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parthenocarpy posted:There is a new Noita gameplay video out, halfway into this YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZsMZjzT0ZM I'm hoping that Derek Yu's other current project, UFO50, includes some form of roguelite.
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Jan 15, 2019 04:10
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I was playing Everspace and jumped into a sector that had a wanted criminal that I was hunting for a bounty. When I tracked them down I realized they were in a death spiral around a black hole; they had just enough time to sling a few insults my way before vanishing into the event horizon. (Then the game had to ruin it by having them pop back up somewhere else  , but at least they were badly damaged)
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Jan 15, 2019 04:47
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i really, absolutely want a release date for noita
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Jan 15, 2019 04:51
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In Tangledeep, I have three characters on my 14 hour file. 2 of which died in the early teens and 1 of which made it to the final boss (and died). I'd say my time to get to the final boss was probably like 7 hoursish? I don't really item dive as much others as I suspect and I never backtrack for rumors either. It just seems like one of those games where you have a million ways to prepare if you want to spend the time. I imagine NG+ is probably demanding though but that's not really my thing.
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Jan 15, 2019 05:08
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I was playing Everspace and jumped into a sector that had a wanted criminal that I was hunting for a bounty. When I tracked them down I realized they were in a death spiral around a black hole; they had just enough time to sling a few insults my way before vanishing into the event horizon. Hahaha what! It's also worth noting that larger ships (Corvettes and Freighters) are immune to the black hole. I bought Everspace during the Xmas sale, binged on it mightily, but felt that I've accomplished everything except a Hard mode win within a short period of time. Fun game, worth getting (with DLC, which adds some character to the universe!) if it's cheap. Certainly not infinitely repayable like more serious RLs are, however.
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Jan 15, 2019 05:18
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Pladdicus posted:Most of the time, even with extra lives I usually end a character in the first death because it's too early but I agree with you. It's the ideal scenario to have those extra lives serve as screens to not ending a run to playing well and kicking it on bad 'rolls' and I think it usually works. oh yes. please give chainguns forcefields to "make them easier" for "newer players"
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Jan 15, 2019 07:21
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andrew smash posted:I think elder scrolls stealth archery is a different entity from the other things. It's not only the most effective way to play those games, it's inherently the most fun because the rest of the combat gameplay is broken and boring. the most fun way to play in skyrim was to put every level bonus into mana while playing on legendary so everything oneshotted you, then using stealth backstabs + summons/illusion to cheese everything you could never touch in a proper fight... or maybe that's just me.
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Jan 15, 2019 07:24
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Skyrim's combat system was pretty boring though you just had "click button to swing melee button" and 500 varieties of "click button to do damage to bad guy with magic, but you get to choose which color the particle effect is" It didn't really feel like there was any decision involved in it just point at bad guy and mash mousebutton
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Jan 15, 2019 07:51
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DisDisDis posted:oh yes. please give chainguns forcefields to "make them easier" for "newer players" Ahahaha, more seriously a cool system would be Crawl's automated forbidden squares, a feature I really enjoy for conveying a great deal of information to a new player fairly naturally.
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Jan 15, 2019 08:00
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It's extremely video-gamey though and wouldn't work so well in a game like qud that focuses more on atmosphere. You could make the turrets shoot out laser rangefinders at everything in their LOS though and warn players about stepping into a laser-filled tile or something
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Jan 15, 2019 08:02
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:It's extremely video-gamey though and wouldn't work so well in a game like qud that focuses more on atmosphere. Nothing communicates "this thing will shoot you" like a thing shooting you, so just make them spray even more than they already do (and most shots at 3+ range miss) Though the game could do a better job of conveying information about ranged attacks from outside the player's LOS, because it's hard to differentiate between a trivial musket vs actually dangerous rifle turret, etc. silentsnack fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Jan 15, 2019 |
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Jan 15, 2019 08:24
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I was playing Everspace and jumped into a sector that had a wanted criminal that I was hunting for a bounty. When I tracked them down I realized they were in a death spiral around a black hole; they had just enough time to sling a few insults my way before vanishing into the event horizon. I played everspace once and got splattered when I accidentally shot an npc right outside the gate into the first real level after the tutorial. I should really give it another go.
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Jan 15, 2019 08:59
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:Skyrim's combat system was pretty boring though you just had "click button to swing melee button" and 500 varieties of "click button to do damage to bad guy with magic, but you get to choose which color the particle effect is" I played Skyrim right after Dark Souls and the shift from Souls' excellent combat to Skyrim's pure trash combat was almost a dealbreaker for me. The only thing that carried it was how amazing it was to look out over the game world. Then I got Dragon's Dogma and that was the nail in the coffin for me and Bethesda open world games. Despite how janky the game was, Dragon's Dogma blew the combat mechanics of Skyrim so far out of the water that I never looked back. The stark comparison between Grigori (loving incredible and the single best depiction of a dragon in any game ever) and Alduin (small, overly spiked, and impotent) didn't help at all either. Anyways that's my anti-Bethesda derail for the year. I've started playing Tangledeep and I really like it so far. I'm a huge sucker for the SNES JRPG aesthetic in general, so that part is right up my alley, and I like that the class mechanics are reasonably interesting. Kind of annoyed that I invested heavily in Dagger Mastery only to get jack and poo poo for the weapon class so far, but I'm sure that'll smooth out once I'm able to use the banking system to give myself a leg up in terms of making builds. Despite the lack of good weaponry, it was pretty smooth sailing up until floor 12. I just barely escaped death there, hit an elite robot of some kind that was a big jump from anything I've fought so far. I'll have to figure out how to approach it since I've got a rumor to kill it. May just have to go the other way then come back though, he nearly two shot me. Not sure how much I like finite combat resources, although it's been bearable so far. The limited HP recovery is pretty neat as a mechanic to keep you progressing however.
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Jan 15, 2019 09:31
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Johnny Joestar posted:i really, absolutely want a release date for noita Funny thing, I had the game wishtlisted, but it wasn't because it's an action roguelite, but because I'm a sucker for games with complex physics/liquid interaction/procedural destruction.
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Jan 15, 2019 09:54
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Sacrificial Toast posted:I mean, Tangledeep already has the option where death sends you back to town minus some gold, JP and EXP. I expect they think that covers the niche pretty well. That feels too lenient for me - I know that's stupid but it essentially means death has no really penalty in the endgame, and I usually get to that point anyway. The game has so many cool modifiers it would work as one of those imo but I won't pretend to know how much work it would be for the sake of that
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Jan 15, 2019 09:57
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I save scummed twice in my current game of Tangledeep, two silly, totally avoidable deaths so on my mind it was allowed as I didn't have enough experience on the game, then on the third death on the 15th floor I say to myself 'well, that was my fault' and started a new character. It was very 'Oops' like the title of the thread, a theorethical 'easy' floor where the randomness of roguelikes conspired against me, one of those situations that have a 0.05% probability of occurring in any given fight, but given the length of the game you will have 3 or 4 of them in a normal run. I'm not sure, but I think the floor difficulty indicator can be tricky, because the pandora chests raise the global difficulty without updating that? After 15 chests opened, he 'very easy' floors felt like the 'easy' ones before.
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Jan 15, 2019 12:32
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The floor difficulty indicator is pretty useless, I think it's just a linear thing depending on your level. Especially late on, a Very Easy floor can spawn a champion who shits throwing axes and ice daggers and kills you in two rounds before you know what's happening
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Jan 15, 2019 12:42
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I had an item king on a trivial floor once that was resistant to everything summoned chaff and had a full heal. I only managed to beat it by a hair and it cost me my only elixir.
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Jan 15, 2019 13:01
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The item economy is totally bonkers, by the way. With that I refer to the shop prices: a rank 7 common item will be 80% more expensive than a rank 5 legendary item full of affixes, hell even forgetting the affixes for a second the legendary item still will have better base stats.
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Jan 15, 2019 13:10
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I don't think I ever look at normal items, I just buy uber stuff from the casino every other level
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Jan 15, 2019 13:33
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The total uselessness of the floor difficulty indicator really wrecked the Item Dream mechanic for me last time I played Tangledeep. It's a cool idea but the possibility of jumping blind into a potential ToME 4-level oneshot unique was infuriating, especially since those are very rare in the standard dungeon. The risk always seemed to massively outweigh the reward too: you'd burn through a bunch of resources, risk death, and in return you'd get some random piddly affix that'd be out of date when you find a better item in a few more floors.
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Jan 15, 2019 13:34
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Dachshundofdoom posted:The total uselessness of the floor difficulty indicator really wrecked the Item Dream mechanic for me last time I played Tangledeep. It's a cool idea but the possibility of jumping blind into a potential ToME 4-level oneshot unique was infuriating, especially since those are very rare in the standard dungeon. The risk always seemed to massively outweigh the reward too: you'd burn through a bunch of resources, risk death, and in return you'd get some random piddly affix that'd be out of date when you find a better item in a few more floors. There is a item to get back into the real world in one turn, the uh... whatever drum. And while you don't keep the 'dream-consumables', you keep the gold and other items. In fact some dreams have extra fountains, or the goldfrog, several times I got with more resources than I started with.
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Jan 15, 2019 14:58
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Biskup's ADOM P&P OSR RPG Kickstarter is live and doing decently: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thomas-biskup/the-adom-ancient-domains-of-mystery-roleplaying-ga/description However: The extra relevant bit for here is a kickstarter for Ultimate ADOM (presumably Caverns of Chaos but I could be wrong) is also due to be happening come the end of February. I suppose this'll be the first big Roguelike crowdfunding test of 2019 unless something else suddenly appears from the ether.
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Jan 15, 2019 15:32
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Whatever happened to JADE anyway. Please stop remaking adom
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Jan 15, 2019 16:27
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ExiledTinkerer posted:Biskup's ADOM P&P OSR RPG Kickstarter is live and doing decently: Quick - if you don't back for $8500, Thomas Biskup will come to your house!
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Jan 15, 2019 16:29
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What does he consider the "five ancient roguelikes"? Edit: excuse me, "rogue-likes"
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Jan 15, 2019 16:35
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AttackBacon posted:Not sure how much I like finite combat resources, although it's been bearable so far. The limited HP recovery is pretty neat as a mechanic to keep you progressing however. After a while you realize that consistently stocking up at Nando's and using the cooking fire to make yourself meals gives you way more resources than you ever really need and you can keep on munching as you delve through the deep. Save the potions for emergency situations. Dachshundofdoom posted:The risk always seemed to massively outweigh the reward too: you'd burn through a bunch of resources, risk death, and in return you'd get some random piddly affix that'd be out of date when you find a better item in a few more floors. Item Dream is for upgrading your high-rank gear more than anything really. Reverie orbs should be mostly used on filler (or for early characters), you want to use the specific skill or affix orbs on your good stuff and to actively prune bad affixes. Incidentally this is why Katie Twinkles is a great vendor even though she rarely sells anything "good" -- if you can grab some good base equipment you can just use the Item Dream to enchant them. Any base gear higher than rank 5 immediately goes into my bank unless I already have copies of them.
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Jan 15, 2019 16:39
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andrew smash posted:What does he consider the "five ancient roguelikes"? At a guess: ADOM, Angband, Crawl, Moria, NetHack. Having both Moria and Angband on there feels like cheating though, since Angband is basically Moria with more stuff. It also ignores games like Castle of the Winds that absolutely were ancient roguelikes but had less enduring presence on the scene.
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Jan 15, 2019 16:49
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:At a guess: ADOM, Angband, Crawl, Moria, NetHack. All of these games except Moria are still actively developed, though -- he said "the only one still in active development."
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Jan 15, 2019 16:52
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Turin Turambar posted:Funny thing, I had the game wishtlisted, but it wasn't because it's an action roguelite, but because I'm a sucker for games with complex physics/liquid interaction/procedural destruction. that's kind of half the reason i do, too. also part of why catacomb kids is fun to me even if it's probably going to be completed in like 2035.
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Jan 15, 2019 16:54
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Johnny Joestar posted:that's kind of half the reason i do, too. also part of why catacomb kids is fun to me even if it's probably going to be completed in like 2035. Same, and same. Noita looks like a dream game I'd have thought up in middle school and is the only day-1 purchase I have on my radar.
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Jan 15, 2019 17:19
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SKULL.GIF posted:All of these games except Moria are still actively developed, though -- he said "the only one still in active development." I would have guessed Rogue, Hack, Moria, ADOM, and I don't know what 5 is.
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Jan 15, 2019 17:22
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andrew smash posted:What does he consider the "five ancient roguelikes"? Hack, Moria, ADOM, Omega, & Larn, probably as has been said, hack and moria are still under development by different names but that's biskup for you i'm not really sure adom falls into that generation though. i would have classified adom's "peers" as nethack, angband, tome, and crawl, personally, but all of them are still actively developed so it wouldn't sound nearly as compelling for marketing purposes Jazerus fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Jan 15, 2019 |
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Jan 15, 2019 17:47
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SKULL.GIF posted:
Uh, I didn't think of that, I saw some common weapon at rank 7, but being a white base weapon, I ignored. But... I guess you will have to upgrade the weapon a bunch of times to make it equivalent to a rare or legendary weapon. By the way, I did the other day a thread for the game in another forum. I guess I can reuse it and make a thread in SA... give me a few minutes. edit: AND DONE. Now let's see the thread disappear in a few minutes. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3879710&pagenumber=1#lastpost Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Jan 15, 2019 |
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Jan 15, 2019 18:52
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:Whatever happened to JADE anyway. Please stop remaking adom JADE dead-ended into cutting edge Java hell on top of not being able to interface readily with all of the gains from ADOM Resurrection in terms of NotEye and pretty much everything else. However, pretty much all good bits were harvested for it for Ultimate ADOM, which will on the whole be the sequel to ADOM that JADE was going to be, on top of even more good bits he didn't even dream up back in the JADE days, and even some of the JADE bits have since found their way to updated ADOM proper. The tricky bit comes in Ultimate ADOM not being limited to one game per se so much as a future suite of games that (should) be able to interact to achieve something of a Gestalt. Caverns of Chaos is the one that has seen convention demos and the like thus far, and is the Big Time dungeon crawl---but the grand overworld and such side of things lies within another yet to be more properly revealed beyond the initial reveals that outlined the lot...
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Jan 16, 2019 15:26
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parthenocarpy posted:There is a new Noita gameplay video out, halfway into this YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZsMZjzT0ZM The gameplay looks kinda boring, but I'm looking forward to the amazing Rube Goldberg death montages.
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Jan 16, 2019 22:20
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Sacrificial Toast posted:I mean, Tangledeep already has the option where death sends you back to town minus some gold, JP and EXP. I expect they think that covers the niche pretty well. There is a big difference between "you get X lives" and "dying only costs some gold+jp+xp". It really doesn't cover the niche at all, which is "I'd like one or two idiot passes for not knowing exactly if my guy can take something on or I fall asleep at the wheel and mash too much but I still want a game-over".
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Jan 17, 2019 02:00
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ZypherIM posted:There is a big difference between "you get X lives" and "dying only costs some gold+jp+xp". It really doesn't cover the niche at all, which is "I'd like one or two idiot passes for not knowing exactly if my guy can take something on or I fall asleep at the wheel and mash too much but I still want a game-over". There isn't that big a difference. They're both motivated by the same desire, a desire that roguelikes are deliberately designed to thwart. You aren't meant to comfortably experiment, you're meant to be paranoid and constantly in search of contingencies and redundant ways to protect yourself from the genuinely threatening unknown. The knowledge that players will have zero margin of error also encourages developers to be as fair as they are ruthless, as the game will not be fun unless they do. It's like an acid test for game design, and it's a good thing -- it's what separates roguelikes from regular turn-based RPGs.
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Jan 17, 2019 02:54
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:There isn't that big a difference. They're both motivated by the same desire, a desire that roguelikes are deliberately designed to thwart. You aren't meant to comfortably experiment, you're meant to be paranoid and constantly in search of contingencies and redundant ways to protect yourself from the genuinely threatening unknown. The knowledge that players will have zero margin of error also encourages developers to be as fair as they are ruthless, as the game will not be fun unless they do. Depending on the way it's done a limited number of extra lives does not break the roguelike formula in the way that an infinite number of lives does. Example: DCSS's felids get an extra life every 3 or so levels, and can have up to 3 stocked up at a time. This is a pity bonus that they get because felids suck, but even if you were to give it to a halfway decent species it still wouldn't allow for comfortable experimentation. It's essentially equivalent to just a really, really good escape, but because it's limited it doesn't break the roguelike formula. It's a resource that you can burn in order to protect yourself, like teleport scrolls or heal wounds potions.
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Jan 17, 2019 03:27
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:It's like an acid test for game design, and it's a good thing -- it's what separates roguelikes from regular turn-based RPGs. It is certainly possible to have roguelikes where you can run that razor's edge, but there's also a lot of scope for games where 98% of the time the game has cool and fun procgen scenarios, and the remaining 2% of the time the RNG decides to kill you. The devs can either try to cut down that 2% to something more acceptable like 0.1%, or they can focus on adding more cool and fun content, and just give the player a mulligan. Deciding what to do gets trickier when, say, cutting down that 2% number also means that the entire rest of the game becomes less cool and fun, because you have to reduce the variance in what the generator is allowed to produce. In other words, yes the ideal is a game that's infinitely variable, always fun, and never unwinnable, but in practice we have to sacrifice on those axes somewhere, and there's no a priori reason why the "never unwinnable" axis deserves more protection than the others.
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Jan 17, 2019 03:40
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