Payday 3: We've Been Robbed

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Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

current draft Crackdown player side rebalance features are below. All of this is under discussion and super tentative, and primarily reflect my personal opinions-Kith has his own ideas that we're working to reconcile.

I really want feedback on all this! I'll also be posting a player side rebalance survey in the coming week for further feedback, with some sort of mask code drawing as a prize.

Weapons
Almost all ammo pickup values/preset ranges will be adjusted. Generally, heavier weapons will be harder to sustain on their own, but lighter weapons will be more effective.
Heavy pistols will pierce armor. Revolvers will pierce armor and shields.
LMGs will have greatly reduced (or zero) ammo pickup. We have planned code tweaks that will make bipods useable.
LMGs may get armor piercing to incentivize wild spraying.
A movement penalty may or may not be applied to LMGs or miniguns.
GLs will likely have increased damage and reduced or zero ammo pickup.
Shotgun ammo types and mods are under heavy debate. There are conflicting views on the subject. General question: How useful is the horizontal leveller?
Fire DoT will be adjusted. Flamethrowers will likely also get zero ammo pickup.
The Saw will be able to proc an ambient panic effect.
The Patchett will be decent again.

Many mods that are either "optimum" and offer no meaningful alternatives will become cosmetic, such as most gadgets, most sights, some trim items such as shell racks/grips, and many "common" AR items such as stocks or foregrips.

Throwing Weapons
Low priority. Non-explosive throwing weapons may get their own perk deck, but they are very hard to balance.

Melee Weapons
Low priority. Many melee weapons will be made identical. Some will become clearly suboptimal joke/gimmick weapons.

Skills
Most skills will be small quality of life benefits, with some baseline functions automatically given to players. Skills that heavily influence playstyle and build will be relocated to perk decks.
Graze, Inspire Aced, Jokers, and Swan Song will all be nerfed by either being perk deck-specific, or by direct nerfs, or both.
Examples (again, super tentative):

Inspire Aced (tentatively added to Crew Chief) may let you perform the raise interaction at range, such as 7m, on a cooldown.
Jokers (tentatively added to Ex-President) will retain their current health when converted, rather than healing to full (they are also much harder to get).
Graze (tentatively added to Hitman) will likely trigger panic, suppression or stun animations, rather than do magic invisible damage.
Swan Song (tentatively added to Kingpin)may refill the weapon upon being procced, rather than giving infinite ammo.
ECM Skills (added to Hacker) will generally make feedback global and more useful.
Drill Skills (added to Burglar and maybe another loud deck).

Perk Decks
Perk Decks will enhance and focus existing playstyles to incentivize specific roles or feel in combat.They will also incentivize team play, where possible. There were too many of these garbage things before, and many early ones were effectively weaker versions of later ones. By folding skills into them we can give them more of an identity. This becomes the more important area for build decisionmaking.

Please give me your thoughts on all this.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Jan 19, 2019

# ? Jan 19, 2019 05:36

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# ? May 30, 2024 20:00

Shooting Blanks: Jun 6, 2007; Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade

Kith posted:

I have plans for dodge, but they're not going public until later. Most weapons will be getting a Concealment boost and/or adjustment as part of the overhaul (especially Light ARs), so that should tide you over until then.

If you've played a lot of dodge, then awesome. If you haven't and you're running blind - hit me up on Discord (I'm on there) or on Steam and I'm happy to talk through some stuff. It's what I've done for the vast majority of my time in this game.

# ? Jan 19, 2019 09:54

ArkInBlack: Mar 22, 2013

Don't remove the Injector is basically my only thought on Perk Decks.

# ? Jan 19, 2019 12:36

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

Shooting Blanks posted:

If you've played a lot of dodge, then awesome. If you haven't and you're running blind - hit me up on Discord (I'm on there) or on Steam and I'm happy to talk through some stuff. It's what I've done for the vast majority of my time in this game.

Before Grinder and Anarchist hit the scene, I was a Dodge Boy because I liked going fast. Once sustain decks entered the meta I switched tactics, but I remember the old days.

ArkInBlack posted:

Don't remove the Injector is basically my only thought on Perk Decks.

One of the few things that Vox and I agree on is making the Perk Deck Throwables available outside of the Perk Decks. How that's going to work for things like the Hip Flask or the Injector is currently unclear, but that's mostly because I've been preoccupied with getting the Weapon adjustments outlined first.

# ? Jan 19, 2019 13:37

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

Discendo Vox posted:

Weapons
Almost all ammo pickup values/preset ranges will be adjusted. Generally, heavier weapons will be harder to sustain on their own, but lighter weapons will be more effective.
Heavy pistols will pierce armor. Revolvers will pierce armor and shields.
LMGs will have greatly reduced (or zero) ammo pickup. We have planned code tweaks that will make bipods useable.
LMGs may get armor piercing to incentivize wild spraying.
A movement penalty may or may not be applied to LMGs or miniguns.
GLs will likely have increased damage and reduced or zero ammo pickup.
Shotgun ammo types and mods are under heavy debate. There are conflicting views on the subject. General question: How useful is the horizontal leveller?
Fire DoT will be adjusted. Flamethrowers will likely also get zero ammo pickup.
The Saw will be able to proc an ambient panic effect.
The Patchett will be decent again.

I have felt heavier pistols have needed more reason to be used. Seems like the smaller ones have a much easier time reaching their potential. And yes, more often than once I've given up on pistol focus just because I didn't want to rely on Shock and Awe with a goddamn pistol and I can't stand the 5/7 being worthwhile for exactly one thing.

Armour piercing for LMGs seems nice but I am keeping in mind that based on the skill trees, this is 9 points I have to put somewhere else in the Oppressor tree because Body Expertise is such a big deal when going for LMG spray and pray.

Answer to the question "How useful is the horizontal leveller?": By design, it makes it easier to get multiple headshots at the cost of requiring you to get the height correct and it seems to do this quite well. It's especially powerful if you use Dragon's Breath where aiming even at the right height doesn't matter in the slightest, as cops tend not to be to the up or down of one another.

More detail needed on the saw. Is this all noise from the saw or do I have to spend its ammo? Saws are supremely godawful and need something spectacular to be worth consideration as a weapon.

quote:

Melee Weapons
Low priority. Many melee weapons will be made identical. Some will become clearly suboptimal joke/gimmick weapons.

Bloodthirst Ace is very important to guns with terrible reload times and I hope this detail isn't ignored - or at least dismissed with a compelling reason.

quote:

Skills
Most skills will be small quality of life benefits, with some baseline functions automatically given to players. Skills that heavily influence playstyle and build will be relocated to perk decks.
Graze, Inspire Aced, Jokers, and Swan Song will all be nerfed by either being perk deck-specific, or by direct nerfs, or both.
Examples (again, super tentative):

Inspire Aced (tentatively added to Crew Chief) may let you perform the raise interaction at range, such as 7m, on a cooldown.

Jokers (tentatively added to Ex-President) will retain their current health when converted, rather than healing to full (they are also much harder to get).

Graze (tentatively added to Hitman) will likely trigger panic, suppression or stun animations, rather than do magic invisible damage.

Swan Song (tentatively added to Kingpin)may refill the weapon upon being procced, rather than giving infinite ammo.

ECM Skills (added to Hacker) will generally make feedback global and more useful.

Drill Skills (added to Burglar and maybe another loud deck).

Generally, I'm not sure how well this will go. I feel like you're going to end up with RAID with that approach.

Inspire Aced is going to cause problems like that if a player would rather be interacting with anything else.

Graze makes sense in the context of fewer enemies to deal with. All the times I've played Crackdown, I did not appear to ever actually contend with fewer enemies. Turns out fewer on the map isn't always the same thing.

Removing the time and not the infinite ammo from Swan Song was a mistake I'm glad to see you moving to correct it.

I'm uncertain as to why you want to put drills into what is, at least at present, a stealth build. Stealth is not where you're under pressure to get things done yesterday, just where relevant skills are so few that you have to look for things to spend points on.

quote:

Perk Decks
Perk Decks will enhance and focus existing playstyles to incentivize specific roles or feel in combat.They will also incentivize team play, where possible. There were too many of these garbage things before, and many early ones were effectively weaker versions of later ones. By folding skills into them we can give them more of an identity. This becomes the more important area for build decisionmaking.

You've seen my ~~shitpost~~ commentary on the individual decks themselves from the last time you asked.

I would go off on one about how they have so much more influence on how you play than your skill points (partly because the decks themselves start to dictate what you buy, mostly because after those ones and the universal staples, they're kind of terrible) but it seems like your explicit goal to embrace that to the extent of putting actual heisting roles into them.

# ? Jan 19, 2019 15:21

Tempest_56: Mar 14, 2009

Discendo Vox posted:

LMGs will have greatly reduced (or zero) ammo pickup. We have planned code tweaks that will make bipods useable.
LMGs may get armor piercing to incentivize wild spraying.

These two are pretty much entirely at odds with each other. Why in god's name would you want to fire wildly with a weapon that is unsustainable?

quote:

Melee Weapons
Low priority. Many melee weapons will be made identical. Some will become clearly suboptimal joke/gimmick weapons.

So the same as it is already? There's already only, what, like four melee weapons that aren't joke/gimmicks and two of them are tasers.

# ? Jan 19, 2019 16:09

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

maswastaken posted:

Saws are supremely godawful and need something spectacular to be worth consideration as a weapon.

how do you feel about 50% damage reduction while sprinting with a saw

# ? Jan 19, 2019 16:50

EorayMel: May 30, 2015; WE GET IT. YOU LOVE GUN JESUS. Toujours des fusils Bullpup Fran�ais.

Make the saw expend no ammo when it's cutting enemies and you'll have yourself a quality gimmick weapon.

# ? Jan 19, 2019 16:58

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

EorayMel posted:

Make the saw expend no ammo when it's cutting enemies and you'll have yourself a quality gimmick weapon.

stop reading my design notes

# ? Jan 19, 2019 17:08

UnknownMercenary: Nov 1, 2011; I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD

I don't feel at all like making the majority of weapon mods into cosmetic only upgrades is the right way to go; you would just be continuing down Jules' path of complete weapon homogenization. There are broad issues with it that need to be addressed but not by making everything the same by removing all the stats. Before the Ultimate Edition certain mods only existed with extremely good stats because they were DLC bait, but now that the UE theoretically puts everyone at equal footing that's something that can be addressed.

I'd lower the accuracy and stability bonuses for the majority of mods that are shared across multiple weapons/classes (so this means most stocks and barrel extensions), along with making free equivalents/almost equivalents to certain items. Example: lower the accuracy bonus for the tactical compensator; add an accuracy bonus to one of the existing vanilla barrel extensions. You can safely homogenize a lot of magazine stats (nobody gives a toss if the expert mag, L5 or tactical mag have unique stats because they're all near identical anyway). The speedpull definitely needs its reload bonus lowered. Unique items like receivers, foregrips etc I would leave alone. Sights and gadgets should only have concealment penalties. One of the ideas I was throwing around before Jules removed silencer skills was making flat damage bonuses relevant again but that's probably overboard now unless y'all plan to bring Specialized Killing back.

# ? Jan 19, 2019 18:14

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

UnknownMercenary posted:

I don't feel at all like making the majority of weapon mods into cosmetic only upgrades is the right way to go; you would just be continuing down Jules' path of complete weapon homogenization.

Even if we slapped 100 Acc/100 Stab on every Assault Rifle, there's enough variance in Rate of Fire, Magazine Size, Reserve Ammo, Reload Speed, and hidden kick/spread values that each weapon in the category would still feel comparatively unique. Of course, we're not doing that, but the point still stands.

That said, the difference between what we're aiming for and what Jules did is that Jules' direction ensured that only a handful of weapon types truly stood out because he had a weird idea of what Payday 2 should play like (which iirc was insanely obvious if you ever watched him play on a stream). I plan on making every weapon type useful (and, ideally, tune each individual weapon to handle uniquely somewhere in there), even if they're not necessarily to my tastes.

# ? Jan 19, 2019 19:11

ClonedPickle: Apr 23, 2010

Discendo Vox posted:

Heavy pistols will pierce armor. Revolvers will pierce armor and shields.

If you do this, I'd recommend re-branding the 5-7 into a low-damage armor piercing gun. It's a gimmick gun with a useful gimmick, and I'd like to see it remain a unique sidearm. Also, in other pistolchat, please dear god buff the fire rate of every pistol, or at least every akimbo pistol. There's currently only a few usable pistols and I'm saying that entirely because their throttled fire rate is anti-fun and if it's not fun I'm not gonna use it! Also, throw the fire rate buff skill into the sun.

Discendo Vox posted:

A movement penalty may or may not be applied to LMGs or miniguns.

Don't. Movement penalties are inherently unfun. I'd understand if the miniguns got one (and would continue to not use them), but don't do it to LMGs.

Discendo Vox posted:

The Patchett will be decent again.

Good. I don't know how this was thrown onto the pile of low-damage, high-ammo SMGs at a time when the only high-damage ones were the Krinkov and the CR-805b. Oh, hey, while you're at it, give the Valkyria the same treatment: turn it into a high-damage/low-ammo gun. Its low mag size sucks for the low-damage/high-ammo role.

Discendo Vox posted:

Many mods that are either "optimum" and offer no meaningful alternatives will become cosmetic, such as most gadgets, most sights, some trim items such as shell racks/grips, and many "common" AR items such as stocks or foregrips.

Ehhhhh. Keep as many mods as meaningful choices as possible. Like, the lasers with a concealment penalty should still buff stability, but it should probably be all the same buff so people aren't forced to use the LED combo over the tactical module or whatever because one has a better stability bonus. The muzzles definitely need some sort of adjustment - the Competitor's Comp is the best overall and there's something else that's best for straight accuracy, and that's about it unless you're worried about concealment. Futzing with the stock is usually necessary for a concealment build, so don't make those all the same, but if you run out of meaningful choices to make because there's so many stocks then yeah just make some cosmetic swaps. Would be nice to see the no-scope option for the few snipers that have it grant a concealment buff, too.

Discendo Vox posted:

Skills / Perk Decks

This just sounds like it's going to end poorly. Sorry for the vote of no confidence, but tying top-end skills to perk decks sounds like a deathblow to build diversity. I'd rather see lovely skills and decks buffed to the point of being viable alternatives to the bog standard, but it's not my mod.

Kith posted:

I have plans for dodge, but they're not going public until later. Most weapons will be getting a Concealment boost and/or adjustment as part of the overhaul (especially Light ARs), so that should tide you over until then.

I've spent a lot of time in the inventory theorycrafting gun loadouts for low concealment builds, so here's what I've found to be the best in my opinion:

Izhma / HE Judge ex-prez build - suit, shotgun skills. Izhma is crazy ammo efficient (I'm not saying nerf it, fyi) to make up for the Judge. Judge is utility for shields, dozer faces, Swan Song, or to break your armor in a safe corner to make ex-prez do its thing.

Micro-Uzi suppressed grinder - LBV, suppressor skills, mild automatic skills, 23 conceal primary. Top 3 of those: Falcon, Akimbo Jacket's Piece, Bootleg. Micro-Uzi is the king of concealed SMGs but the Mark 10 or Kobus 90 work great if you're willing to take a Clarion primary.

Pistols - 5-7 is the only secondary pistol worth using in the game at the moment. Usable fire rate, favorable gimmick, high damage. Akimbo Bernettis, Akimbo Crosskill Guards, or Akimbo Stryks for the primary. I have a lot more pistol opinions but I've said enough for now.

# ? Jan 19, 2019 22:00

UnknownMercenary: Nov 1, 2011; I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD

The only pistols you need are akimbo Castigos with the single fire akimbo mod so you can basically play them as DMRs post-DMR nerf.

# ? Jan 19, 2019 23:35

YET ANOTHER FAG: Mar 6, 2003; by R. Guyovich

I'll stick to vanilla PD2, thanks.

# ? Jan 20, 2019 00:24

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

ClonedPickle posted:

If you do this, I'd recommend re-branding the 5-7 into a low-damage armor piercing gun. It's a gimmick gun with a useful gimmick, and I'd like to see it remain a unique sidearm. Also, in other pistolchat, please dear god buff the fire rate of every pistol, or at least every akimbo pistol. There's currently only a few usable pistols and I'm saying that entirely because their throttled fire rate is anti-fun and if it's not fun I'm not gonna use it! Also, throw the fire rate buff skill into the sun.

Sure, I can make the 5-7 into a low-damage AP for something unique. As for Fire Rate boosts though, Payday 2 can get really finicky about them. The best I can offer you is baking in the Fire Rate boost from Fugitive, because we know it's an effect the engine won't try to turn itself inside out over.

quote:

Don't. Movement penalties are inherently unfun. I'd understand if the miniguns got one (and would continue to not use them), but don't do it to LMGs.

agreed

quote:

Good. I don't know how this was thrown onto the pile of low-damage, high-ammo SMGs at a time when the only high-damage ones were the Krinkov and the CR-805b. Oh, hey, while you're at it, give the Valkyria the same treatment: turn it into a high-damage/low-ammo gun. Its low mag size sucks for the low-damage/high-ammo role.

Because Jules is a hellfucker. The Patchett is going to be rebranded into a high-damage, low fire-rate SMG.

quote:

This just sounds like it's going to end poorly. Sorry for the vote of no confidence, but tying top-end skills to perk decks sounds like a deathblow to build diversity. I'd rather see lovely skills and decks buffed to the point of being viable alternatives to the bog standard, but it's not my mod.

One of the main reasons why Payday 2's balance is such a loving mess is because current setup of Skill Trees/Perk Decks allows the player to access too many powerful abilities. My build is a great example: I have Overkill Aced, Iron Man basic, Sneaky Bastard basic (with full dodge chance because my concealment is low enough), Low Blow (also full crit chance), Berserker, Frenzy, Anarchist. I deal ~175% of my normal damage on normal shots because of Frenzerker, plus 80% after I kill something (which is always because the game is massively overcrowded), and I've got a 15% chance to deal whatever the order of the day is for the target enemy's headshot multiplier. Sometimes it's 2x so my ~255% becomes 510% of normal damage, sometimes it's 18x and I hit something with 4590% damage. And that's not counting if I get a headshot crit, which either doubles the multiplier or just multiplies the bonus again - I don't remember which and I don't think it matters because either way I'm either getting really close to 10,000% or bypassing it and either is a good indication that something is wrong. I also have over 200 armor in a suit, 25% damage reduction, a 15% dodge chance, and I rarely (if ever) drop below 80% of my Armor because Anarchist generates Armor like trees make air.

And I have enough points left over to pick up Drill Efficiency skills as an afterthought.

The worst part is I don't even have to go the Meme Machine Party Cannon build. I could very easily dip into something more flexible, like picking up Joker or Inspire, while continuing to maintain massive amounts of personal offensive and defensive strength. I stick with the Meme Machine Party Cannon because taking advantage of the rest of the system just doesn't seem fair.

I don't know if shifting all of the build power into Perk Decks specifically is the correct answer, but for the time being it's definitely the better option for build sanitation. I haven't taken the time to design any alternatives because I've been busy with weapons so maybe I'll come up with something drastically better in the meantime.

Edit: Like five minutes after posting this we had a big discussion about it. It's safe to assume that we're either holding off on switching the prominence of Skill Trees/Perk Decks or doing something else entirely.

quote:

I've spent a lot of time in the inventory theorycrafting gun loadouts for low concealment builds, so here's what I've found to be the best in my opinion:

Izhma / HE Judge ex-prez build - suit, shotgun skills. Izhma is crazy ammo efficient (I'm not saying nerf it, fyi) to make up for the Judge. Judge is utility for shields, dozer faces, Swan Song, or to break your armor in a safe corner to make ex-prez do its thing.

Funny you should mention these 'cause Izhma/HE Judge is the exact setup I use in my build.

quote:

Pistols - 5-7 is the only secondary pistol worth using in the game at the moment. Usable fire rate, favorable gimmick, high damage. Akimbo Bernettis, Akimbo Crosskill Guards, or Akimbo Stryks for the primary. I have a lot more pistol opinions but I've said enough for now.

Come talk to me on Discord and tell me your pistol opinions. I would love to hear them.

Kith fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Jan 20, 2019

# ? Jan 20, 2019 01:37

Mendrian: Jan 6, 2013

I mean any careful examination of a granular talent system is eventually going to arrive at the conclusion that very few of them actually matter - that you will look at the whole and go, okay, so, Aced Inspire is really noticeable and powerful if I have it and on the other hand +50% stability while aiming down sights is probably not noticeable without considerable practice and experimentation.

I can sort of see the logic of sticking these powerful, noticeable abilities onto Perk Decks but the issue becomes this: you aren't actually allowing any sort of customization. So now I'm choosing Aced Inspire at the expense of say, Fatman Armor (or something equivalent) rather than mixing a handful of powerful abilities.

What 'needs' to happen is that someone should go through the skills and fold or eliminate weak-feeling skills and reduce the total number of points people get - picking 2-3 game-defining abilities is much more interesting than trying to climb through a bunch of useless dross to get there. I'm not sure there are enough game-defining skills to pair with all the perk trees and I'm not sure having just one game-defining skill is fun. If you get the weapons to a place where they need to be you can basically eliminate all of the QoL gun skills because you shouldn't have to stack weapon skills to get kills with a shotgun, so that'll save you a lot of time right there.

Heck, I don't think any skills should buff damage, period. There, I said it.

# ? Jan 20, 2019 05:25

Kikas: Oct 30, 2012

Mendrian posted:

I mean any careful examination of a granular talent system is eventually going to arrive at the conclusion that very few of them actually matter - that you will look at the whole and go, okay, so, Aced Inspire is really noticeable and powerful if I have it and on the other hand +50% stability while aiming down sights is probably not noticeable without considerable practice and experimentation.

I can sort of see the logic of sticking these powerful, noticeable abilities onto Perk Decks but the issue becomes this: you aren't actually allowing any sort of customization. So now I'm choosing Aced Inspire at the expense of say, Fatman Armor (or something equivalent) rather than mixing a handful of powerful abilities.

What 'needs' to happen is that someone should go through the skills and fold or eliminate weak-feeling skills and reduce the total number of points people get - picking 2-3 game-defining abilities is much more interesting than trying to climb through a bunch of useless dross to get there. I'm not sure there are enough game-defining skills to pair with all the perk trees and I'm not sure having just one game-defining skill is fun. If you get the weapons to a place where they need to be you can basically eliminate all of the QoL gun skills because you shouldn't have to stack weapon skills to get kills with a shotgun, so that'll save you a lot of time right there.

Heck, I don't think any skills should buff damage, period. There, I said it.

I think that skills that increase melee or saw damage are fine, but gun damage yeah keep it to the guns. However I think that those "useless" skills should become some sort of gimmick or a fun way to spice up the gameplay on the way up to the big boys. Like the extra deployable slot you now have when speccing into sentries, or shield melee knockback when climbing to the ICTV. Both those are kinda low-impact but they contribute to the game and make the experience more fun. Heck they even make niche stuff like C4 usable.
More of those.

# ? Jan 20, 2019 06:48

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

A big limitation we have is that unless we want to make people create a separate entire savefile and do some incredibly hinky stuff with restarting the game, we cannot safely change the structure or number of skills in the trees, nor the number of skill points. Otherwise we're flirting with save file corruption.

Based on this feedback we're definitely walking things back and taking stock of what we can and can't (and should and shouldn't) do.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Jan 20, 2019

# ? Jan 20, 2019 07:29

Mendrian: Jan 6, 2013

Discendo Vox posted:

A big limitation we have is that unless we want to make people create a separate entire savefile and do some incredibly hinky stuff with restarting the game, we cannot safely change the structure or number of skills in the trees, nor the number of skill points. Otherwise we're flirting with save file corruption.

Based on this feedback we're definitely walking things back and taking stock of what we can and can't (and should and shouldn't) do.

Don't take it the wrong way, I like the ambition, and the idea is probably worth testing and iterating on if nothing else. Armchair game is every goon's expertise but play experience may shake out differently.

# ? Jan 22, 2019 20:16

bbcisdabomb: Jan 15, 2008; SHEESH

It took me until last night to get my friends all the achievements needed for the secret ending. I have to say that it was worth the effort, but The codewheel was not really fun to use. Twice I went one pull too far and whoops, guess we're spending another two minutes pulling this lever while shooting at these cool-looking but not terribly threatening cloaker ghosts. The actual riddles were kinda bullshit too. The first riddle was the one about "I bring the real gifts" and we were both pretty disappointed when the answer wasn't SANTA.

Now I'm going to have to pick up OTWD, I think.

# ? Jan 22, 2019 20:29

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

bbcisdabomb posted:

It took me until last night to get my friends all the achievements needed for the secret ending. I have to say that it was worth the effort, but The codewheel was not really fun to use. Twice I went one pull too far and whoops, guess we're spending another two minutes pulling this lever while shooting at these cool-looking but not terribly threatening cloaker ghosts. The actual riddles were kinda bullshit too. The first riddle was the one about "I bring the real gifts" and we were both pretty disappointed when the answer wasn't SANTA.

Now I'm going to have to pick up OTWD, I think.

They're references from all over the place; some come from mythology, some are oblique references to the Guide of Bain, the rest from the game itself. That one I believe is answered in the safehouse.

# ? Jan 23, 2019 00:03

swims: May 5, 2014; Waiter, this band keeps shooting pearls at me.

Do not adjust the mac 10 in your update

Or the G3 assault or queens wrath or gecko

With that said buff the JP

Also I'm on console

# ? Jan 23, 2019 08:45

bbcisdabomb: Jan 15, 2008; SHEESH

maswastaken posted:

They're references from all over the place; some come from mythology, some are oblique references to the Guide of Bain, the rest from the game itself. That one I believe is answered in the safehouse.

I followed along with enough of the lore that the answers made sense once I looked them up, I'm just poo poo at puzzles.

I still feel like I had the right answer :colbert:

# ? Jan 23, 2019 18:09

maswastaken: Nov 12, 2011

bbcisdabomb posted:

I followed along with enough of the lore that the answers made sense once I looked them up, I'm just poo poo at puzzles.

Please explain DANCE to me

# ? Jan 23, 2019 18:26

EorayMel: May 30, 2015; WE GET IT. YOU LOVE GUN JESUS. Toujours des fusils Bullpup Fran�ais.

maswastaken posted:

Please explain DANCE to me

That's an easy one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdXRqi1uyWw

# ? Jan 23, 2019 18:28

HebrewMagic: Jul 19, 2012; Police Assault In Progress

Let me know when this supermod is beyond fixing things and we're adding new characters, it's time for Kane and Lynch to finally join the family

Joking aside did custom levels ever really go anywhere? I saw a few folks messing with ideas but most everything I saw was "here's FWB but with way worse textures".

# ? Jan 28, 2019 00:19

Iamgoofball: Jul 1, 2015

HebrewMagic posted:

Let me know when this supermod is beyond fixing things and we're adding new characters, it's time for Kane and Lynch to finally join the family

Joking aside did custom levels ever really go anywhere? I saw a few folks messing with ideas but most everything I saw was "here's FWB but with way worse textures".

Custom levels are a very big thing, and custom character support is also a thing that can be done. Model Tools are just heavily limiting us.

# ? Jan 28, 2019 02:37

EorayMel: May 30, 2015; WE GET IT. YOU LOVE GUN JESUS. Toujours des fusils Bullpup Fran�ais.

So I did a shitpost heist of doing four stores one down loud via armor builds with a random 1 infamy level 90, a 0 infamy level 90, and a 7 infamy level 100 with an OD mask (that he probably hacked)

We got lucky and found one of the big safes, holed up there and waited for it to open to hit the 15k quota. The van escape was also right around the corner, so 3 of us piled into the van. But the 7 infamy dude went out by himself to try to restart two drills on the other side of the street, futilely trying to clear out one of the stores with a non-graze Thanatos with a medic dozer thrown into the mix

He went down twice, nasally called us trash over his quiet microphone, then ragequit as we stayed behind and cracked corny jokes at one another in the chat, finishing the heist.

:confused:

# ? Jan 28, 2019 05:31

Basticle: Sep 12, 2011

just loving lol https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-01-28-the-fall-of-swedish-game-wonder-starbreeze

# ? Jan 28, 2019 16:15

Crabtree: Oct 17, 2012; ARRRGH! Get that wallet out!
Everybody: Lowtax in a Pickle!
Pickle! Pickle! Pickle! Pickle!; Dinosaur Gum

quote:

"If you go to any studio now, there is always a good hope at least 50 per cent of the people know the engine they're working on, so they can coach the rest," said one person who was at the coal face. "But in this case, it felt like just 10 per cent of the people understood the engine. 90 per cent of people were just relying on that 10 per cent, or checking online. So we were using tutorials to try and make a game. That was bad."

Jesus loving Christ, and they advertised this the first year anniversary. No wonder it's a piece of poo poo.

# ? Jan 28, 2019 17:23

bbcisdabomb: Jan 15, 2008; SHEESH

Hey that Storm game looks cool! Payday In Space could do some really fun stuff like raiding bigger ships, exploring derelicts, maybe have some on-planet adventures for some variety, let's watch the trailer!

Wait, headstrap technology? VR with "floor tracking" technology? "Competitive Online Esport Shooter"?
:yikes:

Just do a Payday 3 already, people will buy it.

# ? Jan 28, 2019 17:55

Crabtree: Oct 17, 2012; ARRRGH! Get that wallet out!
Everybody: Lowtax in a Pickle!
Pickle! Pickle! Pickle! Pickle!; Dinosaur Gum

Bo can't stop committing financial fruad and green-lighting bad ideas.

# ? Jan 28, 2019 18:55

chairface: Oct 28, 2007; No matter what you believe, I don't believe in you.

Crabtree posted:

Bo can't stop committing financial fruad and green-lighting bad ideas.

To be fair it appears one of his lenders (may have) committed financial fraud, whereas he's just an idiot who bet on VR, bought a lemon of an engine, engaged in nepotism and made terrible business decisions.

# ? Jan 28, 2019 18:59

spit on my clit: Jul 19, 2015; by Cyrano4747

bbcisdabomb posted:

"Competitive Online Esport Shooter"?

STOP! loving STOP

# ? Jan 28, 2019 19:23

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

spit on my clit posted:

bbcisdabomb posted:
"Competitive Online Esport Shooter"?
STOP! loving STOP

I find it really loving funny that these execs are so full of themselves think they can release a game that will immediately have this status. I mean thats a good long term goal but first you have to make a good game that works lmao

# ? Jan 28, 2019 19:32

bbcisdabomb: Jan 15, 2008; SHEESH

spit on my clit posted:

STOP! loving STOP

Why does the leader of Overkill, makers of one of the most successful PvE games this decade, want to make a competitive PvP esport? Everything about it makes me sad.

You make really good PvE games, guys! Make more!

# ? Jan 28, 2019 19:35

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

I wonder if 10 Chambers will buy the Payday IP and make Payday 3.

Actually no, I hope they buy the IP then reboot it and kick the crazy stupid storyline to the curb and go back to robbin banks.

bbcisdabomb posted:

Why does the leader of Overkill, makers of one of the most successful PvE games this decade, want to make a competitive PvP esport? Everything about it makes me sad.

You make really good PvE games, guys! Make more!

Nah, been there, done that.

# ? Jan 28, 2019 19:41

chairface: Oct 28, 2007; No matter what you believe, I don't believe in you.

spit on my clit posted:

STOP! loving STOP

Hey he's updated his buzzwords enough to remove "VR" at this point. Dude's suit is wearing him.

# ? Jan 28, 2019 19:46

Crabtree: Oct 17, 2012; ARRRGH! Get that wallet out!
Everybody: Lowtax in a Pickle!
Pickle! Pickle! Pickle! Pickle!; Dinosaur Gum

I am okay with crazy stupid storylines in so far as it doesn't stop us from robing banks in a variety of ways. I don't mind if we're a dumb action movie so long as its fun.

# ? Jan 28, 2019 20:08

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 30, 2024 20:00

UnknownMercenary: Nov 1, 2011; I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD

bbcisdabomb posted:

Why does the leader of Overkill, makers of one of the most successful PvE games this decade, want to make a competitive PvP esport? Everything about it makes me sad.

You make really good PvE games, guys! Make more!

Considering how their last two PvE games flopped hard enough to sink the company, maybe they should've tried something different instead of directly competing with themselves.

# ? Jan 28, 2019 20:38

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Payday 3: We've Been Robbed

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