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LatwPIAT posted:1: "Battle rifle" is a dumb neologism and I will not hear of it! Jobbo_Fett posted:*awkwardly waiting for someone to extol the virtues of the Viper*  What virtues?
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Jan 9, 2019 00:16
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FrangibleCover posted:Consider the following: If a full power select fire rifle is a "Battle Rifle" then you get to call the intermediate one a "Combat Carbine". 
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Jan 9, 2019 00:33
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Comrade Gorbash posted:Also resistance to battle rifle as a term is silly. Submachine gun was a marketing term and assault rifle is a propaganda term, and both were coined after the weapons they describe were developed and put into service. They stuck because they were useful descriptive categories. The only thing that makes battle rifle different is that the recognizing the usefulness of that categorization happened later in the existence of the things. I don't like it because: a) What military rifle isn't for battle? As a descriptive term it's kind of awkward. b) I'm familiar with the German-language tradition here and I won't accept that the Sturmgewehr 57 isn't an assault rifle.
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Jan 9, 2019 00:34
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you ever seen a kinda balding single guy, with a gut, in his late 30s or early 40s who's almost given up but still wants to hit the clubs? that's that in airplane form.
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Jan 9, 2019 00:34
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Jobbo_Fett posted:*awkwardly waiting for someone to extol the virtues of the Viper* I thought you were talking about the F-16 and went "huh"? So thanks for showing me this.
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Jan 9, 2019 00:37
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 LatwPIAT posted:I don't like it because:
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Jan 9, 2019 00:37
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Cyrano4747 posted:you ever seen a kinda balding single guy, with a gut, in his late 30s or early 40s who's almost given up but still wants to hit the clubs? quote:Despite Bachem's concerns that the test programme had been significantly cut short, a young volunteer Luftwaffe test pilot, Lothar Sieber, climbed into the cockpit of the fully fuelled M23 on 1 March. The aircraft was equipped with an FM transmitter for the purpose of transmitting flight data from various monitoring sensors in the machine.[30]  Basically, the Nazis were rl Kerbal Space Program
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Jan 9, 2019 00:39
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aphid_licker posted:There was that study of that Polizeibataillon of middle-aged randos that seemed to have no problems following orders to massacre people. Ordinary men? Ordinary Men. In the book, it talks about how the people in charge of the unit encouraged them to participate, and one of the ways they did it was similar to Himmler's speech in a way, by talking about how nobody had to participate, but that it took a particular sort of courage and strength of character to do so. That sort of positive reinforecement, a desire to not let down their comrades, and heavy drinking did the rest. Then, after they did it enough, they got used to doing it.
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Jan 9, 2019 00:46
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Halloween Jack posted:I've read that Americans and Germans had opposite infantry doctrines, in a sense: we used machineguns to support riflemen, whereas they did the opposite, because we had the M1 and they had the MG 34/42. How true is that? Everybody shared the same general infantry squad design, which was to have an automatic weapon somewhere and a gang of regular infantry to do maneuvers. The American just happened to use the BAR as the squad-level automatic weapon, and it was extremely awkward in the role. It just wasn't really a machine gun and couldn't do the job anything like the Bren or MG34 could do comfortably. That being said, the Americans produced so much support equipment that any given infantry squad could reasonably expect support from their armed transports, or an attached tank platoon, or fighter-bombers, or mortars and artillery, so the basic infantry squad wasn't really that short of firepower. aphid_licker posted:There was that study of that Polizeibataillon of middle-aged randos that seemed to have no problems following orders to massacre people. Ordinary men? Epicurius posted:Ordinary Men. In the book, it talks about how the people in charge of the unit encouraged them to participate, and one of the ways they did it was similar to Himmler's speech in a way, by talking about how nobody had to participate, but that it took a particular sort of courage and strength of character to do so. That sort of positive reinforecement, a desire to not let down their comrades, and heavy drinking did the rest. Then, after they did it enough, they got used to doing it. There is also "Machete Season", which is a good book with a bad name. It's a series of interviews with this 10-man group of Rwandans who participated in the Rwandan Genocide, and basically covers much of the same ground. The thing that gets me is how candid these guys were, the author chose them because they were a close-knit bunch of buddies that grew up together, committed genocide together, fled the country together, and were imprisoned together. Their sentences were already decided, and so feeling secure in knowing they would eventually be released together, spoke freely in the interviews. You can get a sense of their personalities while they talk about hunting people down in a swamp, and they're normal people Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 00:57
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:they're normal people it's why i hate violent rhetoric even when it's "ironic"
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Jan 9, 2019 01:09
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Jobbo_Fett posted:
I had never heard of this plane before. It's literally a rocket whose only purpose is to launch smaller rockets.
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Jan 9, 2019 01:15
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pthighs posted:I had never heard of this plane before. It's literally a rocket whose only purpose is to launch smaller rockets. Early two-stage SAM.
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Jan 9, 2019 01:20
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pthighs posted:I had never heard of this plane before. It's literally a rocket whose only purpose is to launch smaller rockets. It was a simpler time, when men didn't have SAM sites and the Commando was voiced by Frank Klepacki
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Jan 9, 2019 01:20
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One of the things that’s both fascinating and vomit-producing to me is nazi and similar mindsets. Like, even in this thread, the justified pushback to the Clean Wehrmacht myth is to rightfully point out that by ‘39 and even more so by ‘45, most germans who weren’t themselves in death camps were complicit in nazi atrocities. And people end up going “yup, all monstrous nazis!” But most 20s-40s germans weren’t evil monsters. They were normal-rear end boring people. Who ended up being complicit in the Holocaust. I think part of ensuring “Never Again” really is NEVER again is acknowledging how normal, boring, non-evil people can end up doing evil. And a lot of us moderns say we’d definitely be the first to resist even though we’ve never had to be tested.
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Jan 9, 2019 01:25
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Cyrano4747 posted:you ever seen a kinda balding single guy, with a gut, in his late 30s or early 40s who's almost given up but still wants to hit the clubs? And if you mean by hit the clubs, gets there and promptly passes out or dies while there all without doing much, you'd be accurate. *grin*
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Jan 9, 2019 01:25
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Cyrano4747 posted:you ever seen a kinda balding single guy, with a gut, in his late 30s or early 40s who's almost given up but still wants to hit the clubs?
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Jan 9, 2019 01:28
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pthighs posted:I had never heard of this plane before. It's literally a rocket whose only purpose is to launch smaller rockets. You should read up on it... its really a loving nightmare. Launch from an erector rail, fire your payload and then the nose separates, and you and the rocket float to the ground under a chute. Should I mention its NON-TRAINED pilots flying it? And the only manned flight it had, had a very experienced pilot at the controls and ended up nosing into the ground at such high speed it wasn't till 1998 they were able to recover parts of the rocket...
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Jan 9, 2019 01:29
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Davin Valkri posted:I thought you were talking about the F-16 and went "huh"? So thanks for showing me this. Congress finding out that the Army spent $250 million on a worse M72 LAW to replace itself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4foeo3oY-E
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Jan 9, 2019 01:30
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I didn't see it touched upon but I think the proliferation of suicide pills to German generals and political figures was because of Paulus surrendering at Stalingrad. The whole reason he was promoted to Field Marshal was to reinforce that he and his men were supposed to fight to the death and he didn't, it was incredibly obvious he never would as a devout Catholic. Hitler was pretty livid about it and some party official probably came up with it to appease him.
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Jan 9, 2019 01:37
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HEY GUNS posted:isn't that also this entire thread except latwpiat
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Jan 9, 2019 01:38
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C.M. Kruger posted:Congress finding out that the Army spent $250 million on a worse M72 LAW to replace itself: The M72 was itself the US Army making a worse Superbazooka1 to replace itself. 1: The M72 had a few advantages over the M20 Superbazooka, so it wasn't strictly worse. However, you really have to question the wisdom in replacing an anti-tank weapon with one that's worse at killing tanks.
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Jan 9, 2019 01:44
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HEY GUNS posted:isn't that also this entire thread except latwpiat I'm married.
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Jan 9, 2019 01:49
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FrangibleCover posted:Consider the following: If a full power select fire rifle is a "Battle Rifle" then you get to call the intermediate one a "Combat Carbine". The mark vii is the finest space superiority fighter of all time
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Jan 9, 2019 01:53
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Acebuckeye13 posted:anyway I hope that answers some questions that people probably forgot were asked, anyway read Armored Thunderbolt which I referenced while making this post, it's basically the Big Book of Sherman Tanks and it's p. good. Thanks, that was just the sort of info I was after
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Jan 9, 2019 01:53
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Is “Fracas Fusil” out of the running?
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Jan 9, 2019 02:30
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What's the warplane with the widest operational usage? Currently and historically. Points for longevity of service along with just sheer numbers e: also what gun is this https://twitter.com/aigs1111/status/1082406193530851333 zoux fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 02:32
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Comrade Gorbash posted:Excuse me by my hair is full and luscious. That isn't allowed, scalp him!
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Jan 9, 2019 02:45
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Cyrano4747 posted:you ever seen a kinda balding single guy, with a gut, in his late 30s or early 40s who's almost given up but still wants to hit the clubs? After seeing that, I feel like this makes more sense: 
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Jan 9, 2019 02:57
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LatwPIAT posted:The M72 was itself the US Army making a worse Superbazooka1 to replace itself. 40s: Bazooka 50s: Super Bazooka 60s: 70s: Dragon but I'm in the minority here 80s: 90s: Our Lord and Saviour FGM-148 Javelin 00s: 10s: That's really pretty poor for the number of projects they had. zoux posted:What's the warplane with the widest operational usage? Currently and historically. Points for longevity of service along with just sheer numbers
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Jan 9, 2019 03:03
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HEY GUNS posted:isn't that also this entire thread except latwpiat I'm Japanese enough that I still look like I'm in high school despite being in my late 20s, and based on family history I'll look the same until I'm in my 60s at which point it'll all hit me at once. Also what's the best way to upload some images from my phone to the forums? I can't figure out Imgur on my phone, and I won't be back in the States for a few days.
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Jan 9, 2019 03:05
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zoux posted:e: also what gun is this EDIT: Best guess, a Model 75.
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Jan 9, 2019 03:20
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I had no idea bolt action shotguns existed
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Jan 9, 2019 03:21
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zoux posted:I had no idea bolt action shotguns existed There are also pump-action rifles.
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Jan 9, 2019 03:27
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Cyrano4747 posted:This was a real thing going around in the early 40s. Over Christmas I was at my parents place and I sorted through some boxes of old family poo poo. Both sides of my family come from Germany, but the maternal side came over in the late 19th century. My great grandma (my maternal grandma’s mom) seems to have been a fan of the Kaiser. In addition to a bunch of random “the US shouldn’t be getting into WW1 for those perfidious French” stuff I found a clipped letter to the editor from 1940. It basically said that we should stay out of this mess and don’t believe all the nasty things you hear about the Germans, the Poles know what they did and the Germans will surely only take back the parts of Prussia that are rightfully theirs in the peace. No idea if she wrote it or just clipped it because she agreed. Now, a bit of context: she would have been a 50 year old lady that hadn’t been back to Germany since she was a kid and there aren’t any indications she was especially pro Nazi. But, she was from part of Germany that was now Poland and she lived in Detroit. The Polish and German immigrant communities had a pretty contentious relationship at that time so yeah, less yay Hitler and more gently caress the Poles. Still, Yeesh great grandma. Interesting stuff. Could you, or anyone else, post more about the Polish and German immigrants' relationships in 20th century North America? I recall that the guy who made those good Canada posts had some material on them too. And yeah, the comparison of Mein Kampf to Youtube commentary is very apt. I had a bit earlier read the Communist Manifesto and it was just so well written, so the Mein Kampf fell extra flat after that.
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Jan 9, 2019 03:27
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StandardVC10 posted:There are also pump-action rifles. So is there a reason most commercial shotguns are pump action and hunting rifles are bolt action? I guess I'm asking if both actions are viable, what makes one better than the other for each gun? Are there break action rifles?
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Jan 9, 2019 03:44
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zoux posted:So is there a reason most commercial shotguns are pump action and hunting rifles are bolt action? Elephant guns were.
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Jan 9, 2019 03:46
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zoux posted:So is there a reason most commercial shotguns are pump action and hunting rifles are bolt action? Tube magazines fit neatly under the barrel but don't work well with pointy bullets, and pump actions tend to be associated with those, although I assume somebody somewhere has made a pump-action weapon with a box magazine.
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Jan 9, 2019 03:59
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zoux posted:What's the warplane with the widest operational usage? Currently and historically. Points for longevity of service along with just sheer numbers You will need to be a bit more specific. But my guess is the MiG-17. In active service since 1952. Still in service with the Malagasy Air Force as of 2018. But then again, there is the C-47 Skytrain. In service in 1940 and was still in service until 2008 with the 6th Special Operations Squadron. Almost 11k built over the years. Not as many as the MiG-21, but around longer! Note this picture from 2005: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_Special_Operations_Squadron#/media/File:6th_Special_Operations_Squadron_and_aircraft.jpg EvilMerlin fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 04:05
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zoux posted:So is there a reason most commercial shotguns are pump action and hunting rifles are bolt action? Bolt actions are dead simple and reliable and are enormously study. A pump action has more moving parts and is hence more finicky and more expensive, and also is going to be heavier for a given caliber. Working a pump action is noisier than working a bolt. Pumps are faster if you need followup shots. So the tendency is if you're going to be stalking around in the woods looking to get a single fatal shot off at a big animal, bolts. If you're going to be in a field trying to shoot some birds, pump (or double-barrel break). Then this trend reinforces itself; manufacturers don't make pump rifles in a big selection of calibers, so people looking to buy a hunting rifle don't see a lot of selection, so they buy bolt guns, and so on. Break-action rifles exist and are usually used in situations where you need a really big gently caress-off cartridge, and where if your first shot doesn't do it you need to take a second follow-up shot immediately or something big and angry like a pissed off Cape Buffalo is going to crush your rear end to dust. GotLag posted:Tube magazines fit neatly under the barrel but don't work well with pointy bullets, and pump actions tend to be associated with those, although I assume somebody somewhere has made a pump-action weapon with a box magazine. Yep. Remington has, for a long time. Phanatic fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 04:07
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zoux posted:So is there a reason most commercial shotguns are pump action and hunting rifles are bolt action? Advantages to bolt actions: • Greater lock strength • More accurate • Lighter (for the same caliber) • Cheaper Advantages to pump action: • Faster cycling • More easily used left-handed Advantages to break action: • Most compact/handy • Simplest • Cheapest • Easiest to use with double barrels Those factors lead to why, ages ago, shotguns went pump and rifles went bolt. Shotguns are generally used in hunting where you need to make one or two fast shots at relatively close range, and the use of shot means accuracy is not quite as important. Additionally for most shotgun loads you don't need all that much lock strength. Meanwhile, rifle hunting was done at longer ranges with more carefully placed shots, and with heavier loads - especially once smokeless powder took hold. If you missed, you probably weren't getting a second shot on target, even with a pump. So getting the increased accuracy and lighter weight made more sense - and in fact many of these rifles were single shot to get even lighter and simpler and cheaper. Break action works really well for shotguns. It's very cheap, light, and handy. And double barrels give you the fastest possible followup shot which is really helpful in most shotgun applications, and even with a pump you probably aren't getting a third shot so reloading after two is no big deal. The use of break action in high-powered hunting rifles is entirely to get that fast followup shot to deal with poo poo like lions and elephants that will come at you if you miss your first shot - making anything else double barreled is a huge pain, and ultimately is worth the effort to make the action strong enough to handle it. These days you can get pump actions that are plenty strong enough for rifle loads without much trouble, but the other factors still apply and the difference has become tradition. e, fb Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 04:17
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