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R.A. Salvatore works for a living and so has a correct understanding about economics. Why are you surprised?
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Jan 5, 2019 22:29
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Drizzt Do'urden does not gently caress around
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Jan 5, 2019 22:30
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Skex posted:The problem with your take is that capitalism is an organically emergent phenomenon. Yes the legal framework that has been built around it is flawed but even in places where socialism has been implemented underground capitalist markets pop up. The existence of black markets, grey markets and other underground economies directly contradicts the assertion that capitalism is an artificial top down implemented system. Who said anything about capitalism being an "organic" or "synthetic" phenomenon? That distinction is meaningless, and bringing up the example of "underground markets" suddenly appearing in socialist nations is laughable, due to the simple fact that there isn't a single region in the entire world that has not had its resources or peoples ruthlessly exploited by capitalist entities. w
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Jan 5, 2019 22:30
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Relevant Tangent posted:R.A. Salvatore works for a living and so has a correct understanding about economics. Why are you surprised? Personally I never thought the Republican party could lose the dark elves, so this a surprise.
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Jan 5, 2019 22:30
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white sauce posted:I don’t think merely regulating capitalism is going to solve any of our problems. There is no inherent morality in socialism that will somehow make an action that would benefit one group at the cost of another, unconnected group not be the one people want to take. It is not a magic spell that rewrites how people work, it is an economic system. Meanwhile, regulation allows you to actively prevent abuses of power and set up a framework wherein they do not occur, and are actively disincentivized to the point nobody would be willing to take them. If regulation can't solve a problem, socialism sure as poo poo can't. And I don't think advocating blowing up the whole thing and saying that what comes next will be better cause you like the buzzword shows a very good understanding of actual progress, versus what boils down to an appeal to novelty. porfiria posted:I think Trump is basically correct in his belief that backing down on the wall funding at this point would do catastrophic damage to his standing with his base. Not to say the shutdown going on interminably is great for him either but I think he's basically doing the only thing he can do right now. Thats kind of overthinking it. He's only capable of knowing what the last person who spoke to him told him. Fox told him that his supporters want the wall. SO he knows his supportrers want the wall, and thats all that matters. Every other factor is completely ignored. He currently only understands two things - wall good, and not wall bad, and nothing else is getting through. white sauce posted:Who said anything about capitalism being an "organic" or "synthetic" phenomenon? That distinction is meaningless, and bringing up the example of "underground markets" suddenly appearing in socialist nations is laughable, due to the simple fact that there isn't a single region in the entire world that has not had its resources or peoples ruthlessly exploited by capitalist entities. w Resource scarcity is a fact of existence, and predates capitalism by, oh, about 4 billion years. Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jan 5, 2019 |
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Jan 5, 2019 22:31
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Drunk Theory posted:Personally I never thought the Republican party could lose the dark elves, so this a surprise. They're a matriarchy, I assure that the Drow haven't been voting for Republican all these years.
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Jan 5, 2019 22:31
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InsertPotPun posted:IF the next administration actually does "clean up" and not just...keep the power like Obama did. Or its his last chance to earn a "win" for his supporters who he needs to buy all the stupid poo poo he plans to sell them after this is over. Or he just really wants a wall and is a 5 year old about it.
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Jan 5, 2019 22:32
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Fulchrum posted:There is no inherent morality in socialism that will somehow make an action that would benefit one group at the cost of another, unconnected group not be the one people want to take. I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here, and the thing that confuses me the most is your invocation of the word "morality". quote:It is not a magic spell that rewrites how people work, it is an economic system. Meanwhile, regulation allows you to actively prevent abuses of power and set up a framework wherein they do not occur, and are actively disincentivized to the point nobody would be willing to take them. quote:If regulation can't solve a problem, socialism sure as poo poo can't. quote:And I don't think advocating blowing up the whole thing and saying that what comes next will be better cause you like the buzzword shows a very good understanding of actual progress, versus what boils down to an appeal to novelty.
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Jan 5, 2019 22:38
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https://twitter.com/The_Law_Boy/status/1081257749734977536
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Jan 5, 2019 22:39
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Fulchrum posted:Resource scarcity is a fact of existence, and predates capitalism by, oh, about 4 billion years. Correct, which is why it's foolish to let markets extract and distribute these scarce resources.
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Jan 5, 2019 22:40
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I don't get why people are surprised that a dude who works for a living has Correct Takes. The wealthy people are the ones who are broken and need fixing, not the average American. We're not perfect or whatever but Hillary won by 3 million votes. It's not America that's broken, it's the rich. Any other view is inherently self-defeating, I think.
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Jan 5, 2019 22:41
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Skex posted:in places where socialism has been implemented underground capitalist markets pop up. Unless you mean "black markets exist, ergo socialism bad" because lol buddy weed, concert tickets and Tickle Me Elmos would like a word with you
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Jan 5, 2019 22:53
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white sauce posted:Correct, which is why it's foolish to let markets extract and distribute these scarce resources. "The markets" don't, people do. That's the entire point here. THe market only exists in as much as it explicitly dictates how much value things have, and your entire idea here rests on if the market goes away, those things would no longer have value, instead of their value just being far more nebulous. Meanwhile, the point of regulation is to say that bad things have a cost of gently caress off high dollars, so there's no incentive to gather and attempt to distribute them due to the costs incurred and lack of buyers. This loaf of bread I got has a value of $1.30, according to the market. What you keep failing to realise is that if the market goes away, it still has value in and of itself because its food, and food is required by people.
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Jan 5, 2019 22:58
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Relevant Tangent posted:R.A. Salvatore works for a living and so has a correct understanding about economics. Why are you surprised? fantasy authors tend toward the reactionary for whatever reason, and salvatore's works have the additional two knocks against them of 1. being licensed tie-in fantasy fiction 2. his breakout character being The One Good Black Guy forever fighting against the rightful hate people have for those who look like him it would have been incredibly unsurprising to learn he was conservative, under the circumstances.
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Jan 5, 2019 23:00
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:fantasy authors tend toward the reactionary for whatever reason... Don't use Ayn Rand to make an assumption about all fantasy authors.
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Jan 5, 2019 23:01
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mod sassinator posted:Don't use Ayn Rand to make an assumption about all fantasy authors. Ayn Rand wrote fantasy? I thought she considered all of her work to be grounded, in spite of it all being really, really implausible and stupid.
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Jan 5, 2019 23:03
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It's a joke. 
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Jan 5, 2019 23:04
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Fulchrum posted:"The markets" don't, people do. That's the entire point here. THe market only exists in as much as it explicitly dictates how much value things have, and your entire idea here rests on if the market goes away, those things would no longer have value, instead of their value just being far more nebulous. Meanwhile, the point of regulation is to say that bad things have a cost of gently caress off high dollars, so there's no incentive to gather and attempt to distribute them due to the costs incurred and lack of buyers. this post needs to be preserved for posterity as a masterwork of motivated reasoning this is an absolute rat's nest of unexamined assumptions, unsupported assertions, and straight-up falsehoods that cannot be untangled without having to sit the bearer down to explain the whole subject from concept one, that being "what makes contracts enforceable" "explicitly dictates how much value things have" christ
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Jan 5, 2019 23:06
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https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1081667437173637121 Pretty good strategy to keep the pressure on
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Jan 5, 2019 23:06
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somewhere, in their tower, the Marketlords proclaim "BREAD SHALL BE A BUCK THIRTY" thus it is made so
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Jan 5, 2019 23:07
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:fantasy authors tend toward the reactionary for whatever reason, and salvatore's works have the additional two knocks against them of 1. being licensed tie-in fantasy fiction 2. his breakout character being The One Good Black Guy forever fighting against the rightful hate people have for those who look like him I always thought SciFi authors were reactionary, fantasy authors are more likely weird sex pests
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Jan 5, 2019 23:07
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Skex posted:The problem with your take is that capitalism is an organically emergent phenomenon. Yes the legal framework that has been built around it is flawed but even in places where socialism has been implemented underground capitalist markets pop up. The existence of black markets, grey markets and other underground economies directly contradicts the assertion that capitalism is an artificial top down implemented system. Markets are "organically emergent", not capitalism. Socialism is not a denial of markets.
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Jan 5, 2019 23:08
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Skex posted:Yes capitalism is flawed and left to its own devices is extremely destructive, then again the same thing can be said regarding fire, yet no one would suggest that we should outlaw it. I feel like this analogy isn't supporting your argument as much as you may think it is. 
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Jan 5, 2019 23:08
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:somewhere, in their tower, the Marketlords proclaim "BREAD SHALL BE A BUCK THIRTY" I mean yeah, price fixing is pretty common unfortunately
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Jan 5, 2019 23:08
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Unoriginal Name posted:I always thought SciFi authors were reactionary, fantasy authors are more likely weird sex pests I kind of liked the Legend of The Seeker TV show but oh man, the books 
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Jan 5, 2019 23:12
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Fulchrum posted:"The markets" don't, people do. That's the entire point here. THe market only exists in as much as it explicitly dictates how much value things have, and your entire idea here rests on if the market goes away, those things would no longer have value, instead of their value just being far more nebulous. Meanwhile, the point of regulation is to say that bad things have a cost of gently caress off high dollars, so there's no incentive to gather and attempt to distribute them due to the costs incurred and lack of buyers. Merely regulating capitalism isn't going to solve any of the massive problems we are currently facing. We have to do away with the archaic binary concepts of supply and demand and even resource scarcity if we are to survive the 21st century. People deserve to have access to resources like clean water, food, shelter, healthcare and education without needing to interact with a market. We are currently living in a world that is only letting those that sit at the top of the racial hierarchy have access to these things. We need to start using technological innovations to benefit broad swathes of people instead of enriching giant corporations. We can fight climate change and have a better system that allows individuals to fulfill their potential at the same time. To tie this back to my original argument, we simply don't have time to shake our heads and go "well, we're capitalists, that's just the way it is".
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Jan 5, 2019 23:12
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Fulchrum posted:"The markets" don't, people do. That's the entire point here. THe market only exists in as much as it explicitly dictates how much value things have, and your entire idea here rests on if the market goes away, those things would no longer have value, instead of their value just being far more nebulous. Meanwhile, the point of regulation is to say that bad things have a cost of gently caress off high dollars, so there's no incentive to gather and attempt to distribute them due to the costs incurred and lack of buyers. I've been a fan of your bad posting for some years now, but this is 
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Jan 5, 2019 23:14
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Dave Grool posted:I mean yeah, price fixing is pretty common unfortunately that there is a special term for what happens when people get together to explicitly dictate how much value things have is your first hint that it is not, in fact, the market's function. the idea that what socialists seek is to overthrow the Grand Marketlords, and in their place raise up a new dark master, who shall abolish the concept of objective value forevermore is strangely heartwarming, because it suggests Fulchrum has been living in the subjective socialist hellscape of his nightmares for his entire life without realizing it
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Jan 5, 2019 23:16
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https://twitter.com/adamcbest/status/1081337027495448576 We need to just stop letting Manchin caucus with the dems
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Jan 5, 2019 23:16
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papa horny michael posted:Most of the older scif/fantasy writers out from the midwest are some form of socialist. Did people think R.A.Salvatore was something else because of the violence in his work? Nah, but there are some real chuddy SF/F writers out there like Goodkind and OSC who set the expectation. Plus the whole Sad Puppies thing.
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Jan 5, 2019 23:16
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On the subject of taxes. Originally posted this in the trade thread: The Trump Tax Cut: Even Worse Than You’ve Heard https://nyti.ms/2H2rvYL Look at that reinvested income vs dividends graph in there. gently caress. Also it's foreign wealthy getting most of the benefit. A reminder if taxes on the rich can be raised hit those sovereign wealth funds with US assets too.
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Jan 5, 2019 23:21
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:that there is a special term for what happens when people get together to explicitly dictate how much value things have is your first hint that it is not, in fact, the market's function. The most infuriating part of arguing with these market proponents is when they insist that we can't just destroy the markets and not have a completely new and fully functioning system ready right after they're gone!
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Jan 5, 2019 23:22
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Easy Diff posted:What do command economies have to with socialism? People always conflate the two. No I mean that people will engage in trade period, look at every mmo ever, look at every human society ever. We either create laws that regulate it effectively or it will move outside of the law. And socialism is going to be a command economy system, because someone has to decide how resources and efforts are allocated to what. Whether that is determined by a single individual, a committee of experts or through popular referendum. The problems that capitalism suffers from are the same that every system suffers from, concentration of power leads to corruption as those who have power use that power for their own enrichment and to secure and cement their position. To address these problems one must first recognize the source of those problems which are inherent in human behavior. We evolved in a competitive environment, nay a brutally competitive environment. There is a popular belief in a false nobility of nature, this strange idea that human beings are somehow uniquely awful animals because we destroy anything that competes with us for resources. That we are the only creatures who engage in casual cruelty. A ridiculous assertion that is easily falsified by watching the behavior of a house cat playing with a bug. I mean seriously plants engage in chemical warfare, plains are the result of the millions of years of brutal slow motion warfare between grass and trees. See any invasive species and how they destroy native environments. If you get within reach of a wild lion unless it views you as a threat it will attack you, that's its instinct, just like if you run from a dog it will loving chase you. That's just how it's wired. The thing is that as much as we like to pretend that we are different somehow we evolved in this same environment and we have been extremely successful in it. You are as deluded as the conservatives who believe that people would just spontaneously create a utopian paradise if government would just get out of their business if you think that capitalism is the problem rather than human behavior. Skex fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jan 5, 2019 |
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Jan 5, 2019 23:22
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Jesus christ, read a book.
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Jan 5, 2019 23:24
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Skex posted:Sir Francis Galton on why we need to castrate anyone suspected of carrying the Irish taint the appeal to nature was a lovely defense when your kind were trotting it out to defend segregation and it's not getting any smarter when you use it to defend drowning billions in boiling seawater
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Jan 5, 2019 23:27
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Drizzt and Gritty should share mascot duties.
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Jan 5, 2019 23:28
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Skex posted:We evolved in a competitive environment, nay a brutally competitive environment. There is a popular belief in a false nobility of nature, this strange idea that human beings are somehow uniquely awful animals because we destroy anything that competes with us for resources. That we are the only creatures who engage in casual cruelty. A ridiculous assertion that is easily falsified by watching the behavior of a house cat playing with a bug. You do realize that this "nature red in tooth and claw" view is largely a relic of the Victorian era? The more modern view of biology is that only through mutualistic cooperation did complex life forms like eukaryotes arise. The chloroplasts inside of plant cells and their mitochondria are their own separate life forms and have their own DNA and reproductive cycles. Similarly, all the animal species we see also adapted and radiated due to the fact that they were able to create beneficial relationships. Complex life forms in this planet are all mutualistic chimeras. white sauce fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Jan 5, 2019 |
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Jan 5, 2019 23:29
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the appeal to nature was a lovely defense when your kind were trotting it out to defend segregation and it's not getting any smarter when you use it to defend drowning billions in boiling seawater Don't replace my comments with something that I didn't write you disingenuous rear end.
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Jan 5, 2019 23:30
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Skex posted:No I mean that people will engage in trade period, look at every mmo ever, look at every human society ever. We either create laws that regulate it effectively or it will move outside of the law. Wherein Skex outs themself as an anti-science mystic.
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Jan 5, 2019 23:30
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Google Butt posted:What percentage of them will still vote for trump None. Northern VA is pretty solidly blue. Even with the gerrymander.
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Jan 5, 2019 23:32
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