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Vox Nihili posted:I had a job doing union stuff but it turned out to mostly involve subrogating people's workers comp and injury settlement money and telling people that their dying spouse isn't covered under their plan/their kid's disability definitely isn't covered (alopecia treatment is OBVIOUSLY cosmetic), etc. Yeah I get that - crazy what happened to cat food costs, you really need $250k+ per year.
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Jan 9, 2019 01:10
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nm posted:At the PDs office, we didn't get it. We printed things out and used a sharpie and scanned it. It isn't that loving hard. There’s also software that does this. That my cheap broke rear end state has managed to buy. So....
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Jan 9, 2019 01:48
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Vox Nihili posted:I had a job doing union stuff but it turned out to mostly involve subrogating people's workers comp and injury settlement money and telling people that their dying spouse isn't covered under their plan/their kid's disability definitely isn't covered (alopecia treatment is OBVIOUSLY cosmetic), etc. Of course you’re a cat guy. Of course.
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Jan 9, 2019 01:49
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ActusRhesus posted:Of course you’re a cat guy. Of course. 
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Jan 9, 2019 02:10
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ActusRhesus posted:Of course you’re a cat guy. Of course. I love all animals, even humans.
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Jan 9, 2019 02:11
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I love myself but not humans
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Jan 9, 2019 02:26
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Sab0921 posted:You should have bailed from big law the moment your realized your entire existence is dedicated to being on call 24/7 to grease the wheels of capitalism to exacerbate the transfer of wealth from working people to the capital class (quite literally if you're in any sort of PE transactional practice). Live your best life - quit. Yeah this is true, but what if you're a biglaw associate and you're too junior (2nd year) to really look at any in-house positions for probably at least 1-1.5 more years? (Thread lurker of 10? years and obviously another success story).
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Jan 9, 2019 03:11
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In-house is becoming more like a 5-8 year prospect depending on your practice area and the market cap of the type of company you’d like to land at. Even some garbage start-ups here have GCs with senior associate experience.
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Jan 9, 2019 03:16
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All you lurker bitches need to dox yourselves and start posting funny poo poo or else you’ll never make equity partner
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Jan 9, 2019 03:30
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Look Sir Droids posted:In-house is becoming more like a 5-8 year prospect depending on your practice area and the market cap of the type of company you’d like to land at. Even some garbage start-ups here have GCs with senior associate experience. Oh, for sure. I meant 1-1.5 years incredibly optimistically -- definitely wasn't clear there. Problem is I don't even know what job I could pivot to if I don't want to slam my dick in a door for another 3 years (besides maybe consulting but lol @ having time to actually do case interview prep).
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Jan 9, 2019 03:35
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DuWay posted:Yeah this is true, but what if you're a biglaw associate and you're too junior (2nd year) to really look at any in-house positions for probably at least 1-1.5 more years? I have a friend who went in-house a few months ago and she’s class of 2016. She just told the partners that she was done and they set her up with a nice in house job. Not saying she’s the typical case but it’s always possible
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Jan 9, 2019 03:40
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Phil Moscowitz posted:All you lurker bitches need to dox yourselves and start posting funny poo poo or else you’ll never make equity partner What do you get when you drop a piano down a mineshaft? A flat miner.
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Jan 9, 2019 03:41
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DuWay posted:Yeah this is true, but what if you're a biglaw associate and you're too junior (2nd year) to really look at any in-house positions for probably at least 1-1.5 more years? There is law that is not big law. There are exit opportunities outside of corporate in-house. What did you write your law school admissions essay about? Go do that poo poo after using big law to extremely aggressively pay off your student debt. The American dream and home ownership is a trap and bullshit anyway, so don't buy a home and then you don't need the big salary. The DNC needs voter protection lawyers. The ACLU in Texas needs attorneys to challenge whatever bullshit the state leg is going to poo poo out in the next 4 months. Indigent defendants need lawyers. Small cities need lawyers. Big cities need lawyers. Bernie Sanders needs campaign workers. Sab0921 fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 03:45
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Sab0921 posted:There is law that is not big law.  
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Jan 9, 2019 03:58
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disjoe posted:I have a friend who went in-house a few months ago and she’s class of 2016. She just told the partners that she was done and they set her up with a nice in house job. That's awesome. Definitely can see it working for some folks but that seems like a good way to get fired for me. (I assume she must have had good relationships with the partners). Sab0921 posted:There is law that is not big law. I don't know if I'd ever go to another law firm (smaller or otherwise) unless I knew someone really well there that could vouch for it not being a hellhole. Too many of my friends have been screwed into small- or mid-sized law that was 80% of the hours of biglaw (and constantly on-call, which is the worst part) for 40-50% of the pay. But yeah, point taken about exit ops outside of corporate in-house and that is what I have been trying to get a read on. I just have had a hard time finding anything, I guess. It may be a geographical thing since I need to stay in the Midwest for family commitments, unfortunately. edit: And I am almost certain I just lied about my entire admissions essay. Whoops.
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Jan 9, 2019 04:04
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DuWay, find a recruiter or three in your area and let them find you something.
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Jan 9, 2019 04:23
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DuWay posted:I don't know if I'd ever go to another law firm (smaller or otherwise) unless I knew someone really well there that could vouch for it not being a hellhole. Too many of my friends have been screwed into small- or mid-sized law that was 80% of the hours of biglaw (and constantly on-call, which is the worst part) for 40-50% of the pay. Small firms are hit or miss, the key is that they do what you want to do - if you're in big law lit and you're at a smaller firm that still does commercial lit, you're going to still hate it because it's the same dumb bullshit. What do you want to do? You're a lucky dude in a good position by being in big law now. You can basically write your own ticket out. So figure out what it is you want to do (if in the law or outside of it). Before their passion and core beliefs were destroyed by corporate drudgery, most attorneys believed in something, wanted to do something, wanted to be something. You're still new enough that you can find that person again.
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Jan 9, 2019 04:31
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Look Sir Droids posted:DuWay, find a recruiter or three in your area and let them find you something. Recruiters are loathe to work with juniors trying to go in-house and will actively tell you not to do it until after ~5 years. And when you get to 5 years they still want you to lateral to another biglaw firm because it's a lot easier to do that (and they get more money). Totally get their incentives (I used to be one), but I'm not super optimistic. Can't hurt to try, though! Sab0921 posted:Small firms are hit or miss, the key is that they do what you want to do - if you're in big law lit and you're at a smaller firm that still does commercial lit, you're going to still hate it because it's the same dumb bullshit. I think in-house would be a good fit (I do corporate) but as mentioned that's a long shot. I don't love the work but I also don't mind it, which is good enough for me. My passions are always going to be outside of my career (e.g. I am not going to be a barista to fund my acting aspirations), so I mostly just want more time while still having money to support my family in a comfortable way. An ideal position would be something where I did a combination of legal work and business/consulting stuff, but I honestly don't know what those positions are (closest I've seen is some startup stuff where dealing with legal SaaS products, which is pretty close). Like you said, I am a lucky dude and I try to be aware of that. I just don't see this panning out for much more than a year (if that) and have some anxiety relating to what options there are afterwards for someone so junior. Don't mean to hijack after contributing literally 0 to the thread/community. I'd say go back to talking about tacos or trying to find out if Mookie is literally dead due to an improper business card but haven't seen that mentioned in a hot minute.
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Jan 9, 2019 04:58
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Sounds like you wanna be a government lawyer. California and the feds pay OK, but it isn't big law. There are a ton of inhouse counsel type gigs in both, it isn't mostly trial work.
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Jan 9, 2019 05:01
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nm posted:Sounds like you wanna be a government lawyer. California and the feds pay OK, but it isn't big law. There are a ton of inhouse counsel type gigs in both, it isn't mostly trial work. You know, I completely forgot about government jobs being an option because I was only thinking about the litigation stuff. I'll keep my eyes peeled (USAJobs is barren right now, it looks like and I can't say I know of any other place to look besides city/state level). Thanks! I honestly wouldn't even mind doing trial work (did corporate as a matter of pragmatism), but I have to think that ship has sailed and is too much of an uphill climb. I think I like corporate slightly more, anyways.
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Jan 9, 2019 05:22
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DuWay posted:You know, I completely forgot about government jobs being an option. Was focused on the trial stuff. I'll keep my eyes peeled (USAJobs is barren right now, it looks like and I can't say I know of any other place to look besides city/state level). Thanks! Check out your local and state governments. Even small suburban cities can provide great jobs and are generally more transactional than litigation.
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Jan 9, 2019 05:24
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DuWay posted:You know, I completely forgot about government jobs being an option because I was only thinking about the litigation stuff. I'll keep my eyes peeled (USAJobs is barren right now, it looks like and I can't say I know of any other place to look besides city/state level). Thanks! Here in California, county counsels offices in larger areas pay really pretty well for government jobs. $200k+ top salaries in dome cities. City Attorneys maybe as well, but I know less about them.
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Jan 9, 2019 05:26
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nm posted:Here in California, county counsels offices in larger areas pay really pretty well for government jobs. $200k+ top salaries in dome cities. drat, gotta move to one of them dome cities. Wave of the future.
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Jan 9, 2019 09:26
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Look Sir Droids posted:DuWay, find a recruiter or three in your area and let them find you something. At least in DC, recruiters are 100% useless for anything except going to another biglaw job. (They’re good at that, though.)
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Jan 9, 2019 09:43
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Come to banking. Sub-40 hour work week, home every night for dinner, good pay and benefits, no work email on your phone, wear polos and slacks to work, and about as stressful as an afternoon sun swept nap in the park. This is Jew paradise.
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Jan 9, 2019 16:23
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I see we're in the upswing of a manic phase. Good on you, mate. Enjoy it
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Jan 9, 2019 16:30
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Toona the Cat posted:Come to banking. Sub-40 hour work week, home every night for dinner, good pay and benefits, no work email on your phone, wear polos and slacks to work, and about as stressful as an afternoon sun swept nap in the park. This is Jew paradise. When do you start having the parties where you throw little persons against a velcro dart board?
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Jan 9, 2019 16:52
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I haven’t even been invited to a Shabbat dinner yet, so I think it’s going to be awhile.
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Jan 9, 2019 16:56
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Sab0921 posted:You should have bailed from big law the moment your realized your entire existence is dedicated to being on call 24/7 to grease the wheels of capitalism to exacerbate the transfer of wealth from working people to the capital class (quite literally if you're in any sort of PE transactional practice). Live your best life - quit. Some people really hate biglaw, and if you're one of them, you should obviously quit. Also, you have to work a lot, and if you want to work 9-5, you should also quit. But it's not really worse than any other comparable jobs that you would have got if you went to business school instead of law school. Management consultants and investment bankers work about as much, travel more, and have (relatively) a lot more pressure at an earlier stage to bring in revenue. Corporate executives work a lot, have a lot more pressure or responsibility than any corporate lawyer, and have a job that's much more at risk to factors outside their control (and also make less than you think). Large private equity firms pay better than anyone else, but it's an order of magnitude harder to get jobs there, and they have extremely high turnover so almost no one gets to the big bucks. The only job that seems like it could be categorically better would be something like being a senior programmer at Google, or an investment professional at a successful hedge fund, but those jobs are also much harder to get than biglaw, and also everyone I know who does them works as hard as a biglawyer. If you compare to most jobs, biglaw actually looks pretty good:
Also, if you hate your biglaw job, think about why you hate it. If it's the hours or the content of the work, you may need to quit, but otherwise consider lateraling or changing practice areas. There are many firms that don't have horrible screaming partners or facetime requirements, and there are a lot of practice areas that have relatively easier hours and very few sudden emergencies.
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Jan 9, 2019 17:35
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Screaming partner. 80 hour workweek (yes they expect you to be there. I noted the office had a shower. Though “cool. I can take a 30min run during lunch.” No. That is not done. That is for the people who never go home.) Overt rage at my audacity in getting pregnant. Backbiting snakes as associates. No thanks.
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Jan 9, 2019 18:01
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I don't want to post too much, but some of the things you listed are starting to erode at some firms (even decent ones) and that's why I'm starting to eye the exit. Just as a new fourth year who has lateraled once already, I'm hesitant to do that again, especially given my goal is to end up in house. (I'll never ever have a glimmer of a shot at partner.) And yes, I am going to try to put as much into the debt as possible this year. I was making good progress before, but after a breakup I ended up with housing costs that were out of control for a bit. I should be below six figures debt soon, and if I stay in biglaw for this year I'll end up back in positive net worth, I think. What an awful way to get back to break even, though. Don't go to law school, kids.
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Jan 9, 2019 18:06
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Screaming Partner: "Blarzgh, read this file and get up to speed on it." "Ok, I read the file. I don't know if y'all noticed, but there's been a suit filed in Louisiana, and I checked real quick and the answer date is in two days." "Why the gently caress would you do that?" "Uh, do what?" "Waste my clients' money looking at something you're not being paid to look at? [The suit and the answer date they didn't notice]" "Well, I saw the petition, and that no one had filed an answer, and I just thought..." "Well I'm not paying you to loving think!"
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Jan 9, 2019 18:10
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Ani posted:If you compare to most jobs, biglaw actually looks pretty good:
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Jan 9, 2019 18:11
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But where will you hide when the revolution comes if you work in one of those big law office buildings?
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Jan 9, 2019 18:12
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blarzgh posted:Screaming Partner: A cool and normal profession
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Jan 9, 2019 18:14
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Same Screaming Partner: "I want you to print and tab all these documents." (10 minutes later) Screaming Partner's Wife, the other Partner: "What are you doing?" "Screaming Partner told me to do this." "Well you're doing it all wrong, do it this way." (30 minutes later) Screaming Partner: "What the gently caress, I told you to do it this other way?!" (Blarzgh looks at Wife Partner) "Uh, she stopped me and told me to do it this way." Wife Partner: [silence] Screaming Partner: "you need to loving listen to what you're told." (Later) Wife Partner: "you need to loving listen to what you're told."
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Jan 9, 2019 18:16
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Soothing Vapors posted:A cool and normal profession Oh, and by the way: (The next day) Screaming Partner: "Blarzgh, I need you to prepare an answer for that suit, and find local counsel to file it."
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Jan 9, 2019 18:18
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I think it takes certain personality types to thrive in or enjoy or even tolerate big law. But the firms I've worked at including my current firm do not have yelling cultures though I acknowledge that some NYC firms do have such cultures. I wish law students were educated about what life is actually like at firms and understand both the technical skills and soft skills/people skills that they will need to learn to advance at law firms.
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Jan 9, 2019 18:27
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I really like the partner I work with most of the time. They're friendly, open, and reasonable, while also being extremely competent. No screaming, no laying blame for their own mistakes or problems.
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Jan 9, 2019 18:35
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I didn't do biglaw but I did get to experience the screaming partner poo poo Now I work as an in-house and while I miss the courtroom and I hate trying to iron out the payment processes,* it's awesome *I never realized what a monumental pain in the rear end it is to wire a loving payment from Russia, there's a biglaw bill that's two loving months overdue because the accounting department and the bank keep coming up with new bullshit requirements and there was a goddamn change in currency exchange legislation, which now says "if you make any advance payment [including retainers], your bill has to have a loving date when you'll get the money back if you don't get the service or goods" Heaven forbid any of you billers from ever having to make Russian client-compliant bills and accompanying documents. Timesheets won't be enough, let me tell you
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Jan 9, 2019 18:50
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