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Arrath
Apr 14, 2011


I'm happy to assume that massive gemheart + weird little spren means that Chasmfiends magic themselves through life tbh.

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Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.
Gemhearts get bigger as the chasmfiend gets bigger, iirc, like magical gemstone pearls. The greatshell islands like in the merchant interlude probably have gemhearts the size of a house, if not larger.

Artonos
Dec 3, 2018
They have a huge gem to store stormlight inside them. That'll do enough to help them live.

Less gravity I think also helps the jumping flying badass/anime fighting that sanderson seems to like. It was a conscious decision for him I'm pretty sure he's said before.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



The safehand stuff literally gets explained enough in book 2 enough to infer the rest.

At some point in distant history an important Vorin published that the womanly arts were all the ones refined enough that you can do with one hand.
Rich women therefore got impractical sleeves as a way of showing how refined they were (that they were masters of those arts and didn't need two hands) while men didn't and so stuff that needed two hands got called a 'manly' art.

The societal norms and taboos evolved from there and the fetishisation is just because hidden = sexy.

It's specifically noted that lower class women don't have time for this crap and just wear a glove since they have to do actual two handed work.

This hasn't been a mystery for literal years now.

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom vroom, BEEP BEEP!
Nap Ghost

bewilderment posted:

The safehand stuff literally gets explained enough in book 2 enough to infer the rest.

At some point in distant history an important Vorin published that the womanly arts were all the ones refined enough that you can do with one hand.
Rich women therefore got impractical sleeves as a way of showing how refined they were (that they were masters of those arts and didn't need two hands) while men didn't and so stuff that needed two hands got called a 'manly' art.

The societal norms and taboos evolved from there and the fetishisation is just because hidden = sexy.

It's specifically noted that lower class women don't have time for this crap and just wear a glove since they have to do actual two handed work.

This hasn't been a mystery for literal years now.

As mentioned earlier through word of Brian, the reason THAT obscure female philosopher got broadcast through Vorin culture was so they could force women to give up their shardblades. Women stealing writing was their revenge in a way.

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009

I started reading Steelheart last night, only read the Prologue but it seems OK. What I want to know is why don't people's clothes change to steel when he starts making the rest of the area turn to metal :thunk:

SynthesisAlpha
Jun 19, 2007
Cyber-Monocle sporting Space Billionaire

Sab669 posted:

I started reading Steelheart last night, only read the Prologue but it seems OK. What I want to know is why don't people's clothes change to steel when he starts making the rest of the area turn to metal :thunk:

They mention later that living things disrupt it, so stuff you're holding/wearing doesn't get affected.

It's Sanderson so of course it gets explained!

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE
It's no wonder that Sanderson thinks about what happens should he die prematurely. People keep asking him that. At a signing two months ago for example. Which spawned a little thread on the 17th Shard forums about this topic.

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/83208-are-you-afraid-of-sanderson-been-unable-to-finish-cosmere/

Nothing special, really. Except for this post:

quote:

I think he would be wise to collaborate more in his writing. Imagine if he did the outlining for a book (for instance, Mistborn Era III) and co-wrote with someone else. He could cover a lot more ground this way. This might be similar to how White Sand or Death Without Pizza is being done.

Of course, the thought of Jim Butcher doing Era III or Patrick Rothfuss doing Aether of Night, could be a lot of fun. These are, of course, very busy authors, but the point stands.

mewse
May 2, 2006

Yeah Bransan should just be the ideas guy and hand off his projects to GRRM it would be amazing

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009

Rothfuss seems busy in the same way you could say I'm busy when I decide to do all manner of cleaning / chores / errands instead of that important thing I'm actually supposed to be doing.

I agree with GRRM that it's a pretty dickish question to ask an author though.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Like, in Bransan's case i could see it naturally coming up in a longer conversation about WoT, but yeah it's a pretty morbid question (and one that has been answered often enough that it shows you didn't google before asking)

SynthesisAlpha
Jun 19, 2007
Cyber-Monocle sporting Space Billionaire

mewse posted:

Yeah Bransan should just be the ideas guy and hand off his projects to GRRM it would be amazing

Sorry I think you mean the worst. I actually think GRRM has good ideas and abysmal writing. But I guess that's how opinions work right?

Also why the gently caress are people calling him Bransan now? He's not a celebrity couple with himself.

mewse
May 2, 2006

SynthesisAlpha posted:

Sorry I think you mean the worst. I actually think GRRM has good ideas and abysmal writing. But I guess that's how opinions work right?

Also why the gently caress are people calling him Bransan now? He's not a celebrity couple with himself.

- I was being sarcastic
- Bransan has wanted to be a writer his entire life, wanting him to be some kinda fantasy novel Stan Lee is ridiculous
- Passing his work to an author like Rothfuss or GRRM, who have their own projects that they can't finish, is ridiculous
- I like saying Bransan (is also ridiculous)

SynthesisAlpha
Jun 19, 2007
Cyber-Monocle sporting Space Billionaire
This loving thread is dripping with sarcasm and it just doesn't loving translate to a goddamn internet forum. I must exist around too many people with ridiculous and awful opinions that I can't pick up when it's ironic.

But you could at least throw in a :suicide:, man.

Chernabog
Apr 16, 2007



I'm about done with "The First Law" trilogy (and stand-alones) what should I move on to next?
Things that I've heard about but haven't read:
-Elantris
-Warbreaker
-Skywhatever
-WoT
-Malazan series

Things I've read already:
-Mistborn era 1 and 1.5
-Arcanum
-Stormlight
-Kingkiller
-Gentlemen bastards
-Licanius

SynthesisAlpha
Jun 19, 2007
Cyber-Monocle sporting Space Billionaire
Warbreaker is solid. Elantris is okay by Sanderson standards but is still better than most crap.

Skyward was a fun read and I suggest that and Reckoners + Rithmatist if you don't mind YA books. All quick fun reads that left me feeling good. First person warning if you can't deal with that.

Wheel of Time, man. I can't really recommend it in 2019. Its time in the sun had passed and there's just better stuff out there. I equate it to reading Lord of the Rings. It's good to know your ancestry but you don't necessarily want to live through it.

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009

SynthesisAlpha posted:

Wheel of Time, man. I can't really recommend it in 2019. Its time in the sun had passed and there's just better stuff out there. I equate it to reading Lord of the Rings. It's good to know your ancestry but you don't necessarily want to live through it.

QFT.

I liken them to The Beatles: wildly popular and influential to a lot of modern musicians I like, but I don't think they're very good.

I don't Hate it either, but when even self-professed fans are like, "Yea books 7-10 are pretty weak" speaks to the true mediocrity of the series.

Infinite Karma
Oct 23, 2004
Good as dead





Chernabog posted:

I'm about done with "The First Law" trilogy (and stand-alones) what should I move on to next?
Things that I've heard about but haven't read:

-Malazan series
This is the best fantasy series I've ever read, at least to my tastes. The first book is good, but a little shaky compared to the rest of the series.

It doesn't hold your hand the way a lot of genre fiction does (it reminds me of more traditional fiction that way), which I enjoy as someone who's read other stuff. Kind of the opposite of Sanderson in that way, for better or worse.

Chernabog
Apr 16, 2007



Thanks for the recommendations. I think I'll skip WoT for now, unless I exhaust all my other options.

New Yorp New Yorp
Jul 18, 2003

Only in Kenya.
Pillbug

Infinite Karma posted:

This is the best fantasy series I've ever read, at least to my tastes. The first book is good, but a little shaky compared to the rest of the series.

It doesn't hold your hand the way a lot of genre fiction does (it reminds me of more traditional fiction that way), which I enjoy as someone who's read other stuff. Kind of the opposite of Sanderson in that way, for better or worse.

It's also polarizing. For example, I didn't like it and would not recommend it. I pushed through and read 9 books and then gave up because I realized I was just reading out of sheer determination to finish and had no idea what the gently caress was going on. Midnight Tides was good, though. That was the only book I enjoyed, mostly because it was self-contained and had a plot that I was capable of following.

mewse
May 2, 2006

Chernabog posted:

I'm about done with "The First Law" trilogy (and stand-alones) what should I move on to next?
Things that I've heard about but haven't read:
-Elantris
-Warbreaker
-Skywhatever
-WoT
-Malazan series

Things I've read already:
-Mistborn era 1 and 1.5
-Arcanum
-Stormlight
-Kingkiller
-Gentlemen bastards
-Licanius

Mistborn era 2 or greatcoats or powder mage

Fezz
Aug 31, 2001

You should feel ashamed.

mewse posted:

Mistborn era 2 or greatcoats or powder mage

He's using the original notation. Unless he means Secret History.

Seconding a recommendation for the Powder Mage books.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Torrannor posted:

It's no wonder that Sanderson thinks about what happens should he die prematurely. People keep asking him that. At a signing two months ago for example. Which spawned a little thread on the 17th Shard forums about this topic.

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/83208-are-you-afraid-of-sanderson-been-unable-to-finish-cosmere/

Nothing special, really. Except for this post:

Please tell me that person was escorted off of the internet premises. Rothfuss, when he actually does write (which is thankfully rare at this point), puts out mediocre yet overhyped garbage. I can only imagine how quickly Rothfuss would gently caress up something like Stormlight Archives, let alone characters like Hoid.

Fezz posted:

He's using the original notation. Unless he means Secret History.

Seconding a recommendation for the Powder Mage books.

Thirding the Powder Mage books.

Chernabog
Apr 16, 2007



Yeah, with 1.5 I meant Wax & Wayne series.

I'll look into that powder mage book.

Leng
May 13, 2006

One song / Glory
One song before I go / Glory
One song to leave behind


No other road
No other way
No day but today

Chernabog posted:

I'm about done with "The First Law" trilogy (and stand-alones) what should I move on to next?
Things that I've heard about but haven't read:
-Malazan series

From earlier in the thread:

Leng posted:

How hard do you want your brain to work?

Malazan is the kind of series that you pick up when you want to give your brain a good workout. It is not a "curl up on the couch with a drink to relax" type of book. The structure of the books are completely atypical as well - there's no gradual introduction to the world, explanation of who characters are, motives behind the different factions, etc. Even when characters are doing inner monologuing, Erikson is careful to represent their thoughts as they really would be - i.e. there's no exposition or reminders of who other characters are, just the character's actual reactions and thoughts to the situation.

Basically, you open the book and you're starting in the middle of a story - or in the case of Book I, at the END of a story, which then segues into the next story. He forces you to piece everything together yourself, by picking up hints from dialogue and action. It is the most mentally exhausting fantasy series that I have ever read, and the sheer head hurt I suffered during the process basically made me never want to go back and re-read it.

Oh, and just like in history, main characters/factions drop in and drop out of the books all the time and the publication order of the books is not consistent with the actual chronology of the world (see Malazan thread for a diagram - yes, a diagram - of the chronology). The switching around between different groups, geographies and storylines can be quite disorientating because it takes so long to get into the story (since you have to work so hard to piece it together) that when you finally get your head around it, you suddenly get bounced to a different story and it's just like "...who on earth are THESE guys?!?!"

The magic system - as already mentioned - is kind of insane and linked to a gigantic pantheon of competing "gods" (who aren't really gods, or at least, not really in that sense, because normal characters can do things to "ascend" and gain powers in weird and non-specific and unpredictable ways). The rules are never described anywhere, though from reading, you can infer that there IS a set of rules, somewhere, but the rules are crazy and contradictory (I could never really work out a cohesive theory).

If you like super tragic epic stories where protagonists/anti-heroes get awfulness beyond description dumped on them endlessly (and I mean endlessly) for the sake of staying true to their values/principles, then you will probably enjoy this a lot. I thought after the first few books Erikson was going to run out of horrors but nope, they just keep coming.

Eventually the plot threads all kind of converge in the final book which is beyond epic but it's a super long wait for the pay-off. There are some very interesting characters, but for the most part, Erikson is dealing with a cast of tens of thousands and after a while, all of the minor characters just kind of all blur together as 2D cardboard cutouts and I struggled to care about them/tell them apart without their gimmick.

Infinite Karma posted:

This is the best fantasy series I've ever read, at least to my tastes.

I salute you. I still haven't gone back to reread it, it was that mentally exhausting, even though I know there would be massive payoffs in terms of what I would pick up the second time around.

Also, Sanderson updated the progress bar on Stormlight 4 - outlining is apparently 25% done!

Xenix
Feb 21, 2003

Leng posted:

massive payoffs in terms of what I would pick up the second time around.

I just finished this series and it was nothing but disappointment from Midnight Tides on.

edit: I was especially letdown by the climax in both Dust of Dreams and The Crippled God. I figured after all those pages, TCG would conclude things in a reasonable manner, but no, it was 900 more pages of Dust of Dreams and a quick unsatisfying ending. No wonder it took me 2 years to get back to DoD after starting it and quitting

Xenix fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Jan 18, 2019

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!
Fun Shoe

Leng posted:

I know there would be massive payoffs in terms of what I would pick up the second time around.
There definitely is, because he is such a "show don't tell" author that he writes the characters' perspectives without ever making any of their background assumptions evident. Trying to figure that out as you go is, as has been said, exhausting because it requires suspending judgement on basically every character and motive until (sometimes) several books after they're dead. Reading the books again with all that background and context in mind is really something though, and there's so much detail of significance to catch that is obviously meant only to be caught on a re-read.

FWIW, I quit halfway through book 1 the first time and skipped to book 2, made it to 4 and was like WTF are all these completely new characters and settings, ugh, and put it down.

The second time, I read all of 1 and eventually made it through 8 which has got some series-ending level climaxes in it. Then I petered out on 9 pretty quickly.

The third time worked out pretty much the same as the second. A few months after that I finally picked up 9 and 10 and powered through them without rereading anything before hand. It was kinda disappointing.

I've read the series all the way through again one other time, and the ending definitely reads better (tons of new characters and before-unrealized plots in those two books that are tough to swallow on a first read), but the highest points (except for Ganoes) are in earlier books. I've definitely hit the middle 7 books several times on their own and they're among my favorites in the genre.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

mewse posted:

- I was being sarcastic
- Bransan has wanted to be a writer his entire life, wanting him to be some kinda fantasy novel Stan Lee is ridiculous
- Passing his work to an author like Rothfuss or GRRM, who have their own projects that they can't finish, is ridiculous
- I like saying Bransan (is also ridiculous)

Brandon wants to be stan lee, in that hew wants to have a cameo in any movies that get adapted from his books, except, as a way of paying for the hell he puts his protagonists through, his cameos will always die

Henrik Zetterberg
Dec 7, 2007

Chapter 35 of Winter’s Heart and I’m so loving excited stuff is actually happening before the last chapter :wow:

e: :lol: I didn’t realize that 35 is the last chapter.

Henrik Zetterberg fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Jan 18, 2019

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.
Malazan is a pen and paper GURPs(?) campaign turned in to novels.


In other words, Malazan is a very detailed Let's Play. :v:

Tahirovic
Feb 25, 2009
Fun Shoe

Henrik Zetterberg posted:

Chapter 35 of Winter’s Heart and I’m so loving excited stuff is actually happening before the last chapter :wow:

e: :lol: I didn’t realize that 35 is the last chapter.

The series starts picking up from here, you can now look forward to some really good chapters like the Maradon ones.

OAquinas
Jan 27, 2008

Biden has sat immobile on the Iron Throne of America. He is the Master of Malarkey by the will of the gods, and master of a million votes by the might of his inexhaustible calamari.

Tahirovic posted:

The series starts picking up from here, you can now look forward to some really good chapters like the Maradon ones.

CoT is kind of the "hold countdown due to wayward boat" to the launch of events, but otherwise yeah--you're pretty much through the worst bits. Even CoT isn't terrible if you just power through it.

Chernabog
Apr 16, 2007



Some would Malazan be bad to listen to? I do most of my "reading" while driving.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon
The people who recorded Malazan did put a lot of effort into making unique voices for all the characters so its not a dull listen. Just very hard to follow for the same reasons its hard to follow in text.

Chernabog
Apr 16, 2007



Yeah, that's what concerns me since I often miss sone bits if somebody cuts me off in traffic or something. But I guess I can just give the first one a go and see.

Thank you all.

Pash
Sep 10, 2009

The First of the Adorable Dead
I tried to read the first Malazan book. It felt like they were intentionally not explaining anything to try to make it mysterious, but it just made me have no idea what was going on.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

Tunicate posted:

Brandon wants to be stan lee, in that hew wants to have a cameo in any movies that get adapted from his books, except, as a way of paying for the hell he puts his protagonists through, his cameos will always die

So basically like Stephen King

New Yorp New Yorp
Jul 18, 2003

Only in Kenya.
Pillbug

Pash posted:

I tried to read the first Malazan book. It felt like they were intentionally not explaining anything to try to make it mysterious, but it just made me have no idea what was going on.

That's how I felt, and that's how the entire rest of the series is. At no point will there ever be any reader-friendly exposition. I kept thinking it would eventually click if I kept going, which is why I managed to read 9 books of a series and do not have the ability to explain anything about the plot. I can remember a few tidbits, like "there are raptors with sword arms", but I don't remember why or how that was important to the plot.

SynthesisAlpha
Jun 19, 2007
Cyber-Monocle sporting Space Billionaire
Do you need to rember anything besides "raptors with sword arms?" Seems like once you include that in a book nothing else really matters.

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Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013



SynthesisAlpha posted:

Do you need to rember anything besides "raptors with sword arms?" Seems like once you include that in a book nothing else really matters.

You’d think, but then you get books like The Dinosaur Knights

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