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Che Delilas posted:The secret to getting enough time to test is to never tell management how much of your total development time is devoted to it. I'm serious. I'm sure there are places where management has an adequate understanding of the importance of testing and how testing or its lack impacts future development time. But I've yet to work in one. This, but also for refactoring. I have never seen a "refactoring" task/story not get shot into the backlog equivalent of a black hole but if you have a new feature but it would be better if you refactored old stuff first, well, that refactoring is part of building the new feature.
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Jan 14, 2019 19:29
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vonnegutt posted:This, but also for refactoring. I have never seen a "refactoring" task/story not get shot into the backlog equivalent of a black hole but if you have a new feature but it would be better if you refactored old stuff first, well, that refactoring is part of building the new feature. Yep. I estimated about 2.5x what I would have for a "version 2" of a feature that was fired into production out of a cannon, because I knew I'd have to refactor the old before I built the new. Not only because it was necessary to actually make the upgrade work decently, but also so it would be marginally more navigable when version 3 rolls around.
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Jan 14, 2019 21:41
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Che Delilas posted:Yep. I estimated about 2.5x what I would have for a "version 2" of a feature that was fired into production out of a cannon, because I knew I'd have to refactor the old before I built the new. Not only because it was necessary to actually make the upgrade work decently, but also so it would be marginally more navigable when version 3 rolls around. Yeah, until you are perceived as the guy who takes ages to get something done all while "remember when we had Johnny? He would have this done in a week." When explaining that Johnny left a loving mess, you are marked a complainer. Ugh, I am never working in banks again.
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Jan 14, 2019 23:09
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Keetron posted:Yeah, until you are perceived as the guy who takes ages to get something done all while "remember when we had Johnny? He would have this done in a week." When explaining that Johnny left a loving mess, you are marked a complainer. Ugh, I am never working in banks again. Eh, where I work the codebase is such a ball of mud that the theoretically simplest thing could take an age to fix without shattering something on the other end of the proverbial universe. Or not. Management has been conditioned to not be surprised when that happens, so I'm just another data point in the mass.
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Jan 15, 2019 00:10
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Developer self-testing is sort of an inherently flawed thing in my mind. I’ve definitely gone through stuff like smoke tests where I was subconsciously hesitant to really jump up and down on a module I knew was flimsy. To some degree I think you need separate testing to try and remove ego and blind spots. It would be nice to have a peer/code review standard/tool/process where the reviewer is expected to exercise the commit for correctness, although LGTM is perhaps even less rigorous than developer self-testing. I’ve also seen a lot of “throw it over the fence” QA use in big firms though. Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jan 15, 2019 |
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Jan 15, 2019 16:55
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https://media.defense.gov/2018/Oct/09/2002049591/-1/-1/0/DIB_DETECTING_AGILE_BS_2018.10.05.PDF Glad that someone made this document in defense. They have a lot more patience than I do.
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Jan 15, 2019 20:03
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necrobobsledder posted:https://media.defense.gov/2018/Oct/09/2002049591/-1/-1/0/DIB_DETECTING_AGILE_BS_2018.10.05.PDF Actually a quite decent document. The people in this thread who complain that their "agile" isn't working probably work at a place where one of those points isn't being met. I'm sad the Department of Defense isn't talking about the Definition of Done because I'd like to see the confusion that comes from the DoD talking about a DoD.
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Jan 15, 2019 23:51
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I stand firm that my employer is truly unironic agilefall and that DoD document basically describes them to a T. We do some things right, as far as agile goes, but not the things that actually matter.
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Jan 16, 2019 00:10
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Protocol7 posted:I stand firm that my employer is truly unironic agilefall and that DoD document basically describes them to a T.
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Jan 16, 2019 00:12
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This is the first company I've worked for that has adopted SAFE Agile practices and I want to give kudos to whatever consulting company managed to rebrand waterfall.
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Jan 16, 2019 16:43
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poemdexter posted:This is the first company I've worked for that has adopted SAFE Agile practices and I want to give kudos to whatever consulting company managed to rebrand waterfall. SAFE was invented by the Russians to further sow discord in US businesses. geeves fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jan 16, 2019 |
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Jan 16, 2019 16:55
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poemdexter posted:This is the first company I've worked for that has adopted SAFE Agile practices and I want to give kudos to whatever consulting company managed to rebrand waterfall. Yes, I agree completely. I actually just ranted about this to a coworker using the DoD document as a starting point. Our company has 4 Program Increments a year. Release dates are fixed and features must be completed at a certain time during the PI for it to make the release. That just sounds like waterfall to me. Using sprints doesn't really you agile if everything else follows the usual requirements -> design -> implementation -> verification -> maintenance model. Why are we pretending we're something we're not? I don't care what software development method we use as long as the software is decent and the company is thriving. If you want waterfall just say we're doing it waterfall style. In good news, I will be missing the first day of our next PI Planning meeting because I will be in Las Vegas. In bad news I will probably be hungover for the second day.
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Jan 16, 2019 16:56
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Subjunctive posted:[Hi there! I'm looking to hire some people, and I've been told that this is a good place to tell people that. Please accept my apologies and let me know if that's not the case!] Thanks for sharing! Try crossposting to the goon job opening thread too: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3052395
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Jan 16, 2019 17:35
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poemdexter posted:This is the first company I've worked for that has adopted SAFE Agile practices and I want to give kudos to whatever consulting company managed to rebrand waterfall. Don't point it out tho, you will be scolded. Well, I was when asking about the difference between SAFE and waterfall. The best thing about SAFE is that when a company proudly tells you during the interview that they are all over agile using the SAFE methodology is that you can thank them for their time and nope the gently caress out of there.
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Jan 16, 2019 18:40
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A little phrase to remind you: If you hear SAFE, FASE out of there.
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Jan 16, 2019 18:49
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"No SAFE word, please" needs to be an acceptable requirement for job-seekers
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Jan 16, 2019 19:10
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I'm looking right now at https://www.scaledagileframework.com (that's the SAFe you're talking about, right?) and oh my god, what a bunch of mumbo jumbo. Big words, no content. Architectural runway. Holy macaroni.
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Jan 16, 2019 19:32
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Volguus posted:I'm looking right now at https://www.scaledagileframework.com (that's the SAFe you're talking about, right?) and oh my god, what a bunch of mumbo jumbo. Big words, no content. Architectural runway. Holy macaroni. Yup. It is purely management fluff BS.
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Jan 16, 2019 19:40
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Volguus posted:I'm looking right now at https://www.scaledagileframework.com (that's the SAFe you're talking about, right?) and oh my god, what a bunch of mumbo jumbo. Big words, no content. Architectural runway. Holy macaroni. When I went for scrum master certification, it was just a 2 day class and super loving simple. Scrum is just a set of ideas and you kinda mold your process around those ideas based on company. SAFE is 100% some company duped enough C-level people into buying into it so that it can sell an overly complicated process and consulting fees. It's such a scam.
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Jan 16, 2019 19:41
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The whole CSM thing is a racket. The mandatory 2-day class costs a bunch of money and and the test is 35 easy multiple choice questions. My wife is starting to look for jobs again after we had our first child and she already has her PMP + Scrum Master experience, but she wants to get her CSM to get her resume past any automated filters, but doesn't want to spend $1k + sacrifice a weekend to take a class about what she already knows. </rant>
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Jan 16, 2019 19:50
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Slimy Hog posted:The whole CSM thing is a racket. The mandatory 2-day class costs a bunch of money and and the test is 35 easy multiple choice questions. My wife is starting to look for jobs again after we had our first child and she already has her PMP + Scrum Master experience, but she wants to get her CSM to get her resume past any automated filters, but doesn't want to spend $1k + sacrifice a weekend to take a class about what she already knows. I totally agree. Most certs are a racket. Mine just happened to be paid for by my company so I obviously said yes.
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Jan 16, 2019 19:57
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About certs, a lot of people I used to work with drank the SAFE Kool-aid and are now proudly posting their SAFE Product Owner Analyst Level 2 (or something) certifications on LinkedIn. To me it just shows they have a lack of insight into the goal of agile development (which is to deliver working software) and instead were baited by this consulting group. OTOH: I am offered to participate in AWS engineering certs for free, taking that one as I might actually learn something and increase my personal resell value at the same time.
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Jan 16, 2019 20:29
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The third party I am integrating with is using the time stamp as the primary key in their database, send help
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Jan 16, 2019 22:41
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Volguus posted:I'm looking right now at https://www.scaledagileframework.com (that's the SAFe you're talking about, right?) and oh my god, what a bunch of mumbo jumbo. Big words, no content. Architectural runway. Holy macaroni. I worked for a company that did both that and ASpice at the same time using the same teams: http://www.automotivespice.com/fileadmin/software-download/Automotive_SPICE_PAM_30.pdf Of course, they still claimed to be doing Agile. 
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Jan 16, 2019 22:49
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SAFe is like chickenpox but for engineering divisions. One day you'll be in ordinary useless scrummerfall, the next day your inbox is full of diagrams like the ones posted in the thread and your calendar gets booked full of training conducted by consulting companies. Usually clears up in about three months or so, except you'll have a bunch of meetings named after SAFe buzzwords.
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Jan 17, 2019 00:51
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My only issue with safe is that it is poisoning so many people who don't know better against agile. Which is really a pretty common sense and human friendly approach to things.
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Jan 17, 2019 01:16
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Polio Vax Scene posted:The third party I am integrating with is using the time stamp as the primary key in their database, send help Oh, there has to be more good stuff where this came from 
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Jan 17, 2019 02:41
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The Agile Manifesto is great, and every single methodology built around it has hosed it up big time. It's all process-obsessed weirdos losing focus on the big picture.
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Jan 17, 2019 05:09
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Polio Vax Scene posted:The third party I am integrating with is using the time stamp as the primary key in their database, send help Good luck, I can't imagine what other garbage they have already told you or have in store for you. I have been there and I do not envy you. e: ^what rt4 said
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Jan 17, 2019 07:07
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Polio Vax Scene posted:The third party I am integrating with is using the time stamp as the primary key in their database, send help Horrifying, but as long as there's a well-defined API you should be fiAAAHHH HAHAHAHAHAHA.
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Jan 17, 2019 09:44
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I liked the third party whose REST API only accepted and returned CSV. You could filter the data they returned by supplying a suspiciously SQL-like querystring parameter. When I mistyped this parameter, I got back a raw, unfiltered exception w/ stack trace containing a syntax error from their DB.
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Jan 17, 2019 20:30
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:SAFe is like chickenpox but for engineering divisions. One day you'll be in ordinary useless scrummerfall, the next day your inbox is full of diagrams like the ones posted in the thread and your calendar gets booked full of training conducted by consulting companies. Usually clears up in about three months or so, except you'll have a bunch of meetings named after SAFe buzzwords. So what you're saying is I should go see my doctor if SAFe persists for longer than three months, right?
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Jan 18, 2019 00:38
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:So what you're saying is I should go see my doctor if SAFe persists for longer than three months, right? much like other kinds of herpes, SAFe is a lifetime infection, with flare-ups and remissions. alcohol can help deal with the pain.
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Jan 18, 2019 02:07
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:much like other kinds of herpes, SAFe is a lifetime infection, with flare-ups and remissions. alcohol can help deal with the pain. extremely this.
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Jan 18, 2019 03:22
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Remember to use protection when going to product management conferences, folks.
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Jan 18, 2019 03:40
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For us, SAFE essentially redefines agile to mean “product management can only change the priorities every ten weeks.” So it’s a little better than waterfall?
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Jan 18, 2019 13:29
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Vulture Culture posted:The Agile Manifesto is great, and every single methodology built around it has hosed it up big time. It's all process-obsessed weirdos losing focus on the big picture.
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Jan 18, 2019 15:46
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smackfu posted:For us, SAFE essentially redefines agile to mean “product management can only change the priorities every ten weeks.” So it’s a little better than waterfall? For us it's "Thank you for performing your PI Planning on the first day and setting your project commitments for the upcoming PI. Management is not happy with what the teams can realistically complete so your commitments are probably all going to change anyway." If you can't tell, my company loving sucks at SAFe. Which might be for the better anyway.
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Jan 18, 2019 16:35
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Ugh there's also this one QA engineer who I have bitched about before who is still a loving idiot. I did some research to find some poo poo that we'd have to change in the code. Basically, grepping the code for any lines of code related to COM interop. I did find some areas in the code that our team was not aware of, so I threw it in a document, sent it to the team, pointed it out in our daily standup meeting and thought that was it. We'd make a new user story and it would get done eventually, everyone's happy, right? No, this loving guy doesn't pay attention in standup and waits to read my research until a week after I sent it out. So he literally asks me "You called this work out as needing to be done but didn’t do it?" And he's panicking and trying to throw me under the bus because he has a demo today. Well, bud, that's how our process works. You pick up a story - in this case, a research story. You complete the research, add it to the story and pick up the next story in the sprint. If you're going to zone out in meetings, at least spend 15 minutes of your entire day paying attention to what your team is doing...
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Jan 18, 2019 17:55
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Protocol7 posted:Ugh there's also this one QA engineer who I have bitched about before who is still a loving idiot. Surprised you have tickets that stick to being research only. Most tickets like that get blown up into “ok now fix it please” IME.
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