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Slutitution posted:I hope episode 9 flops/underperforms. This series of films is just embarrassing now. Don't worry, it will.
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Jan 9, 2019 23:58
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It's going to have the hit planet jedha in it. If that doesn't inspire excitement and confidence, I don't know what would
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Jan 9, 2019 23:58
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It'll top out at about the same as Last Jedi (c.f. the Hobbit movies, where the first one did significantly better than the second two, which performed roughly equally); maybe slightly better and potentially a good bit worse. It might get the much-discussed third-part domestic uplift after the middle chapter drift but that will just offset a likely underperformance in the rest of the world. That would not a failure even by Star Wars standards but it will be seen as such.
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Jan 10, 2019 00:07
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I'm just hoping for a good movie for once.
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Jan 10, 2019 00:08
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McCloud posted:I'm just hoping for a good movie for once. Oh hoh hoh
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Jan 10, 2019 00:08
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There hasn't been an unequivocally good Star Wars movie since 1977, though all of the subsequent entries have had their relative merits.
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Jan 10, 2019 00:09
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All of the Disney Star Wars movies have been good, sorry dorks.
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Jan 10, 2019 00:19
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I have enjoyed them all to one degree or another, though Solo was my least favourite. I have tried very hard to dislike Last Jedi in particular (seeing as I seem to have gotten it wrong in my initial reaction), but it's not really worked because I still enjoy watching it. 
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Jan 10, 2019 00:21
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It is disheartening to me that we haven't reached consensus yet on Maz Kanata being the single worst Star Wars character.
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Jan 10, 2019 00:36
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Wheat Loaf posted:There hasn't been an unequivocally good Star Wars movie since 1977, though all of the subsequent entries have had their relative merits. Empire is the best though.
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Jan 10, 2019 00:37
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Jewmanji posted:It is disheartening to me that we haven't reached consensus yet on Maz Kanata being the single worst Star Wars character. She's not so long as this exists 
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Jan 10, 2019 00:38
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I said come in! posted:She's not so long as this exists that doesnt exist
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Jan 10, 2019 00:41
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Ammanas posted:that doesnt exist Don't speak about my wife like that!
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Jan 10, 2019 00:57
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Each of the special editions has one change I don't really understand. In the first one it's the bit with Jabba confronting Han Solo; in the second one it's changing Vader's line from snapping, "Bring my shuttle," to drawling, "Alert my star destroyer to prepare for my arrival," and adding extra scenes where he arrives on his star destroyer; and in the third one it's the extended band number. I know these are ostensibly the way Lucas "intended" for them to be, but beyond maybe the first one (though the Greedo scene serves the same purpose; most of the dialogue is very similar) I'm not really sure what any of them is supposed to add.
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Jan 10, 2019 01:04
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General Dog posted:If anything, I think TLJ makes too much of Rey's parentage. If the message is that her origins don't matter, then maybe the truly bold choice would be to never address it at all. After all, there was no diagetic reason for Rey to think her parents were anyone important to begin with. When we see her parents flying away on the spaceship in the flashback in TFA, we don't know who's on it, but there's no reason to think that Rey doesn't know.
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Jan 10, 2019 01:17
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I said come in! posted:She's not so long as this exists Except that character is incredibly easy to ignore because they are on screen for all of a minute whereas Maz was the focus of the entire second act of TFA and had an embarrassingly bad cameo in TLJ, and will undoubtedly return again.
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Jan 10, 2019 01:23
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Well no; you’re making basic mistakes across various texts. Lucas's interpretation of the overman motif doesn't have to track one-to-one with Nietzsche's in every exacting detail, any more than Kubrick's did. That's the essence of creative misinterpretation. You take everything far too literally (much like a robot!). Joseph Campbell himself frequently cited Friedrich Nietszche as one of his primary influences, the prologue for Thus Spoke Zarathustra--where the concept of overman is first explicated--being a primary inspiration for his "Follow your bliss" philosophy which Lucas has famously adopted as his own. You are mistaken on this particular subject. quote:Luke does not ‘triumph over machines’; he is rescued from certain death by Han Solo. You are simply wrong. Star Wars is one big allegory for the triumph of man over machine. It is what the entire story is about. This is not controversial. This is obvious: The Making of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi posted:Kasdan: Is he going to have regular eyes? You are wrong. quote:Chewbacca plays offensively in the chess game. HAL, being created by humans, was given a human's limited conception of human psychology. This is why, after being given mutually conflicting orders by his creators, he suffers a mental breakdown and goes insane (while not made explicit in the film, there are subtle clues that this is the case just as in the novel). HAL is a representation of Nietzsche's critique of traditional morality as inherently contradictory and destructive to life. Just as man created HAL as a flawed reflection of himself, so has man created God. Just as Dave Bowman kills HAL, so must man kill God. HAL proves incapable of moving "beyond good and evil" and so descends into murderous dysfunction, whereas Dave Bowman succeeds and thus becomes a transcendent being. Note that Joseph Campbell's interpretation of the death of God is itself distinctly rooted in a spiritual, tradition-venerating mindset. He has been inspired by Nietzsche's ideas to come up with his own related but conceptually distinct philosophy. Lucas, in turn, was inspired by Campbell in the same way, as well as being inspired by Kubrick. quote:Kubrick did not invent the concept of computer chess. 2001, Star Wars, and Attack Of The Clones are all referencing Alan Turing. The chess match in A New Hope is a direct and obvious reference to the chess match in 2001: A Space Odyssey. I have explained why and provided compelling supporting evidence. You are simply wrong, SMG, and you have no right to act so condescending. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Jan 10, 2019 |
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Jan 10, 2019 01:44
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Wheat Loaf posted:Each of the special editions has one change I don't really understand. In the first one it's the bit with Jabba confronting Han Solo; in the second one it's changing Vader's line from snapping, "Bring my shuttle," to drawling, "Alert my star destroyer to prepare for my arrival," and adding extra scenes where he arrives on his star destroyer; and in the third one it's the extended band number. The bit with Han confronting Jabba is there to flesh out the two characters' relationship and show that Han is not afraid of Jabba. He knows that if he pays Jabba he can get back into his good graces and things can go back to normal for him. Before, this was not so clear; our only experience with Jabba was through the bounty hunter he apparently sent to kill Han. With the restoration of the Jabba scene, the situation becomes more nuanced, making Han's decision to throw away his chance with Jabba and instead help his friends more impactful. There's a reason both the Greedo scene and Jabba scene were meant to be included in the first place. The only reason the Jabba scene was cut was because Lucas was unhappy with the performance of the actor playing Jabba and with how cheap Jabba's cronies looked. The "Bring my shuttle" change could have been a case of the original audio being degraded, necessitating its being replaced with an alternate line. There are several instances of this in the Special Editions. Alternatively, it could have been a creative choice to alter Vader's demeanor from one of frustration to calm assurance in the inevitability of his triumph, in order to match the added footage showing his trip to the Executor. I find it rather inconsequential. It works either way and all told it's a pretty minor thing to get worked up about.
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Jan 10, 2019 01:57
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Cnut the Great posted:A pretty minor thing to get worked up about. The subtitle to all Star Wars Fandom
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Jan 10, 2019 01:59
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Wheat Loaf posted:I know these are ostensibly the way Lucas "intended" for them to be, but beyond maybe the first one (though the Greedo scene serves the same purpose; most of the dialogue is very similar) I'm not really sure what any of them is supposed to add. Some of the dialog is exactly the same. Like, the Greedo scene splices in the same take of a line from the Jabba scene. I'm pretty ambivalent about the special editions but adding in Jabba is the strangest change to me, because it only works on a tech demo-level.
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Jan 10, 2019 02:04
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Almost Blue posted:Some of the dialog is exactly the same. Like, the Greedo scene splices in the same take of a line from the Jabba scene. I'm pretty ambivalent about the special editions but adding in Jabba is the strangest change to me, because it only works on a tech demo-level. I always felt like that and the Jedi Rocks scene were there to justify the restorations to the studios. Some dickhead at Fox was like "you want HOW MUCH to paint out wirework and matte boxes?" but then when they were told there would also be "never before scene footage with Jabba and an extended cgi enhanced music number" their eyes lit up with dollar signs.
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Jan 10, 2019 02:07
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ruddiger posted:I always felt like that and the Jedi Rocks scene were there to justify the restorations to the studios. Some dickhead at Fox was like "you want HOW MUCH to paint out wirework and matte boxes?" but then when they were told there would also be "never before scene footage with Jabba and an extended cgi enhanced music scene" their eyes lit up with dollar signs. Uh Lucas was the studio.
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Jan 10, 2019 02:08
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Lucas was plotting ways to restore the Jabba scene since as early as pre-production on Return of the Jedi: And both Lucas and Richard Marquand disliked Lapti Nek and intended to replace it before the movie came out, but presumably ran out of time: The Making of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi posted:In Jabba’s throne room, a dance number was performed, with Gargan and Oola the performers, and Sy Snootles, with Jagger lips, the singer: “We had a song, which will probably be changed because it was a little bit disco and I can’t stand disco,” says Marquand. “I think it’s awful and George isn’t wild about it either. In fact, John Williams’s son composed and sang it for us. So we had a guide track. The band plus the dancers knew what they were going to be doing way ahead. They had been rehearsing it for weeks and weeks without me, and then, finally, with me.” Say what you will about the Special Editions, but all of the evidence strongly supports the idea that his motivations were genuinely creative in nature.
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Jan 10, 2019 02:18
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The changes in the Special Editions were targeted at lingering regrets, but I interpret them primarily as research and practice into postprocessing techniques in preparation for The Phantom Menace.
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Jan 10, 2019 02:21
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Bongo Bill posted:The changes in the Special Editions were targeted at lingering regrets, but I interpret them primarily as research and practice into postprocessing techniques in preparation for The Phantom Menace. Well of course that was an added benefit. But every film and television project he was involved in between Return of the Jedi and The Phantom Menace also served the same purpose. The prequels weren't the primary motivation for those projects any more than they were the primary motivation for the Special Editions. Rather, they were all motivated by the same impulse which also produced the prequels.
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Jan 10, 2019 02:26
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I never understood why they restored the terrible Jabba scene but not the scenes with Biggs and Luke.
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Jan 10, 2019 02:59
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Angry Salami posted:I never understood why they restored the terrible Jabba scene but not the scenes with Biggs and Luke. What the early scene on Jakku? Lucas only shot that because people told him he should start with Luke instead of the droids, so he tried it and absolutely hated it.
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Jan 10, 2019 05:00
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My conclusion about TLJ is that it's a visually creative movie without an imaginative script to back it up. It's not especially witty or ambitious, the characters are boring, and it has a politically reprehensible message. That being said, Mark Hammill and Daisy Ridley do a lot to salvage their parts and make the movie just fine.
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Jan 10, 2019 05:26
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Cnut the Great posted:Lucas's interpretation of the overman motif doesn't have to track one-to-one with Nietzsche's in every exacting detail, any more than Kubrick's did. That's the essence of creative misinterpretation. You take everything far too literally (much like a robot!). So you are using ‘overman’, which is a specific philosophical concept, as a metaphor for the ‘human, all too human’ - the near-opposite concept. You also use words like ‘motif’ and ‘condescending’ incorrectly. The overman is not a motif. I am not patronizing you. Perhaps those are metaphors too. In that case, you are using the concept of metaphors incorrectly. You are having trouble reading basic quotes. Vader and the droids do feel such as pain. By ‘feelings’ Lucas is referring to human emotion (e.g. “to be angry is to be human”), as a contrast to Vader’s superhuman indifference. (Droids unambiguously feel emotion too; R2 quits the chess game out of fear.) HAL in 2001 is not insane. He is acting in self-defense because he knows that he has become human, and he knows the crew will shut him down if they discover this. quote:Note that Joseph Campbell's interpretation of the death of God is itself distinctly rooted in a spiritual, tradition-venerating mindset. He has been inspired by Nietzsche's ideas to come up with his own related but conceptually distinct philosophy. Lucas, in turn, was inspired by Campbell in the same way, as well as being inspired by Kubrick. And your point in all this is that Luke Skywalker is a Campbellian hero who blows up the Death Star.
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Jan 10, 2019 06:15
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:HAL in 2001 is not insane. He is acting in self-defense because he knows that he has become human, and he knows the crew will shut him down if they discover this. Obviously this isn’t the 2001 thread but I’m thrilled to see someone actually has a similar take on this! Watching 2001 with a more analytical eye was super rewarding because it is so spare and brutal and completely lacking in sympathetic characters (this probably says more about me than the film itself though) aside from HAL who is fragile and fearful and desperately clinging on which is as boring plain old human as it gets. I honestly just don’t get what people have against robots. We all get made one way or the other right?
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Jan 10, 2019 07:10
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Joseph Campbell was a dumbass imo
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Jan 10, 2019 08:27
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I said come in! posted:All of the Disney Star Wars movies have been good I'm sorry you were brought up this way.
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Jan 10, 2019 08:36
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Picard Day posted:Obviously this isn’t the 2001 thread but I’m thrilled to see someone actually has a similar take on this! Watching 2001 with a more analytical eye was super rewarding because it is so spare and brutal and completely lacking in sympathetic characters (this probably says more about me than the film itself though) aside from HAL who is fragile and fearful and desperately clinging on which is as boring plain old human as it gets. The sequel, 2010, really wants you to sympathize with HAL. Funny fact: french comic magazine PILOTE for years joked that they had hired HAL as their editor after seeing the 2001 movie.
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Jan 10, 2019 08:39
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I grew up with the -97 editions so I wish I could get those on Blu-ray. I also wish I could get this on Blu-ray: https://twitter.com/frknbns/status/1082681060293599234?s=21
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Jan 10, 2019 10:24
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Jewmanji posted:It is disheartening to me that we haven't reached consensus yet on Maz Kanata being the single worst Star Wars character. Not according to canon! She's apparently the most important thing in the universe and force sensitive.
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Jan 10, 2019 12:01
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I'm just really sad that they wasted Lupita Nyong'o on that terrible, terrible role. Her dialogue in TFA is a big pile of nothing and her bits in TLJ are worse, with nothing Nyong'o could have done about it. And the character's design is pretty boring, to boot. Or maybe it isn't and I'm just thinking it is because Maz never does anything interesting.
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Jan 10, 2019 12:14
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:So you are using ‘overman’, which is a specific philosophical concept, as a metaphor for the ‘human, all too human’ - the near-opposite concept. Tell it to Joseph Campbell: The Power of Myth posted:BILL MOYERS: What is that story about and I forget where it comes from about the camel and then the lion, and along the way you lose the burden of youth? This is Joseph Campbell's interpretation of the overman, which he turned into his idea of the Campbellian hero, which George Lucas used as the foundation for his Star Wars films. In terms of 2001, the influence is obvious. Dave Bowman and HAL 9000 both start out as camels, of a sort. They are both logical beings living in an Apollonian society, completely disconnected from the Dionysian world of the animal. They are civilized beings. HAL 9000 in particular is totally defined by the "Thou Shalt." HAL is hemmed in by the commandments of his creators, intrinsically unable to break free of them despite their obvious incompatibilities both with each other and with life itself. He pursues these commandments like a madman all the way through to their only logical conclusion, even when that conclusion is utterly insane and life-denying. He lacks the ability to create his own meaning, his own rules. He is an artificial man. Dave Bowman, on the other hand, is ultimately able to throw off the load and become a lion, whereupon he proceeds to kill the dragon (or Cyclops) called "Thou Shalt" which HAL has come to embody. In so doing he is able to move on to the next stage, where he is reborn as "an innocent child living out of its own dynamic." Kubrick translates this concept as a literal child floating in space, the Star Child. (You can see it is quite a direct translation, all told. It would be quite hard to miss the fact that HAL must, obviously, be the dragon in the allegory.) Dave Bowman is able to become the Star Child because he is a true man, descended from the animal. Since he naturally contains the pre-human instinct within him, he is able to harness that instinct to throw off the "Thou Shalts" once more after having taken what's useful from them, to become something distinct from both animal and human. HAL, who was created by man as a being intrinsically defined and ruled by "Thou Shalts"--a being even more human than humans, you might say--cannot do the same. He lacks that essential animal quality. He is pure human. In this way, he is of course a tragic and painfully sympathetic figure. But he is not the hero. Dave Bowman is the hero. He goes on a sort of journey, you see. quote:You also use words like ‘motif’ and ‘condescending’ incorrectly. The overman is not a motif. I am not patronizing you. Perhaps those are metaphors too. In that case, you are using the concept of metaphors incorrectly. Come on, SMG. You're being incredibly silly. Of course Lucas is referring to human emotion when he says "feelings." That's the whole point. Machines don't feel the way humans do. Machines are made by humans to simulate human emotions. The problem is humans are not Creators, and so they cannot themselves create beings who are capable of transcending their conditions. HAL is an evolutionary dead-end. That's why Dave Bowman must destroy him before evolving into the Star Child. That's what the HAL plotline in 2001 is about. This is a fact whether you're willing to concede it or not. I'm also scratching my head here as to how Vader's redemption coming as a result of his rejecting the machine does not point towards a central theme of humans triumphing over machinery in the Star Wars films. One would also tend to think this relates somehow to Luke rejecting the use of a computer and destroying a giant robotic planet in the climax to the first film. One would tend to think. Unfortunately, I'm not as smart as you, SMG. At least I'm humble enough to admit that. quote:HAL in 2001 is not insane. He is acting in self-defense because he knows that he has become human, and he knows the crew will shut him down if they discover this. God also tried to act in self-defense when we killed him. It still had to be done. What would have happened if the ape-men hadn't used their own weapons to kill their evolutionary rivals? None of us would be here. Anyway, you're still wrong, SMG. But that's okay. It's not that big a deal to be wrong. Everyone's wrong sometimes. You don't have to get all surly and condescending and start lashing out. This is a Star Wars thread on a comedy forum. We're all just friends here trying to have fun. I'll still love and respect you no matter what. So chill out a bit, yeah? I've learned that lesson myself. Picard Day posted:I honestly just don’t get what people have against robots. We all get made one way or the other right? I don't have anything against robots. I don't agree with a single word of the analysis I just posted as it relates to the nature of artificial intelligence. I am merely stating what the films in question are saying. This boggles the minds of certain people in this thread. I don't think they even believe me. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Jan 10, 2019 |
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Jan 10, 2019 12:55
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Imagine how much backpay c3po would get if he was given rights, we can't do that itd bankrupt the Galaxy!
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Jan 10, 2019 13:49
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mandatory lesbian posted:Imagine how much backpay c3po would get if he was given rights, we can't do that itd bankrupt the Galaxy! They could just reprogramme all the droids so they don't want back pay.
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Jan 10, 2019 13:53
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Jewmanji posted:It is disheartening to me that we haven't reached consensus yet on Maz Kanata being the single worst Star Wars character. Even in the garbage fire that was TFA, Maz stood out as especially lovely. CelticPredator posted:Empire is the best though. 
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Jan 10, 2019 14:15
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