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You mean having more black CEOs wont fix racism?!
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Jan 16, 2019 21:59
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Goon Danton posted:Right, but how do you get that "real power?" Mutual aid and "serving the people" are ways to gain legitimacy within the greater community so they know you give a poo poo about them, especially in contrast to the government and capital. They're not going to join up with you if they don't think you'll have their backs. well its not for socialists to gain that real power, its for the entire working class. the way the working class does that is by withholding or providing its labor as it sees fit. literally to seize the means of production and put them at the disposal of the democratic will of the workers. to that end, serve the people style work often serves as more or less charity. charity is fine but it doesnt lead to the political organization of workers and it doesnt win workers over to specific political ideas. the goal of socialists isn't to create a parallel network of production to that of capitalisms but to take hold of the production capital has created and put it to work for the workers as a whole and not the capitalists. I wont spend a lot of time developing the following points unless someone cares to continue this sort-of derail cause it would make for a much longer post, but serve the people style work also has the problems of removing socialists from broader labor struggles, creates a barrier of entry for non-radicalized workers, creates a second work-day for workers who join in who spend time trying to provide basic services rather than organize themselves politically, and can be predatory when a party makes people dependent on them to provide those basic services.
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Jan 16, 2019 22:02
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the Demonratic Brocialists of Amerikkka
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Jan 16, 2019 23:20
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:the Demonratic Brocialists of Amerikkka As a founding member of the new Portland red guard I'm here to announce our first action will be making buttons with that slogan and hiding them in the DSA's button cache. The next step is to reappropriate the button presses used in the manufacture of DSA propaganda and hand them to the people.
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Jan 16, 2019 23:52
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I'd much rather see DC DSA work on primarying Hoyer than spending any effort on Sanders, that's for sure
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Jan 17, 2019 00:13
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:the Demonratic Brocialists of Amerikkka The White Knights of St. Bernard
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Jan 17, 2019 01:05
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Calling all mutual aid as charity is pretty disingenuous. Half the work done by these groups isn't even to create a parallel means of production to usurp the one owned by capitalists, it's to create an organizational structure to usurp power due to abandonment by capital. Someone up the thread mentioned the local gov in SF directing people to the local DSA to get masks. Or all the disaster relief work done by leftist orgs in Texas and Florida after the hurricanes because FEMA never showed. It's a very real way to make a lasting impact on a person or a family's life. It may not immediately turn someone socialist, but it can start a conversation or have that person as a participant in future disaster relief work, or involved in political discourse on how to prevent more damage occurring from other bad weather and so on.
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Jan 17, 2019 01:25
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I'd much rather see DC DSA work on primarying Hoyer than spending any effort on Sanders, that's for sure huh. wonder why the liberal would want to see his chapter not work with social democrats. hmm.
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Jan 17, 2019 01:55
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HiHo ChiRho posted:Calling all mutual aid as charity is pretty disingenuous. Half the work done by these groups isn't even to create a parallel means of production to usurp the one owned by capitalists, it's to create an organizational structure to usurp power due to abandonment by capital. I didn't say all "mutual aid" work is charity, just that it can often be. e.g. providing food, money, childcare, etc. for striking workers is mutual aid work but its important and not charity because it empowers workers and helps further a political goal and political organizing by the workers and is a demonstration of political solidarity. the key is so long as the work is tied into a political and organizing goal, and its rooted in the broadest part of the working class and not just the most militant or radical parts. in either case, that kind of mutual aid work still isnt dual power. whether its good or valuable or whatever its still not "building dual power" and the idea of dual power is a specific one that shouldnt be confused with the concept or idea of mutual aid and solidarity
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Jan 17, 2019 02:04
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Ok Anyway for whoever is interested here's the link for Symbiosis which also provides a good reading list about Cooperation Jackson and other efforts: https://www.symbiosis-revolution.org quote:Elements of this approach to community organizing are present across many movements in North America: tenant organizing, municipalism, the solidarity economy, and much more. The primary goal of Symbiosis is to help gather these diverse forces into a movement capable of transforming society. We, along with many partner organizations who share our core values and strategic aims, are hosting a congress in the summer of 2019, at which we hope to launch a confederation of local movement organizations building dual power across North America.
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Jan 17, 2019 02:37
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https://twitter.com/czernobro/status/1085649415644172288?s=19
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Jan 17, 2019 06:31
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Can I be one of the dudes in the angry mob that kicks the bosses to death?
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Jan 17, 2019 06:43
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huh. and here i thought it was the liberal wreckers but what do i know
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Jan 17, 2019 07:43
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Larry Parrish posted:huh. and here i thought it was the liberal wreckers but what do i know  did you think you were lenin, larry?
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Jan 17, 2019 07:46
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lenin suit larry
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Jan 17, 2019 07:50
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https://twitter.com/PGHCityPaper/status/1085892059351957505?s=19 Where most of my chapter's electoral committee is going to since they decided they wanted to cripple their own committee and chapter PAC while also working with their former snake oils salesman chair
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Jan 17, 2019 15:17
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i believe it was lenin who said "DSA needs to focus solely on m4a and roll that into the sanders campaign" could be mistaken though
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Jan 17, 2019 16:13
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Looks like Denver teachers are going to strike. They narrowly avoided a strike last year and have been negotiating for the past year and have been unable to come to a deal. This week was the last round of negotiations, people have been working every day this week. Going to come to a head on Friday, but the schools are jerking them around. Pulling poo poo like this. https://twitter.com/Barberlandia/status/1085624038859235328 Denver DSA is working on getting ready to support. Here's the strike fund if anyone wants to donate directly to the strike fund. https://www.gofundme.com/dcta-strike-fund
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Jan 17, 2019 17:12
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Postoyevsky posted:i believe it was lenin who said "DSA needs to focus solely on m4a and roll that into the sanders campaign" actually it was the bolsheviks themselves who collectively said "listen up y'all, this macro focus on the 'dictatorship of the proletariat' silences the voices of our disabled comrades and also the worker's soviet of minsk who would rather focus on a brake light clinic"
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Jan 17, 2019 17:24
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Tercio posted:actually it was the bolsheviks themselves who collectively said "listen up y'all, this macro focus on the 'dictatorship of the proletariat' silences the voices of our disabled comrades and also the worker's soviet of minsk who would rather focus on a brake light clinic" partly why i avoid inserting myself into DSA factional drama is that every faction sucks rear end in differing ways
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Jan 17, 2019 17:31
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Juggalo_Brocialism
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Jan 17, 2019 18:38
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Postoyevsky posted:partly why i avoid inserting myself into DSA factional drama is that every faction sucks rear end in differing ways good luck keeping that going if you're active in any committees or projects. I just got dragged into it when a very active volunteer burned out and quit the org because she was tired of feeling sandbagged by our antielectoralism & anti m4a SC. My local is relatively non-catty and unified group, too small for official factions yet we've had some flare ups. Volunteer orgs attract people who are passionate and have strong opinions about stuff and sometimes we disagree or have different agendas. Hell, I'm just glad I have SA and a partner who isn't at all involved with DSA so I can vent here and to her, then smile and try and get the job done when with my comrades.
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Jan 17, 2019 18:51
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Coolness Averted posted:good luck keeping that going if you're active in any committees or projects. I just got dragged into it when a very active volunteer burned out and quit the org because she was tired of feeling sandbagged by our antielectoralism & anti m4a SC. My local is relatively non-catty and unified group, too small for official factions yet we've had some flare ups. Volunteer orgs attract people who are passionate and have strong opinions about stuff and sometimes we disagree or have different agendas. i'm not really much any more. i'm a labor organizer as my day job though so i work with DSA chapters in various locales on certain campaigns
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Jan 17, 2019 18:54
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achillesforever6 posted:https://twitter.com/PGHCityPaper/status/1085892059351957505?s=19 https://www.facebook.com/1818254615126435/posts/2250457098572849/
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Jan 18, 2019 05:18
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achillesforever6 posted:And referring to the drama with Electoral and the chapter as a whole, our chapter finally issued an apology for the actions of said snake oilsman and just a bunch of other toxic poo poo that happened in the chapter last year that took way too long to acknowledge and apologize for uhh this is kinda weird, because it's a 7 paragraph apology that's mostly just throwing shade at former members, which is not a great look! Slanderer has issued a correction as of 05:33 on Jan 18, 2019 |
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Jan 18, 2019 05:28
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Slanderer posted:uhh this is kinda weird, because it's a 7 paragraph apology that's mostly just throwing shade at former members, which is not a great look! And sometimes some poo poo needs to be stirred up, it could have been more detailed and direct
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Jan 18, 2019 06:26
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Slanderer posted:uhh this is kinda weird, because it's a 7 paragraph apology that's mostly just throwing shade at former members, which is not a great look! You spend half of this drat thread showing shade and making GBS threads on leftist ideologies you disagree with, what the gently caress do you care Let me speak to your police chief, bitch. I want to file a complaint
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Jan 18, 2019 06:41
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And I don't know why people care about Moraff getting shade thrown at, guy is a jagoff who will throw people under the bus to save his own skin 100% the time. The problem with the co-chairs (and the reason I'm glad we got rid of it) was that it gave them a sense of authority even though all they really did was chair meetings. Like you shouldn't be all upset and near tears about losing the position because it's so superfluous when it comes down to it. That and maybe don't let it go to your head and start whining to your Philly/NYC DSA friends that the anarchists (and then name people who aren't even anarchists) ousted you from power and have overtaken the chapter. Maybe don't treat your position as a way to become a leftist online celebrity/personality.
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Jan 18, 2019 14:00
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Really a fan of us getting rid of "at-large" chair and co-chair positions. We still have a Secretary and Treasurer, but our Steering Committee is made up of the chairs of each permanent committee we have. Committes elect their chairs. I like that. Works much better.
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Jan 18, 2019 16:02
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Internet Explorer posted:Really a fan of us getting rid of "at-large" chair and co-chair positions. We still have a Secretary and Treasurer, but our Steering Committee is made up of the chairs of each permanent committee we have. Committes elect their chairs. i've been pushing for something like this in my chapter, but the amount of people interested is still pretty low. the arguments i hear against it is "it's undemocratic", and i'm not really well-versed enough to argue against that.
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Jan 18, 2019 16:36
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I'd be interested in hearing the arguments for that too. in writing our bylaws I proposed an SC of officers and elected committee chairs, but also wanted to include at large sc members so that we have at least a 1:30 (might have been 15) ratio of sc to general membership. I figured this would keep things more democratic but I'm not married to it.
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Jan 18, 2019 16:52
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The issue brought up at our own internal discussions is that if its within committees that the majority of the steering commitee is elected, its more or less self-selecting and there's not necessarily much of a connection between those elected officers and the body as a whole. Kind of depends on what you want officers to be or do though. If its merely an administrative role, that's not a big deal, but it is if they act as a spokesbody as well.
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Jan 18, 2019 18:00
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Reminded of one of the old titles I think, 'fake power corrupts obnoxiously'. Organising struggles with how it attracts the kind of people who go mad with power on a bake sale.
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Jan 18, 2019 18:04
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Internet Explorer posted:Really a fan of us getting rid of "at-large" chair and co-chair positions. We still have a Secretary and Treasurer, but our Steering Committee is made up of the chairs of each permanent committee we have. Committes elect their chairs. Ghost Leviathan posted:Reminded of one of the old titles I think, 'fake power corrupts obnoxiously'. Organising struggles with how it attracts the kind of people who go mad with power on a bake sale.
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Jan 18, 2019 18:07
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It actually happens just as much with organisers on any side of the political spectrum, it's just more noticeable and frustrating with leftists since they don't have big money think tanks to pay for ad campaigns. Reminded of that Sarah Palin forum where the admin had refused to give any of the mods actual mod powers.
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Jan 18, 2019 18:10
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https://mobile.twitter.com/malloy_online/status/1085971274231209984
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Jan 19, 2019 00:00
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I wasn't able to be at it but by all accounts the Detroit auto show protest was a success, was super packed, and Rashida Tlaib showed up.
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Jan 19, 2019 02:00
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The DSA should have great taste, but be less filling.
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Jan 19, 2019 02:04
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thicc_waluigi posted:I wasn't able to be at it but by all accounts the Detroit auto show protest was a success, was super packed, and Rashida Tlaib showed up. Nice. I’m pretty sure KM went, I’ll ask her if she got any good pictures or video.
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Jan 19, 2019 02:06
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lol that poo poo a few posts above is larping
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Jan 19, 2019 02:22
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