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Cat Mattress posted:Sandy Petersen is a better mapper than Romero. I'm sorry but no. He made inescapable pits that didn't even have the courtesy to instakill. That is the exact opposite of good mapping.
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Jan 18, 2019 06:47
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Keiya posted:I'm sorry but no. He made inescapable pits that didn't even have the courtesy to instakill. That is the exact opposite of good mapping. sandy gives you stuff like that, but he also gives you wild journeys and cool as hell encounters. you take the good with the bad.
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Jan 18, 2019 06:52
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The Quake 1.5 beta is out. It's interesting, I'll give it that.
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Jan 18, 2019 07:31
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Narcissus1916 posted:Wow. Wolfenstein 2 does not get better. Please do not insult the head of map making, a box turtle named Zoomy Barudak fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Jan 18, 2019 |
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Jan 18, 2019 07:33
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Cat Mattress posted:Sandy Petersen is a better mapper than Romero. Jesus Christ dude My controversial opinion is that I like first-person platforming 
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Jan 18, 2019 07:54
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Mak0rz posted:My controversial opinion is that I like first-person platforming I like it when the game and movement are based around platforming, and I don't think we get enough of that Here, let me expand on these theories with a little sumfin-sumfin of my own, hehe *unravels a dozen pages of detailed design notes for a game that will only ever exist in my imagination*
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Jan 18, 2019 08:23
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:What's your controversial yet positive classic FPS opinion? Actually, for some real controversy, "Habitat" is not a bad map.
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Jan 18, 2019 08:23
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comingafteryouall posted:Civvie's videos are making me check out classic Shadow Warrior. This game is kicking my rear end after playing through Doom and Doom 2 on ultraviolence only struggling on one or two maps. Just remember explosives are you friend. You get plenty of ammo for them and they make quick work of all the common enemies. The grenade launcher is especially helpful since you can just dump them all over the place and around corners especially.
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Jan 18, 2019 08:47
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Mak0rz posted:Jesus Christ dude Hell, me too.
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Jan 18, 2019 08:57
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Yeah, that's the grand takeaway for most Build Engine FPSes in the end, isn't it? I mean Duke's shotgun is still somewhat satisfying, but with enemies getting beefy enough to take multiple shots with no hitstun as early in the bestiary as the pig cops, and with somewhere between a third to a half of your weapons being explosive in nature, it makes a lot of sense to break out the explosives ASAP. Likewise, anyone who's played Blood knows the joys of tossing TNT around corners so you aren't immediately pelted with sniper shotgun fire from across the hallway. I haven't gotten into Shadow Warrior, but Civvie's videos sure make it seem about as bullshit as those games can get, so it makes sense that the big guns are often needed here too. Kinda makes me wonder how the gun balance is in PC Powerslave, given all the other Build shooters 3D Realms had any hand in had that kind of balance. The other guns felt fine in the console versions, didn't feel the overwhelming need to Amun Bomb everything in my sight (unless it was a weak wall  ), but at the same time, I recall Powerslave's PC version was generally much more lackluster, so weirdly spongy enemies that can be easily circumvented with explosives could be one way in which it is.
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Jan 18, 2019 09:01
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrq1T93uLag This looks pretty cool!
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Jan 18, 2019 13:02
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Weird to go to all that trouble and then not implement particles or moving dynamic lights. I love seeing new GPU technology immediately being used in q1 or q2 engines. The first two quake engines are the netbsd of graphics programming.
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Jan 18, 2019 13:21
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I should probably play through Doom 2 again, but my super hot takeaway from this is that I like it when levels, as abstract as they are and need to be, have some sort of relatable structure to them. Episode 1 of Doom 1 had this, and it was great. I appreciate the other two episodes (haven't beaten TFC because  ), and the 'turning into hell' vibe they had going. With Doom 2, again from what I remember, there just weren't many places that seemed as fun to play in, aside from some gimmick maps. And gimmick maps are great, as long as in between them, you have honest-to-goodness good levels.I should probably get into Doom level design. I'm not saying they're good, but making some would open up a whole new world of appreciation and critique of the professionally made ones. Also, while I haven't beaten it, I love every single map of Going Down. 
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Jan 18, 2019 13:34
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My favorite map of doom 2 is suburbs and i dont care who knows
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Jan 18, 2019 13:36
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Barudak posted:My favorite map of doom 2 is suburbs and i dont care who knows For a game that's supposedly set on Earth... like.... 2 of the 30 standard levels get close to resembling something Earth-like. Again, Episode 1 of Doom 1 does a better job of that. Change out the skybox and mission end stat screen background, and you could set this on a military complex on Earth.
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Jan 18, 2019 13:58
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Convex posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrq1T93uLag I remember they made a raytraced version of Quake 2 some years ago, way before Nvidia released RTX. I was wondering these last few days how it would work with that new GPU. Frame rate not as smooth as I thought it would be. Maybe that Q2 build can be further optimized? EDIT: Never mind about the frame rate, it's just choppy on the embedded video but looks fine on YouTube proper. Negostrike fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Jan 18, 2019 |
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Jan 18, 2019 14:04
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One thing that always bugged me about Quake 2 is that there's no weapon bobbing when running around. Is Bitterman just gliding along the floor or something? Come on.
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Jan 18, 2019 15:33
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Despite his hubris, Romero is a legendary level designer and if I were to rank my favourite Doom and Doom 2 maps, I would probably put all of Romero's at the top. There was nobody else at id who even came close. Sandy's maps are hit-or-miss, but he still has some good stuff. I've always liked The Citadel and Monster Condo especially, and they'd probably be at the top of the non-Romero pile. For some reason I don't care for American McGee's maps. They look polished but ultimately they just come off as a bunch of hallways.
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Jan 18, 2019 15:35
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Doom 2 level design is of course better than Doom 1. They had more experience with the game, and it shows. Yes, it has a pair of weaker levels in the middle, but it's just a dip, overall is great. Some levels feel more involved and elaborate, it has bigger variety of situations, it mix up things more often which is needed in a game as 'pure' as Doom, it has memorable moments, and the general progression from techbase to city to hell is great. BTW, now that we are talking of Doom opinions, am I the only one who loves Doom 2 approach to 'Hell' ? Doom 3 and Doom'16 use a more traditional approach of medieval brimstone, ash, blood and desolate wasteland which is boring imo. Doom 2 used the concept of Hell as alien dimension, melding the traditional medieval look (wood, stone, candles) with another style that had emphasis on abstractness, weird color palettes, animated textures and blinking lights, and well, weird stuff in general combined with more typical Hell imagery and gore.
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Jan 18, 2019 15:47
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Mak0rz posted:One thing that always bugged me about Quake 2 is that there's no weapon bobbing when running around. Is Bitterman just gliding along the floor or something? Come on. My controversial fps opinion is that I hate head bobbing and turn it off immediately in every game
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Jan 18, 2019 16:09
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It's hard to beat Doom 1 E1 but I'm inclined to give the edge to Doom 2 overall, although I'm biased because I rented Doom 2 as a kid and played all the way through it, whereas I only played episodes 2-4 of Doom 1 a few years back. I think maybe it doesn't quite get off to the greatest start, and the atmospherics don't quite live up. It doesn't tell as much of a "story". But map-for-map, yeah, probably better overall. Ones that stand out in my memory as some of the best maps: O of Destruction, Industrial Zone, and The Living End.
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Jan 18, 2019 16:11
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Refuelling Base is my favourite because it's one of the more action-packed levels and has a more open layout. Doom 2 levels had more thought put into multiplayer, too. There are a bunch of levels in Doom that would have made great multiplayer levels because they were laid out like arenas (E1M8, E2M8/9, E3M8 for instance) but without the use of deathmatch-only weapon and item spawns are very sparse on pickups. Doom 2 made good use of deathmatch-only pickups to make levels more packed. BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jan 18, 2019 |
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Jan 18, 2019 16:12
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:What's your controversial yet positive classic FPS opinion?  I think Perfect Dark is a better game than Goldeneye and possibly the best game on the N64. site posted:My controversial fps opinion is that I hate head bobbing and turn it off immediately in every game There are people who leave head bobbing on? 
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Jan 18, 2019 16:51
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v They were a nice change of pace, did my favorite thing sci-fi does (get Weird and Cosmic in the final act), and I thought Valve did the best they could given the circumstances, technology, and time constraints.
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BattleMaster posted:Refuelling Base is my favourite because it's one of the more action-packed levels and has a more open layout. Ok, yeah, I have to say this is definitely one of my favourites. Goddamn, I should play Doom 2 more; I always start, and then by map 4 or 5, I'm just kind of done. It's been years since I went through the whole thing, guess I'll have to fix that. EDIT: I guess I just really don't like a bunch of maps within the first 10 or so. Looking over the later ones, there's some great stuff there. I'm terrible and can never remember map names, though. ToxicFrog posted:
This is the correct opinion. Rupert Buttermilk fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jan 18, 2019 |
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Jan 18, 2019 16:58
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Problem with Perfect Dark is the second half of the game (basically everything after the oil rig) is nowhere near as good. Aliens aren't as fun to fight and the environments aren't as interesting to explore. Admittedly Goldeneye was guilty of reusing a few levels but by and large it was fairly consistent quality wise, albeit with a loving enormous difficulty spike getting through Control on 00 Agent.
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Jan 18, 2019 17:11
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Convex posted:Problem with Perfect Dark is the second half of the game (basically everything after the oil rig) is nowhere near as good. Aliens aren't as fun to fight and the environments aren't as interesting to explore. Admittedly Goldeneye was guilty of reusing a few levels but by and large it was fairly consistent quality wise, albeit with a loving enormous difficulty spike getting through Control on 00 Agent. What level was this?
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Jan 18, 2019 17:13
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:What level was this? The one where you have to protect Natalya while she hacks into the Goldeneye satellite in the control room. Enemies come through about 3 different doors so you have to keep scanning left and right, also if you get shot you can get stunlocked while they riddle her with bullets 
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Jan 18, 2019 17:15
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Convex posted:Problem with Perfect Dark is the second half of the game (basically everything after the oil rig) Convex posted:The one where you have to protect Natalya while she hacks into the Goldeneye satellite in the control room.
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Jan 18, 2019 17:19
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Ah I didn't notice the bolding. Thought he was referring to control in GE. The oil rig in PD is the one before you go to the underwater alien ship? It's full of guys in red overalls. I always thought it was an oil rig anyway, it's been a long time since I played it!
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Jan 18, 2019 17:29
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I think Convex is answering "what level is Control" while also thinking that the Perfect Dark level "Pelagic II: Exploration" is set on a oil rig rather than a submarine. I agree that the later levels ("Deep Sea", "Carrington Institute", "Attack Ship", and "Skedar Ruins") are weaker, but that's still only four levels out of 17 (or 5 out of 20, if count the special assignments), which is a pretty good ratio, especially since (IMO) they aren't bad, they just don't live up to the standard set by the rest of the game. Also, I'd rather play through all four of those levels back to back than play "Control" even one more time, so there's that.
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Jan 18, 2019 17:32
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I find it odd that people don't like the level designs in Doom episodes 3 and 4. They're great! Episode 2 I can understand. Turin Turambar posted:BTW, now that we are talking of Doom opinions, am I the only one who loves Doom 2 approach to 'Hell' ? Doom 3 and Doom'16 use a more traditional approach of medieval brimstone, ash, blood and desolate wasteland which is boring imo. Doom 2 used the concept of Hell as alien dimension, melding the traditional medieval look (wood, stone, candles) with another style that had emphasis on abstractness, weird color palettes, animated textures and blinking lights, and well, weird stuff in general combined with more typical Hell imagery and gore. I like Doom 64's approach with fortresses, dungeons, and castle courtyards adorned with satanic imagery and cages and the like. I don't know why. I guess it makes Hell's army feel like an organized force instead of a horde of mindless demons. Some of that architecture comes out in Doom 2 as well.
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Jan 18, 2019 18:04
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Re: Goldeneye vs Perfect Dark Its hard to compare because Perfect Dark in particular had MASSIVE performance issues back in the day. And its not like Goldeneye ran smoothly (at least by modern standards) either. And the XBLA remaster of Perfect Dark is just so loving good. Probably the best remaster of a title I think I've ever seen. Silky smooth framerate, improved graphics that still look and feel like the original, somehow even more ways to dick around with multiplayer, AND the addition of modern control schemes.
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Jan 18, 2019 18:36
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Narcissus1916 posted:somehow even more ways to dick around with multiplayer Are you referring to the fact that it was now online? Otherwise, I don't remember anything being added, and I played the living hell out of both the original and the XBLA version.
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Jan 18, 2019 18:49
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Are you referring to the fact that it was now online? Otherwise, I don't remember anything being added, and I played the living hell out of both the original and the XBLA version. More frames were added
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Jan 18, 2019 20:26
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I know I've already stated this opinion in the past, but I liked Goldeneye's single-player more than Perfect Dark's, despite PD's clearly being more-fleshed-out. Not that I begrudge anyone for thinking the opposite, I merely feel what I feel. I need to play the XBLA port already. I own Rare Replay and all, so I have it, but 
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Jan 18, 2019 21:11
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Goldeneye multiplayer was amazing because it had proximity mines. Perfect Dark multiplayer was exponentially better because it had a gun that shot bullets then turned into a gun-shaped proximity mine. Bonus points if you threw it on the weapon spawn so it would kill anyone who didn't notice that the pickup was at a slightly incorrect angle.
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Jan 18, 2019 21:37
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Narcissus1916 posted:Re: Goldeneye vs Perfect Dark Did you finish Wolf 2? I'd like a writeup. I was really disappointed with the sequel and want to relive that disappointment through other posts.
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Jan 18, 2019 21:40
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Shadow Hog posted:I need to play the XBLA port already. I own Rare Replay and all, so I have it, but You really do need to play it already, JEEZE. It's seriously amazing and completely changed my opinion on the game.
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Jan 18, 2019 22:19
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Narcissus1916 posted:Wow. Wolfenstein 2 does not get better. I couldn't even bring myself to finish TNO let alone TNC, which is a shame because killing sci-fi nazis feels like it should be way more engrossing.
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Jan 19, 2019 01:08
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Wild T posted:Goldeneye multiplayer was amazing because it had proximity mines. PD multiplayer with nothing but tranquilizers, N-bombs, and prox mines in the weapon table
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Jan 19, 2019 04:25
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