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Zore posted:The real question now is if Belkar is fourth who is fifth? That whole line surprised me a bit, partly because it makes Durkon seem somewhat open to the possibility of marrying another male (especially if V is the fifth choice, as some people are suggesting). It's an interesting example of how both Rich and American society have changed over the comic's run, I guess; if you go back to some of the early OotS strips, while there isn't anything really blatantly bigoted against LGBT people, it's interesting to see some of the heteronormative background assumptions (Elan and Nale at different points feel the need to adamantly deny any attraction to other males, Haley's bisexuality is one of her many deep dark secrets, Roy and Belkar seem to regard seeing Elan naked as basically the most disgusting thing ever).
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Jan 9, 2019 21:36
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It started at the baseline bawdiness of nerdy boys sitting around a table, I think it changed as a result of that being kind of embarrassing and also to tell better and more interesting stories.
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Jan 9, 2019 22:00
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Rich's storytelling has definitely evolved, both with experience and with the times. He's been pretty open even in-universe about getting better at writing female characters, for example. Durkon joking to Belkar that he's his fourth pick is probably just off-the-cuff and likely doesn't reflect careful ranking by either Rich or Durkon, but I think both's comfort with that sort of casual joke and their confidence in the audience reaction does reflect Silver's point. It might even unintentionally dovetail with the message of that particular update, where change comes through gradual exposure leading to a tipping point.
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Jan 10, 2019 02:05
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I think we've overlooked something important about the marriage rankings: where does Mr. Scruffy fall?
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Jan 10, 2019 02:15
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Random Stranger posted:I think we've overlooked something important about the marriage rankings: where does Mr. Scruffy fall? 
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Jan 10, 2019 02:29
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Silver2195 posted:it's interesting to see some of the heteronormative background assumptions (Elan and Nale at different points feel the need to adamantly deny any attraction to other males, Haley's bisexuality is one of her many deep dark secrets, Roy and Belkar seem to regard seeing Elan naked as basically the most disgusting thing ever). But on the flip side, we have Belkar macking on Roy wearing the Girdle of Femininity/Masculinity ever when he knew it was Roy. Belkar was confident enough in his own sexuality to not care.
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Jan 10, 2019 03:08
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Gynovore posted:But on the flip side, we have Belkar macking on Roy wearing the Girdle of Femininity/Masculinity ever when he knew it was Roy. Belkar was confident enough in his own sexuality to not care. That's actually the perfect example of what that person was talking about, though.
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Jan 10, 2019 03:34
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Well it probably has launched an armada of ships to sail the web.
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Jan 10, 2019 04:07
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Note that Durkon's comment here is specifically "just in the party", which is a pretty important qualifier. None of these people are likely high on his overall list of marriage options, and Belkar is near the bottom of that. Which doesn't mean that it isn't fun to try to figure out the overall rankings and who managed to score lower than Belkar, just that it's relative and someone at the top of the list can still be low outside of it. Unrelated and more seriously, Durkon's comments in the latter half of this about how people don't want to feel bad and thus refuse to acknowledge the bad they've done, which guarantees that they keep getting worse instead, is something I've actually been thinking about lately due to seeing it in some people I know. It's frustratingly difficult to get through so far. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Jan 10, 2019 |
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Jan 10, 2019 04:15
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I wouldn't be particularly thrilled to see any of my co-workers naked, so it didn't necessarily have to be " omg a dick gross barf"
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Jan 10, 2019 06:38
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Otherkinsey Scale posted:That's actually the perfect example of what that person was talking about, though. I may be misunderstanding your point, but I don't think the joke there was Belkar hitting on a male party member. I think the joke was on Roy for having his own misogynistic attitude toward Miko turned back on him. That strikes me more as a critique of homophobia than an expression of it. It's like, the idea that homophobia is a straight man's fear that men will treat him like he treats women. It's Burlew moving past the older, somewhat homophobic stuff. Roland Jones posted:Unrelated and more seriously, Durkon's comments in the latter half of this about how people don't want to feel bad and thus refuse to acknowledge the bad they've done, which guarantees that they keep getting worse instead, is something I've actually been thinking about lately due to seeing it in some people I know. It's frustratingly difficult to get through so far. I feel like this is a whole trend in pop culture recently. The Good Place, Steven Universe, and Bojack Horseman all deal with this a lot, just to name a few things off the top of my head. Some kind of reaction to the "let's go apeshit and lash out all around us" reaction to 9/11, maybe?
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Jan 10, 2019 08:30
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Johnny Aztec posted:I wouldn't be particularly thrilled to see any of my co-workers naked, so it didn't necessarily have to be " omg a dick gross barf" Also, when the OotS entered Dorukon's dungeon, most of them had only known each other for a few days, tops. Regardless of orientation, that's still awkward acquaintance territory for many people, particularly the more modest ones like Roy and Durkon. Contrast with Roy's resurrection, after the party had been travelling together for so long that he comes back naked and is like "yeah, whatever, deal with it." So you could probably make a case for claiming Roy wasn't homophobic, although he certainly did do some shady stuff like objectify Haley and Miko before his character growth scene directly addressed it. Eugene wasn't exactly a shining beacon of how to treat women and Roy's fighter college classmates were all frat boy stereotypes, so we can assume there's some cultural misogyny in the background of the Stickiverse.
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Jan 10, 2019 08:53
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Johnny Aztec posted:I wouldn't be particularly thrilled to see any of my co-workers naked, That's how I interpreted it too. But then at some of the call centers I worked at, guys I considered friends were horrible about pulling up thier pants when they were sliding down sitting I managed to a lot of rear end to where I still feel I would've been fine spending the rest of my life not seeing those asses.
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Jan 10, 2019 08:54
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Johnny Aztec posted:I wouldn't be particularly thrilled to see any of my co-workers naked, so it didn't necessarily have to be " omg a dick gross barf" Also, in the case of the genderswapped Roy and Belkar, y'know, Belkar is an incorrigible monster who finds the value of sentient life to be trifling at best. Not exactly a compelling pairing, when you're a stereotypically Lawful Good type. I'd think that'd take precedence over "ewww gay lol" in any case.
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Jan 10, 2019 12:55
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:Also, in the case of the genderswapped Roy and Belkar, y'know, Belkar is an incorrigible monster who finds the value of sentient life to be trifling at best. Not exactly a compelling pairing, when you're a stereotypically Lawful Good type. I'd think that'd take precedence over "ewww gay lol" in any case. You say that, but while he wasn't receptive to Sabine's advances, he wasn't as initially repulsed, and she's a literal demon/devil.
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Jan 10, 2019 13:05
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Who's that V is carrying? I just reread the past 20 strips, and there was nothing to remind me. (Incidentally - Minrah's big secret in #1135 - the one she was worried about, and didn't want Durkon to know, and then Thor told her it's totally okay and he's cool with it - am I the only one who thinks it's that she's gay?)
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Jan 10, 2019 16:43
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Parahexavoctal posted:Who's that V is carrying? I just reread the past 20 strips, and there was nothing to remind me. It's Minrah's corpse. Presumably, Durkon asked V to bring it along so that when everything was over, he could raise her.
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Jan 10, 2019 16:45
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Parahexavoctal posted:Who's that V is carrying? I just reread the past 20 strips, and there was nothing to remind me. I figured it was that or she was dating a druid.
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Jan 10, 2019 16:46
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Ponsonby Britt posted:I may be misunderstanding your point, but I don't think the joke there was Belkar hitting on a male party member. Yes, and it was, respectively. To review: this conversation started with the gag about Durkon and Belkar marrying each other, and how that wasn't treated as unusual because of their genders, when it would have been in the comics from 15 years ago. And the gag of Belkar hitting on Roy when Belkar perceived him as a woman hinges on the fact that Belkar wouldn't otherwise hit on him. That's it, that's the whole joke. But more importantly, Ponsonby Britt posted:It's Burlew moving past the older, somewhat homophobic stuff. It's from 2005. It is the older, somewhat homophobic stuff! Forget that specific joke--by the author's own admission, he regrets the entire storyline it took place in.
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Jan 10, 2019 17:58
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Parahexavoctal posted:(Incidentally - Minrah's big secret in #1135 - the one she was worried about, and didn't want Durkon to know, and then Thor told her it's totally okay and he's cool with it - am I the only one who thinks it's that she's gay?) It's the real world implication but in OotS land we've seen that nobody gives two shits about that so it can't be about being gay. Which just leads to people making up really absurd possibilities. I'd actually not be surprised if we find out what it was given it's likely that she'll get raised, and it'll be something silly that Durkon will be initially shocked by and then go, "Well, Thor said it was okay." I'm going to say that she likes whiskey instead of ale.
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Jan 10, 2019 19:18
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I am pretty sure it's a 'god knows when you masturbate' joke.
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Jan 10, 2019 20:08
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Random Stranger posted:It's the real world implication but in OotS land we've seen that nobody gives two shits about that so it can't be about being gay. it's not totally out of the question that the sky pirates would have different tolerance of sexuality than dwarf society
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Jan 10, 2019 20:17
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Durkon's mom specifically said that all she wanted for him was to settle down with "a nice lass or lad." Given that we've seen no example of dwarven homophobia and how casually that line was dropped, I really doubt it'd be an issue. I assumed that it was related to her desire to stay dead and in Valhalla, but if it never comes up again it was probably something the reader isn't meant to figure out.
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Jan 10, 2019 20:54
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Hell, wasn't one of the (Cliffport? Azure City?) cops gay, as well? (and able to nonchalantly talk about it as well, instead of a whispered "don't tell anybody, but...")
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Jan 10, 2019 21:02
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Ugly John posted:Hell, wasn't one of the (Cliffport? Azure City?) cops gay, as well? (and able to nonchalantly talk about it as well, instead of a whispered "don't tell anybody, but...") Yeah, when Elan tries to use his illusion spell to seduce two guards in Cliffport after Nale frames him one is in a committed relationship and the other is gay and its not a big deal. Edit: Yeah, found it. And its from way back in '06 http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html Zore fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jan 10, 2019 |
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Jan 10, 2019 21:10
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It was actually a weird theological issue that doesn't make much sense unless you've been briefed on several layers of context, like most things that theologians worry about. I think having things that you're uncomfortable talking about with others, not even necessarily full-blown secrets, is an experience that everybody can sympathize with, especially how an omniscient being could comfort them without calling it out specifically, and it doesn't need to be told to the audience. I mean unless the thread wants to have a big long conversation about that one weird skin condition you have.
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Jan 10, 2019 22:19
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SlothfulCobra posted:It was actually a weird theological issue that doesn't make much sense unless you've been briefed on several layers of context, like most things that theologians worry about.
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Jan 10, 2019 22:50
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Ugly John posted:Hell, wasn't one of the (Cliffport? Azure City?) cops gay, as well? (and able to nonchalantly talk about it as well, instead of a whispered "don't tell anybody, but...") And there were some paladins. No, Minrah was definitely asking about something other than homosexuality, even though it also was definitely intended as a reference to that for the reader.
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Jan 10, 2019 22:51
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Maybe she hates beer
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Jan 10, 2019 22:59
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sebmojo posted:Maybe she hates beer Thor would not accept such vile heresy so easily.
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Jan 10, 2019 23:02
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Also that she already accepted having a pint with him down in Valhalla first before getting raised.
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Jan 10, 2019 23:16
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It may have some kind of implications, but I feel like that exchange was written to rapidly characterize Thor as a kind and relatable god, not an old testament god
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Jan 10, 2019 23:53
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I read it as a 'generic private secret thing like most people have'.
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Jan 10, 2019 23:59
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The only things we know about it is that Thor is cool with it, and she would rather not have the subject broached in front of Durkon. We don't know if it's Durkon specifically or just because he's the only other mortal around. We do know that it's not distaste for beer or love for trees, though. It's likely inconsequential and just to establish Thor is actually a cool guy.
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Jan 11, 2019 00:34
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She prefers dubs.
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Jan 11, 2019 02:40
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I wonder why the gods wove daddy issues into the fabric of this world? http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0401.html 
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Jan 11, 2019 03:19
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Facebook Aunt posted:I wonder why the gods wove daddy issues into the fabric of this world? There's probably some western demigod of lovely parenting or something.
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Jan 11, 2019 03:27
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Parahexavoctal posted:(Incidentally - Minrah's big secret in #1135 - the one she was worried about, and didn't want Durkon to know, and then Thor told her it's totally okay and he's cool with it - am I the only one who thinks it's that she's gay?) I mean thats basically what the subtext was saying super hard, yeah. E: you can make arguments about how the metatext may imply something else, but let's be honest that whole thing was basically Minrah coming out of the closet to a trusted adult. What she did is basically word for word what happened for me, anyway. Who What Now fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Jan 11, 2019 |
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Jan 11, 2019 03:34
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Cat Mattress posted:The only things we know about it is that Thor is cool with it, and she would rather not have the subject broached in front of Durkon. We don't know if it's Durkon specifically or just because he's the only other mortal around. We do know that it's not distaste for beer or love for trees, though. It's likely inconsequential and just to establish Thor is actually a cool guy. It's her fursona. As a god Thor is pretty numb to weird fetish stuff.
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Jan 11, 2019 07:02
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wdarkk posted:It's her fursona. As a god Thor is pretty numb to weird fetish stuff. Animals would be fine, but her weird fetish is dressing up like an evil tree. That'd be pretty shameful in dwarven society. But happily Thor's cool with her firsona.
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Jan 11, 2019 08:00
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