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Ok I watched the first episode of OOO and lol yeah it seems right up my alley and more "Showa-y" than Zi-O felt.
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Jan 7, 2019 21:45
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:Ok I watched the first episode of OOO and lol yeah it seems right up my alley and more "Showa-y" than Zi-O felt.
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Jan 7, 2019 22:18
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PMush Perfect posted:OOO isn't the best Kamen Rider, but I'd say it's the most archetypal/gateway? A good show with good characters that just barely misses the mark on living up to its potential. That sums up almost every recent KR to some degree, and if you don't like OOO, the genre probably isn't for you. Yeah I'm old as dirt when it comes to tokusatsu (I watched english subbed Go Ranger on the Japanese channel in San Francisco in '76) and Kamen Rider was seen in snippets by me here and there. Newer Toku shows are a lot more flashy and toy based, but at the same time I know that if a lot of the inexpensive electronics, good plastics, and 3D rendering were available back in the 70s and 80s the shows would have had more toys then as well. I know not all of the shows are going to appease me, but they aren't for me, they are for 6 year old kids in Japan so I take it as it is.
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Jan 7, 2019 22:30
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PMush Perfect posted:OOO isn't the best Kamen Rider, but I'd say it's the most archetypal/gateway? A good show with good characters that just barely misses the mark on living up to its potential. That sums up almost every recent KR to some degree, and if you don't like OOO, the genre probably isn't for you. That's a pretty wide degree if you're counting ghost and wizard. Interestingly, despite just missing the potential OOO's finale did leave me satisfied. It's a good series.
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Jan 7, 2019 22:54
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They DID say "almost."
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Jan 7, 2019 22:59
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OOOs is funky because IIRC, they had a huge rear end earthquake during taping so they switched stuff up to make it brighter and friendlier for kids since earthquakes are scary as poo poo.
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Jan 8, 2019 00:57
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Off the top of my head: W OOO Fourze not wizard not gaim Drive not ghost Ex-Aid and arguably Build.
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Jan 8, 2019 00:59
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I still say Gaim is a bigger step in the right direction compared to Wizard and Ghost, mostly due to the acting being top notch in my opinion. Shame about the actual story not being the best for it, but at the time, I felt it to be pretty enjoyable.
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Jan 8, 2019 01:39
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coconono posted:OOOs is funky because IIRC, they had a huge rear end earthquake during taping so they switched stuff up to make it brighter and friendlier for kids since earthquakes are scary as poo poo. I think you're thinking of them retooling Fourze in production following the earthquake/tsunami
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Jan 8, 2019 01:46
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:I think you're thinking of them retooling Fourze in production following the earthquake/tsunami No, I think OOO had a bit of a tonal shift since the tsunami happened during it, and said tsunami affected the pre-production of Fourze because they wanted a happy series to make the kids happy.
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Jan 8, 2019 01:47
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PMush Perfect posted:Off the top of my head: Ghost is the only show I feel was so bad it didn't have potential to live up to. Gaim, Wizard, and Build are all shows I'd probably only suggest people watch after being prefaced with a warning. Drive, Fourze, Ex-Aid and OOO are all pretty safe to just jump into and see if they're interesting, and then W is just a must-watch for everyone. And then as always if a show looks interesting or if the suits look cool then 100% it doesn't hurt to give a show a try. PMush Perfect posted:if you don't like OOO, the genre probably isn't for you.
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Jan 8, 2019 01:56
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Potsticker posted:Ghost is the only show I feel was so bad it didn't have potential to live up to. Gaim, Wizard, and Build are all shows I'd probably only suggest people watch after being prefaced with a warning. Drive, Fourze, Ex-Aid and OOO are all pretty safe to just jump into and see if they're interesting, and then W is just a must-watch for everyone. Build can be jumped into pretty safely with a note about it's pacing in the last third. Gaim can be watched by prefacing it as a SMT series if it was also Kamen Rider. Wizard just needs to be one long clip show/abridged series to maximize the worth. Ghost is irredeemable.
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Jan 8, 2019 02:00
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Gaim having a very SMT-esque story is the opposite of one of its issues. Having a high-profile writer deliver a mediocre to poor story with horrible use of the dance gangs, fruit, locks and samurai themes which never end up fitting together and the most boring monster suits through the majority of episodes are more of what I was thinking. Also a terrible, terrible looking main belt.
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Jan 8, 2019 02:13
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I think Build's pacing issues are basically solved when you can binge it, and it's only 6ish episodes of filler anyway in a series that otherwise has incredible plot momentum.
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Jan 8, 2019 02:15
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I can't speak to binging Build, but watching it week-to-week it felt like we got the same story beats over and over again, like the whole show was very cyclictic. Oh no, Sento / Banjo become unsure of themselves and need the other to get them out of their funk! Stalk has betrayed his new allies and has moved on to another villain who he's totally not going to betray like the last ones! Even though the villains totally cheated after losing the last tournament for sure they're going to abide by the rules for this tournament. I feel like they wrote episodes and plot for 1/3rd of a show. Now, that being said Sento and Banjo are fabulous characters with great performances by the actors behind them. And that's not to poo poo on the rest of the cast who were great as well. I think the show was quite good and enjoyed it a lot. Good karate, good bugmen.
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Jan 8, 2019 02:25
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Potsticker posted:Gaim having a very SMT-esque story is the opposite of one of its issues. Having a high-profile writer deliver a mediocre to poor story with horrible use of the dance gangs, fruit, locks and samurai themes which never end up fitting together and the most boring monster suits through the majority of episodes are more of what I was thinking. Also a terrible, terrible looking main belt. I feel like Gen Urobuchi was unprepared to reconcile his vision of the series and his typical writing style with the realities of how a toy-driven series like Kamen Rider is made, and they butt heads at every turn.
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Jan 8, 2019 02:51
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Waffleman_ posted:I feel like Gen Urobuchi was unprepared to reconcile his vision of the series and his typical writing style with the realities of how a toy-driven series like Kamen Rider is made, and they butt heads at every turn. I feel like Urobuchi isn't a good writer and the times he hits (Madoka, S1 Thunderbolt Fantasy) are in minority compared to the misses. But maybe that's being too unfair to just unilaterally call him bad because sometimes there are good characters or scenes or just story potential and its just missteps along the way or taking the entire thing as a whole where he falls apart. Just looking at Thunderbolt Fantasy in comparison it felt like he really understood the show genre he was writing for. Like even though I didn't think S2 was very good, (it wasn't terrible either, but on the lower end of mediocre) it was still not very good in context of a wuxia fantasy story.
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Jan 8, 2019 03:02
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Yeah, I've definitely grown a bit weary of Urobuchi in the last couple years. I literally couldn't finish the first of the three Godzilla movies he did because it was so loving godawful.
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Jan 8, 2019 03:21
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build has flaws sure but it also has "drat right i am" and that's the sickest poo poo in toku history
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Jan 8, 2019 03:29
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Potsticker posted:Gaim having a very SMT-esque story is the opposite of one of its issues. Having a high-profile writer deliver a mediocre to poor story with horrible use of the dance gangs, fruit, locks and samurai themes which never end up fitting together and the most boring monster suits through the majority of episodes are more of what I was thinking. Also a terrible, terrible looking main belt. 1. Boring hero carried by an excellent rival and villains. 2. Spectacular-looking midseason upgrade and a completely underwhelming final one. 3. Props and suits visibly falling apart by the end of the series. 4. Really good music. 5. Story had potential. 6. Don't watch the last episode, it's worthless and terrible.
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Jan 8, 2019 03:45
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The next Kamen Rider season written by Butcher will be great as long as they let him set it in old timey China
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Jan 8, 2019 04:10
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PMush Perfect posted:6. Don't watch the last episode, it's worthless and terrible. Ah the W issue.
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Jan 8, 2019 04:17
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showing Shotaro operating alone is great. The cop out is less great but still kinda sweet.
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Jan 8, 2019 04:20
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DoctorWhat posted:showing Shotaro operating alone is great. The cop out is less great but still kinda sweet. I already got to see shotaro working alone. It was the hypest part of the utopia fight.
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Jan 8, 2019 04:23
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I already got to see shotaro working alone. It was the hypest part of the utopia fight. the movie rules but that was a fight. Shotaro doing the day-to-day, living with grief, underpowered and dealing not with an evil conspiracy but with ordinary shithead teens, is a bit different from Kamen Rider Adventure 2 Double.
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Jan 8, 2019 04:27
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DoctorWhat posted:the movie rules but that was a fight. Shotaro doing the day-to-day, living with grief, underpowered and dealing not with an evil conspiracy but with ordinary shithead teens, is a bit different from Kamen Rider Adventure 2 Double. 
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Jan 8, 2019 04:44
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PMush Perfect posted:No, the problem there is that they half-assed it. It weakened the impact and made it so that W will probably never show up in another crossover again because somebody has to be a good person and take care of his wife instead of playing Karate Bugmen. that wasn't double. philip's actor is permanently unavailable because he became a big star, not because his wife was sick.
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Jan 8, 2019 06:57
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I've got around 6 episodes into OOO now. The show is pretty fun, and the kaijin designs and suits are really great. I find it neat that Uva's buckle is pretty much the same shape as the original Rider's from the Ishonomori series. Are Rider series' still running over 40 episodes these days? Most series in Japan seem to be ~24 episodes now.
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Jan 8, 2019 06:59
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:that wasn't double. philip's actor is permanently unavailable because he became a big star, not because his wife was sick. GATOS Y VATOS posted:I've got around 6 episodes into OOO now. The show is pretty fun, and the kaijin designs and suits are really great. I find it neat that Uva's buckle is pretty much the same shape as the original Rider's from the Ishonomori series. Are Rider series' still running over 40 episodes these days? Most series in Japan seem to be ~24 episodes now.
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Jan 8, 2019 07:08
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PMush Perfect posted:Well, okay, they still should have killed him off for closure. i agree, but they had no way of foretelling his future success.
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Jan 8, 2019 07:09
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They've also already brought back just Shotaro as Joker in heisei v showa
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Jan 8, 2019 07:15
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:Yeah I'm old as dirt when it comes to tokusatsu (I watched english subbed Go Ranger on the Japanese channel in San Francisco in '76) and Kamen Rider was seen in snippets by me here and there. Newer Toku shows are a lot more flashy and toy based, but at the same time I know that if a lot of the inexpensive electronics, good plastics, and 3D rendering were available back in the 70s and 80s the shows would have had more toys then as well. I know not all of the shows are going to appease me, but they aren't for me, they are for 6 year old kids in Japan so I take it as it is. Incidentally, you might want to check out Kamen Rider Amazons at some point. I haven't watched the full series yet, but it's a lot different from standard Rider shows. It's not toyetic at all, which is a breath of fresh air. One warning, though, that show is brutal.
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Jan 8, 2019 07:16
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Potsticker posted:Ghost is the only show I feel was so bad it didn't have potential to live up to. Ghost almost seemed to be going somewhere after the first 10 - 12 episodes and then it just kinda shat itself.
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Jan 8, 2019 07:21
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i still like the brief period when specter kept showing up to beat the poo poo out of takeru whenever he transformed.
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Jan 8, 2019 07:30
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I don't get the hate for Gaim. I really liked it. I liked how insane it was. I liked them showing Kouta growing with his powers. I liked the original ambiguity of Tokatora and some of his group and how that fed into Michi's fall. Hell I liked selfish Sid. Spoiler alert: I liked how they killed a number of their friends and in hindsight I loved how batshit the scaling was. We went from a kid trying to find his way in the world (even after getting powers) after breaking with "dance" groups to "I'm a god and I'll take the dimension invading plants to a new planet with my no longer dead girlfriend". Fruitbasket was bad though. Kachidoki was awesome. Kaitou was great but really annoying at the slightly after beginning to midway point. "I'm strong! Strength matters!" *gets his poo poo kicked in* repeat every episode until his final upgrade. But I would probably never suggest it as a first series due to the overbearing fruit theme. That really needed some getting used to. And it was a bit chaotic. Probably of note, I was unfamiliar with Gen before Gaim so I had no expectations going into the season. I'm wondering though why some would suggest OOO's over Double. Both seasons are my favorites, I'm just curious what makes OOO'S easier to suggest to start with.
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Jan 8, 2019 08:12
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the whole concept of dance gangs that immediately transitioned into super suit battles was very silly and didn't work well. if they were so willing to beat each other up after transforming why wouldn't they have gotten into normal street fights beforehand? it was originally supposed to be feuding street gangs and it shows.
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Jan 8, 2019 09:36
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Gaim definitely struggles with the writer's ideas vs. the toyetic aspect of Kamen Rider, and ultimately is a lesser product for it, but it does have some really good moments and characters (that, sadly does not include its protagonist, who has a whole one episode where he's interesting and it's the first) . The ending is...debatable in terms of quality, and then it has an epilogue that was blatantly forced by executives, and that does overall hurt the quality of the show, but I think it was fine. Not amazing, probably on the lower-end of Heisei Riders, but still watchable. Definitely a better show than Ghost or Wizard which shouldn't be watched at all.
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Jan 8, 2019 13:12
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I liked Gaim a lot while I was watching it, but thinking back to that show, I feel like it would have been much stronger if Micchy died somewhere around the halfway point. He was so, so terrible, and he only got worse. I get that a lot of that was intentional, but after a certain point he was so awful that he dragged the entire show down with him.
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Jan 8, 2019 13:29
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gaim sux
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Jan 8, 2019 14:02
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Gaim is fine if you accept in your heart that Urobuchi wanted to make a live-action Shin Megami Tensei, but got handed Kamen Rider, instead.
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Jan 8, 2019 14:11
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