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hosed up my back again somehow lol still deadlifted, not sure if I made it worse or better. It's fine if I'm erect, walking, sitting, or laying down. But it hurts in any position in between. The slightest bend is like a knife through my lower lumbars. OH WELL
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Jan 16, 2019 03:08
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:format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1514842-1262393228.jpeg.jpg) i must own this
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Jan 16, 2019 03:17
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:hosed up my back again somehow lol You made it worse you big dummy
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Jan 16, 2019 03:39
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MarcusSA posted:This absolutely needs to be the thread theme song. Uh, Rocksolid? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnhqgcuXzxQ&t=23s
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Jan 16, 2019 03:43
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:hosed up my back again somehow lol keep deadlifting until you feel better or have to be taken away on a stretcher imo
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Jan 16, 2019 03:45
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Ok that’s good but honestly the other one is better. He just needs an hour or two of pumping iron to get his mind right. JFairfax posted:
Oh poo poo that’s awesome. I definitely need that as well.
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Jan 16, 2019 03:47
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:hosed up my back again somehow lol https://youtu.be/ZhOQCwJvwlo https://youtu.be/riq-DfDDimc
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Jan 16, 2019 03:53
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Hm One one hand, I'm hesitant to trust obnoxious Starting Strength beard guy about something as serious as back pain On the other hand, maybe this is precisely the prejudice he's talking about. After all, myself and probably many other people here to know that total rest is absolutely the incorrect way to recover from other lifting injuries (shoulder, elbow, knee pain etc.), so why should the spine be special?
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Jan 16, 2019 04:34
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I’m just gonna relax and maybe do yoga for back pain and try again in a week or two. I can probably do my chest/back workouts. And I need to do more cardio anyway, I’m out right fat If it’s not better at all I’ll check with some rehabilitation specialist or something. Life is pain 
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Jan 16, 2019 05:16
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The only thing I know about the back is that you don’t gently caress with the back. Like you really gotta walk for the rest of your life.
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Jan 16, 2019 05:20
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MarcusSA posted:The only thing I know about the back is that you don’t gently caress with the back. Alan Thrall's videos have a point though You're not actually gonna break a vertebra or tear your spinal cord deadlifting Maybe you'll herniate a disc but guess what, Chad Wesley Smith has two herniated disks and is one of the top 10 strongest PLers in the world. I don't think that Alan Thrall or HIS STARTING STRENGTH COACH AUSTIN BARAKI are geniuses or anything, but I think it's highly probable that mainstream medicine is loving retarded when it comes to back pain
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Jan 16, 2019 05:27
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Especially considering how much money there is to be made in treating back pain as invasively and expensively as possible
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Jan 16, 2019 05:32
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feelix posted:Especially considering how much money there is to be made in treating back pain as invasively and expensively as possible When I was an EHS officer, we basically told accounting to accrue 100-200k for any back injury. It was a good way to get them to support safety initiatives.
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Jan 16, 2019 05:39
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feelix posted:Alan Thrall's videos have a point though Neither Thrall nor Baraki are with Starting Strength, if that makes a difference.
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Jan 16, 2019 06:15
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MarcusSA posted:The only thing I know about the back is that you don’t gently caress with the back. I don’t need my back to shitpost  Hahaha HAHAHAHAHAHA *tears begin streaming*
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Jan 16, 2019 06:19
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ovenboy posted:Neither Thrall nor Baraki are with Starting Strength, if that makes a difference. Yeah I know that Barbell Medicine cut ties with Starting Strength as Rippetoe continues to burn every bridge around him. They all seem like fine people (except for Mark Rippetoe).
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Jan 16, 2019 06:21
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Amazing Thankyou!!!
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Jan 16, 2019 07:03
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:hosed up my back again somehow lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xT47c4axK4&t=18s
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Jan 16, 2019 11:07
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feelix posted:Yeah I know that Barbell Medicine cut ties with Starting Strength as Rippetoe continues to burn every bridge around him. They all seem like fine people (except for Mark Rippetoe). What did rippetoe do?
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Jan 16, 2019 14:30
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In public it was a difference in training philosophy after the initial novice LP. Feigenbaum wrote an article why he doesn't like Texas Method and has said the 4 day version isn't much better, he doesn't like HLM either. Him and Baraki are also adherents to the house of Tuchscherer so there's the whole RPE thing too which Rippetoe took a real disliking to in the past few years. My own conjecture though is that Barbell Medicine is a direct competitor of SS Online and saying texas method sucks, which is what they're going to put you on after SS, also cuts into their business. There's also the fact that both the doctors are fairly liberal leaning and Rippetoe is... not. I don't think Rippetoe is crazy though. I think he's old and want's to live comfortably. He's found a niche and is exploiting the gently caress out of it. I mean he's started to sell a plain wood (no pad) and angle iron bench for like $250 and the thing sold out.
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Jan 16, 2019 15:03
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feelix posted:Alan Thrall's videos have a point though This. Pain is extremely poorly correlated with actual physical injury, and the human body is much more resilient that people (especially orthos/PTs/chiropractors) give it credit for. I'm reading a book by pain researchers Ronald Melzack and Patrick Wall and they mentioned that a full 25% of people walking into emergency rooms with major injuries (lacerations, broken bones, fingers removed) experienced zero pain at the time they were evaluated. And of course there are plenty of conditions where people experience severe pain in the absence of any kind of injury (fibromyalgia, non-specific low back pain). Pain is a perception, and like all perceptions it occurs in the brain after sensory data is analyzed and compared to previous experience, and like all perceptions it is susceptible to distortion and misevaluation. If you have ideas like this running around in your head when you feel some back tightness and soreness that are stronger than you expected: quote:The only thing I know about the back is that you don’t gently caress with the back. of course you're going to freak out and start avoiding movement and being hypervigilant about your back. Unfortunately, as Alan quoted in one of the videos I linked, these attitudes and subsequent behaviors actually make the pain and disability experienced WORSE and last longer. An interesting thing neurologists have found about sensory perception is that the brain and spinal cord are capable of sending signals downwards to change how the sensory nervous system works, called descending modulation. Avoiding movements that have previously caused pain and being hyper-aware of the region you felt the pain in will increase the perception of threat in your brain, which will then increase the sensitivity of the sensory nerves in that region, which then leads to a feedback loop of increasingly small movements triggering the pain and increasing fear of damage to that part of the back. feelix posted:Maybe you'll herniate a disc but guess what, Chad Wesley Smith has two herniated disks and is one of the top 10 strongest PLers in the world. http://www.greglehman.ca/blog/2018/4/2/reconciling-spinal-flexion-and-pain-we-are-all-doomed-to-failure-but-perhaps-it-doesnt-matter quote:Meaning, the in-vitro spine models COULD be valid. Spinal flexion could be risk factor for disc damage. But, there might be little point in being concerned about it because it is impossible to avoid and hold on...disc degeneration is an absolutely normal and unavoidable part of being a human and is poorly related to pain! Meaning we get worried about disc degeneration contributing to pain but it might be just a tiny drop in the pain cup (not irrelevant but just kindling for a fire. ). Thus, don't worry about that little drop in the cup but worry about all the other factors that might be more important. feelix posted:I think it's highly probable that mainstream medicine is loving retarded when it comes to back pain https://startingstrength.com/article/aches-and-pains quote:My absolute biggest problem with everything I’ve discussed so far, the thing that really pisses me off as a physician, is the fact that a desperate, anxious patient could present to every single one of these practitioners and potentially receive a different diagnosis. The inter-rater reliability is so bad that this often occurs even among practitioners of the same field.[1,54-59] They won’t agree on what specific structure needs adjusting, release, strengthening, stabilizing, or whatever other intervention is fashionable. Core exercise is a great accessory for improving your bracing in the squat and deadlift (maintaining a neutral spine helps achieve better leverages), but core stability exercises have been shown to not have any specific pain or injury reducing effects versus general exercise. https://www.bettermovement.org/blog/2010/back-pain-myths-posture-core-strength-bulging-discs quote:Here's another quick reality check before moving on to some research: ever noticed a heavily muscled person with massive core strength who has lots of back pain? Or a skinny weak person with none? https://www.painscience.com/biblio/8-weeks-of-core-strengthening-coordination-exercise-for-chronic-low-back-pain.html https://www.painscience.com/biblio/education-not-core-exercise-reduces-back-pain-incidence-in-soldiers.html https://www.painscience.com/biblio/special-core-strengthening-prevents-no-more-injuries-than-ordinary-sit-ups.html Guyver posted:In public it was a difference in training philosophy after the initial novice LP. Feigenbaum wrote an article why he doesn't like Texas Method and has said the 4 day version isn't much better, he doesn't like HLM either. Him and Baraki are also adherents to the house of Tuchscherer so there's the whole RPE thing too which Rippetoe took a real disliking to in the past few years. My understanding is that they developed an appreciation of evidence-based practice in medical school and started paying attention to the same research people like Greg Nuckols have been basing their advice on, but Rip had already decided "this is what SS is and it shall never change". Their recent podcast interviewing Nuckols goes over this a bit. They're also extremely well versed in the science of pain and injury and AFAIK they're the only people combining this knowledge with powerlifting and strength exercise.
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Jan 16, 2019 16:19
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That's a good effort post, thanks for that.
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Jan 16, 2019 16:57
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Good posting
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Jan 16, 2019 18:30
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Thanks! I should probably point out that I'm not a medical professional and my posts shouldn't be taken as medical advice, but the gist of the science is that pain isn't necessarily a serious medical problem and can be worked through with an understanding of the principles involved. As far as what to do once you have pain, the name of the game is "de-sensitization". If you lost your brace for a moment in a heavy set and your back flexed suddenly under a heavy load (for example) and your CNS decided that this was dangerous and decided to produce pain in that region, the next steps are to: 1. Don't panic! The human body is incredibly resilient. Your CNS is just trying to protect you from a perceived threat. 2. Stop doing the offensive exercise 3. Try to find a variation of the movement that doesn't provoke pain. Can you: - reduce load - reduce range of motion - switch to an alternate version of the exercise and perform the exercise with reduced pain? It doesn't have to be completely pain-free, just a 4/10 or less and doesn't get worse over time. One of the Alan Thrall videos I linked earlier demonstrates this process in action. Once you've found an amount of exercise that you can do without too much pain, the next step is: 4. Graded exposure: gradually exposing yourself to greater amounts of stress in the offending movement. Again, the Alan Thrall video is an excellent example of this in action. As far as red flag symptoms go that suggest you DO have a significant medical issue that should be evaluated by a medical professional, my understanding is that you're looking for: - significant numbness, tingling, or weakness down a limb or across a region of the body that doesn't get better with time - severe pain that doesn't get better with time and graded exposure Here's a BBM podcast that discusses pain and injury management with lifters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDurZ3SS8NE And injury risk in athletes (mostly load and fatigue management): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V43mSQEjZY8 turd in my singlet fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jan 16, 2019 |
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Jan 16, 2019 20:31
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Killing Loaf posted:Thanks! I should probably point out that I'm not a medical professional and my posts shouldn't be taken as medical advice, but the gist of the science is that pain isn't necessarily a serious medical problem and can be worked through with an understanding of the principles involved. Awesome posts and thanks everyone for the videos being posted. This back problem is not my first gym injury so I’m taking it easy, but not giving up. I had an injured rib for weeks and still managed to work out the rest of the body with that (annoying because you can’t even breathe or sleep right) Hanging from a bar feels amazing
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Jan 16, 2019 20:43
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I pulled an intercostal muscle or something. My lifts feel fine but putting on my belt is excruciating. It's the weirdest thing.
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Jan 16, 2019 21:09
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If I stopped training BJJ/lifting every time I had pain of some sort I'd basically have stopped after week 1. It's pretty evident once you've been at it for a while when something is actually broken.
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Jan 16, 2019 21:22
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All of these are also congruent with all the Juggernaut Quinn Henoch stuff that says that for the majority of cases, deliberate warm up sets with perfect technique are all the prehab you need
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Jan 16, 2019 21:24
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Broke my leg NYE and I can already feel my beefiness fade 
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Jan 16, 2019 23:25
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HukHukHuk posted:Broke my leg NYE and I can already feel my beefiness fade It's all in your head, resting is a mistake
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Jan 16, 2019 23:26
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Also someone asked Mike Israetel on the Revive Stronger podcast "is drinking heavily once a month or so going to non-negligibly affect my gains" and his answer was "no, AS LONG AS YOU DON'T HURT YOURSELF DOING DUMB DRUNK poo poo" is that what you did?
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Jan 16, 2019 23:31
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feelix posted:All of these are also congruent with all the Juggernaut Quinn Henoch stuff that says that for the majority of cases, deliberate warm up sets with perfect technique are all the prehab you need Dr Henoch should be way more popular, everything he says is pretty great.
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Jan 16, 2019 23:52
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Shout out to the guy wearing $300 NOBULLs to the lovely, small-town Y that doesn't even have platforms. Living his best life.
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Jan 17, 2019 00:09
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nooneofconsequence posted:Shout out to the guy wearing $300 NOBULLs to the lovely, small-town Y that doesn't even have platforms. Living his best life. I always thought they looked cool as poo poo but they are expensive as hell.
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Jan 17, 2019 00:27
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I unfucked my deadlift technique and pulled my 1RM extremely easily. Rad.
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Jan 17, 2019 00:52
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MikeCrotch posted:I unfucked my deadlift technique and pulled my 1RM extremely easily. Rad. what is the secret
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Jan 17, 2019 00:52
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awesmoe posted:what is the secret *leans in close to your ear* *whispers* scapular retraction
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Jan 17, 2019 00:54
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MarcusSA posted:I always thought they looked cool as poo poo but they are expensive as hell. Oh they look p. sweet they're just a little incongruous with a gym where they're worth more than all the barbells combined.
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Jan 17, 2019 02:56
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The guy at the LA fitness let me in for free becausw it was too much work to ring me up a day pass. Good dude.
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Jan 17, 2019 02:58
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david carmichael posted:The guy at the LA fitness let me in for free becausw it was too much work to ring me up a day pass. Good dude. lol the way LA Fitness's sales and retention benchmarks are set up that guy's gonna lose his job if anyone finds out. Like the only reason they'll sell you a day pass is to get your phone number and email so they can call/text/email you relentlessly with promos.
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Jan 17, 2019 05:14
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