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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:the whole concept of dance gangs that immediately transitioned into super suit battles was very silly and didn't work well. if they were so willing to beat each other up after transforming why wouldn't they have gotten into normal street fights beforehand? it was originally supposed to be feuding street gangs and it shows. They didn't go Dance -> Kamen rider battles as you make it out to be. The dancers were already doing pokemon battles with Inves for the rights to the stages before the Kamen Riders were introduced. It only escalated when Kouta transformed and easily trounced everyone their pokeinves causing everyone else to step up their game and get their own drivers. I agree though the dance part isn't very good.  The only part of that I like is that it's a very mundane start to use as a ground floor.Blaze Dragon posted:Gaim definitely struggles with the writer's ideas vs. the toyetic aspect of Kamen Rider, and ultimately is a lesser product for it, but it does have some really good moments and characters (that, sadly does not include its protagonist, who has a whole one episode where he's interesting and it's the first) . The ending is...debatable in terms of quality, and then it has an epilogue that was blatantly forced by executives, and that does overall hurt the quality of the show, but I think it was fine. Not amazing, probably on the lower-end of Heisei Riders, but still watchable. Definitely a better show than Ghost or Wizard which shouldn't be watched at all. Everything in Wizard is amazing, except cast (barring Nitou), and story. It's unfortunate for Wizard that those things tend to matter a lot in a story based medium.
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Jan 8, 2019 14:34
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I'm very much okay with the concept of Gaim being Kamen Rider SMT because it means best boy Kouta understands the importance of flipping off both god and Satan and going the Best Route, the Neutral Route. No gods. No masters.
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Jan 8, 2019 14:58
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King of Solomon posted:I liked Gaim a lot while I was watching it, but thinking back to that show, I feel like it would have been much stronger if Micchy died somewhere around the halfway point. He was so, so terrible, and he only got worse. I get that a lot of that was intentional, but after a certain point he was so awful that he dragged the entire show down with him. Micchy as a comically irredeemable supervillain was yet another aspect of Gaim that was highly entertaining as part of the weekly ride, but really doesn't hold up in retrospect. Oh, I guess Micchy could help Redyue kidnap a bunch of people to use as human batteries and take over the world... but why? What motivation did he have to do that besides being nebulously, generically evil? I feel like Gaim's characterization and overall conflict was much more believable early on when the writing leaned into everyone working towards their own form of justice on a smaller scale, whether it was Micchy stealthily fighting against Yggdrasill, Kaito butting heads with Kouta over his aggressive nature against his enemies, even lesser bits like Sid's sadistic mafia-like nature, etc. But that was completely lost when the series gradually turned into your typical good vs. evil save (or destroy) the world plot. Plenty of other Rider shows like W, OOO, and Build suffered similarly when the conflict shifted away, so not like it's solely a Gaim thing. Cough Drop The Beat fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Jan 8, 2019 |
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Jan 8, 2019 14:59
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King of Solomon posted:Incidentally, you might want to check out Kamen Rider Amazons at some point. I haven't watched the full series yet, but it's a lot different from standard Rider shows. It's not toyetic at all, which is a breath of fresh air. One warning, though, that show is brutal. Yeah I part of an episode a year or so ago via VNC tunneling on Amazon Japan's site and it seemed really wild. The original Amazon was one of my favorite Riders as a kid due to it's insane violence.
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Jan 8, 2019 15:00
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Darth TNT posted:The dancers were already doing pokemon battles with Inves for the rights to the stages before the Kamen Riders were introduced. Pokemon battles that, may I remind you, where everyone used the exact same Worm-looking monster. I feel like a stronger writer would've leaned into that. Even things like marbles or pogs are not all played using the exact same pieces, because that's boring. No kids are going to be into that. And it would only help the toyetic nature of the toy commercial nature of the show to have a digimon-esque nature to the monsters and use those to tie into the transformations and powerups that the toys give to the transformation devices. Just like we see later in Ex-Aid.
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Jan 8, 2019 15:18
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Darth TNT posted:I don't get the hate for Gaim. I really liked it. Here's the thing That's great. Just because other people don't like Thing, does not invalidate the fact that you do like Thing. I hate Digimon Season 2, but there are just as many people who love it. If anyone tries to say that something is bad, they almost always mean "in my opinion". Just keep that in mind. Also Gaim is getting a bit of a drumming in recent years because at the time it was the reverse- in the moment of airing, Gaim was super popular and any criticism was met very harshly.
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Jan 8, 2019 15:31
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The only Kamen Rider I flat didn't like was Agito. It really didn't put enough of a spin on the secret society of monsters trying to rule poo poo trope.
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Jan 8, 2019 17:20
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Potsticker posted:Pokemon battles that, may I remind you, where everyone used the exact same Worm-looking monster. I feel like a stronger writer would've leaned into that. Even things like marbles or pogs are not all played using the exact same pieces, because that's boring. No kids are going to be into that. And it would only help the toyetic nature of the toy commercial nature of the show to have a digimon-esque nature to the monsters and use those to tie into the transformations and powerups that the toys give to the transformation devices. The did have differences. There were three colors of the basic Invess  Monsters are rarely ever a selling point for KR merch, so there's no point in making extra monster suits for that purpose. The side stories with Kaito's backstory should've been incorporated into the main series as it really fills out his character beyond being a kid who grew up in the city and values power for the sake of power. I can sorta take or leave the Yggdrassil backstory stuff though, but I can under stand a certain subset of fans wanting more Takatora or Sengoku
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Jan 8, 2019 17:36
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coconono posted:The only Kamen Rider I flat didn't like was Agito. It really didn't put enough of a spin on the secret society of monsters trying to rule poo poo trope. On the other hand, Hikawa is the best and G3(-X) is such an unusual, extremely basic, even realistic Rider that I can't help but rank it amongst my favourites. It's just a suit of armour with a bunch of guns, it can't even form out of nowhere. It'd be lame if that got repeated because it makes G3(-X) stand out but it worked really well for it.
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Jan 8, 2019 18:30
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Xelkelvos posted:The did have differences. There were three colors of the basic Invess if the monsters were cute like the gamers when fightin inside the ring and then either turned monstrous when breaking free or becoming armor when a rider used that power up like the gamers i bet you 100% they'd sell well
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Jan 8, 2019 18:49
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Elfgames posted:if the monsters were cute like the gamers when fightin inside the ring and then either turned monstrous when breaking free or becoming armor when a rider used that power up like the gamers i bet you 100% they'd sell well I don't disagree, but this is just how Kamen Rider and Super Sentai work, the monsters exist entirely to facilitate the plot and disappear as soon as their role is over, normally at the end of one or two episodes. This isn't Ultraman, where the monsters are just as if not more important than the titular character and the same monsters get to reappear across many different series because they are proper parts of the franchise's mythology instead of plot-enablers.
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Jan 8, 2019 19:03
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And the monsters aren't the thing that need to sell to Real Life kids, that complaint was about believing the kids in the show being excited to battle it out with them, but imagine if all the GaiaMemories in W just turned people into Worms. How much less exciting would that have been? Especially when each monster makes a unique power for the Riders, you want them to be exciting and to fit the theme of the power. And there's certainly room for things like Masquerade Dopants, Yummys or the Bugster mooks, but those are there to prop up the monsters and beef up the fight scenes, especially when the cast of fighters gets larger.Elfgames posted:if the monsters were cute like the gamers when fightin inside the ring and then either turned monstrous when breaking free or becoming armor when a rider used that power up like the gamers i bet you 100% they'd sell well Exactly.
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Jan 8, 2019 19:06
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Blaze Dragon posted:On the other hand, Hikawa is the best and G3(-X) is such an unusual, extremely basic, even realistic Rider that I can't help but rank it amongst my favourites. It's just a suit of armour with a bunch of guns, it can't even form out of nowhere. yeah I appreciated that part. To my knowledge, they haven't done another "rider is a suit of armor you gotta put on." Since that one.
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Jan 8, 2019 19:52
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As a week to week thing I could see Gaim not working, but as a 3-4 episodes a night show for me I enjoyed it quite a bit more than I expected. But I also enjoy "so bad it's good" toku as much as I ever did, and many of the plot beats people on the forums regularly bash are some of my highlights. The only plot arc that really put me to sleep was the drama over the dancers reputations going to mud.
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Jan 8, 2019 21:48
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I don't understand that mindset at all I'll watch a bad movie here and there, sure, but 40-50 Goddamn Episodes is just far too much of an investment to me for "so bad it's good"
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Jan 8, 2019 22:46
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LuPat: For as long as it has taken and the many flaws the show has had, I'm glad it's the Patren P much figuring it out.
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Jan 8, 2019 23:07
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I’m a big fan of accidental art so 40-50 episodes of so bad it’s good is my kinda jam.
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Jan 9, 2019 04:03
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coconono posted:The only Kamen Rider I flat didn't like was Agito. It really didn't put enough of a spin on the secret society of monsters trying to rule poo poo trope. That may be because the Linto weren't trying to rule the world. The Linto are only killing specific humans, not pointlessly and randomly murderizing.
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Jan 9, 2019 04:08
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poo poo stories or not, I have to say that the suits and armor for most of these Rider shows is loving GREAT. I love the aesthetics that the designers come up with. I may have been so-so on Zi-O (the little bit that I saw) but Zi-O's armor is a goddamned delight. I would have LOVED having a vinyl of him with that whole watchband and clock hands look. Edit: one of the few tumblrs I actually bookmarked: https://crazy-monster-design.tumblr.com GATOS Y VATOS fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 04:17
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Even Wizard has excellent aesthetics. A cool suit with a cool belt, cool upgrades, and cool powers. Shame about everything else.
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Jan 9, 2019 04:37
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Kachidoki Arms and the DJ Gun are absolutely fantastic designs. Even if I say nothing else nice about Gaim, that suit was top notch.
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Jan 9, 2019 04:45
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they were fantastic designs that could not possibly survive the other half of the show.
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Jan 9, 2019 04:46
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iirc toku designs went fully modern in the series Flashman in 1986. The kaijin designs were loving WILD. I'm not sure if he had any part of it but at the time it was shown it really looked like Yutaka Uzubuchi who worked on Dunbine. Sure enough it was him, and I just found out he's worked on OOO as well.
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Jan 9, 2019 04:54
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Build movie's up, the product of the luck of the gods (a combination of no work interrupting us, a very short script for nichiasa movie standards, and virtually no signs whatsoever to typeset). It's a very entertaining movie directed by one of the best directors Rider has to offer, and we hope you enjoy it! (Look it might not make apparent sense that we did a feature movie under 24 hours and we still haven't released a 3 minute webisode in three weeks, but it does make sense somehow I swear)
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Jan 9, 2019 09:25
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Burkion posted:Here's the thing  gimme the GOD drat candy posted:they were fantastic designs that could not possibly survive the other half of the show. At least that is an extra excuse for the final battle where his flags were broken by Kaitou. Potsticker posted:Kachidoki Arms and the DJ Gun are absolutely fantastic designs. Even if I say nothing else nice about Gaim, that suit was top notch. Also best introduction. The rooftop scene was great. That's how you sell a toy. Ignis posted:Build movie's up, the product of the luck of the gods (a combination of no work interrupting us, a very short script for nichiasa movie standards, and virtually no signs whatsoever to typeset). It's a very entertaining movie directed by one of the best directors Rider has to offer, and we hope you enjoy it! Awesome, thanks.
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Jan 9, 2019 10:04
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Re: Gaim, it's really bad because Urobuchi is a bad writer who is just relentlessly plagarizing himself - all the best parts of Gaim are just poo poo he's written a bunch of times before, and he's writing his own thing that goes against the themes of Kamen Rider as a franchise, not to mention a massive derailing of basically all characters except Kouta. I don't know how anyone can say Build repeated the same arc with Sento over and over and not get tired of Kouta doing the character development equivalent of donuts in a wal-mart parking lot. In addition, Rider's themes of becoming monstrous to oppose tyranny or a force greater than yourself falls flat on its face when Kouta because poo poo god emperor of some rando outer space planet. Sure, Kouta became inhuman to save the world, but he also became a "ruler", Rider isn't about ruling. (It's why, for its credit, Zi-O works. A lot of the subtext is what makes a king different from a tyrant.) In addition to that the pacing is just so rough after like. Episode 20. It's impossible to state how bad it was to watch weekly, spinning its wheels and going off in weird-rear end directions. Maybe, at the end of the day, Gaim has a good idea and some good themes underneath (rebellious youth against a corporately washed city is a very Jet Set Radio premise) but I wouldn't trust Urobuchi's cynicism to bring it out. That's my 2c, anyway.
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Jan 9, 2019 15:19
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In regards to the latest LuPat I've gotta say that was honestly a pretty good use of a clipshow episode (sort of reminded me of the one from Goseiger actually). Also it seems that LuPat is going to be 51 episodes in total, making it one of the longest Sentai shows in quite a while (I believe the last season to break 50 episodes was Gokaiger). Larryb fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 16:02
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Monathin posted:I don't know how anyone can say Build repeated the same arc with Sento over and over and not get tired of Kouta doing the character development equivalent of donuts in a wal-mart parking lot. As the person who said that about Build specifically, I think you'll find that I absolutely would not say that Kouta was handled any better. I totally agree that was a much worse situation, in fact.
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Jan 9, 2019 18:12
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Oh right I forgot the other major criticism of Gaim which is that its the worst to its female cast than any modern Rider has been before or since which is a low loving bar to clear so good job Urobuchi!
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Jan 9, 2019 18:13
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PMush Perfect posted:Even Wizard has excellent aesthetics. A cool suit with a cool belt, cool upgrades, and cool powers. Shame about everything else. Wizard has some of the best suit and belt aesthetics in KR. The fight scenes were great too. One of the things that I'll keep repeating about it is how it's ultimately a poster child for wasted potential. It's a disappointment of direction despite having the raw elements for a great series.
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Jan 9, 2019 18:13
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Ignis posted:Build movie's up, the product of the luck of the gods (a combination of no work interrupting us, a very short script for nichiasa movie standards, and virtually no signs whatsoever to typeset). It's a very entertaining movie directed by one of the best directors Rider has to offer, and we hope you enjoy it! Thanks for all your hard work!
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Jan 9, 2019 18:20
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Monathin posted:Oh right I forgot the other major criticism of Gaim which is that its the worst to its female cast than any modern Rider has been before or since which is a low loving bar to clear so good job Urobuchi! Nothing will beat Ghost in that regard. Minato may have had a terrible goal but at least she was consistently written as competent and dangerous (so long as you weren't a tier above in power, because Gaim cared about power levels a lot). That's far more than I can say for Alia, whose greatest accomplishment as a Kamen Rider was transforming, since she was then beaten in a single move (her move, at that) and she never got to transform again. And, of course, it's not like she did much more outside of her extremely short lived Rider identity, either.
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Jan 9, 2019 18:26
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For all its faults, Drive was better about that than most. Kiriko was kind of a romance object and a waste of potential, but at least she was able to do things besides just damsel. She even fought for a little while!
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Jan 9, 2019 18:34
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Minato's entire identity revolved around Kaito (who's own writing was hilariously derailed to shoehorn the whole psuedo-SMT angle after a point) and literally gave her life for him without a second thought. Mai had a singular moment where she seemed able to actually do anything useful but because, I dunno, Plot she actually causes everything to happen and literally loses agency and control of herself as a result and is literally The Prize at the end of the whole final showdoen. I'd say those are both significantly worse. Monathin fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 18:35
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Xelkelvos posted:Wizard has some of the best suit and belt aesthetics in KR. The fight scenes were great too. One of the things that I'll keep repeating about it is how it's ultimately a poster child for wasted potential. It's a disappointment of direction despite having the raw elements for a great series. This is probably going to be a hot take, but the only real problem with Wizard was Koyomi. Unfortunately, the entire show revolved around her in one form or another, so that's kind-of a huge issue.
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Jan 9, 2019 18:43
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PMush Perfect posted:For all its faults, Drive was better about that than most. Kiriko was kind of a romance object and a waste of potential, but at least she was able to do things besides just damsel. She even fought for a little while! The thing is that there are two parts of drive. First half Shinnosuke has problems finding his Drive, Kiriko can actually fight even though she's not Drive and is interested in Chase. Second half Shinnosuke is perfect cop and Kiriko cannot fight and loves the cop. Plus they start mocking Rinna a lot more for being unmarried if I remember.
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Jan 9, 2019 18:56
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King of Solomon posted:This is probably going to be a hot take, but the only real problem with Wizard was Koyomi. Unfortunately, the entire show revolved around her in one form or another, so that's kind-of a huge issue. "Let's get a popular idol to play a central character in our year long tv show" "Oh gently caress popular idols tend to be busy, huh?"
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Jan 9, 2019 19:20
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King of Solomon posted:This is probably going to be a hot take, but the only real problem with Wizard was Koyomi. Unfortunately, the entire show revolved around her in one form or another, so that's kind-of a huge issue. That's definitely an impressively hot take. Wizard had a lot of problems. Koyomi was a big one, yeah, since her actress was apparently barely avaliable and she was an important part of the plot, but she wasn't to blame for, say, the villains being completely ineffectual, the main plot twist of the series being blatantly obvious, the sheer irrelevance of all of Haruto's group of "friends", how insanely annoying Shunpei was, Haruto's total lack of personality despite his actor being more than capable of acting (as he's shown whenever he was allowed to, such as in Dr. Pac-Man), how the series had to force Nitou into the weekly plots because it was terrible at actually giving him a role despite being by far the most enjoyable part of this trainwreck... Koyomi exists as an issue but she's one of the many.
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Jan 9, 2019 19:23
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Darth TNT posted:Did you know that the best thing about opinions is learning why other people hold an opinion different from your own? It can broaden your own understanding of the world and that person. It's great! Try it sometimes. You know what else is great about opinions? Feeling like you're being attacked for yours when we're talking about loving kids shows and that making you feel lovely when you have an entire real life to actually worry about and get poo poo done, and maybe being comforted when some one else pops up to mention that yo udon't have to worry about that nonsense. It's fine to argue, just don't get too wrapped up in it. Also taking something that doesn't mean what you imply and twisting it to mean something else entirely gently caress off
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Jan 9, 2019 19:35
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kiriko shouldn't have been in drive at all, really. she had giant flashing protagonist signs above her and shinnosuke had nothing of the sort. he was just some guy and kiriko was right there. his skill as a detective had nothing in particular to do with all the suit fighting, so that role could have just as easily belonged to a member of the supporting cast. if girls can't be the hero in japanese toy commercials then don't include girls who would be better at it than the chosen boy.
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Jan 9, 2019 19:35
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