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EvilMerlin posted:Already looking better. Thanks, that’s good to know. My front foot/toes are faced forward after stepping, so both of my feet are faced forward after the cut. I had read about what direction my right foot should be facing before the cut, when it is still the back foot, but not about where it should end up and just assumed it should be forward and that felt the most natural. Should it be pointed outwards at all after stepping forward or is it ok pointing straight ahead?
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Jan 2, 2019 19:11
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rio posted:Thanks, that’s good to know. My front foot/toes are faced forward after stepping, so both of my feet are faced forward after the cut. I had read about what direction my right foot should be facing before the cut, when it is still the back foot, but not about where it should end up and just assumed it should be forward and that felt the most natural. Should it be pointed outwards at all after stepping forward or is it ok pointing straight ahead? Front foot 95% of the time shoudl always be pointing to your opponent/target. Depending on your step where your rear foot position changes.
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Jan 2, 2019 21:40
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EvilMerlin posted:Front foot 95% of the time shoudl always be pointing to your opponent/target. Cool, what’s your opinion before the step? I’ve read between 45 and 90 degrees for the back foot relative to the front foot (before the swing) and that it varies from person to person.
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Jan 2, 2019 22:17
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I'm curious to what you are trying to achieve? Learning to cut bottles? Or use a sword? The latter is nearly impossible in a vacuum.
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Jan 2, 2019 22:38
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ImplicitAssembler posted:I'm curious to what you are trying to achieve? Learning to cut bottles? Or use a sword? The latter is nearly impossible in a vacuum. I’d like to join a HEMA class but it’s not logistically possible right now - I’m a single dad and the only class is over an hour round trip from here on a school night for my daughter. With the time of the class and driving I can’t afford babysitting costs for 3-4 hours 4 or 5 times a month and even if I could I’d feel bad being away that much given how much time we have together during the school week, at least as old as she is now. Rather than do nothing I’m trying to accomplish what I can on my own by just working on basic form and stuff like that - I know that it won’t make me good at using a sword but at least I can be familiar with the stances and try to understand the mechanics as much as I can on my own. Also I have generally never been that interested in physical activities in terms of hobbies - I’m a musician which has me sitting a lot so having a somewhat active hobby is appealing as I get older. I’m not into sports and haven’t really had what I’d call an active hobby so even if it is futile I am just doing what I can.
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Jan 3, 2019 01:20
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Ok, then I would compare to trying to learn to play the cello on your own.
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Jan 3, 2019 02:55
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ImplicitAssembler posted:Ok, then I would compare to trying to learn to play the cello on your own. Yes, I get the point.
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Jan 3, 2019 03:09
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ImplicitAssembler posted:I'm curious to what you are trying to achieve? Learning to cut bottles? Or use a sword? The latter is nearly impossible in a vacuum. ImplicitAssembler posted:Ok, then I would compare to trying to learn to play the cello on your own. What are you trying to achieve with posts like these? rio posted:I’d like to join a HEMA class but it’s not logistically possible right now - I’m a single dad and the only class is over an hour round trip from here on a school night for my daughter. With the time of the class and driving I can’t afford babysitting costs for 3-4 hours 4 or 5 times a month and even if I could I’d feel bad being away that much given how much time we have together during the school week, at least as old as she is now. Rather than do nothing I’m trying to accomplish what I can on my own by just working on basic form and stuff like that - I know that it won’t make me good at using a sword but at least I can be familiar with the stances and try to understand the mechanics as much as I can on my own. Also I have generally never been that interested in physical activities in terms of hobbies - I’m a musician which has me sitting a lot so having a somewhat active hobby is appealing as I get older. I’m not into sports and haven’t really had what I’d call an active hobby so even if it is futile I am just doing what I can. Keep at it. If you can, reach out to people in your area who’d like to start a small group. Watch videos, keep asking for critiques and commentary. Something that may be an option is going to an event once or twice a year. You’ll learn a lot in a small span of time if you can make it to one.
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Jan 3, 2019 05:03
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What would honestly be the problem with learning to play the cello by yourself? Yeah, obviously, it’s gonna be harder than with instruction but yeah sure those are the crappy cards a dude got dealt. I mostly taught myself the mandolin and I’m pretty happy. It’s like mocking someone for doing Rosetta Stone instead of moving to Italy for immersion. Sure that’s a more effective method but not everyone can do that and you’re being lovely harping on that. Maybe we could spend more time being cool sword-friends and less time as judgey douchebags?
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Jan 3, 2019 06:08
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I think what's coming across is similar to learning martial arts by doing just katas vs training against a resisting opponent. It's absolutely possible to learn some of it. Cutting is one of those things. However when it comes to fighting a resisting opponent, the most worthwhile training for it is doing it. Versimilitude's suggestion of doing seminars is good, but still going to be slower and harder going than regular classes with an instructor who can give realtime feedback and with chances to really spar. We should honestly take this to the HEMA thread. 
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Jan 3, 2019 07:00
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Xiahou Dun posted:What would honestly be the problem with learning to play the cello by yourself? Yeah, obviously, it’s gonna be harder than with instruction but yeah sure those are the crappy cards a dude got dealt. I mostly taught myself the mandolin and I’m pretty happy. No, I'm just trying to make clear that it's very hard to become remotely proficient on your own, especially if your coaches are random people on a forum. Mandolin is akin to learning to shoot a gun, if the cello is a sword. Pluck a string and you create a clean note. Cello, well, that's a few hundred hours of practice along with regular instruction. Go to seminars, then maybe go once a month. You simply wont get anywhere by cutting bottles. Worst case scenario, buy one of Guy Windsors courses. At least get some kind of structured programme, although I still don't think you can really learn without direct instruction.
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Jan 3, 2019 07:09
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rio posted:Cool, what’s your opinion before the step? I’ve read between 45 and 90 degrees for the back foot relative to the front foot (before the swing) and that it varies from person to person. When I'm doing cutting practice I'm almost always using the passing step. My rear foot is usually around 40-50 degrees off which allows me the ability to have full rotation of my hips and ground myself properly to use the "human spring". But yes, it does vary. I typically teach it in three parts. 1.) Is the step and your stance comfortable? If it's not, you are doing it wrong. NOTHING you do in martial arts should ever feel "bad" meaning like you are bound up, tight or the body feels out of place. If it does, you are probably doing something wrong. 2.) Do you have the ability to rotate/twist your entire body, from your toes to the shoulders/neck. If not, you are probably doing something wrong. Swinging a sword use the entire body, and while the arms/hands/fingers are doing the actual cutting, the entire body needs to be involved. 3.) Do you have full extension? Meaning can you swing the sword out fully from the top of the strike to it's end. Pulling in your arms and elbows is usually a bad thing... I don't know if I explained it well here. Its easier to show and tell.
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Jan 3, 2019 13:53
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rio posted:I’d like to join a HEMA class but it’s not logistically possible right now - I’m a single dad and the only class is over an hour round trip from here on a school night for my daughter. With the time of the class and driving I can’t afford babysitting costs for 3-4 hours 4 or 5 times a month and even if I could I’d feel bad being away that much given how much time we have together during the school week, at least as old as she is now. Rather than do nothing I’m trying to accomplish what I can on my own by just working on basic form and stuff like that - I know that it won’t make me good at using a sword but at least I can be familiar with the stances and try to understand the mechanics as much as I can on my own. Also I have generally never been that interested in physical activities in terms of hobbies - I’m a musician which has me sitting a lot so having a somewhat active hobby is appealing as I get older. I’m not into sports and haven’t really had what I’d call an active hobby so even if it is futile I am just doing what I can. Sometimes it's just not possible. And you are doing the right thing for you. Just make sure you are not just doing cutting of course. Make sure if you are looking at the German or Italian arts, you understand the distances, the steps, and all the basics as much as you can. These things you can ALWAYS work on on your own. Understanding how YOUR body moves and how it works with the various basics of the sword arts is something that people can SHOW you, but they cannot teach you as every human moves differently than the other. It takes time to even become proficient at this. I still gently caress up my footwork or some of the basics because I don't do swordy stuff full time, and I never will. My life is never going to be full of people that are trying to kill me with a sword. We live in 2019 not 1450 and support ourselves by fighting wars. As was said by others, one of the best things you can do is ask questions like you are. You will get 10 answers from 8 people. Most will probably be right. Some will be loving weeaboo bullshit. But you take that information, compare to the codexes as much as possible and distill it into something you can practice. As was also said, find a local event when you can. The HEMA Alliance calendar is good and has most of the stuff going on for a full year. Find something close, make the plan and GO. If its on the East Coast, I'll probably be there and would easily spend a few hours with you going over the basics. Hell go to Longpoint 2019 at the end of March, more than likely it will be me teaching the Intro to Longsword class, as I've done it at the past 5 Longpoints...
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Jan 3, 2019 14:00
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Everyone here is right, in a way. If you can't get to actual classes because you're being a good father then good on you, you have your priorities straight. It is true that fencing against an opponent is a whole different ball game , so to speak, but if that's not an option then hopefully learning to cut properly and slicing up bottles of water is fun (and I mean this unironically, being a sport fencer I have never tried this and it does look hella fun). Just be prepared to have to start more or less from scratch and possibly un-learn some bad habits when you do manage to fence other people. Keeping calm under pressure, dealing with a target that moves and thinks, and trying to manipulate and trick your opponent is really hard, and I know that if my opponent presses the right buttons all my nice, clean technique goes right out the window  Until then, if your daughter is old enough you should totally see if you can get her a small blunt sword so she can do the moves along with you, I'm sure she would love that 
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Jan 4, 2019 13:11
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Sword Santa was very good to me and I got a super nice jacket and gloves and... Jesus gently caress these things are bulky to pack. Shockingly the padded jacket full of armored supports and the gauntlets made out of un-loving-who-knows-ium don't fit nicely in a duffle bag. I just barely got everything to fit into the largest duffle bag I own, one I specially bought to help me move into this apartment on foot. I don't want to talk about how I got it home. There was a serious debate about it being easier to wear the jacket on the train than pack it. But on the upside! I'm now finally almost kitted out! I'm a feder and some very small things (e.g. I should get a gorget) away from never having to borrow gear again! Yay! Now I can fully and totally have the poo poo kicked out of me (until I learn to kick poo poo back)! Frubgious day and hopefully minimal snicker snack!
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Jan 5, 2019 00:54
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Xiahou Dun posted:Sword Santa was very good to me and I got a super nice jacket and gloves and... Hockey bags. If you really need space, hockey goalie bags
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Jan 5, 2019 02:48
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Whelp. Guess I got more poo poo to buy. I've got a cup, a jacket, gloves that look like they're for handling radioactive materials, heavy leather gloves and a mask. What am I missing? A sword, obviously. A gorget, I want something to protect at least my messed up knee because I like walking*, probably a chest-protector, what am I missing? O and I need back of the neck/over the head covering for the mask. I quit smoking to afford this kit but just listing it is making me want to smoke. Jesus. *I've just been wearing my old brace but I just know it's a matter of time until something goes wrong and I've had my fair share of knee surgery, thank you.
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Jan 5, 2019 03:17
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ImplicitAssembler posted:Hockey bags. If you really need space, hockey goalie bags
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Jan 5, 2019 03:19
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Xiahou Dun posted:Whelp. Guess I got more poo poo to buy. Hard knees are dirt cheap compared to knee surgery.  Same with gorgets and throats.
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Jan 5, 2019 04:50
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Ain’t gotta tell me twice! I had to walk with a cane for a couple years. The red text is from not properly documenting my physical therapy as I tried to climb the three flights of stairs to my apartment. Knee injuries ssssuuuuck. If getting everyone to just never swing at my left leg was an option, I’d take it in an instant. Barring that I want the biggest gently caress off knee protection made by man. I’m not opposed to going into sparring with one leg in a loving M1 Abrams tank. If you got deets on good knee protection let me know.
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Jan 5, 2019 05:04
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Xiahou Dun posted:Ain’t gotta tell me twice! I had to walk with a cane for a couple years. I hear you, I've had to have one knee fixed already myself, and the other will finish tearing any year now. As far as what to wear, depends on what pants you're rocking, really. When I was able to have time to spar I was still rolling in my old SCA articulated kydex 5-lame knees, which were seriously overkill but I had them and they were comfortable. Something similar to these. Neyman's knees in the same ~30 buck price range look good as well, I like having wings on the sides of the knee. I haven't used either of those myself, and the folks who get to do this more often will likely have much better suggestions for you since gear has apparently advanced a lot in the last few years!
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Jan 5, 2019 05:47
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I’m still just rocking generic exercise pants so I’m totally flexible. Gonna run your suggestion by some friends to sanity check it (since they know my sitch better) and then probably get one of those. I really love having two mostly working knees. I’m a real big fan.
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Jan 5, 2019 07:41
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Look up KneePro, those are what many competitive longsworders use. I've heard good things about Neyman knees but Neyman is notoriously bad at shipping things on time. Also get a set of field hockey shin guards and padded fencing pants while you're at it. Some people fence longsword in unpadded pants, but it's not a good idea until you know what the gently caress. Trust me on this.
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Jan 5, 2019 08:48
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The KneePro is great and cheap. Definitely recommend.
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Jan 5, 2019 14:14
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Liquid Communism posted:Neyman's knees in the same ~30 buck price range look good as well, I like having wings on the sides of the knee. 
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Jan 5, 2019 18:20
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If you know any olympic fencer types you should see if your gear fits inside one of these: https://www.leonpaul.com/icarus-wheel-bag.html Mine sometimes gets crammed with 5 weapons, two masks, two lames and a full set of clothing. The best part is that it's got wheels, carrying all that poo poo isn't fun.
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Jan 5, 2019 23:12
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Nektu posted:I havent tried those in particuar, but all the neyman stuff that I tried up to now looks great on the internet and feels super flimsy once you actually have it in your hand. Personally I no longer bother with their stuff I bought their arm and shoulder guards to fit into my SPES Officer Jacker so I can do longsword with it and at least the armguard pieces are fine, I took some rather solid hits without really feeling it. I could post a photo of my current longsword kit, arms and pants are Neyman, jacket is SPES, gloves Leon Paul, legs KneePro+hockey shinguards.
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Jan 6, 2019 00:45
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Ataxerxes posted:I bought their arm and shoulder guards to fit into my SPES Officer Jacker so I can do longsword with it and at least the armguard pieces are fine, I took some rather solid hits without really feeling it. I could post a photo of my current longsword kit, arms and pants are Neyman, jacket is SPES, gloves Leon Paul, legs KneePro+hockey shinguards. Yes please. edit : my school apparently starts the new year by doing 1,000 cuts. I definitely didn’t come back from class and drink wine on the floor before taking a 45 minute shower. (It was actually a great work out and made me think about form in some cool ways after krumphau #250 ; I’m thinking that I should just do this once a month. But also ow) Xiahou Dun fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Jan 6, 2019 |
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Jan 6, 2019 01:21
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Protip : 1,000 cuts is a lot of cuts. Still planning on doing this regularly but ow. Do this but don’t plan doing anything the next day.
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Jan 7, 2019 06:08
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Xiahou Dun posted:Yes please. Yeah, I saw the post about this on Facebook. Crazy bastards. I start all of my advanced classes with 100 cuts.
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Jan 7, 2019 13:49
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Crazy Achmed posted:If you know any olympic fencer types you should see if your gear fits inside one of these: https://www.leonpaul.com/icarus-wheel-bag.html You didn't splurge for the strip bag? Amateur! Olympic fencing bags would not be appropriate for HEMA, because our weapons are only 10 cm longer than the blade of a Regenyai feder. Some manufacturers are getting into the HEMA game though. Absolute Fencing (official sponsor of USA Fencing) is putting out a 54" XL fencing bag. They also brand their other combat sport lines as Absolute Force, which is kinda odd? Now, this is a thing. A shoulder holster for my ref stuff. Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather disperse my cards, coin, pencils, and notepad into 5 different pockets on my blazer. Also, I'm American, so it would look like I'm carrying which is not appropriate. In rules news, there was an emergency meeting for the USFA board to allow the ref commission to write up the new non combativity rules to make them compliant for JOs in February. I don't know how it is with other NGBs, but the USFA doesn't automatically approve FIE rule changes. Best example of this would be the foil bib, which was rolled out over 2 seasons*. While there are some application concerns and the rule itself needs to be written (our rulebook is not a translation of the FIE), the main concern hings on how to handle double disqualification. The FIE rule handles this by world ranking, but I would be surprised if 5% of US fencers are on any of our point lists. * Start of the first season in the following August all national events (i.e. the 7 NACs and Summer Nationals) would require the foil bib. Next season it would be for all sanctioned tournaments.
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Jan 7, 2019 16:19
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BirdOfPlay posted:Now, this is a thing. A shoulder holster for my ref stuff. Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather disperse my cards, coin, pencils, and notepad into 5 different pockets on my blazer. Also, I'm American, so it would look like I'm carrying which is not appropriate. I don't know if this is common practice, the most interesting bit of ref advice I ever got was to put each card in its own pocket, with the black card in the most inconvenient spot so you'll be forced to have time to consider whether you really should to throw it.
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Jan 7, 2019 16:38
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dupersaurus posted:I don't know if this is common practice, the most interesting bit of ref advice I ever got was to put each card in its own pocket, with the black card in the most inconvenient spot so you'll be forced to have time to consider whether you really should to throw it. This is what I do when a ref/judge. I make sure my red flag is hard to get to. This is good advice for any type of judge/ref.
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Jan 7, 2019 17:19
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dupersaurus posted:I don't know if this is common practice, the most interesting bit of ref advice I ever got was to put each card in its own pocket, with the black card in the most inconvenient spot so you'll be forced to have time to consider whether you really should to throw it. That's why I use five pockets. I have a set of nice, plastic cards that I can grab at blindly, but I still keep each one in a separate pocket. My black card is in my inside, left, breast pocket, because I don't feel like I'll need it (still haven't) as opposed to my yellow and red cards. As for my other setup: I keep a notebook in my right inside pocket, some pencils (and occasionally the remote) in my outside breast pocket, and tuck my priority coin in the pocket with my yellow. My avoidance on throwing black cards is that I just don't wanna. My mentor actually has a strong point that you, as a ref, can cause and not cause a lot of poo poo, and, on the subject of ejections, a ref should be aiming to deescalate as much as possible instead of letting the coach/athlete walk through the door that they've opened. I'm actually not sure if he has thrown a black card.Fake edit: maaaaaybe I shouldn't refer to cards just by their color. whoops
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Jan 7, 2019 17:58
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BirdOfPlay posted:That's why I use five pockets. I have a set of nice, plastic cards that I can grab at blindly, but I still keep each one in a separate pocket. My black card is in my inside, left, breast pocket, because I don't feel like I'll need it (still haven't) as opposed to my yellow and red cards. As for my other setup: I keep a notebook in my right inside pocket, some pencils (and occasionally the remote) in my outside breast pocket, and tuck my priority coin in the pocket with my yellow. Yeah I think your black cards are the same as our red flags. Immediate disqualification/ejection?
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Jan 7, 2019 18:16
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EvilMerlin posted:Yeah I think your black cards are the same as our red flags. Is that how HEMA does it? Very soccer. But, yeah, that's how our black cards work out. Yellow cards are warnings, in a sense, and are for minor penalties. Red cards award a touch to the fencer's opponent and, generally, don't lead to expulsion. There's a few different resolutions to a black card: withdrawal, exclusion, and expulsion. Injuries can cause a medical withdraw, which ends the tournament for the fencer, but they remain on the ledgers as if they lost their bout (i.e. their results in the tourney remain valid). This is only, technically a black card. Exclusion strikes a fencer from the event, and their opponent advances to the next round. Results that include a expelled fencer typically list the fencer as "Excluded." Exclusion may or may not also result in an expulsion. Expulsion removes a person (fencer or spectator/coach) from the event area and can be for the remainder of the day or the rest of the tournament if it extends over multiple days. Serious offenses also get kicked up to the NGB (US Fencing for me) to see if longer term punishments are required, such as barring them from future events.
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Jan 7, 2019 18:53
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Ataxerxes posted:I bought their arm and shoulder guards to fit into my SPES Officer Jacker so I can do longsword with it and at least the armguard pieces are fine, I took some rather solid hits without really feeling it. I could post a photo of my current longsword kit, arms and pants are Neyman, jacket is SPES, gloves Leon Paul, legs KneePro+hockey shinguards. However I tried some of their gloves too. They use the same material for them as for their arm guards, only in this case you do not have a heavy jacket below it. I really did not feel comfortable with that. Those knee guards look the same as the gloves: just that 6mm thick very dense foam material and nothing below it. Personally I just feel safer with a real hard shell + padding.
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Jan 7, 2019 20:27
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BirdOfPlay posted:Is that how HEMA does it? Very soccer. But, yeah, that's how our black cards work out. Yellow cards are warnings, in a sense, and are for minor penalties. Red cards award a touch to the fencer's opponent and, generally, don't lead to expulsion. Honestly it depends on who is running the tournament and what scoring system. HEMA, as a whole, doesn't have a standard. Probably never will. My personal favourite is two judges and one ref. Ref in the box with the two fighters. Some people call points against, some for. Thrusts to head or torso are typically 3 points (if clean), thrusts to arms/legs, 1 point. Cuts/Slices to head/neck 3 points, all other areas 1 point (if clean of course). The warning system works like this at some of the bigger events I've done: Verbal warning (usually when people are late with a hit or just a little too brute) Yellow card (when people get a warning and don't listen or repeat offense) this is a mark on the score as a negative point or negative 3 depending on the severity which is under the ref's decision. Red Card (people being dicks), automatic disqualification and removal from the tournament. I've had to issue only one of these in my 9 years as a judge/ref. A guy 6'8" literally repeadedly body slammed a much smaller woman onto her feder. He was given a yellow card the first time and a very stern warning about being more careful with takedowns. The very next move, he grabbed her, tossed her body over his shoulders and right into her crossguard of her feder. Thank goodness she was wearing a good jacket... I red carded him on the spot, and once discussed with the tournament officials, he was booted from the event because he had some some other bogus stuff in other events (I was judging longsword).
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Jan 7, 2019 20:54
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Interesting - I was going to ask what a red or black card (whichever the worst is) would be used for. So it sounds like it’s mainly used for over aggression? How common is that in tournaments?
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Jan 7, 2019 23:33
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rio posted:Interesting - I was going to ask what a red or black card (whichever the worst is) would be used for. So it sounds like it’s mainly used for over aggression? How common is that in tournaments? Two yellows make a red and those are what you mostly see, so just common rule infractions. Straight reds are generally unsportsmanlike behavior and equipment violations, and two of some reds make a black. Straight blacks are super rare and are serious sportsmanship violations. A handy chart https://everything2.com/title/Fencing+penalty+chart
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Jan 8, 2019 02:06
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