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Yeah... not exactly the most compelling boss rush ever made. You get nothing for it but some dialogue. At least we're finally done with this climb and can move on to the important stuff. There's literally no Eternians left. EDIT: Update on last page everyone.
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Jan 15, 2019 02:54
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This game has a lot of great ideas, but it's definitely less than the sum of its parts.
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Jan 15, 2019 02:55
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You also have the problem that the game wants you to care about the Eternians, but if you skip all the optional fights you only see them at their worst. Holly's a wonderful person...in worlds after the first, where as I recall she learned white magic to be a more efficient torturer. Plus you have the entire thing where people with principles like the swordmaster are mostly sitting around letting the crazies do whatever.
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Jan 15, 2019 03:47
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Huh. I totally misremembered that last round. I didn't think the no-breaks fight was optional, I forgot that Braev had his own separate posse to fight with.
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Jan 15, 2019 03:57
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Don't Forget, You're Here Forever: Let's Play Bravely Default Also, Quad Magic was some bullshit. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Jan 15, 2019 |
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Jan 15, 2019 04:02
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I Shin Smashed Qada so he procced the fire weakness after everyone else used their big Fire attacks every turn.
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Jan 15, 2019 04:16
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Hm. Perhaps Braev was together with Yulyana and DeRosso, doing what the angel told them, but for some reason that changed from world to world?
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Jan 15, 2019 05:12
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Pureauthor posted:I Shin Smashed Qada so he procced the fire weakness after everyone else used their big Fire attacks every turn. Yeah, that was the key to everything.
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Jan 15, 2019 05:17
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I did the initial boss rush in this update, but I didn't know/had forgotten you could fight boss rush rush.  This is a really fun game, trying as hard as it can to be not fun.
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Jan 15, 2019 07:12
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:You also have the problem that the game wants you to care about the Eternians, but if you skip all the optional fights you only see them at their worst. My main issue is that they never explain why the Eternians soften up so much from world to world, they just wordlessly go from racking up atrocities like they're playing War Crimes Bingo to becoming a quirky yet ultimately harmless bunch of fools. If it wasn't for the whole multiple dimensions thing they could have played it like a game-spanning redemption arc where you force them to admit their faults or change their views, but nope, the world 1 Eternians were assholes and got killed for it and now in this world they're outright helping you because ??????
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Jan 15, 2019 07:28
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That could be kind of interesting, actually: during one of the last world hops, the party also somehow revives and drags in the original Eternian commanders along with them, and they get to compare and contrast themselves against their much nicer selves for a last bit of character development.
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Jan 15, 2019 07:43
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Probably about time I explained some of my "Council of D6" theory, huh? See, DeRosso and Yulyana figured out early on that multiple worlds were involved. But as far as they knew, they were the only ones who got that warning, and one world's resources wouldnt be enough to stop the bad guy. So they decided they had to split the world they started out on into as many as possible. Every time they're faced with a decision, they add an unnecessary random element - flip a coin, roll a die, draw cards out of a hat, whatever. By doing this, the single root world where an Angel showed up splits into a huge number - meaning more universes where Airy has to deal with people who know what's up. Braev is also in on this and rolls dice when no one is looking. Unfortunately, we started off in the world where Braev got a record number of "Do the stupid thing" or "Do the evil thing" rolls.
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Jan 15, 2019 08:00
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BisbyWorl posted:My main issue is that they never explain why the Eternians soften up so much from world to world, they just wordlessly go from racking up atrocities like they're playing War Crimes Bingo to becoming a quirky yet ultimately harmless bunch of fools. The last 2 worlds have the outside explanation of just being added bonus content made to salvage a really bad core. (Otherwise everyone is stuck at their world 3 personae.) But inside where not many people were even aware of that? (Just look at the reactions in the thread when that got revealed.) Yeah it just comes out of nowhere. With that in mind, the world 3 versions weren't that much different from the world 1 versions, and are just slight deviations for the most part. Though little explanation is given there too. I guess you could say Yulyana had something to do with it given the test he gives the party there.
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Jan 15, 2019 09:49
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If we're on the thousandth or so iteration, does that mean that World 1's Eternians were drastically parsed down versions of what the actual originals were? 
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Jan 15, 2019 11:08
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Kith posted:If we're on the thousandth or so iteration, does that mean that World 1's Eternians were drastically parsed down versions of what the actual originals were? Airy is the good guy, there are only like, three worlds that aren't entirely comprised of huge assholes
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Jan 15, 2019 17:07
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Kith posted:If we're on the thousandth or so iteration, does that mean that World 1's Eternians were drastically parsed down versions of what the actual originals were? Given that Qada and DeRosa change the least from world to world, Original Qada and DeRosa must have been the
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Jan 15, 2019 19:02
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That Mega Magic fight was the point in the game where I realized I'd have to seriously alter my team makeup and I just didn't care enough at that point. I liked being able to do every other fight with equipment changes/the build I was using, but I was also like 100 hours in.
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Jan 15, 2019 20:04
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Kairinko posted:That Mega Magic fight was the point in the game where I realized I'd have to seriously alter my team makeup and I just didn't care enough at that point. I liked being able to do every other fight with equipment changes/the build I was using, but I was also like 100 hours in. That fight is when I found out about the Stillness My Hero/Mimic brokenness with Dark Knight. Dark Explosion with Darkness Resist just wiped them out.
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Jan 15, 2019 21:47
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Entry 108: The Four Crystals, Awakened Once Again After facing the full force of Braev's love and support, the party finds themselves out of distractions.  They retreat to the lone, icy ghost town of Gravemark, to reminisce and come to terms with their next course of action...  ...Except it's too cold to think.  It seems like this place is always snowbound. I can't feel the tips of my toes anymore. I don't care if it's my homeland; I can't stand this weather! Ringabel, could I borrow your bottle of crushed red pepper? My red pepper? What does that have to do with anything? You have it, right? That pepper you bought back in Ancheim? Yes, I have it, but I didn't know that you knew I had it. Here. Thanks. Now, to fold a bunch into these cloths here... Edea, take off your shoes and stuff these cloths into the toes. Oh, but first, you don't have any injuries to the tips of your toes, do you? No, but... Ah! My toes! They feel all warm and toasty! Now you too, Agnès. What a handy bit of knowledge. Thank you, Tiz. Yes, well, Norende also experiences quite heavy snowfall in winter. Everyone in the village always had chili pepper powder in their boots. Oh, and thanks, Ringabel. Here's your pepper back. Ahh... My red pepper. Is this all that's left? *sigh*This chat is triggered only after getting the food chat in Ancheim and facing Braev. But more importantly, Tiz's findings are supported by modern science: capsaicin, which provides the pow in chili peppers, actually does create heat.  Without Praline's defection, the Grandship of this world will continue to suffer having a terrible pub. On the upside, it'll encourage people to leave before the whole place sinks. But more importantly, once again, the world has been freed of Eternian tyranny, thanks to the selfless actions of  Back in our first world, who'd have guessed we'd end up awakening the crystals with Braev's blessing?  You could argue we keep betraying Braev's trust by continuing to unquestioningly overclock the crystals, go through the Holy Pillar, and cause the Great Chasm. But, you know, it's the thought that counts. The party means well.  Look!And it's not as though they're enjoying themselves. We've done this crystal-saving bit so many times. The grandeur of it wore off long ago.  Back in Entry 84, which documented Chapter 5's second crystal, I showed off the cutscenes when awakening the crystals. *ROOOAAAAR*  Wait, something lurks nearby! Another creature back from destruction! Here they come!Except for Ringabel's outbursts in Chapter 6, these scenes haven't changed since then aside from being shortened. And better yet: they're unskippable.  This is the 5th time we've fought this guy. His stats have remained the same the last four times.  ... ... ...*phew*  The rest of these cutscenes are repeats first shown in Entry 82, back at Chapter 5's first crystal. Of course.In the past, I usually edited these scenes down. This time, let's watch them together in completion.  That way you guys can get the real Bravely Default experience.  I'm sure you have the hang of it, but if there's anything you'd like to go over again, just ask. >Listen to explanation Okay, let's go over the Rite of Awakening again. You can stir the crystal awake by reciting ritual prayers. Keep going until I tell you to stop. Got it? When I say stop, you have to stop right away. You could destroy the crystal if you push it too far.Oh, we're well aware of what happens.  We don't close the Great Chasm by awakening the crystals. We create it. Over and over.  Huh? It... It just worries me a little.But we keep going.  Despite knowing the truth of Airy's plans.   Nnh...hnngh... Not yet! Just a little longer! Rgh...!Despite knowing the consequences to the worlds we leave behind.  Despite knowing there's another way. Still not enough! You can do this! Stop! That's it! This is our 17th crystal. *Phew* Have you checked your brooch, Airy? Yes, the earth crest is lit.[img]https://lpix.org/2703269/agnes_happy.png[img][/img] Phew... Good... Are you okay, Agnès? Yes, I am used to it now... I need a short rest, but then we should head to the next temple. Okay...Three worlds our party's wrecked so far. We're on the way to our fourth. How many more?  One crystal down.  Airy's in an uncommonly good mood on the way to Eisenberg.  She doesn't even complain as much as usual about the heat in the volcano. Look! This crystal has also reverted...*ROOOAAAAR* Wait, something lurks nearby! Here they come! These crystal-haunting demons were fairly tough back in the first world.  Now, after the training force of 166 Eternians over the course of 83 battles, they're pulverized to a demonic powder within a few seconds. ... ... ...*phew* Hurry up and awaken the crystal before we are beset by more beasts! Of course. I think we know how this goes. Let's skip the explanation this time. Time to get started, Agnès. Are you ready? Yes, let us begin.~CEREMONY TIME~ Nnh...hnngh... Not yet! Just a little longer! Rgh...! More! Keep going! Quite a few people have mentioned not getting to the end of Bravely Default. Stop! That's it!It wouldn't be surprising if this game had one of the lowest completion rates of video games with decent gameplay.  Usually good gameplay is enough to keep people playing. You did it! You awakened the crystal! Well done, Agnès!But after seeing these scenes over and over, doesn't it make a good argument for stopping and choosing to play something else?  After all, we only have so much time to spare in our lives. Yes, the fire crest is lit.[img]https://lpix.org/2703269/agnes_happy.png[img][/img] Phew... Good... Are you okay, Agnès? Yes, I am used to it now... I need a short rest, but then we should head to the next temple. Okay...You'd have to be a bit crazy or stubborn as all get-out to do this so many times in a row.  "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."  I don't blame anyone for stopping before they get this far.  It's almost as though the game is discouraging people from progressing. Look! This crystal has also reverted...*ROOOAAAAR* Wait, something lurks nearby! Another creature back from destruction! I got fooled by this game when it came out.  The reviews raved about the brilliant writing and gameplay. ... ... ...*phew* Hurry up and awaken the crystal before we are beset by more beasts! Of course. I'm sure you have the hang of it, but if there's anything you'd like to go over again, just ask. >Skip explanation Time to get started, Agnès. Are you ready? Yes, let us begin.It was a beautiful package of a game: graphics, music, gameplay, the Square-Enix JRPG stamp of approval.  A clever homage to Squaresoft's golden era of JRPGs, but with shiny quality of life updates like the encounter slider. Nnh...hnngh...The encounter slider was mentioned universally. What wasn't mentioned in most reviews was the complete repetition of the latter half of the game. Gameplay reduced to a series of boss battles, main story ground to a halt.  In retrospect, it should have been seen as a warning: one of the best parts of the game was a kludge of a fix for an outdated, universally hated type of gameplay now seemingly only used in the subgenre out of a misdirected sense of nostalgia. Rgh...! More! Keep going! Still not enough! You can do this! Stop! That's it!But why did Bravely Default's unfinished second half get largely ignored?  One probable cause is that game reviews are treated outwardly the same as movie or book reviews, despite the fact that some game genres, especially RPGs, take many times longer to play through to completion. Video game reviewers are racing against time to play through an adequate amount of the games they review. *Phew* Have you checked your brooch, Airy? Yes, the water crest is lit.[img]https://lpix.org/2703269/agnes_happy.png[img][/img] Phew... Good... Are you okay, Agnès? Yes, I am used to it now... As a consequence, the back half of games often get passed over, not due to laziness (at least, not always) so much as needing to rush on to other games.  Okay...This isn't a defense of reviewers so much as a critique of the way the review system for games is currently structured.  In fact, it's a critique of how a lot of the industry for video games is structured, because reviews are hardly the only area where things are set up to be rushed beyond healthy human capacity.  The problem is rooted in the method in which companies profit from reviews and video game development. Under the current market, many see it as better to burn out workers and push for faster, possibly incomplete releases, regardless of longterm consequences. Eventually, changes will be needed. But this is moving to a topic for another time. We've just awakened our third crystal in this world. ...... ...... ...... Agnès... How much more-- Remember, Edea, we decided to follow Agnès on this. ...Oh, that's right. ......One more crystal. And then we can start all over again?  Ah hah...hahaha.   Remember back to our first time here? It felt like we really were saving the world.  Agnès was here to awaken the crystal, despite the sad memories of her fallen comrades.  ...Let's just get it over with.  This crystal has also reverted...*ROOOAAAAR* Wait, something lurks nearby! Another creature back from destruction! Here they come! ... ... ...*phew* Hurry up and awaken the crystal before we are beset by more beasts! Of course. I'm sure you have the hang of it, but if there's anything you'd like to go over again, just ask. >Skip explanation Time to get started, Agnès. Are you ready? Yes, let us begin.  Nnh...hnngh... Not yet! Just a little longer! Rgh...! More! Keep going! Still not enough! You can do this!  Another repeated scene. What is this light? The Holy Pillar? It must be! Let us head there again, Agnès. This time we must ensure we seal the Great Chasm and cleanse evil from the world! Yes, I know. We cannot fail again! This keeps going on. Is it worth it to continue?  What is it? My pendant chain! You're right. It looks like it was about to come off. Here, let me have a look. Oh, this will be easy enough to fix once we get back to Grandship. Thank you. You're handier than you look, Ringabel. Did you have to include that "than you look" part? What are you guys doing back there? I'm going to leave without you! Never fear, I'll keep waiting for you. Thousands of years, even! Huh? What are you babbling about, Ringabel? Yes, what do you mean? Huh? What do you mean, what do I mean? Oh, will you just come along already! No reason to delay.  After all, it's nothing we haven't done before.  Again. For the fifth time.   The scenes this time are a repeat of the last two times. ...... Where are Datz and Zatz? I had them take refuge in the hold. Okay, everyone, don't forget to watch over me! This is going to work this time, you'll see! Yes...of course. O wondrous and beautiful First Light, my brooch awaits your divine radiance! ...... What!? We should watch over Airy. ...Right.       -- Event Viewer Party Chat: Chili Pepper Powder Wavering of Purpose Wait for You 
Greyarc fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Jan 22, 2019 |
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Jan 18, 2019 03:25
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Just lol if the game really gives you an unceremonious "The End" after doing the crystals that many times. I know Chrono Cross kinda did that, where if you didn't figure out the magic thing to do you just sorta got a garbage ending dumped on you, but that at least had a progressing plot going the whole time. Then again, with how weirdly sadistic-about-tedium/unfinished the game seems to be at times, I could imagine a barely-hinted-at secret path you needed to take to get to the true final boss.
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Jan 18, 2019 03:51
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This is genuinely unsettling to see the first time it happens. 
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Jan 18, 2019 03:56
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I'm pretty sure many reviewers never saw further than Chapter 4 - if they even got that far. But in a certain way their assessment of a good story for a nostalgic JRPG is not that wrong. 95% of the plot are charming if simple; it's just such a shame the remaining 5% (which are basically "awakening crystals doesn't help - what do?") have been stretched so incredibly thin.
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Jan 18, 2019 09:31
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I'd say the end itself is fine. But everything in between ranges from okay to augh.
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Jan 18, 2019 10:50
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Well, as I said way back when GreyArc broke the crystal and fought Airy, I think that would've been a much more satisfying ending than pointlessly going through the motions until the game arbitrarily said you were done.
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Jan 18, 2019 11:38
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I am half and half on that. On one hand, there is no way the best ending wouldnt come from whatever Airy's wing countdown is for. And the ending we did get was only average to me despite its satisfying opening condition. On the other hand, the countdown has not been made very exciting. If the false ending option was a little more telegraphed and the true ending more organic to reach (plotwise), it would be near perfect.
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Jan 18, 2019 12:35
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I wonder how the game would be like if the worlds loop infinitely until you realize something is wrong and break the crystal. Would people play for 10+ worlds never understanding what happened?
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Jan 18, 2019 12:56
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DeafNote posted:I am half and half on that. I'm not saying that exact ending with no changes, I'm saying they should have made that the true ending and written it as such. And gotten rid of the whole countdown thing entirely since it doesn't really add anything imo.
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Jan 18, 2019 13:42
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Eeepies posted:I wonder how the game would be like if the worlds loop infinitely until you realize something is wrong and break the crystal. Would people play for 10+ worlds never understanding what happened? And now I’m imagining Airy’s reaction if her wing-numbers started going into the negatives... Or worse, went into an integer overflow.
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Jan 18, 2019 17:49
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Clarste posted:I'm not saying that exact ending with no changes, I'm saying they should have made that the true ending and written it as such. And gotten rid of the whole countdown thing entirely since it doesn't really add anything imo. Yeah. The game kind of has the whole moral of "sometimes the right thing to do is disobey authority" and then gates the best ending behind... doing exactly what you're told long after it's obvious that you're doing what the bad guys want you to do. Hidingo Kojimba fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Jan 19, 2019 |
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Jan 18, 2019 21:03
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:Yeah. The game kind of has the whole moral of "sometimes the right thing to do is disobey authority" and then gates the best ending behind... doing exactly what your told long after it's obvious that you're doing what the bad guys want you to do. Well, y'know, sometimes you must, uhh... courageously... take the path of least resistance...? Hmm, what is the phrase I'm looking for...
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Jan 18, 2019 21:38
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Have the courage to disobey. Or default for four worlds and then get brave in the last one. 
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Jan 18, 2019 22:05
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quote:This chat is triggered only after getting the food chat in Ancheim and facing Braev. But more importantly, Tiz's findings are supported by modern science: capsaicin, which provides the pow in chili peppers, actually does create heat. haaaa, I completely missed that scene but I love that it has  backing it up.Honestly... I have had a lot of thoughts over the True End in this game over the years but... well, we'll have to wait an update to get to the relevant portions.
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Jan 18, 2019 22:48
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quote:This chat is triggered only after getting the food chat in Ancheim and facing Braev. But more importantly, Tiz's findings are supported by modern science: capsaicin, which provides the pow in chili peppers, actually does create heat.
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Jan 19, 2019 00:31
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NGDBSS posted:Got a source for that? I know it stimulates the neurons that detect heat or abrasion. In turn that can cause inflammation with a large enough dose, which on the one hand means more blood flow and on the other hand the possibility of a toxic interaction. But I don't remember anything about directly creating heat. What would be the mechanism for that, oxidation? Shortcircuits a particular muscle protein. quote:Yasser Mahmoud has found that capsaicin can create "heat" in a more direct manner by altering the activity of a muscle protein called SERCA. Normally, muscle contraction initiates following the release of a wave of calcium ions from a compartment called the sarcoplasmic reticulum (SR); SERCA then actively pumps the calcium back into the SR (using ATP energy), causing muscle relaxation and renewing the cycle.
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Jan 19, 2019 20:46
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:Yeah. The game kind of has the whole moral of "sometimes the right thing to do is disobey authority" and then gates the best ending behind... doing exactly what you're told long after it's obvious that you're doing what the bad guys want you to do. Well, think about it. Literally everyone who actually has authority is telling you "No, this is a bad idea, don't do this, you have to not do this". The game mechanics themselves are telling you "No, this is a bad idea, don't do this, do literally anything else." The only one who's actually telling you "This is a great idea and you should all be happy to be a part of it!" Is the obviously shady fairy who has a Mysterious Countdown that becomes obvious by... I think the third iteration? It's a terrible idea from a game standpoint, but it's not actually against the theme of the game. The majority of evidence and literally all of the people who might know something are telling you to break the crystal (Or at least pointing out that you should probably be rethinking your plan), but the answer is to disobey all those people and see things out until the end. Alectai fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Jan 20, 2019 |
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Jan 20, 2019 02:13
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Alectai posted:Well, think about it. But then the game's mechanics tell you what to do. You need to default so you can brave at the end.
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Jan 20, 2019 02:43
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Alectai posted:Well, think about it. I actually had the same conclusion for the opposite reason. I always read it as the game itself telling you to disobey it. By the time you reach Chapter 6, up to and especially when you get to the point where Agnes and Tiz talk to Yulyana alone, the game and its narrative is all but practically screaming at you to break a crystal to get out of the repetitive cycles. But you have to ignore that, and keep pushing through to reach the ‘true’ end. It always seemed to me that Bravely Default wanted you to ultimately disregard and disobey the hints the game itself was leaving for you in plain sight.
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Jan 20, 2019 03:21
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Honestly I feel like the only reason the other worlds (well, past like world 3 or 4 when you figure out Airy's poo poo) existed is because the devs thought "oh hey we've got these cool new hard boss configurations the players can fight!... but we can't do that now narratively because they're all dead... HMMMM..."
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Jan 21, 2019 02:00
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Chapter 5 or the non-Yulyana parts of 6 could’ve been excised entirely to at least liven things up a bit.
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Jan 21, 2019 02:08
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TwoPair posted:Honestly I feel like the only reason the other worlds (well, past like world 3 or 4 when you figure out Airy's poo poo) existed is because the devs thought "oh hey we've got these cool new hard boss configurations the players can fight!... but we can't do that now narratively because they're all dead... HMMMM..." No because this is the improved version. The original version (which is Japan exclusive) had worlds 4 and 5 being the same as Worlds 2 and 3. Just go around fighting the individual bosses again.
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Jan 21, 2019 15:51
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