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Was it 3e or 2e as well where immediately before publishing it turned out all the art was just traced tohou fanart?
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Jan 10, 2019 08:34
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spectralent posted:Was it 3e or 2e as well where immediately before publishing it turned out all the art was just traced tohou fanart? 3e had the Touhou problem. 2e is the one that just used public domain art for everything all the way through, IIRC.
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Jan 10, 2019 08:37
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also reading those RPGnet threads you've got to laugh at the "You're allowed to say things that happened but you're not allowed to say that the process of having lied in any way implies they're a liar" stuff. Especially given the wording of it implies it's purely game developers who can't be liars and that presumably everyone else is capable of deciet.
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Jan 10, 2019 08:46
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Yeah, it's the classic RPG.net "you can lay out the facts but you can't state the inevitable conclusion of those facts" problem. Like in the second link, where I pretty much establish that based on the information we have it looks like we have "2+2" in front of us, but then a mod sweeps in and warns everyone against saying "=4".
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Jan 10, 2019 10:42
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I helped edit Legends Of The Wulin, never got paid, no shock there.
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Jan 10, 2019 13:14
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RiotGearEpsilon posted:I helped edit Legends Of The Wulin, never got paid, no shock there. I helped write Legends Of The Wulin, did get paid, but it took a lot of time and prodding. Can confirm that others didn't get paid.
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Jan 10, 2019 13:33
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FMguru posted:He was the US distributor. Oh, that explains why I literally had to go to London to find my copy. Glad I did, though!
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Jan 10, 2019 13:45
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That said, people who want to get Nobilis 2e in print-on-demand should be getting some good news this year.
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Jan 10, 2019 15:26
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Sometimes it feels weird to me that I literally grew up with that forum, still post about RPGs all day, but don't bother posting there. I remember the bad old days, but surely there was a way to get rid of the "I don't hate gay people, I'm just saying it's a fact they'll burn in hell for all eternity" freaks without the obnoxious moderation they have now.
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Jan 10, 2019 15:28
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spectralent posted:also reading those RPGnet threads you've got to laugh at the "You're allowed to say things that happened but you're not allowed to say that the process of having lied in any way implies they're a liar" stuff. "You have admitted to starving and abusing a friend of mine and that makes me angry." "Whoa i'm going to have to give you a 6 hour probation for that."
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Jan 10, 2019 16:56
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Roadie posted:3e had the Touhou problem. 2e is the one that just used public domain art for everything all the way through, IIRC. 2e actually has a lot of really excellent custom art. It was a beautiful well produced book, which makes the theft of all those physical copies (and the troubled production of 3e) even more frustrating. Public domain art has been used in some smaller side supplements, like 3e's "how the heck does the Treasure attribute even work" minibook. How will 2e print on demand work with its weird coffee table book dimensions? Can they do PoD runs of custom dimensions, or is the whole thing being reformatted to fit typical PoD scale?
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Jan 10, 2019 17:09
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Rand Brittain posted:That said, people who want to get Nobilis 2e in print-on-demand should be getting some good news this year.
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Jan 10, 2019 17:12
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Kurieg posted:"You have admitted to starving and abusing a friend of mine and that makes me angry." Seems like we are more alike than I thought
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Jan 10, 2019 17:19
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Plutonis posted:Seems like we are more alike than I thought I'm pretty sure that we can all unite behind the truth that RPG.net moderation is terrible. If you stop people from expressing themselves they're just going to get more creative about expressing themselves within the framework of rules you give them. "Don't be a dick" can be subjective but it's also effective.
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Jan 10, 2019 17:32
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Fun fact for layout talk: the Nobilis 2e layout is almost identical to the tufte-latex template for LaTeX (fonts and all), just with the page size and text area increased and two columns squeezed in.
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Jan 10, 2019 17:43
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Warthur posted:Will it have the same form factor as the original Nobilis 2E? Having owned it (no longer, I'm afraid I'm of the school of thought that the Emperor has no clothes when it comes to there being an actual functional game there) my strong recollection is that the physical presentation was really the most impressive aspect of it. (I'd even name it as one of the games which really drove production standards up across the board in the industry... which is a bit of a mixed blessing given how it's rendered unfashionable simple, basic layouts which would previously have been considered totally acceptable, and which would have been much more within both the budgets and the skill sets of some smaller publishers who've broken their backs on the altar of full colour illos and fancy layout). No. Since the mountain would not come to Mohammed, we’re reformatting the mountain to letter size using the template from Game of Powers and, I dunno, Kickstarting new art or something.
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Jan 10, 2019 17:44
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Rand Brittain posted:No. Since the mountain would not come to Mohammed, we’re reformatting the mountain to letter size using the template from Game of Powers and, I dunno, Kickstarting new art or something.
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Jan 10, 2019 18:05
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remusclaw posted:Considering that aesthetics are pretty much the only strong point 2nd has over 3rd, doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of reprinting it? Aesthetics aside, 2e has a tremendous amount of GM advice and worked examples of running the game, which 3e entirely lacks and is more or less edition-neutral. Edit: rereading that RPG.net thread, Rand said Nobilis 4e was being planned post-Chuubo’s... is that still going to happen? Because I definitely think the game needs either a new edition or a heavily re-edited version of the current one. Parkreiner fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Jan 10, 2019 |
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Jan 10, 2019 18:41
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If you’ve seen The Game of Powers, you’ll know that the aesthetic works more or less the same way in letter size. Jenna is currently working on Glitch, a game about Excrucian Strategists. Feedback and testing these mechanics will become part of Nobilis 4e thereafter.
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Jan 10, 2019 18:52
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That's cool. Glad to know. I had always heard the 2nd edition had issues of clarity and rules that the third fixed, but it having useful content unique to it is absolutely a reason to bring it back even with a different look.
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Jan 10, 2019 18:57
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Roadie posted:Fun fact for layout talk: the Nobilis 2e layout is almost identical to the tufte-latex template for LaTeX (fonts and all), just with the page size and text area increased and two columns squeezed in. I mean, it was James Wallis doing it (presumably) so it could easily be either/both.
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Jan 10, 2019 19:31
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Kurieg posted:I'm pretty sure that we can all unite behind the truth that RPG.net moderation is terrible. The particularly annoying thing is it still ended up being a hugely subjective system because people who were known to be alleged good posters got away with ridiculous line-dancing shenanigans that someone who'd said gently caress once wasn't because their history.
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Jan 10, 2019 20:41
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It still regularly surprises me that that post from Bill Coffin absolutely eviscerating Siembieda is still up. But then again knocks on Palladium seem to get an easier ride over there. (Possibly because Palladium is its own weird ecosystem and nobody with influence at RPG.net actually wants to freelance for them?)
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Jan 10, 2019 21:42
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They want creators to post there without fear of criticism. Kevin's never going to post there and he has a bad reputation in the industry, so there you go.
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Jan 10, 2019 22:23
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Halloween Jack posted:They want creators to post there without fear of criticism. Kevin's never going to post there and he has a bad reputation in the industry, so there you go.
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Jan 10, 2019 22:37
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It is kinda interesting that as 'protected' as a game developer is that comparatively few post there. I mean, they kicked off the likes of Jimmy D ages ago, but you've got Greg Stolze, some current and former OPP folks and some smaller indie folks, and a lot of them aren't exactly regular.
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Jan 10, 2019 23:22
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The protection for designers and developers was an artifact of the very early days of the web, where RPGnet was the one place you could find news about upcoming products and interact with developers. But here in 2019 if I'm Robin Laws and I have something I want to share, or I as a gamer want to see what John Wick has been up to recently, well there a thousand more focused places to do that than an aging webforum (twitter, instagram, google+, their personal website, their company website, facebook, kickstarter page, etc etc). It's just a vestigial leftover at this point.
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Jan 10, 2019 23:29
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I mean, developers don't actually get any more protections than any member of the board does.
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Jan 10, 2019 23:49
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Rand Brittain posted:I mean, developers don't actually get any more protections than any member of the board does. In theory yes, in practice no. Since it's difficult to critique a work if the author is on the board and can defend themselves without fear of real reprisal from critics because they have to dance around a billion weasel rules to say things as bold as "Your Writing Is Bad"
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Jan 11, 2019 00:23
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Has anyone ever actually ran a game of Nobilis? My impression from reading 2e was that it was intended as a lovely artistic... thing but maybe not an actual game.
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Jan 11, 2019 01:38
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Kurieg posted:In theory yes, in practice no. Since it's difficult to critique a work if the author is on the board and can defend themselves without fear of real reprisal from critics because they have to dance around a billion weasel rules to say things as bold as "Your Writing Is Bad" Of course, that obviously isn't the case because, as has been pointed out, the rule doesn't get enforced if someone's clearly not going to show up on RPG.net anyway. On the other hand, "We'll let it slide if the target isn't in our social circles" is kind of a terrible attitude.
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Jan 11, 2019 02:04
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BinaryDoubts posted:Has anyone ever actually ran a game of Nobilis? My impression from reading 2e was that it was intended as a lovely artistic... thing but maybe not an actual game. I ran a Nobilis 2e game that lasted about six months. The rules are perfectly serviceable, they just require a different approach than what you'd bring to many other games, due to the sheer breadth and scope of PC capabilities.
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Jan 11, 2019 02:26
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Warthur posted:Also, in principle let's say I poo poo out a few freebie products on DriveThruRPG. Immediately, I am a developer, and therefore regarded as coming under the protection of the rules by the letter of the rules, even if I never set foot in RPG.net. Like, if Trump put out Art of the Deal: the Storygame they'd in principle have to encourage people to seriously change the way they talk about him. The problem is their rules are lovely and shouldn't be enforced as they currently exist *anyways*.
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Jan 11, 2019 02:38
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BinaryDoubts posted:Has anyone ever actually ran a game of Nobilis? My impression from reading 2e was that it was intended as a lovely artistic... thing but maybe not an actual game. I've run a few sessions of 2e, but more 3e games.
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Jan 11, 2019 03:49
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Falstaff posted:I ran a Nobilis 2e game that lasted about six months. The rules are perfectly serviceable, they just require a different approach than what you'd bring to many other games, due to the sheer breadth and scope of PC capabilities. Yes, this. My own Nobilis 2e game really started ticking over when I accepted that even moreso than usual, my players were going to come up with ideas I never saw coming, so I started throwing out problems I myself had no solution to, in full confidence that this group of gods would figure out something. For me, the 2e ruleset was valuable because it was extremely specific about what happened when miracles conflicted and who was immune to what, so I could make fairly quick adjudications about all manner of impossible things and keep the game moving briskly. I found 3e a lateral move at best, largely because it moved towards a “yes, but” kind of squishiness I found unhelpful in this context, and to be totally frank includes a lot of material I found irrelevant for Nobilis and later found a more fitting home in Chuubo’s (pretty much everything to do with mortal-scale action like Will, Intentions, Cool, Shine, etc). At this point my ideal Nobilis, barring some new amazing Moran ideas I’ve never heard of, would basically be 2e with the best of 3e hacked in (Persona, Estate properties, Bonds & Afflictions), but I’ve yet to put in the work and have a vague suspicion that the Bondfliction stuff might be a deceptively large amount of work given how many 3e subsystems it ties into.
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Jan 11, 2019 03:51
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BinaryDoubts posted:Has anyone ever actually ran a game of Nobilis? My impression from reading 2e was that it was intended as a lovely artistic... thing but maybe not an actual game. I have a longrunning 3e campaign that is more or less on hiatus because half of my group are juggling a toddler and newborn. 2e is perfectly workable too, though I'm not a fan of its imperator subsystems or the realm and spirit attributes (their 3e replacements are much better even though Treasure is a lot to wrap your head around.) 2e's roundabout problem solving due to not being able to directly affect antagonists is neat, though again I prefer 3e's player-defined wounds system. There's more game there than a lot of people seem to think, definitely more than other diceless ancestor games like Amber Diceless.
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Jan 11, 2019 04:33
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I debated posting about this, but screw it. There's a group out there called Take20 DND. Their Twitter page? I cannot see it as they have blocked me. As to why, I retweeted support from of being super against the idea of them hooking up with the D&D group 'The Larpening.' What's wrong with The Larpening? Well, they explicitly say they play to the 'ComicsGate crowd.' I would not be shocked to see the Usual Suspects turn out in support of them.
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Jan 21, 2019 05:18
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Dawgstar posted:I debated posting about this, but screw it. There's a group out there called Take20 DND. Their Twitter page? I cannot see it as they have blocked me. As to why, I retweeted support from of being super against the idea of them hooking up with the D&D group 'The Larpening.' What's wrong with The Larpening? Well, they explicitly say they play to the 'ComicsGate crowd.' I would not be shocked to see the Usual Suspects turn out in support of them. lol I checked out The Larpening and one of the first things on their timeline is a shoutout by Doug TenNapel. Are people still trying to make DnDgate a thing or did that fizzle for good?
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Jan 21, 2019 06:34
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Nah it all fell back into the baseline misogyny of rpgs fairly quickly
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Jan 21, 2019 07:14
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Wrestlepig posted:Nah it all fell back into the baseline misogyny of rpgs fairly quickly Yeah, I think they're trying to use the serious air quotes legitimacy of ComicsGate to springboard now. Why form your own chud movement when there's one right there?
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Jan 21, 2019 13:15
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