or progressives for you to mobilize Just because there "aren't that many" doesnt make it worth while. The Dems didn't just lose federal seats, the lost hundreds of local and state seats that have a serious effect on how people live their lives. While getting a bunch of high schoolers and can't llege dropouts in nowheresville to help canvass won't flip the house rep seat, it can flip city and county councils which can have a radical effect on everything from how schools taught, to rent control, to getting multiunit housing put in over mcmansions, to keeping the town bus line operating past 5pm. All of that stuff is things people notice and the Dems current situation can be directly traced to giving up in a lot of those elections.
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Jan 4, 2019 00:40
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Grape posted:There's also a long history of poor whites rallying together to do certain other things to other sorts of people. And I think those people went up in trees rather than down wells. the KKK was primarily white middle management and chamber of commerce types as well as white clergy, the groups most invested in a racial caste system and maintenance of the status quo and who have been the most reliable reactionaries in this country since before it was a country my pitch is that instead of trying to appeal to these types of people they should appear to the actually poor people who actually vote for them the most persistent lie repeated today in politics is that Americans are a lot more conservative than they actually are when you ask them, the Dems internalized this and ate poo poo because of it, I don't advise you do the same
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Jan 4, 2019 00:41
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Halloween Jack posted:I'm curious where this data comes from, because without compiling a huge county-by-county map of the entire country for every state and general election going back decades, all I can really confirm is that yes, states with proportionally rural populations liked Clinton better than they liked any other Democratic candidates. the other fun part is that for some reason, after clinton cut their welfare and it turned out that oops, they were actually tallied in the ranks of the Undeserving, eat poo poo, they didn't come back to the party ever again. probably just because of their being racist against john kerry, imo
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Jan 4, 2019 00:42
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Agean90 posted:Just because there "aren't that many" doesnt make it worth while. The Dems didn't just lose federal seats, the lost hundreds of local and state seats that have a serious effect on how people live their lives. While getting a bunch of high schoolers and can't llege dropouts in nowheresville to help canvass won't flip the house rep seat, it can flip city and countr oh sure, I'm not saying you are wrong or mobilization is the wrong strategy. Mobilization is absolutely the right strategy and 2018 showed that.
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Jan 4, 2019 00:42
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Halloween Jack posted:I'm curious where this data comes from, because without compiling a huge county-by-county map of the entire country for every state and general election going back decades, all I can really confirm is that yes, states with proportionally rural populations liked Clinton better than they liked any other Democratic candidates. Clinton won around half the counties in America in 1996 By the time Obama won re-election in 2012 he was down to around a quarter of the counties, he actually won less counties in wining than Dukakis won in losing in '88 Hillary Clinton was at around 15-17% in 2016 I think The kicker is of course, all 3 won the popular vote so the easiest explanation is that the Democratic votes have became more concentrated in cities and lost them in rural areas, hence why they can maintain popular vote victories while having a fraction of the counties they had 20 years ago
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Jan 4, 2019 00:45
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the other fun part is that for some reason, after clinton cut their welfare and it turned out that oops, they were actually tallied in the ranks of the Undeserving, eat poo poo, they didn't come back to the party ever again. Crazy talk. Poor white people would rather chop their own dicks off than just vote for whatever party supports unions and social spending. It's why West Virginia is, and has always been, the most solidly Republican state in the union.
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Jan 4, 2019 00:46
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why are poor whites so racist tho it’s a conspiracy from white middle management KKK types!!!! lol what
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Jan 4, 2019 00:46
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