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MikeJF posted:Beyond was awesome, Trek 09 had its moments, I wish Simon Pegg was running the franchise. People really need to give Into Darkness another shot, because it's not nearly the rehash of Wrath of Khan that it's treated as (there are like two scenes, and a few lines of dialogue, that get twisted / revamped, and that's it). Nemesis is, by far, the bigger rehash of Wrath of Khan, down to the science officer sacrificing himself to save the ship. Its biggest sin, as Farmer Crack-rear end and I have said on previous occasions, is that it essentially does a full reset on the Kirk / Spock / McCoy dynamic, especially in how it reverts Kirk and Spock into being assholes to one another. It's not like Marcus being a dumbass evil admiral is a new thing to Trek. The Vengeance is genuinely cool (especially that badass engine roar while in warp). The sets were redesigned pretty well, especially the plaza and Engineering. And Giacchino's score is great. No one can speak ill of "London Calling" with a straight face: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfP6o-61e2s
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Jan 8, 2019 23:24
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Timby posted:
Totally, especially since the cribbed Wrath of Khan death scene makes zero sense since Spock and Kirk seem to hate one another. Personally, I wouldn't have minded that "homage" as much if it didn't feel so contrived due to this.
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Jan 8, 2019 23:34
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I will never understand the vitriol some in this thread have for ST09 (and Beyond, to a lesser extent). It’s greatest sin is being fun.
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Jan 8, 2019 23:37
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I will never understand the vitriol some in this thread have for ST09 (and Beyond, to a lesser extent). It’s greatest sin is being fun. https://entertainment.theonion.com/trekkies-bash-new-star-trek-film-as-fun-watchable-1819594814
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Jan 8, 2019 23:38
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I still enjoy a lot about '09, it just feels a little shallow. It's good slick entertainment loosely based on the premise of Star Trek.
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Jan 8, 2019 23:42
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ST09 has a weak vision of Kirk and Spock’s character, a weak performance by Quinto, and a weak villain; its desire to be a fun romping movie is too much at odds with its ridiculously high stakes. STID is in some ways better conceived but it has another weak vision of Kirk and Spock’s characters, another weak performance by Quinto and some serious idiot writing — the fact that it is not as big a rip off of Wrath of Khan as another, worse movie does not make it good in itself. STB is the best written of the three but has another really weak villain unfortunately.
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Jan 8, 2019 23:48
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Remember when Sulu had a sword that one time? What if... get this... what if it was a samurai sword this time
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Jan 9, 2019 00:02
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09 was okay compared to half the trek films. Into Darkness aggressively, obnoxiously bored me. I forgot there was even a third one. These are my opinions thanks for coming to visit!
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Jan 9, 2019 00:27
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Into Darkness has one of my low-key favorite lines: "I think we're helping him." Great pithy way to sum up Kirk's dawning realization of the relationship between man and superman. I wish they had done a little more with the cat-and-mouse if they had to include Khan, and as it was they relied way too much on the audience's knowledge of the character. In my head canon he's still one of the other prisoners, protecting Khan by assuming his identity.
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Jan 9, 2019 00:28
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I too prefer to think Cumberbatch was playing a random augment and nobody knows any different because Khan was so effectively erased from history. Also, Cumberbatch should have joined the drat crew into the next movie.
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Jan 9, 2019 00:31
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remember when khan shot all those guys, so badas, 11/10 i lov film
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Jan 9, 2019 00:32
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Timby posted:Part of me wonders, considering all the shows that are in development, if CBS yanked Paramount's film license. That's an interesting thought. Les Moonves was the single biggest factor holding up a re-merger of CBS and Paramount, wasn't he? Maybe with him out of the picture they're planning for it and decided to kill the Trek branch that wasn't aligned with their shows. Or maybe Paramount's broke and can't spend the money on any big movie that isn't Transformers or Mission: Impossible...?
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Jan 9, 2019 00:48
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Paramount desperately want a Marvel or DC juggernaut of a shared universe but it's just not going to happen. Transformers crapped out after The Last Knight and I have no idea how the new one is doing. Universal tried too but that was an even bigger failure with their Dark Universe poo poo.
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Jan 9, 2019 01:22
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The new one(transformers) is a critical and fan darling but barely break even at the box office
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Jan 9, 2019 02:24
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Beyond is probably the best Trek made since the end of DS9 but that's damning it with some extremely faint praise.
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Jan 9, 2019 02:29
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:The new one(transformers) is a critical and fan darling but barely break even at the box office Has it opened in China yet? IIRC Transformers films do pretty well there.
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Jan 9, 2019 02:31
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Star Trek 09 is weird in that the central arc happens entirely in the first act and the rest of the flick isn't about anything. Well, not anything relatable. "If a future version of a person you hate says that you're friends in an alternate timeline, go ahead and trust them" doesn't exactly hit close to home.
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Jan 9, 2019 02:32
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All the reboot movies have been decent but I have no real desire to rewatch any of them, which I think for Star Trek in particular is pretty damning. I could watch Wrath of Khan, Voyage Home, Undiscovered Country, Generations, or First Contact any day of the week. Karl Urban as McCoy was the best part of the new movies.
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Jan 9, 2019 02:40
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The fact that even people that liked these movies can't be bothered to look at them again is telling
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Jan 9, 2019 02:42
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I will never understand the vitriol some in this thread have for ST09 (and Beyond, to a lesser extent). It’s greatest sin is being fun. I don't hate ST09 or anything, but this whole argument annoys the hell out of me because it was literally being made by people before the film even came out. Like I guarantee that Onion piece was written before anyone involved had actually seen anything, but because it was marketed as hip new Star Trek! people drew battle lines almost immediately. Beyond is great, though. It's not a classic, but I've seen it three times and I've enjoyed it every time.
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Jan 9, 2019 02:45
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:The new one(transformers) is a critical and fan darling but barely break even at the box office It might be the only real G1ish movie we'll ever get and yeah it was pretty drat fun
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Jan 9, 2019 02:45
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Timby posted:People really need to give Into Darkness another shot, because it's not nearly the rehash of Wrath of Khan that it's treated as (there are like two scenes, and a few lines of dialogue, that get twisted / revamped, and that's it). Nemesis is, by far, the bigger rehash of Wrath of Khan, down to the science officer sacrificing himself to save the ship. Its biggest sin, as Farmer Crack-rear end and I have said on previous occasions, is that it essentially does a full reset on the Kirk / Spock / McCoy dynamic, especially in how it reverts Kirk and Spock into being assholes to one another. When did Timby the Wise abandon reason for madness? It's basically guilty of everything that your average-to-bad Marvel film does, and yet manages to also be offensive, borderline incomprehensible, and a toothless ripoff of a film that has an actual vision for what it wants to be besides "profitable." Beyond is also pretty pedestrian and is even more of a Star Trek-as-MCU concept. It's just that it meets the minimum standards for a functional script and also isn't about jet fuel melting steel beams, which is good enough to make it the best Star Trek movie since 1991  . Star Trek is in a pretty sad state and has been mined out. The best reboot movies are "fine, I guess." They'd be better off making Star Trek movies with new characters since you at least then wouldn't have to deal with how disappointing the portrayals are.
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Jan 9, 2019 02:48
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One thing I will say about the new movies is that, JJ Abrams lens flare aside, they at least look like Star Trek. Discovery just looks like every other muddled underlit HDRified action movie from the last ten years. There's nothing unique about it.
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Jan 9, 2019 03:01
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The new movies totally lack the visual style of TOS, they are much closer to the TOS movies which makes sense I guess. Disco as I’ve said since the beginning takes its aesthetic cues from Enterprise as much as JJTrek.
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Jan 9, 2019 03:06
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Kurtzman did an interview about the Picard Show and says that the destruction of Romulus in ST09 is going to have some influence on the story of the new series http://trekcore.com/blog/2019/01/picard-star-trek-series-heavily-influenced-by-2009-romulan-disaster/
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Jan 9, 2019 03:06
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Just watched First Contact for the first time in forever and yeah, it mostly holds up hella well. The Borg Queen is a bit of an obnoxious addition to the canon, yeah, but the only part that seems really bad upon reflection is the last big action sequence. Like, from the moment BQ says “Watch your future’s end” until Picard and Data leave engineering it just seems weirdly poorly constructed. Bad shot composition compounded by some pretty dated CG. Other than that, though, still a great movie.
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Jan 9, 2019 03:56
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Phylodox posted:Just watched First Contact for the first time in forever and yeah, it mostly holds up hella well. The Borg Queen is a bit of an obnoxious addition to the canon, yeah, but the only part that seems really bad upon reflection is the last big action sequence. Like, from the moment BQ says “Watch your future’s end” until Picard and Data leave engineering it just seems weirdly poorly constructed. Bad shot composition compounded by some pretty dated CG. Other than that, though, still a great movie.
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Jan 9, 2019 04:10
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Phylodox posted:Just watched First Contact for the first time in forever and yeah, it mostly holds up hella well. The Borg Queen is a bit of an obnoxious addition to the canon, yeah, but the only part that seems really bad upon reflection is the last big action sequence. Like, from the moment BQ says “Watch your future’s end” until Picard and Data leave engineering it just seems weirdly poorly constructed. Bad shot composition compounded by some pretty dated CG. Other than that, though, still a great movie. Yeah, bad canon addition but still cool for that movie.
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Jan 9, 2019 04:15
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I never really had a problem with the Borg Queen. Other than the Voyager writers, but not conceptually.
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Jan 9, 2019 04:31
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I think she is poor as a villain in First Contact. All she does is smugly troll Data for no reason that is explained. “I am the Borg”, ok what does that mean, Data asks? There is no answer to this in the movie because the scriptwriters couldn’t think of anything for her to say other than more snide quips about how meat people are too dumb to understand her cunning plan. First Contact already kind of has too much going on so I’m not surprised they didn’t want to spend time fleshing her out, but she is a shallow character and the only reason she isn’t disastrous is thanks to the actress.
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Jan 9, 2019 05:06
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I also found out that on Voyager the Borg Queen is played by the same actress who had that scandalous kiss with Dax that one time, so technically Dax made out with a Borg. Oh, and that same actress is Ollie’s mom from Arrow.
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Jan 9, 2019 05:15
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skasion posted:I think she is poor as a villain in First Contact. All she does is smugly troll Data for no reason that is explained. “I am the Borg”, ok what does that mean, Data asks? There is no answer to this in the movie because the scriptwriters couldn’t think of anything for her to say other than more snide quips about how meat people are too dumb to understand her cunning plan. Sounds like someone's thinking in three dimensional terms!
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Jan 9, 2019 05:43
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Someone before posted suggestions for 3 episodes each to give people a taste of each Star Trek series, what were those again? And did they have any for TAS?
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Jan 9, 2019 06:05
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Someone before posted suggestions for 3 episodes each to give people a taste of each Star Trek series, what were those again? And did they have any for TAS? TAS: The one with spock time travelling The one with more tribbles The one with literal satan
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Jan 9, 2019 06:08
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skasion posted:I think she is poor as a villain in First Contact. All she does is smugly troll Data for no reason that is explained. “I am the Borg”, ok what does that mean, Data asks? There is no answer to this in the movie because the scriptwriters couldn’t think of anything for her to say other than more snide quips about how meat people are too dumb to understand her cunning plan. First Contact already kind of has too much going on so I’m not surprised they didn’t want to spend time fleshing her out, but she is a shallow character and the only reason she isn’t disastrous is thanks to the actress. On Voyager they made the Queen a bit too human. She should be way more alien and disconnected, but she spent a bunch of time trying to get revenge on Voyager and trying to reclaim Seven, which makes no sense. Seven was not unique to the Borg whatsoever.
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Jan 9, 2019 06:19
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FlamingLiberal posted:On Voyager they made the Queen a bit too human. She should be way more alien and disconnected, but she spent a bunch of time trying to get revenge on Voyager and trying to reclaim Seven, which makes no sense. Seven was not unique to the Borg whatsoever. Yeah that was dumb, the only way it could've possibly worked is if Seven had been the first Borg ever removed from the collective and that made the Borg lose its collective poo poo and need to re-attach its lost limb or something. But obviously way too late to try that as a storyline.
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Jan 9, 2019 06:23
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Someone before posted suggestions for 3 episodes each to give people a taste of each Star Trek series, what were those again? And did they have any for TAS? Cythereal posted:I had a strange thought this evening. A friend of mine wants three episodes from each pre-Enterprise Trek to watch to get an idea of it, and all three of my Voyager picks involve a sort of time travel and all in different ways.
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Jan 9, 2019 06:31
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I'd sub 'Blink of an Eye' in on Voyager, it's a good standalone episode and a good example of Voyager's 'random anomaly' plots.
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Jan 9, 2019 06:53
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Tunicate posted:TAS: Sounds good, though not the one with the Kzinti?
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Jan 9, 2019 07:52
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Sounds good, though not the one with the Kzinti? I'd swap out the time-travel Spock episode with the stasis box ep personally.
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Jan 9, 2019 08:08
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