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Jewel Repetition posted:In this hypothetical does everything derivative of Star Wars also not exist? Because otherwise you'd get a https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeinfeldIsUnfunny situation It's a universe where Starcrash was a huge hit and had 8 sequels and set off the space opera trend.
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Jan 3, 2019 20:31
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Davros1 posted:I wonder what it would have been like if the first ever Star Wars film hadn't come out until this year. Can you imagine the internet's reaction? I imagine it being only a small indie film that gets lot of talk and hype in nerd circles on the internet but doesn’t go anywhere after its theater run. And I say this as A New Hope coming out today exactly as it did in 1977.
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Jan 3, 2019 20:43
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What if it was something like The Other Side of the Wind where it was never finished because of funding and rights complications and Netflix bought it and edited it together 50 years later. Everybody would be like “Holy poo poo, a new George Lucas movie!”
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Jan 3, 2019 20:47
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It's really hard to say since Star Wars transformed so much of the movie business. Without it, maybe the shift to blockbusters is still inevitable, but it takes a slightly different form. Science fiction doesn't get that instant "Hey, this genre can make lots of money!" boost, and ILM doesn't advance FX technology quite as much.
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Jan 3, 2019 20:56
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I can't even imagine the kinds of things people would occupy themselves with in the absence of 30 years of Star Wars EU. Like, I doubt all that energy would have flown into something more, uh, healthy. Nedit: Also, toys.
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Jan 3, 2019 23:23
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Jewel Repetition posted:I was thinking today about how to make the ST characters more interesting and I realized that the new She-Ra wrote Finn's story 10x better This is so right, and it's a drat shame. Would have been a great arc for FN
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Jan 3, 2019 23:25
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I said come in! posted:We see him murder multiple co-workers throughout the Empire Strikes Back is what I mean Yeah you are right, but my gosh the rest of his living body needs nutrients.
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Jan 3, 2019 23:45
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C-Bangin' it 
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Grendels Dad posted:I can't even imagine the kinds of things people would occupy themselves with in the absence of 30 years of Star Wars EU. Like, I doubt all that energy would have flown into something more, uh, healthy. toys own. I wish I liked Star Wars more these days so I could buy them, but at the same time, very thankful. Kinda want that Hot Toys Kylo Ren though.
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Jan 3, 2019 23:47
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Maxwell Lord posted:It's really hard to say since Star Wars transformed so much of the movie business. Without it, maybe the shift to blockbusters is still inevitable, but it takes a slightly different form. Science fiction doesn't get that instant "Hey, this genre can make lots of money!" boost, and ILM doesn't advance FX technology quite as much. You have to throw Jaws in there too, I think if you take BOTH out of the equation it makes it very hard to assume things would've played out the same way. But I think even without Star Wars, the massive success of Spielberg would've been enough to have mostly the same effect and I'm sure Lucas would've been involved in that in some shape or form as well.
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Jan 3, 2019 23:52
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Action figures are the one stereotypically nerdy thing I've never ever been able to get into.
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Jan 4, 2019 00:01
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I was think more along the lines would anyone have taken it seriously, and hold the characters to such a reverent degree? Pretty sure people would mock Vader, Chewbacca, and the droids relentlessly.
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Jan 4, 2019 00:59
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Like, they do mock them now. But definitely tinged with love
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Jan 4, 2019 01:19
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General Dog posted:What if it was something like The Other Side of the Wind where it was never finished because of funding and rights complications and Netflix bought it and edited it together 50 years later. Everybody would be like “Holy poo poo, a new George Lucas movie!” This is what I'm hoping for, but it's the '77 film with the original stock WWII footage.
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Jan 4, 2019 01:33
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Wheat Loaf posted:Action figures are the one stereotypically nerdy thing I've never ever been able to get into. THEY'RE NOT DOLLS
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Jan 4, 2019 01:35
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Toys in general are something I've not really been into for a long time. When I was around 12, my dad told me I was too old for Lego, but I could have books instead.
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Jan 4, 2019 01:59
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RBA Starblade posted:THEY'RE NOT DOLLS Dolls have clothes. If they have clothes they're dolls.
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Jan 4, 2019 02:20
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Wheat Loaf posted:Toys in general are something I've not really been into for a long time. When I was around 12, my dad told me I was too old for Lego, but I could have books instead. Sounds like he just got sick of stepping on fuckin Legos because of his 12 year old since Legos are for all ages.
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Jan 4, 2019 02:39
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AndyElusive posted:Sounds like he just got sick of stepping on fuckin Legos because of his 12 year old since Legos are for all ages. Don't dismiss stepping on Lego's so casually. Those things should be banned under the Geneva Convention.
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Jan 4, 2019 06:14
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AndyElusive posted:Sounds like he just got sick of stepping on fuckin Legos because of his 12 year old since Legos are for all ages. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTZyLiIaZY4
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Jan 4, 2019 06:18
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Wheat Loaf posted:Action figures are the one stereotypically nerdy thing I've never ever been able to get into. I never really played with action figures. I created all my own stories out of whole-cloth using my huge collection of random stuffed animals. And in my mind I played it like a single-cast sci fi anthology show where the characters stayed the same but each adventure was wildly different and took place across a wide variety of diverse genres through the use of spaceships and time machines. With things like Star Wars action figures I always felt too limited in what I could do.
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Jan 4, 2019 06:20
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Action figures are fine but video games are better. Take up less space, too.
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Jan 4, 2019 07:02
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Guilty Gear is a video game that lets you make action figure dioramas in the game, making it the best of both worlds
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Jan 4, 2019 07:22
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Freakazoid_ posted:Action figures are fine but video games are better. Take up less space, too. Have you tried stepping on a video game, though? It's not really the same.
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Jan 4, 2019 08:12
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Grendels Dad posted:Have you tried stepping on a video game, though? It's not really the same. What about licking a Nintendo Switch cartridge?
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Jan 4, 2019 08:35
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I'm not really into computer games either. Haven't played a new one in several years; I think the last new game I played was that Kingdom Hearts game that was exclusively for the PSP, whenever that one came out. For the most part they're just too expensive for my tastes. I got my brother that cowboy game for his birthday last November and it was about £50.
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Jan 4, 2019 13:53
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I love that advertising people made up “action figure” for dolls.
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Jan 4, 2019 14:32
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Waffles Inc. posted:This is so right, and it's a drat shame. Would have been a great arc for FN Yeah there's so many conflicts and interesting places to go with a defection. Culture shock, meeting someone who killed one of your comrades, trust issues... but the only angle they explored was how scared he is of the First Order. And even that didn't get satisfyingly developed, partly because John Boyega isn't great at acting scared and partly, I assume, because they didn't want to veer too close to the old "cowardly black guy" trope
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Jan 4, 2019 16:59
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euphronius posted:I love that advertising people made up “action figure” for dolls. WITH Topical and in theme with the thread. 
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Jan 4, 2019 17:37
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I have a question. In the 1970s, did people ever get really snobby about Star Wars and call Lucas lazy or uncreative for essentially reheating old Flash Gordo and Buck Rogers serials from the 30s and 40s? I'm just thinking, one problem in Hollywood today is that they lean too heavily on nostalgia. At the same time, the original Star Wars trilogy (and Indiana Jones after it) is hugely indebted to Lucas's own nostalgia for these things he loved as a boy, so I'm curious if that was ever a critique of the original Star Wars or if it was novel enough in its spectacle (which I realise it absolutely was) to deflect it? I guess I'm always reminded that William Friedkin's Sorcerer was released opposite Star Wars and that movie bombing while Star Wars went on to become the biggest movie ever at the time has retroactively been adopted as being sort of emblematic of the end of New Hollywood risk-taking.
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Jan 4, 2019 21:55
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Wheat Loaf posted:I have a question. In the 1970s, did people ever get really snobby about Star Wars and call Lucas lazy or uncreative for essentially reheating old Flash Gordo and Buck Rogers serials from the 30s and 40s? ANH was incredibly well reviewed, with most people almost not knowing what to say about it, because imagine how goddamn weird it is in a vacuum. Like this from 'Newsday' quote:“Star Wars” confirms what was recognizable in Lucas’ first two films, “THX 1138” and “American Graffiti.” Lucas, an artist and lifelong model builder, is without peer as a compleat designer of films among the younger generation of American directors. His unerring good taste and painstaking craftsmanship qualify him as a cinematic genius. There were definitely people who thought exactly like what you thought though about rehashing. Here's NY Mag's review (read the whole thing, it's great) quote:O dull new world! We are treated to a galactic civil war, assorted heroes and villains, a princely maiden in distress, a splendid old man surviving from an extinct order of knights who possessed a mysterious power called “the Force,” and it is all as exciting as last year’s weather reports. Rather more can be said for the two robots that steal the show: one humanoid, British-accented, and with an Edward Everett Horton persona; the other, a kind of mobile electronic trash can, all nervous beeps and hearty bloops, waddling along in vintage Mickey Rooney style. There are glimpses, too, of interesting new animals and peculiar hybrids, but they don’t do or say anything novel. For a while, this is funny, as it is doubtless meant to be; finally, though, we do yearn for something really new. Why, even the best fight is just an old-fashioned duel, for all that the swords have laser beams for blades
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Jan 4, 2019 22:58
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Yeah I mean I think what was so groundbreaking about Star Wars, above all else, was the fact that Lucas synthesized something from *so* many disparate genres and works, and it worked more or less flawlessly. Listing all of them is a bit of a cliché at this point, but imagine being a director in '75 when all of the other great directors are working strictly within genre confines (war film, noir, etc.) and you go ahead and pitch something that is a combination of: Kurosawa, Frank Herbert, Flash Gordon, JRR Tolkein, Sergio Leone, David Lean (River Kwai), etc. etc. etc., and it somehow all works. It was an unprecedented pastiche at a time when everyone else seemed to be working within a strict genre. Ghostbusters, while much less ambitious, is probably another good example of this: an extremely high budget sci-fi film that is actually just a comedy. This is a good opportunity to post this, which is example 1,000,000 why Roger Ebert was a treasure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky9-eIlHzAE Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jan 4, 2019 |
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Jan 4, 2019 23:15
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Jewel Repetition posted:Yeah there's so many conflicts and interesting places to go with a defection. Culture shock, meeting someone who killed one of your comrades, trust issues... but the only angle they explored was how scared he is of the First Order. And even that didn't get satisfyingly developed, partly because John Boyega isn't great at acting scared and partly, I assume, because they didn't want to veer too close to the old "cowardly black guy" trope John Boyega's perfectly fine at acting scared:  But this actually illustrates one of the main disconnects between the new movies and the old movies. In terms of the larger narrative, this moment is barely a blip on the radar, and yet Finn is evincing more emotion here than Luke finding his aunt and uncle's bodies and Leia witnessing the destruction of her entire planet combined. And this style of dramatic, "naturalistic" emoting at nearly every opportunity continues throughout both the rest of TFA and TLJ. What happens as a result is that the really big emotional beats don't stand out from the rest, because every smaller beat prior to that point was already played to the hilt. It leads to emotional overload and just causes the viewer to burn out and become numb to the highs and lows. But this is considered to be "good directing" by people, as if good direction begins and ends with the variety and amount of moisture you are able to successfully coax out of your actors' glands. This is what happens when you get directors that are considered highly talented at working with actors but never had anyone tell them how to plot and structure a narrative effectively. George Lucas may not be the best at getting naturalistic performances out of his actors, but what makes him really talented is that he can shoot a scene where the protagonist finds the charred and mangled corpses of his parents amid the burned wreckage of his lifelong home, and make the deliberate choice to tell the actor to underplay it and let the editing, cinematography, and score speak for themselves. Most directors wouldn't ever even begin to have that instinct. For someone who gets accused of having no restraint, Lucas probably has more of it than 90% of directors working today. But none of this is John Boyega's fault. He's just doing what he's told to do.
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Jan 4, 2019 23:41
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Yeah, I have to say that as charming as the two leads in TFA were, they do spend 85% of the movie in a state of pure exasperation, which is a bit infectious. Every scene they are either extremely exhilarated or extremely distressed. It plays well off of Han Solo's cool-headedness, but when he's not around it's a bit much.
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Jan 4, 2019 23:57
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As a youngling (4-5) seeing ANH in the theatre when it was released blew my mind. Just a few minutes in with the Star Destroyer scene probably shaped countless lives.
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Jan 4, 2019 23:58
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Colostomy Bag posted:As a youngling (4-5) seeing ANH in the theatre when it was released blew my mind. Just a few minutes in with the Star Destroyer scene probably shaped countless lives. Yeah, see, that's the sort of thing I'm thinking of when I wonder if the sheer spectacle of the movie alone was enough to quell a lot of criticism, because one of the two stories my dad's always enjoyed telling me about seeing movies as a kid is the sheer sense of amazement he got as a 14 year old in 1977 when the star destroyer came onto the screen and kept coming and coming because nobody had ever seen anything like it before (the other was seeing a James Bond triple-bill comprising On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Diamonds Are Forever and Live and Let Die a few years earlier). Obviously movies with that scale are a dime a dozen now. Even the prequel movies had a lot to compete with.
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Jan 5, 2019 01:03
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Wheat Loaf posted:Yeah, see, that's the sort of thing I'm thinking of when I wonder if the sheer spectacle of the movie alone was enough to quell a lot of criticism, because one of the two stories my dad's always enjoyed telling me about seeing movies as a kid is the sheer sense of amazement he got as a 14 year old in 1977 when the star destroyer came onto the screen and kept coming and coming because nobody had ever seen anything like it before (the other was seeing a James Bond triple-bill comprising On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Diamonds Are Forever and Live and Let Die a few years earlier). Hell when that bastard flew on the big silver screen I still wish I was wearing diapers.
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Jan 5, 2019 01:09
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Perhaps some of the young viewers feel some sort of wonder with the new movies as they did in the past. I sometimes wish I hadn't already seen the original movies before I saw the prequel movies in the cinema because when I finally did, they were "just" Star Wars movies to me, if you see what I mean.
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Jan 5, 2019 01:24
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Sometimes it seems like it'd be nice to be 12 again, because that's the age when pop culture is at its best, but it probably wouldn't be worth it.
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Jan 5, 2019 01:38
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Waffles Inc. posted:ANH was incredibly well reviewed, with most people almost not knowing what to say about it, because imagine how goddamn weird it is in a vacuum. Yeah R2-D2 is exactly like Mickey Rooney
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Jan 5, 2019 02:00
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Jewmanji posted:This is a good opportunity to post this, which is example 1,000,000 why Roger Ebert was a treasure: "These are the sorts of movies Disney people should be making..." Granted it's 35 years later, but still 
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Jan 5, 2019 08:42
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