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Blisster
Mar 10, 2010

What you are listening to are musicians performing psychedelic music under the influence of a mind altering chemical called...

Raxivace posted:

I finally finished Armored Trooper VOTOMS. That last arc was quite fun- it really seemed like proto-Xenogears or something.


Is there anywhere to watch the TV series online? I am having no luck finding it. Will I ruin the experience if I watch the movies first (I think they're all on youtube).

I have been getting into some mecha shows recently after not having watched any since like... Gundam Wing a decade ago. I am running a mech based tabletop RPG for some buddies so I need inspiration! So far I've watched Iron Blooded Orphans, Gundam Unicorn, Gundam 00 (season 1 only), and Aldnoah.Zero. Gotta say I liked IBO the best, although it did drop the ball in a couple spots.

I just finished Aldnoah yesterday and it was really disappointing in the end. The first couple battles were great, then things got gimmicky super fast, and most of the interesting ideas brought up in the show go nowhere. Also I hated the CGI mechs.

What are some good shows to check out? Particularly on the more hard military sci-fi or cyberpunk ends of things. Been thinking of checking out 8th MS team or Bubblegum Crisis (although this looks fanservicey as hell) next.

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1st Stage Midboss
Oct 29, 2011

Blisster posted:

Is there anywhere to watch the TV series online? I am having no luck finding it. Will I ruin the experience if I watch the movies first (I think they're all on youtube).

Votoms is on HIDIVE.

GorfZaplen
Jan 20, 2012

Blisster posted:

Is there anywhere to watch the TV series online? I am having no luck finding it. Will I ruin the experience if I watch the movies first (I think they're all on youtube).

I have been getting into some mecha shows recently after not having watched any since like... Gundam Wing a decade ago. I am running a mech based tabletop RPG for some buddies so I need inspiration! So far I've watched Iron Blooded Orphans, Gundam Unicorn, Gundam 00 (season 1 only), and Aldnoah.Zero. Gotta say I liked IBO the best, although it did drop the ball in a couple spots.

I just finished Aldnoah yesterday and it was really disappointing in the end. The first couple battles were great, then things got gimmicky super fast, and most of the interesting ideas brought up in the show go nowhere. Also I hated the CGI mechs.

What are some good shows to check out? Particularly on the more hard military sci-fi or cyberpunk ends of things. Been thinking of checking out 8th MS team or Bubblegum Crisis (although this looks fanservicey as hell) next.

08th MS Team would be good, Megazone 23 is a good cyberpunk mecha, Fang of the Sun Dougram is the hardest military mecha, with lots of hand to hand combat along with the robots. Very long though!

Marx Headroom
May 10, 2007

AT LAST! A show with nonono commercials!
Fallen Rib

Blisster posted:

What are some good shows to check out? Particularly on the more hard military sci-fi or cyberpunk ends of things. Been thinking of checking out 8th MS team or Bubblegum Crisis (although this looks fanservicey as hell) next.

Have you seen Full Metal Panic? I don't like the fanservice but it's got some good stuff. It's the kinda franchise where the model kits insets have extremely detailed lore about which contractor manufactured the caseless ammunition used by the bullpup variant of a giant mech assault rifle.

I stopped watching when they turned a groping incident into a haha funny joke so ymmv

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Marx Headroom posted:

Have you seen Full Metal Panic? I don't like the fanservice but it's got some good stuff. It's the kinda franchise where the model kits insets have extremely detailed lore about which contractor manufactured the caseless ammunition used by the bullpup variant of a giant mech assault rifle.

I stopped watching when they turned a groping incident into a haha funny joke so ymmv

The kits also have interviews with the characters about the guns, which are pretty funny.

I've only watched some of the first seasons after watching all of Invisible Victory, and the mood's pretty different in that one. Basically, Full Metal Panic has two tones it alternates between. Mechs in an action movie, and high school comedy. Invisible Victory still has jokes, but it moves pretty far towards action movie.

But yeah. High school comedy means fanservice comedy and "comedy". (Quotation marks to indicate that some of that stuff works much better than others. For example, in the first episode the child soldier protagonist says that of course he's used a condom. In an emergency, they can carry a liter of water. Good stuff. On the other hand, there's a bit in the second episode where he doesn't realize he's groping the female lead's boobs, and that's not so good.)

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!
The best action sequence in Full Metal Panic is the episode where Sosuke borrows Kaname's notebook and then forgets it at home

Marx Headroom
May 10, 2007

AT LAST! A show with nonono commercials!
Fallen Rib

chiasaur11 posted:

On the other hand, there's a bit in the second episode where he doesn't realize he's groping the female lead's boobs, and that's not so good.

Yknow I was actually thinking of a completely different groping incident so there ya go

Still there's a good 3-parter in the first season called The Wind Blows At Home, it's got "Aliens but in the middle east" vibes and basically no fanservice so I'd highly recommend that and nothing else

Marx Headroom fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Jan 12, 2019

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Marx Headroom posted:

Yknow I was actually thinking of a completely different groping incident so there ya go

Still there's a good 3-parter in the first season called The Wind Blows At Home, it's got "Aliens but in the middle east" vibes and basically no fanservice so I'd highly recommend that and nothing else

That arc was written especially for the show, it wasn't in the novels at all. I don't think it was in the manga either.

Fumoffu, the second season, is 100% comedy though it has Bonta-kun so it's not totally worthless.

After the first three episodes of Invisible Victory the story will stay fairly serious until the end of the entire story, in the inevitable next season.

Blisster
Mar 10, 2010

What you are listening to are musicians performing psychedelic music under the influence of a mind altering chemical called...

Very cool, thanks! Wow this site seems to have way more stuff than crunchyroll, or more older stuff anyway.

I ended up starting Majestic Prince in the meantime, whoops. It seems pretty fun so far and I don't even mind the CGI as much, it's nice and fluid and the battles are exciting.

I have heard of FMP and that it is good. Never heard of Megazone 23 or Fang of Sun Dougram. Thanks for the recommendations!

Edit: Confirming that VOTOMS rules. I didn't realize the main character was gonna be Rambo, this is amazing.

Blisster fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Jan 12, 2019

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012

Blisster posted:

Is there anywhere to watch the TV series online? I am having no luck finding it. Will I ruin the experience if I watch the movies first (I think they're all on youtube).

I have been getting into some mecha shows recently after not having watched any since like... Gundam Wing a decade ago. I am running a mech based tabletop RPG for some buddies so I need inspiration! So far I've watched Iron Blooded Orphans, Gundam Unicorn, Gundam 00 (season 1 only), and Aldnoah.Zero. Gotta say I liked IBO the best, although it did drop the ball in a couple spots.

I just finished Aldnoah yesterday and it was really disappointing in the end. The first couple battles were great, then things got gimmicky super fast, and most of the interesting ideas brought up in the show go nowhere. Also I hated the CGI mechs.

What are some good shows to check out? Particularly on the more hard military sci-fi or cyberpunk ends of things. Been thinking of checking out 8th MS team or Bubblegum Crisis (although this looks fanservicey as hell) next.

personally i really like gundam thunderbolt, and if you liked IBO that's a pretty good reason to give it a look

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



ninjewtsu posted:

personally i really like gundam thunderbolt, and if you liked IBO that's a pretty good reason to give it a look

I'd say it depends on why someone likes IBO.

Thunderbolt has similar grit, but if you like IBO for politics, or the character dynamics, or even the way grunts were more durable than usual, Thunderbolt won't provide that.

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012

i mean, i assume that if someone is a fan of IBO, they're a fan of grit. no, thunderbolt isn't the same as rewatching IBO, it's a different anime, but i can't really see someone enjoying IBO and thunderbolt NOT being worth at least a quick look.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009

ninjewtsu posted:

i mean, i assume that if someone is a fan of IBO, they're a fan of grit. no, thunderbolt isn't the same as rewatching IBO, it's a different anime, but i can't really see someone enjoying IBO and thunderbolt NOT being worth at least a quick look.

IBO is one of my favourite Gundam shows and I hate Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt's idea of "gritty" is being petty, mean, ugly and nihilistic, whereas IBO's "gritty" is just trying to provide context for the adversity the protagonists will eventually overcome (by showing you the world won't pull its punches even against children) and ground it to make it feel more real, even at its worst.

Thunderbolt isn't gritty, it's ~edgy~.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled
It's hard to compare the two directly because the two shows are focusing on entirely different storytelling angles. IBO is man versus society while Thunderbolt is man versus self, which means that IBO focuses on society being terrible while Thunderbolt focuses on people being terrible.

Being petty, mean, ugly, and nihilistic is pretty foundational when you're trying to tell a story specifically about how war warps people into monsters, which is entirely what December Sky is about. Io is a trainwreck garbage person because trauma and conflict pushed him in that direction and he gave up and stopped fighting it, and basically the entire character story of December Sky is Darryl following that same path.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

Kanos posted:

It's hard to compare the two directly because the two shows are focusing on entirely different storytelling angles. IBO is man versus society while Thunderbolt is man versus self, which means that IBO focuses on society being terrible while Thunderbolt focuses on people being terrible.

Being petty, mean, ugly, and nihilistic is pretty foundational when you're trying to tell a story specifically about how war warps people into monsters, which is entirely what December Sky is about. Io is a trainwreck garbage person because trauma and conflict pushed him in that direction and he gave up and stopped fighting it, and basically the entire character story of December Sky is Darryl following that same path.

That said, IBO does move a little more into man versus self in S2.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Lemon-Lime posted:

IBO is one of my favourite Gundam shows and I hate Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt's idea of "gritty" is being petty, mean, ugly and nihilistic, whereas IBO's "gritty" is just trying to provide context for the adversity the protagonists will eventually overcome (by showing you the world won't pull its punches even against children) and ground it to make it feel more real, even at its worst.

Thunderbolt isn't gritty, it's ~edgy~.

It's also pretty notable how the characters react to things being lovely.

In Thunderbolt, it's "Yeah, that's how it is OUT HERE, and you gotta be TOUGH for how TERRIBLE THINGS ARE, man!"

In IBO it's "Yeah, they beat us whenever we mouthed off. Sucks, I guess. Anyway, got things to do, and everybody's had it rough one time or another."

For an obvious example, Atra's backstory's about as nasty as anything the Thunderbolt cast saw, and she's a regular bundle of sunshine.

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!

chiasaur11 posted:

It's also pretty notable how the characters react to things being lovely.

In Thunderbolt, it's "Yeah, that's how it is OUT HERE, and you gotta be TOUGH for how TERRIBLE THINGS ARE, man!"

In IBO it's "Yeah, they beat us whenever we mouthed off. Sucks, I guess. Anyway, got things to do, and everybody's had it rough one time or another."

For an obvious example, Atra's backstory's about as nasty as anything the Thunderbolt cast saw, and she's a regular bundle of sunshine.

The difference is that the IBO characters actually are in control of their own destinies to some degree. The choices they make shape the situations they are in. The characters in Thunderbolt are trapped. They are just very small parts of a very large war.

For your specific example, Atra's backstory is her backstory, it is something that happened to her in the past. The characters in Thunderbolt are undergoing their traumas during the show.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

It's also worth noting that the IBO cast are largely extremely extremely broken people. Their response to things underlines just how broken they are because they are *not* responding to intense trauma and awful situations the way they should, which is a major part of the tragedy of the show. Mika is basically defined by this. He is not a guy who is having coherent responses to the point he is literally destroying his own body. Biscuit is probably the most together of the Tekkadan and that kind of ends up being "WELP"

Thunderbolt in comparison is people who are broken but also part of an ongoing atrocityfest that is relatively new. They shouldn't be responding to situations the same as the IBO guys because they are literally in the middle of a war that killed off more people than are alive on Earth right now.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



ImpAtom posted:

It's also worth noting that the IBO cast are largely extremely extremely broken people. Their response to things underlines just how broken they are because they are *not* responding to intense trauma and awful situations the way they should, which is a major part of the tragedy of the show. Mika is basically defined by this. He is not a guy who is having coherent responses to the point he is literally destroying his own body. Biscuit is probably the most together of the Tekkadan and that kind of ends up being "WELP"

Thunderbolt in comparison is people who are broken but also part of an ongoing atrocityfest that is relatively new. They shouldn't be responding to situations the same as the IBO guys because they are literally in the middle of a war that killed off more people than are alive on Earth right now.

I'd say the most together is Zack in season 2. He's basically just a middle class guy who decided to work for a promising local startup instead of taking a job with his uncle's company.

Which is why most of his scenes in the last few episodes were "WHAT THE loving gently caress?"

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012

I'm so glad to see a thunderbolt conversation that isn't about whether or not it's fascist, these have been some enjoyable posts to read

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009

Kanos posted:

IBO is man versus society while Thunderbolt is man versus self

But IBO has plenty of man vs. self - one of the main throughlines in both seasons is concerned with Orga and Mika struggling and failing to overcome their natures.

Kanos posted:

Being petty, mean, ugly, and nihilistic is pretty foundational when you're trying to tell a story specifically about how war warps people into monsters, which is entirely what December Sky is about. Io is a trainwreck garbage person because trauma and conflict pushed him in that direction and he gave up and stopped fighting it, and basically the entire character story of December Sky is Darryl following that same path.

Thunderbolt seems to revel in making the vast majority of its characters irredeemable shitstains, which I would argue isn't very effective for telling a story about how war destroys people - it would be significantly more effective if Io didn't start out as a monster, and Daryl didn't stay a fundamentally nice person despite literally sacrificing his limbs.

ImpAtom posted:

Biscuit is probably the most together of the Tekkadan and that kind of ends up being "WELP".

Biscuit's death exists as the exact moment that Tekkadan's hamartia (a childishly naive faith in their leaders, who themselves have unquestioning loyalty to each other as their tragic flaw) begins their downfall. Every terrible mistake Tekkadan makes from here on out is happens because of that initial refusal to listen to Biscuit.

All of this happens because the protagonists (including McGillis) are people who've already been damaged by a hosed up world. IBO is partly a show about how people can never escape past trauma, which ends up shaping their lives and causing their doom. :rip:

Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jan 14, 2019

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012

What characters other than Io did you feel were irredeemable shitstains? The only other named character I can think of who fits that description is maybe claudia's second in command, who I'm not actually certain had a name

Cornelius and Karla were both perfectly pleasant people, I wouldn't call claudia an irredeemable shitstain, and the majority of the other grunts seemed fairly alright too

EDIT: I forgot about Karla's fellow scientist, but I still don't think that's "a majority of characters"

ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Jan 14, 2019

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012

Also daryl literally uses the same strategy the feds do with their child soldiers, only instead of child soldiers he has his buddy play the "unknowing suicide distraction" role. He doesn't taunt his enemies the way Io does but he definitely crosses the rear end in a top hat line towards the end, the difference between him and Io is that Io is aware he's an rear end in a top hat and decides to own it, while daryl is blissfully unaware of what a lovely person he is

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Lemon-Lime posted:

But IBO has plenty of man vs. self - one of the main throughlines in both seasons is concerned with Orga and Mika struggling and failing to overcome their natures.

At no point does Mika ever try to fight against or overcome his nature. He doesn't fight to become his own person or to evolve beyond being a blank-faced killing machine, and eagerly throws himself into total and complete self-destruction without an ounce of hesitation. He even actively brushes off other characters who prompt him to do it! Orga has precisely two moments of introspection, specifically the train in S1 and the "oh poo poo McGillis is losing and we're hosed" part of S2, which both come to nothing. The show really doesn't hang itself on being a character study in any way and most of Tekkadan's characterization is really, really thin for a 50 episode show.

quote:

Thunderbolt seems to revel in making the vast majority of its characters irredeemable shitstains, which I would argue isn't very effective for telling a story about how war destroys people - it would be significantly more effective if Io didn't start out as a monster, and Daryl didn't stay a fundamentally nice person despite literally sacrificing his limbs.

This is a pretty negative reading of most of the cast. Basically nobody in December Sky is presented as a totally negative shithead except for Karla's scientist associate. Basically every character has a pretty clear reason for why they're as broken as they are, and it all comes back to the conflict. Io is a huge loving rear end in a top hat trash fire but he has pretty strong reasons to have ended up that way. Claudia is crushed by guilt and responsibility so she hides in her room and shoots up. Her vice captain lost everything when the colony died so he's a vengeful monster who cares about nothing but hurting the people who hurt him and is disgusted at Claudia's "cowardice". Karla became a doctor to help people and is pushed by circumstance into being a monster who experiments on human beings. Even characters like the captain of the living dead, a character who receives basically no characterization, is shown becoming a worse person literally on camera as we see him react in shock and horror at the idea of forcing Daryl into the Psyco Zaku - and then, because war turns people into monsters for a myriad of reasons ranging from survival to patriotism to anger - signs away his humanity by ordering his loyal subordinate butchered to win a fight over nothing.

Daryl goes from "fundamentally nice person" to "guy who is cackling out loud and literally shedding tears in joy about how awesome it is that he was butchered and mutilated and thanking the person who did it to him, because flying around and fighting in a giant death machine feels awesome". Just because he's not spitting one liners and taunts like Io doesn't mean that he hasn't broken inside. Everyone breaks in their own ways, which is the point of Thunderbolt's cast.

This is all stuff that is presented reasonably effectively given that the runtime of the entire thing is barely over an hour.

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012

People not understanding that Io wasn't a bad person until after his father killed himself and Io became a soldier is the weirdest thing to me. There's like, literally a scene where cornelius turns to the camera and says "Io used to be cool"

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Kanos posted:

At no point does Mika ever try to fight against or overcome his nature. He doesn't fight to become his own person or to evolve beyond being a blank-faced killing machine, and eagerly throws himself into total and complete self-destruction without an ounce of hesitation. He even actively brushes off other characters who prompt him to do it! Orga has precisely two moments of introspection, specifically the train in S1 and the "oh poo poo McGillis is losing and we're hosed" part of S2, which both come to nothing. The show really doesn't hang itself on being a character study in any way and most of Tekkadan's characterization is really, really thin for a 50 episode show.


Except Mika's attempts to learn to read, his farming experiments, the time he hid the bracelet behind his back...

Mikazuki has plenty of moments of trying to overcome his nature. The problem for him is that he's really bad at being something other than a killing machine. (All his plants died). Meanwhile, killing comes as easy to him as breathing, and that's why he takes such relief in being paralyzed. Now, instead of having to try and try to make himself into something that can survive in the peace Kudelia is trying to bring about, he's now able to be nothing but a weapon until he can get used up and thrown away. (Which horrifies Orga.)

As for Orga... were you not watching the second season? Orga's role in the second season is being constantly paralyzed by indecision or trying to force himself to show the confidence he feels Tekkadan needs by taking the most insane, balls out play available, no matter the cost. I mean, he betrays a client from desperation, which is something season 1 Orga wouldn't have even considered.

There's limited character growth, but there's a lot of time spent showing how hosed up these kids are.

Marx Headroom
May 10, 2007

AT LAST! A show with nonono commercials!
Fallen Rib
Orga has tons of character growth, but some of it is subtle. Like when he blanks out during a crisis situation (some kid needs a medic) and gets called out by an Actual Adult for standing around mouth agape like a clueless rear end in a top hat. In that moment he realizes that despite the swagger he's still just a kid and needs authority figures, wants to become an authority figure himself. His responsibilities suddenly extend beyond Mika. Now he's gotta learn how to take care of everything else. He's gotta make sure they have a medical station set up. His world just became a little bigger.

That's like one episode. There are a bunch of moments like that.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

chiasaur11 posted:

Except Mika's attempts to learn to read, his farming experiments, the time he hid the bracelet behind his back...

Mikazuki has plenty of moments of trying to overcome his nature. The problem for him is that he's really bad at being something other than a killing machine. (All his plants died). Meanwhile, killing comes as easy to him as breathing, and that's why he takes such relief in being paralyzed. Now, instead of having to try and try to make himself into something that can survive in the peace Kudelia is trying to bring about, he's now able to be nothing but a weapon until he can get used up and thrown away. (Which horrifies Orga.)

As for Orga... were you not watching the second season? Orga's role in the second season is being constantly paralyzed by indecision or trying to force himself to show the confidence he feels Tekkadan needs by taking the most insane, balls out play available, no matter the cost. I mean, he betrays a client from desperation, which is something season 1 Orga wouldn't have even considered.

There's limited character growth, but there's a lot of time spent showing how hosed up these kids are.

Note that all of those examples you cite regarding Mika are from S1; his entire character arc in S2 is explicitly him rejecting all of that and throwing it away in the name of being a killing machine until he dies. He effectively regresses entirely to his beginning of S1 state.

Orga doesn't change as a person. He's effectively a static character who makes the decision to make balls-to-the-wall crazy risks at all times to buy Tekkadan a place in the world as early as the coup at the very beginning of the show and maintains that state until the end. He has some very brief moments of introspection, specifically right after Biscuit dies in S1 and when things start falling apart in S2, but he quickly corrects himself(typically due to peer pressure) and stays the course until his ultimate destruction. End of S2 Orga has the same character motivations and flaws as Beginning of S1 Orga.

Honestly, I feel like the degree to which the IBO kids are shown to be hosed up is a little bit overblown. Mikazuki is rightly a loving mess and the show spends a lot of time on it, but the rest of Tekkadan are way more normal than a bunch of child slaves and soldiers used as cannon fodder probably should be. Their mistakes are less due to being hosed up child soldiers and more due to being children.

Kanos fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Jan 14, 2019

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!
IBO does draw a distinction between the "free" and slave Tekkadan members. The Human Debris kids are a lot more withdrawn and less sociable than the others

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Gripweed posted:

IBO does draw a distinction between the "free" and slave Tekkadan members. The Human Debris kids are a lot more withdrawn and less sociable than the others

And there's another line between the Tekkadan human debris and the kids they picked up from the Brewers. By season 2, Chad, Dante, and even Akihiro have gotten used to the idea that they're human beings and that their lives have value. Chad's weirded out by being in a suit at parliamentary meetings, but it's a "who would have thought?" thing, not "I do not deserve this." thing.

Meanwhile, the Brewers kids still have difficulty believing anyone would care if they live or die until the finale. Season 1 Akihiro is taciturn and standoffish. By season 2, he's going out and telling Ride to make sure to eat his dinner.

As for Orga... well, when someone refuses to admit there's a change between season 1 Orga and late season 2 Orga, it feels past the point of any argument having an effect, you know?

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009

Kanos posted:

Note that all of those examples you cite regarding Mika are from S1; his entire character arc in S2 is explicitly him rejecting all of that and throwing it away in the name of being a killing machine until he dies. He effectively regresses entirely to his beginning of S1 state.

Yes, and Orga struggles with himself and concludes that the solution is to put on his game face 24/7 and make really stupid decisions because he needs to be a father to his men and surely, a person in charge would never hesitate about anything.

They both struggle against their natures and fail, because IBO is a tragedy.

e; also we should probably continue this in the Gundam thread instead of taking over the general mecha thread with Gundam chat.

Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Jan 14, 2019

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

chiasaur11 posted:

As for Orga... well, when someone refuses to admit there's a change between season 1 Orga and late season 2 Orga, it feels past the point of any argument having an effect, you know?

Orga not changing is central to the tragedy of Season 2, though? Like that's the entire point. Orga in both seasons is effectively the same character making the same decisions. This isn't actually a bad thing or bad writing because a central point of the conclusion of S1 is that Orga is never punished for his risk-taking because Tekkadan ultimately succeeds, meaning that he doesn't really have to reflect and change his ways, which sets him up to make the exact same mistakes except things go tits up this time.

Season 1: Orga decides that the only way to find a place for him and his boys and to prove himself worthy of his position in Mika's eyes is to risk it all with the Kudelia contract. He ignores all advice to the contrary from his reasonable companion(Biscuit) until a tragedy staggers Tekkadan and the reasonable companion dies. This causes Orga to go through a period of hesitancy about Tekkadan's path until he is yelled at by one of his boys(in this case, Mika on the train) and returns to his devil-may-care gambling, ultimately discarding his doubts and embracing that the only way to make the sacrifice of those who have already died worth it to pursue their mission to the end, regardless of how many kids die.

Season 2: Orga decides the only way to find a place for him and his boys and prove himself worthy of his position in Mika's eyes is to become the King of Mars. He ignores all advice to the contrary from his reasonable companion(Naze) until a tragedy staggers Tekkadan and the reasonable companion dies. Orga hesitates briefly until Lafter is murdered, at which point he burns every bridge he has to get revenge against Jasley and irrevocably ties himself to McGillis. When it becomes apparent that McGillis is a loving crazy loon who has no real plan, Orga hesitates again about the road Tekkadan is going down - and backs down yet again after being yelled at by one of his boys, committing Tekkadan to the daredevil "let's assassinate Rustal" gambit. The main difference here is that for the first time Orga's insanely risky plan doesn't work and now Tekkadan is hosed. Only now, once his daredevil gambits have truly failed for the first time, does Orga throw his pride to the wind and try to parlay with Rustal.

The entire tragedy of Orga is that by the time he decides to actually drop the facade and try to surrender to save his family even though they don't want him to, it's too late to matter.

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014

I'm enjoying Magic Knight Rayearth season 2 so far but I have to say I really did not expect Iczer-2 in all but name to show up. Seriously, Nova has a very similar design, and even has some similar attacks.

Raxivace fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Jan 16, 2019

Blisster
Mar 10, 2010

What you are listening to are musicians performing psychedelic music under the influence of a mind altering chemical called...

Kanos posted:


The entire tragedy of Orga is that by the time he decides to actually drop the facade and try to surrender to save his family even though they don't want him to, it's too late to matter.

Even when Orga is dying, he's still focused on "that place." It doesn't seem like he gives up on always pushing forward, even when it's literally impossible. I don't think the fact that he doesn't overcome his fatal flaw means he has no development though. He definitely becomes even more desperate and reckless as time goes on, breaking ties with all his allies and so on.

I am still loving VOTOMS. Seems like part 1 was Judge Dredd/Blade Runner but with a mech, and now part 2 is gonna be apocalypse now but with a mech. Chirico's gang is awesome.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
His three buddies from Woodo are surprisingly endearing. It helps that they're much more useful than your typical comic relief.

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014

I finished Rayearth season 2 the other day. Overall I really quite liked it- the new characters were super fun (If not always believably motivated, I'm not exactly sure I buy Lantis being in love with Hikaru, though I like what that and Nova torturing Hikaru over it and her feelings for him in addition to the guilt she felt over the season 1 ending did for Hikaru's character.), and I thought the way things escalated was well done. I was rushing through discs by the end of the show there (The "Memorial Collection" blu-rays are a really excellent package btw).

I'm not entirely sure what we're supposed to think happened with Autozam, Chizeta, and Fahren after Hikaru ended the Pillar system of Cephiro though. Do those countries just kind of stay screwed, or does Cephiro being saved mean they get saved as well?

Anyways I can't wait to see GIANT SANG YUNG save the universe in Super Robot Wars T.

GorfZaplen
Jan 20, 2012

Thinking about how in Da-garn the villains would drop by the vegan cafe the mc lived next to for lunch

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



So, finished Gurren, which was good, and I've got a toxx ensuring I'm going to finish Eva, but I figure it wouldn't hurt to get a little more all round experience.

I've been watching an episode or two of some other mech shows this year, just enough to feel like I have a vague idea what they're about and so I can know which ones I'll actually want to follow up on. So, basically, I'm asking if anyone has any suggestions. I'm already planning to at least take a look at more VOTOMs, and Patlabor and Macross Plus both are on my eventual list, but quality isn't the most important thing for a sampler, especially it's at least bad in an interesting way.

Sadly, that wasn't the case for Mazinger Infinity. The comedy wasn't particularly funny, the action was rare and not terribly interesting, and the drama didn't land. It felt like the film had drama not because it had something to say, but because a film's supposed to say something about the human condition, and they had to vaguely gesture at a bunch of themes in hopes they could bluff their way through.

I've seen worse, but at least a lot of those felt like someone had passion for the ideas on display. Here, nothing doing. No matter what the actual thoughts and visions were going in, what came out was a big fat nothing. Maybe seeing another show where extremely giant robots decide the fate of the universe so soon after seeing Simon's drill pierce the heavens stacked the deck a little more, but yeah. Not impressed.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

chiasaur11 posted:

So, finished Gurren, which was good, and I've got a toxx ensuring I'm going to finish Eva, but I figure it wouldn't hurt to get a little more all round experience.

I've been watching an episode or two of some other mech shows this year, just enough to feel like I have a vague idea what they're about and so I can know which ones I'll actually want to follow up on. So, basically, I'm asking if anyone has any suggestions. I'm already planning to at least take a look at more VOTOMs, and Patlabor and Macross Plus both are on my eventual list, but quality isn't the most important thing for a sampler, especially it's at least bad in an interesting way.

Sadly, that wasn't the case for Mazinger Infinity. The comedy wasn't particularly funny, the action was rare and not terribly interesting, and the drama didn't land. It felt like the film had drama not because it had something to say, but because a film's supposed to say something about the human condition, and they had to vaguely gesture at a bunch of themes in hopes they could bluff their way through.

I've seen worse, but at least a lot of those felt like someone had passion for the ideas on display. Here, nothing doing. No matter what the actual thoughts and visions were going in, what came out was a big fat nothing. Maybe seeing another show where extremely giant robots decide the fate of the universe so soon after seeing Simon's drill pierce the heavens stacked the deck a little more, but yeah. Not impressed.

How up are you on your Gundam?

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chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Darth Walrus posted:

How up are you on your Gundam?

Somewhat.

Finished G, Turn A, and IBO for full series runs (And read the Origin for the original, so I feel like I have some context for that, even though I've only watched a few episodes).

For movies, I've seen CCA, Endless Waltz, F91, the Origin movies, and G-Saviour.

OVAs, I've completed Stargazer, War In the Pocket, Thunderbolt, Build Fighters: Battlogue GM's Counterattack, and Twilight Axis.

I've also watched at least an episode of Build Fighters, Build Divers, 08th MS, SEED, and AGE.

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