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the bad place they designed for him is one where his co-workers are demons and torture him. He doesn't notice that they are demons.
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Jan 12, 2019 18:57
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Knowing Jerry he'd get some kind of dark age version of Hell with scourges and boiling oceans of oil
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Jan 12, 2019 19:01
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One of the best parts of Garry as a character is that whenever he wasn't at work his life was amazing so some weird version of Hell he doesn't understand well enough to comprehend as torture would fit better, I think.
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Jan 12, 2019 19:07
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I don't know where Larry would end up but as punishment for her low point score April should be sent to the actual Good Place.
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Jan 12, 2019 19:33
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I mean the show pretty much says the fake good place is a one off experiment from Michael and everything else is extreme torture.
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Jan 12, 2019 19:45
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Jerry is the only one who gets into the real Good Place (for the first time in five hundred years), and everyone else is like "Jerry got in? Ugh. Really?"
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Jan 12, 2019 20:06
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Patrovsky posted:Jerry is the only one who gets into the real Good Place (for the first time in five hundred years), and everyone else is like "Jerry got in? Ugh. Really?" "Well, I don't even want to go now!"
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Jan 12, 2019 20:30
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Doltos posted:I mean the show pretty much says the fake good place is a one off experiment from Michael and everything else is extreme torture.
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Jan 12, 2019 21:08
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This thread is incredibly dumb
blue squares fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jan 12, 2019 |
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Jan 12, 2019 22:31
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Zedd posted:Yeah, and Michael sold the pitch on making the torture more fun and less routine for the demons and increased torture coming out of for the humans was a nice bonus. Nah, not really. Michael sold the concept as getting the humans to torture each other (albeit, without them knowing they were doing it). It was something less routine for the demons helping him but after the numerous reboots the demons were tired of the deception and wanted to get back to torturing (and biting) the humans like they were used to.
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Jan 12, 2019 23:02
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blue squares posted:This thread is incredibly dumb Wrong. It's entirely credible.
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Jan 12, 2019 23:09
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I suspect 'size of community' is it. Points for impact-on-community captures Unintended Consequences. You capture all the more for the size of your community. The Bad Place watched Europe discover the New World and were like, "lmao owned." Everyone's now in a global community. Accretionist fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Jan 12, 2019 |
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Jan 12, 2019 23:12
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King of Foolians posted:Nah, not really. Michael sold the concept as getting the humans to torture each other (albeit, without them knowing they were doing it). It was something less routine for the demons helping him but after the numerous reboots the demons were tired of the deception and wanted to get back to torturing (and biting) the humans like they were used to. Also the demons probably noticed that the humans kept figuring it out before they could really make each other miserable for long - they kept winning. It's not torture if the other party can win, it's just a really mean game.
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Jan 12, 2019 23:13
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It's not entirely impossible that the good, bad,and medium places are all exclusively for the non-religious, and anyone in any spiritual tradition is handled otherwise. Odd that it wouldn't have come up, but we've met nor heard the fate of any believer in anything. That could fill the late isolated communities hole, and maybe some of the famous exclusions as well. If so, some of the problem could be in scaling up and modernizing a system that only had a trickle of souls going through between caveman days and the modern age...
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Jan 12, 2019 23:37
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Thranguy posted:Odd that it wouldn't have come up, but we've met nor heard the fate of any believer in anything. My guess is that this is more of a case of being some combination of being overly cautious and/or an NBC/S&P mandate to keep it vague and not offend anyone. Networks are having a hard enough time getting a broad audience, the last thing they want is to be front and center in the culture war with their silly prestige fantasy sitcom.
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Jan 13, 2019 01:53
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Phenotype posted:What about the tribe on that island that's never interacted with the modern world before, the one that killed some rich idiot who landed there a few months ago? Wouldn't they be out of the system and get into the Good Place? They've interacted with the world before, it's just that they constantly refuse to engage with it in any large way after a British admiral kidnapped some of the men to exhibit and possibly other unspeakable things before returning them to their home. And then a few decades ago, a tanker had crashed on shore and the natives were really eager to murder the gently caress out of the crew. The crew got airlifted out and the natives got a source of metal for their weapons.
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Jan 13, 2019 23:27
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If there are unintended bad consequences for good actions, wouldn't there also be good consequences arising from bad actions for the same reasons? Suppose you stole a license plate, but that plate happened to be from a car that belonged to a serial killer that is later pulled over and apprehended due to your "bad" action?
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Jan 14, 2019 00:51
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Cerebral Mayhem posted:If there are unintended bad consequences for good actions, wouldn't there also be good consequences arising from bad actions for the same reasons? Maybe, but that doesn't mean they balance out.
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Jan 14, 2019 01:03
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You have to have pure altruistic intent to get good points, but get bad points whether you're being deliberately bad/spiteful/selfish or acting carelessly. Probably even if you had good intentions that went wrong. This is a big meta-ethical failure in the system whether or not it's the one the writers are going for.
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Jan 14, 2019 01:12
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ashpanash posted:No one from a non-capitalist society has gotten in either. Everyone we've met from the good place is an ineffectual, unthinking bureaucrat - blissfully unaware of the harm they are inflicting and their own hypocrisy. The person who seemingly made it closest to actually getting into the good place in the past 500 years was an arch capitalist. It seems more like the Good Place committee is ineffectual and bureaucratic but very much about thinking and being aware of the harm they are causing and certainly non-hypocritical. They're spending several hundred years to slowly work through the process of an investigation to a ridiculously rigorous degree so that they make sure it it unfailingly good without any unforseesen negative consequences. It's slow and ineffective by any normal timescale, but completely in line with the universe's moral system where people have to beware of unintended knock-on effects of their actions.
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Jan 14, 2019 01:29
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you know, the Jeremy Bearimy episode reads perfectly as a critique of goons devolving into complicated logical slapfights about minutia when there isn't anything new to talk about
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Jan 14, 2019 01:34
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team overhead smash posted:It seems more like the Good Place committee is ineffectual and bureaucratic but very much about thinking and being aware of the harm they are causing and certainly non-hypocritical. They're spending several hundred years to slowly work through the process of an investigation to a ridiculously rigorous degree so that they make sure it it unfailingly good without any unforseesen negative consequences. You can even raise philosophical questions that justify their caution and long consideration times. Chidi argued that since his memories were erased, he wasn't the same person who had previously fallen in love with Eleanor. So when you determine someone actually belongs in the Good Place and not the Bad Place, just erase their memories and reboot them there. At that point you essentially have two different people, one who was in the Bad Place, one in the Good Place. As a trolley problem style question, isn't it a worthy tradeoff that one person spends a few extra decades in the Bad Place they don't deserve so that you can ensure someone else gets to spend infinitely longer in the Good Place they do deserve?
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Jan 14, 2019 03:06
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Lutha Mahtin posted:you know, the Jeremy Bearimy episode reads perfectly as a critique of goons devolving into complicated logical slapfights about minutia when there isn't anything new to talk about It is pretty astounding how much people are trying to search this show for deep meanings when it's just a fun silly take on the afterlife
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Jan 14, 2019 03:06
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Senor Tron posted:You can even raise philosophical questions that justify their caution and long consideration times. Thanks to the methods Michael chose for his neighbourhood and the realities of an NBC sitcom, it's never come up, but can the body be reset in the same way as the mind in the afterlife? What happens to the people undergoing regular Bad Place torture, some of who presumably have been mutilated?
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Jan 14, 2019 03:20
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Doltos posted:It is pretty astounding how much people are trying to search this show for deep meanings when it's just a fun silly take on the afterlife i don't know if i'd take it that far but the Jeremy Bearimy thing is definitely a pretty good indictment of nerd culture
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Jan 14, 2019 03:21
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Lutha Mahtin posted:i don't know if i'd take it that far but the Jeremy Bearimy thing is definitely a pretty good indictment of nerd culture I mean look at the post above yours.
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Jan 14, 2019 03:52
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and yet somehow this is brought to me by a tv show where the foulness of the farts of janet's evil twin is....uh, a thing? reminder: the putrid nastiness of bad janet's farts is an actual subplot of this television program
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Jan 14, 2019 03:58
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That's just the excess emotions coming out.
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Jan 14, 2019 04:02
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this maybe has been posted but at about 6:00 and later on this interview kristen bell really nails an introduction to the trolley problem, to stephen colbert https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpnbKjOtArg
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Jan 14, 2019 04:10
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Doltos posted:It is pretty astounding how much people are trying to search this show for deep meanings when it's just a fun silly take on the afterlife The show definitely wants you to read into it more and clearly wants to prompt discussions about ethics and morality, so just dismissing it as being free of deeper meaning seems misguided. That said, the constant goony derails about "how can 500 years mean 500 years" are extremely tiresome and the show definitely does not want to prompt those kinds of discussions, which is why they gave us Jeremy Bearemy, the ultimate explanation/joke.
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Jan 14, 2019 06:49
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Given that we now know the system is flawed, I wonder how many of the four humans would still end up in the bad place under a more fair system (the people they were in episode 1). Eleanor is a bad person but does she deserve to be tortured for eternity? Chidi is fundementally a good person who just has a little trouble making a decision from time to time, he should be in the good place.
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Jan 14, 2019 07:37
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team overhead smash posted:It seems more like the Good Place committee is ineffectual and bureaucratic but very much about thinking and being aware of the harm they are causing and certainly non-hypocritical. They're spending several hundred years to slowly work through the process of an investigation to a ridiculously rigorous degree so that they make sure it it unfailingly good without any unforseesen negative consequences. Maybe hundreds of years of deliberation is the only way to perfectly follow the rules (because of course the committee would never dream of breaking rules!), and the fact that humans have finite lives means that they won't have time to properly evaluate the effects of their own actions and adjust accordingly, so everyone ends up accidentally causing themselves more negative points than positive.
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Jan 14, 2019 07:49
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Oasx posted:Given that we now know the system is flawed, I wonder how many of the four humans would still end up in the bad place under a more fair system (the people they were in episode 1). Define fair. All that said, they're lucky that Shaun seems to be really spiteful since if he had just let Michael's experiment play put on Earth they would have all ended up in the Bad Place after naturally dying.
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Jan 14, 2019 08:10
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I'm still of the opinion that the good place people are the ones who changed the point system, with the "best" of intentions, to exclude the vast majority of people. Michael is always so specific that it's the bad place meddling with the system [and everyone always says it's impossible].
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Jan 14, 2019 08:11
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I don't think anyone "changed" it and that's the problem, the point system hasn't evolved to reflect the modern world.
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Jan 14, 2019 08:21
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qirex posted:I'm still of the opinion that the good place people are the ones who changed the point system, with the "best" of intentions, to exclude the vast majority of people. Michael is always so specific that it's the bad place meddling with the system [and everyone always says it's impossible]. Blaming something like that on a discrete entity is too much of an easy way out. Like capitalism itself, the afterlife isn't inherently right or wrong - it's just a broken system running amok, not helped by the fact that the people in a position to affect it are in turn being oppressed by it. There are particular bad people deliberately profiting off of it, but even if they were killed off the way the system functions would just bring someone else to fill the void. If Shawn died, Vicky would probably just try to step in. If she was taken out, Bitey Man may show up. The system isn't being deliberately meddled with, but it's a collapsing dinosaur of a system that nevertheless has it's claws in so many different pies that a complete failure of it would have catastrophic side-effects, so the easy way out is to patch the issues with duct tape and bubble gum and hope it holds. Michael's probably going to end up looking to go full soviet though and tear the whole thing down. Hell the system is so ubiquitous we all know what's really going on - everyone is on The Trolley. All anyone can do is change it's direction using the controls they have access to, only Michael has figured out that the only way to "beat" the trolley problem is to break the system, jump out and jam the wheels with your own corpse. There are 2 tracks, one that will make the Good Place denizens miserable by changing the rules completely invalidating their entire lives, and one that will keep the Bad Place denizens in a state of perpetual torment. The Earth is in the same boat, they are all in the trolley of Capitalism. The trolley problem is a metaphor for the entire situation on all sides. BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Jan 14, 2019 |
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Jan 14, 2019 08:28
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Do people have guesses for the end of the season? If it's anything like the last two finales things are gonna get shaken up a lot again.
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Jan 14, 2019 09:44
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I'm thinking Michael convinces the Judge that the system is broken, they try to change one aspect of it to start to make things fairer, and then everything breaks due to a ripple effect from that change - resulting in Pandemonium in the afterlife, and season 4 being a clusterfuck on the level of Legends of Tomorrow's "Guy's. I think we broke time..." as the Judge, Michael and the Humans try to salvage a working system out of the whole mess
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Jan 14, 2019 09:54
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Senor Tron posted:Do people have guesses for the end of the season? If it's anything like the last two finales things are gonna get shaken up a lot again. They ask about the previous time, after the invention of stabbing, when no one got into the Good Place and why it stopped. They get to be present at the invention of society and laws. They then Jeremy Bearimey to the future, when people start gettting in again. They takes notes from whatever luxury gay space communist Earth has a system that allows good people to be good. Next few episodes are a time travel show going to meet famous people I history and trying to speed along moral development to reduce the gap between such a society being economically possible and actually existing. As part of this, they go to 20C America and try to persuade network executives to create a sitcom. Series finale is an episode of the show which features Ted Danton as a barman learning life lessons.
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Jan 14, 2019 10:26
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I wonder if the Judge's first case will come up some time. Now that we know how screwed up the system is and why it'd be interesting to see what the one other time was besides Mindy and the our group that required her intervention.
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