HorrificExistence posted:

nice actual islamophobe dude, i guess having an ethnically exclusive state founded on nationalism is more fascist then having a vibrant diverse society where you have to pay a tax on liquor and cant charge interest

LeoMarr posted:

HorrificExistence posted:

No, they are the one who called advocating against secularism "fascism."

LeoMarr posted:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Azerbaijani_coup_d%27%E9tat_attempt

LeoMarr posted:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Azerbaijani_coup_d%27%E9tat_attempt

HorrificExistence posted:

nice actual islamophobia dude, i guess having an ethnically exclusive state founded on nationalism is less fascist than having a vibrant diverse society where you have to pay a tax on liquor and cant charge interest.

Ardennes posted:

The MHP was very much its own thing though and a bit outside the traditional CHP v religious divide.

Btw, violent suppression of the Kurds goes back to the initial pogroms of the mid-1920s. This is an ongoing battle.

HorrificExistence posted:

nice actual islamophobia dude, i guess having an ethnically exclusive state founded on nationalism is less fascist than having a vibrant diverse society where you have to pay a tax on liquor and cant charge interest. Replacing traditional islamic progressivism with a rabid sectarianism in order to "modernize" is why turkey is hosed up today.

Cat Mattress posted:

Turkey's hosed up; but I'd still rather live there than in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. "Traditional progressivism" is an oxymoron.

quote:

The experience of Jews in the Ottoman Empire is particularly significant because the region "provided a principle place of refuge for Jews driven out of western Europe by massacres and persecution".

HorrificExistence posted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire


When you are more tolerant than Europe but you get compared to Saudi Arabia because mosques exist??!?!?

AFancyQuestionMark posted:

Ottoman Empire? That's a genocidal imperial power that forcefully stole the region from its bliss under the most pluralistic state to ever exist. What's that? I mean Rome, of course. It's clear, without a single doubt, that the Roman Empire was the model of an enlightened society able to facilitate the peaceful coexistence of the biggest multitude of ethnic groups in history, all living under the same banner and benefiting from the highest form of moral and democratic government.

It is indisputable that the fall of Constantinople is the singular moment in the region's history that can be definitely regarded as a tipping point - the transition from civilization to barbarism, from centuries of peace to centuries of sectarian and ethnic strife perpetrated by self-interested empires of the worst sort. It is clear then that any regional policy that purports to chart a course towards truly peaceful and multi-cultural Middle East must first envisage the transfer of Constaniople to its rightful owner - the only legitimate successor to the Roman Empire - the EU.

AFancyQuestionMark posted:

It is clear then that any regional policy that purports to chart a course towards truly peaceful and multi-cultural Middle East must first envisage the transfer of Constaniople to its rightful owner - the only legitimate successor to the Roman Empire - the EU.

Famous op-ed contributor Recep Tayyip Erdogan posted:

President Trump made the right call to withdraw from Syria. The United States withdrawal, however, must be planned carefully and performed in cooperation with the right partners to protect the interests of the United States, the international community and the Syrian people. Turkey, which has NATO’s second largest standing army, is the only country with the power and commitment to perform that task.

In 2016, Turkey became the first country to deploy ground combat troops to fight the so-called Islamic State in Syria. Our military incursion severed the group’s access to NATO’s borders and impeded their ability to carry out terror attacks in Turkey and Europe.

Unlike coalition operations in Raqqa and Mosul, which relied heavily on airstrikes that were carried out with little or no regard for civilian casualties, Turkish troops and fighters of the Free Syrian Army went door to door to root out insurgents in Al Bab, a former stronghold of the so-called Islamic State.

Our approach left the city’s core infrastructure largely intact and made it possible for life to return to normal within days. Today, children are back at school, a Turkish-funded hospital treats the sick, and new business projects create jobs and bolster the local economy. This stable environment is the only cure for terrorism.

Turkey is committed to defeating the so-called Islamic State and other terrorist groups in Syria, because the Turkish people are all too familiar with the threat of violent extremism. In 2003, when I became prime minister, coordinated attacks by Al Qaeda claimed dozens of lives in Turkey.

More recently, the so-called Islamic State terrorists targeted our citizens, our way of life and the inclusive, moderate worldview that our civilization represents. A few years back, the terrorist group called me “treacherous Satan.” We saw the horror in the faces of thousands of Christians and Yazidis, who sought refuge in Turkey when these terrorists came for them in Syria and Iraq.

I say this again: There will be no victory for the terrorists. Turkey will continue to do what it must to ensure its own safety and the well-being of the international community.

Militarily speaking, the so-called Islamic State has been defeated in Syria. Yet we are deeply concerned that some outside powers may use the organization’s remnants as an excuse to meddle in Syria’s internal affairs.

A military victory against the terrorist group is a mere first step. The lesson of Iraq, where this terrorist group was born, is that premature declarations of victory and the reckless actions they tend to spur create more problems than they solve. The international community cannot afford to make the same mistake again today.

Turkey proposes a comprehensive strategy to eliminate the root causes of radicalization. We want to ensure that citizens do not feel disconnected from government, terrorist groups do not get to prey on the grievances of local communities and ordinary people can count on a stable future.

The first step is to create a stabilization force featuring fighters from all parts of Syrian society. Only a diverse body can serve all Syrian citizens and bring law and order to various parts of the country. In this sense, I would like to point out that we have no argument with the Syrian Kurds.

Under wartime conditions, many young Syrians had no choice but to join the P.Y.D./Y.P.G., the Syrian branch of the P.K.K., that Turkey and the United States consider a terrorist organization. According to Human Rights Watch, the Y.P.G. militants have violated international law by recruiting children.

Following the United States withdrawal from Syria, we will complete an intensive vetting process to reunite child soldiers with their families and include all fighters with no links to terrorist organizations in the new stabilization force.

Ensuring adequate political representation for all communities is another priority. Under Turkey’s watch, the Syrian territories that are under the control of the Y.P.G. or the so-called Islamic State will be governed by popularly elected councils. Individuals with no links to terrorist groups will be eligible to represent their communities in local governments.

Local councils in predominantly Kurdish parts of northern Syria will largely consist of the Kurdish community’s representatives whilst ensuring that all other groups enjoy fair political representation. Turkish officials with relevant experience will advise them on municipal affairs, education, health care and emergency services.

Turkey intends to cooperate and coordinate our actions with our friends and allies. We have been closely involved in the Geneva and Astana processes, and are the sole stakeholder that can work simultaneously with the United States and Russia. We will build on those partnerships to get the job done in Syria.

It is time for all stakeholders to join forces to end the terror unleashed by the Islamic State, an enemy of Islam and Muslims around the world, and to preserve Syria’s territorial integrity. Turkey is volunteering to shoulder this heavy burden at a critical time in history. We are counting on the international community to stand with us.

Crazycryodude posted:

This but unironically and also the legitimate successor is not the EU, but Moscow, the Third Rome. Please do not @ me with any denying the moral superiority of the Moscow Patriarchate, Papists get out, thank you.

Sinteres posted:

What an obvious lie:

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1082379122360401920

enraged_camel posted:

i didnt know that was a turkish saying

Sinteres posted:

Man Pompeo's such an unbelievably cynical sack of poo poo:

https://twitter.com/nahaltoosi/status/1082381566846877697

Sinteres posted:

Man Pompeo's such an unbelievably cynical sack of poo poo:

https://twitter.com/nahaltoosi/status/1082381566846877697

steinrokkan posted:

The vibrancy of the Ottoman Empire was too much for some to handle, for example plenty of Armenians just disappeared in puff of smoke as they were exposed to the sheer radiance of Ottoman love. And they were by no means the only ones, but that's a low cost to pay for the ideal society.

HorrificExistence posted:

Wow, we've been over this. This would not have happened if "westernizers" did not introduce nationalism,

crimea posted:

It's anti-imperialist to advocate a new resurgent Hellenic State to invade Northern Cyprus and finally defeat the Turkish Cypriots and their UN running dogs.

Grape posted:

Greece, Turkey, and the UK all need to be drop kicked off the island both in law and person, some truly neutral third party (larger UN presence maybe) could stay on to reassure the Turkish Cypriots that unification will stay chill. And at first it should be a federated state, and you can kind of gradually melt the border over the years as people increasingly move across the lines for everything from jobs to homes. Plus all the immigrants who don't give a crap what the two indigenous peoples are slapping each-other for and just want to bus tables for gross British tourists.

Problem is getting the Greek Cypriots to be relaxed over federation, and the biggest problem is lol Erdogan ain't ever removing Turkish troops from Cyprus as long as he lives.

LeoMarr posted:

Turkish troops can leave once the greek cypriots leave their bodies for good

Savy Saracen salad posted:

The YPG and the PKK have a long history of cooperating with tyrants in the region and in the past acted as informers for the Mukhabarat of the baath regimes. early during the initial protests they were basically hired thugs, infiltrating protests in civilian cloth and arresting prominent activists and handing them to the airforce intelligence. It is not surprising for me that westerners in this forum would engage in the most extreme mental gymnastics to defend the PKK and th YPG. Westerners have a tendency of supporting or feeling kinship with collectivist ethno nationalistic movementS and since they are fighting Sunni Syrian Arabs ( whom westerners automatically label as terrorists with a broad brush, 100% alt right mentality) they get bonus points for fighting those terrorist Sunni Arabs. I have worked with the UNHCR and various organisations on Syria trying to save and resettle Syrian activists and one if the most common terrors they recounted to me was the YPG grabbing activists from their bed and stuffing them in microbusses in the middle of the night, never to be seen or heard from again. And all of this happens after they promised those activists safety after fleeing regime territory. The bulk of all those stories was way before the battle of Kobane and the rise of daesh when colonel Riad Al Assad still had a say in the FSA.

In short a thousand " gently caress you" to anyone whom supports the YPG or PKK