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Hoodwinker
Nov 7, 2005

SlapActionJackson posted:

Actually, you can. The IRS only considers timeliness of withholding for quarterly payments. I used to play that game when interest rates made it worthwhile.
If you withhold with 99 allowances for the first half of the year how can you make your first two quarterly payments :thunk:

Unless you were making your own estimated quarterly tax payments.

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SlapActionJackson
Jul 27, 2006

Hoodwinker posted:

If you withhold with 99 allowances for the first half of the year how can you make your first two quarterly payments :thunk:

Unless you were making your own estimated quarterly tax payments.

The secret is to not make quarterly payments at all.

If you make Quarterly Estimated payments, (i.e. you mail a check to the IRS), then they will care about timeliness and evenness of the payments across the full year.

But if you satisfy the PAYGO requirements via withholding (i.e. your employer mails a check to the IRS), then they do not care about evenness of the withholding. Specifically, form 2210 makes it clear that if you hit the 90%, 100%, or 110% payment safe harbors with your withheld amount then you don't owe an underpayment penalty, even if that withholding came in a single lump sum in December.

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...
broad question I know, but about how long does it take to build credit score? Apparently mine was better than I thought it was because it just got downgraded to 700. Admittedly I wasn't always paying cards on time but if I want to get it back up to 800 assuming ideal circumstances, how long should that take?

Hoodwinker
Nov 7, 2005

SlapActionJackson posted:

The secret is to not make quarterly payments at all.

If you make Quarterly Estimated payments, (i.e. you mail a check to the IRS), then they will care about timeliness and evenness of the payments across the full year.

But if you satisfy the PAYGO requirements via withholding (i.e. your employer mails a check to the IRS), then they do not care about evenness of the withholding. Specifically, form 2210 makes it clear that if you hit the 90%, 100%, or 110% payment safe harbors with your withheld amount then you don't owe an underpayment penalty, even if that withholding came in a single lump sum in December.
That's good info. I had always assumed from what I read that you had to satisfy the timeliness portion and that the employer withholding just sort of automatically took care of that by virtue of being consistently applied.

Fezziwig
Jun 7, 2011

Alan Smithee posted:

broad question I know, but about how long does it take to build credit score? Apparently mine was better than I thought it was because it just got downgraded to 700. Admittedly I wasn't always paying cards on time but if I want to get it back up to 800 assuming ideal circumstances, how long should that take?

Are you planning on taking out a loan soon? If not, don't worry about it.

If you are, and if you have a history of on time payments, try calling the card companies and asking for a one-time forgiveness. They may grant it and it will be removed from your report.

Goobish
May 31, 2011

Is it normal for your credit to take a small hit when obtaining a new card? Or did I not wait long enough between applications? Was denied one in November, but just was approved for one the other day. But my credit went down some?

And is it true that "pre-approved" cards don't do the hard inquiry? Read that somewhere.

I'm just in a weird place where my suggestion is to have more open accounts to build credit. Otherwise I wouldn't care. I'm not sure what other accounts to open besides cards. My car is paid off, the house is not technically under my name yet and when it is, it will also be paid off.

Fezziwig
Jun 7, 2011

Goobish posted:

Is it normal for your credit to take a small hit when obtaining a new card? Or did I not wait long enough between applications? Was denied one in November, but just was approved for one the other day. But my credit went down some?

And is it true that "pre-approved" cards don't do the hard inquiry? Read that somewhere.

I'm just in a weird place where my suggestion is to have more open accounts to build credit. Otherwise I wouldn't care. I'm not sure what other accounts to open besides cards. My car is paid off, the house is not technically under my name yet and when it is, it will also be paid off.

Opening a new account will result in a small drop off your score because they perform a hard inquiry, and because the average age of your accounts decreases slightly.

If you aren't getting a new loan soon, don't worry about your credit score. Just continue to pay your bills on time and in full and you'll be fine.

Goobish
May 31, 2011

Well I would like to take out a home repair loan. Maybe in a couple years if at all possible. That is the reason I started caring. Have a good 15 or 20k in repairs that should be done somewhat sooner than later.

Fezziwig
Jun 7, 2011
You should be fine then. Just be sure to keep everything paid on time and it should bounce back in a few months.

Reallycoolname
Feb 26, 2008

Take a look! It's in a book!
Hi guys, just transited into full-time work and I wanted to make sure my financial plans are in order; I'm from Singapore but I thiiiink the general gist of things should be the same?

Income:
$4400 gross monthly as a junior developer, not including (variable) bonuses
20% of that goes into my CPF account (kinda like a 401K?) and my employer must match a further 17% of my salary
So that leaves about $3500 a month of available cash

Debt:
$9200 study loan @ 4.25% annual interest, but accumulation is frozen until I graduate... which I have not technically done yet, since on paper I'm actually still on my internship as far as my university is concerned (it is also my last and only course left before I graduate - I'll be done in April). I'm not sure how the bank sees this and their helpline is a bit vague which has me worried slightly.

Expenses:
$40 - Cell / data bill
$120 - Concession pass for transport
$150 - Entertainment (games and such), but it varies depending on what comes out
$150 - Clothes / health products like face cream. Again, varies.
$700 - Food (Yes, I know - I've started cooking lately, this should come down hard)
Total: $1160~ or so.

So I can put about two-thirds of my monthly income towards savings / debt, which I intend to do. Insurance is covered by my employer (medical / dental) but I'm wondering if there's a benefit to getting my own and I live with my parents.

The Plan:
1. Accumulate enough money to immediately squash the debt once I (actually) graduate
2. Build my emergency fund (I'm single and 29 so this'll be fairly small to start, maybe 2 months of salary tops?)
3a. Start contributing additional funds to my CPF and use the money in there to invest in government bonds or an index fund (not sure what the Singapore equivalent is for Vanguard's - I'll be doing my research well before this step)
3b. Put the rest into my savings account (I'm under DBS and opened up this account recently - think I should qualify for the 1.85% p.a. bracket at least, and the rates apply up to the first $50K in the account)
3c. Give some to my parents... maybe $400 or so monthly as rent? The culture here is different but still mooching is mooching.

I do want to save for my own home at some point but that is at least half a decade off I think.

Anything I missed / screwed up on? Much appreciated.

Side note: William Bernstein's If You Can was a godsend, I was far less concerned with my finances before I discovered it.

DNK
Sep 18, 2004

Make sure to include living expenses (rent + utilities). If you’re living with family, working, and not looking to move, I suggest contributing towards rental costs.

If you’re looking to move, budget / save for that.

e: fully read the bottom of your post and yeah, good on you. Definitely pay them something.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
Your plan overall seems good - except 4.25% is a pretty low interest rate these days so I would not be in such a hurry to immediately pay down the debt unless there's some tremendous psychological boost to doing so. I am generally pretty debt averse, too.

Budget seems fairly lean - you are already aware of the food, of course, but it also appears that you might be spending $1,800/year on games. Does entertainment include other entertainment (going to the bar with friends, etc)? If so no issues from me, but if you have an $1,800/year vidja game habit that's pretty spendy.

Reallycoolname
Feb 26, 2008

Take a look! It's in a book!

DNK posted:

Make sure to include living expenses (rent + utilities). If you’re living with family, working, and not looking to move, I suggest contributing towards rental costs.

If you’re looking to move, budget / save for that.

e: fully read the bottom of your post and yeah, good on you. Definitely pay them something.

Yeah, right now my entire living expenses is basically covered under my family - hell, me paying my own phone bills is a recent thing. That'll change eventually.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

Your plan overall seems good - except 4.25% is a pretty low interest rate these days so I would not be in such a hurry to immediately pay down the debt unless there's some tremendous psychological boost to doing so. I am generally pretty debt averse, too.

Budget seems fairly lean - you are already aware of the food, of course, but it also appears that you might be spending $1,800/year on games. Does entertainment include other entertainment (going to the bar with friends, etc)? If so no issues from me, but if you have an $1,800/year vidja game habit that's pretty spendy.

4.25% is low? Huh. Would it be more worthwhile to invest it in something?

And yep - entertainment is basically my category for "this is money for me to be irresponsible with". Speaking of which, I would like to take a vacation overseas sometimes this year (hey, gotta live it up a *little* after graduating) but I'd rather do it guilt-free, so I'll probably clear the debt first.

Moneyball
Jul 11, 2005

It's a problem you think we need to explain ourselves.
Does it ever make sense to pay a balance transfer fee? I know we're anti-fees here.

I went through kind of a rough patch and came out of a period of unemployment with ~9k of debt across a few cards, all at 0% APR

I'm employed now but still have about $5k left after paying off a chunk of it. That's going to start accruing interest fairly soon and my job is not yet 100% secure.

I'll be in a much better position in a few months, provided I stay employed, but in the meantime, do I build up some savings, or keep throwing it at the CC balance?

I can't use a Chase Slate, but I did find a 2% fee card. So as much as it sucks, I'm considering eating the $100 fee and making sure I have an emergency fund. Then I'll pay it off normally.

Also, if I do that, can I transfer from two cards without the second transfer being subject to interest until I pay off the first, or is that only purchases?

BEHOLD: MY CAPE
Jan 11, 2004
In general they suck but you could make a strong argument for paying 2% interest for 12 months in order to preserve a substantial emergency fund. The emergency fund should also be in an interest yielding savings account which should gather you 2%+ interest as well (although that is taxable it still cuts the net price of the balance transfer substantially). Another option would be to open a 0% APR card and run up living expenses on that as a means of preserving cash.

Edit: you will have to read the very fine print of the terms but usually the terms are something like all balance transfers performed within the first 60 days of card opening are subject to the promotional rate. Typically you can execute a balance transfer with a balance transfer check or directly with the credit card number.

Ham Equity
Apr 16, 2013

The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.
Grimey Drawer

Murderball posted:

Does it ever make sense to pay a balance transfer fee? I know we're anti-fees here.

I went through kind of a rough patch and came out of a period of unemployment with ~9k of debt across a few cards, all at 0% APR

I'm employed now but still have about $5k left after paying off a chunk of it. That's going to start accruing interest fairly soon and my job is not yet 100% secure.

I'll be in a much better position in a few months, provided I stay employed, but in the meantime, do I build up some savings, or keep throwing it at the CC balance?

I can't use a Chase Slate, but I did find a 2% fee card. So as much as it sucks, I'm considering eating the $100 fee and making sure I have an emergency fund. Then I'll pay it off normally.

Also, if I do that, can I transfer from two cards without the second transfer being subject to interest until I pay off the first, or is that only purchases?
You can absolutely transfer balance from card to card to card (or from multiple cards to one card), and keep maintaining whatever promotional interest rate on balance transfers they offer you (usually 0% for 12-18 months for 3-4 balance transfers, but definitely read over the specifics of the offer you're taking advantage of). During a couple of periods of unemployment, I totally did this. If you're going to rack up more in interest on the balance than you pay with the balance transfer fee and promotional rate, you should totally do the transfer.

As you seem to understand, this isn't a good idea long-term.

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW

Murderball posted:

Does it ever make sense to pay a balance transfer fee? I know we're anti-fees here.

I went through kind of a rough patch and came out of a period of unemployment with ~9k of debt across a few cards, all at 0% APR

I'm employed now but still have about $5k left after paying off a chunk of it. That's going to start accruing interest fairly soon and my job is not yet 100% secure.

I'll be in a much better position in a few months, provided I stay employed, but in the meantime, do I build up some savings, or keep throwing it at the CC balance?

I can't use a Chase Slate, but I did find a 2% fee card. So as much as it sucks, I'm considering eating the $100 fee and making sure I have an emergency fund. Then I'll pay it off normally.

Also, if I do that, can I transfer from two cards without the second transfer being subject to interest until I pay off the first, or is that only purchases?

Most credit cards will be charging about $90/month so a $100 fee for a year is a no brained. Most cards will say you have 30-60 days for balance transfers so you can do multiple ones. Just make sure you don’t use the cards for normal charges as they will instantly accrue interest.

Moneyball
Jul 11, 2005

It's a problem you think we need to explain ourselves.

BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:

Another option would be to open a 0% APR card and run up living expenses on that as a means of preserving cash.

Thanatosian posted:

During a couple of periods of unemployment, I totally did this.

Yeah this is how all the balances got up to 9k. I paid as little cash as possible. Pretty much only rent, random things I needed to have cash for, and minimum payments. Everything was 0%, so it made sense at the time.

Harry posted:

Most credit cards will be charging about $90/month so a $100 fee for a year is a no brained. Most cards will say you have 30-60 days for balance transfers so you can do multiple ones. Just make sure you don’t use the cards for normal charges as they will instantly accrue interest.

I did mess up and miss that one of them started charging for interest and finally got hit with $90 charged after successfully avoiding any for as long as I've had credit cards.
I think I'll look in to it this weekend. $100 or so sucks to pay, but I can pay the balances off a few hundred at a time instead of being broke for the next few months.

gregday
May 23, 2003

Sweet, Ally went to 2.2% today.

JIZZ DENOUEMENT
Oct 3, 2012

STRIKE!
Okay I know this is super generic but I was doing some back of the napkin man and I’m pretty sure I’m hosed for retirement.

I’m in my early 30s making $65k. I contribute to my retirement at 7% and employer matches 4%.

That’s still jack poo poo over ~30 years assuming an annual return of 7%

Like, even if I made $100k and did the same percentages it wouldn’t be enough.

And I don’t have a house to build equity.

I need to figure out how to afford max Roth contributions and even then I’m just barely getting close.

Holy gently caress poo poo sucks.

Guess I actually do need business school or a programming boot camp.

Or just have a retirement plan of a stiff drink and a 9 millimeter with 1 bullet.

Hoodwinker
Nov 7, 2005

JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:

Okay I know this is super generic but I was doing some back of the napkin man and I’m pretty sure I’m hosed for retirement.

I’m in my early 30s making $65k. I contribute to my retirement at 7% and employer matches 4%.

That’s still jack poo poo over ~30 years assuming an annual return of 7%

Like, even if I made $100k and did the same percentages it wouldn’t be enough.

And I don’t have a house to build equity.

I need to figure out how to afford max Roth contributions and even then I’m just barely getting close.

Holy gently caress poo poo sucks.

Guess I actually do need business school or a programming boot camp.

Or just have a retirement plan of a stiff drink and a 9 millimeter with 1 bullet.

I plugged in 11% of $65k into a compound interest calculator at 7% over 30 years and it popped out $777k, which is inflation-adjusted, so that's equivalent to today's dollars. That's assuming no raises beyond keeping up with inflation. Supplement that with social security and you're looking at the equivalent of having at least like $1.5m worth of assets to draw from. In what way are you hosed exactly? If you're living on $65k a gross now, you're fine dude.

JIZZ DENOUEMENT
Oct 3, 2012

STRIKE!
Nm

JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Feb 12, 2019

Hoodwinker
Nov 7, 2005

JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:

My home and all my family is in one of the most expensive places in America.
Are you in debt? You're putting away 11% on $65k. That's better than most of America. If you're living on $40k of expenses now, that doesn't need to change in retirement.

JIZZ DENOUEMENT
Oct 3, 2012

STRIKE!
I totally realize I’m blessed and privileged to be doing better than most Americans. But that doesn’t mean I’m doing well, it means many Americans are in trouble.

Hoodwinker
Nov 7, 2005

JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:

I totally realize I’m blessed and privileged to be doing better than most Americans. But that doesn’t mean I’m doing well, it means many Americans are in trouble.
Sure, but that doesn't really answer my question: if you're living on ~$40,000 worth of expenses right now, and you'll have enough between retirement savings assuming nothing changes in your current earnings potential and you continue to put the same amount away (which I bring up because it's unlikely you'll continue earning the same rate forever), where exactly is the "I'm hosed!" coming from. You're living on that amount now. If you live in the most expensive place in America, you're living on $40,000, and you're not in debt, then the first part doesn't matter. Help me see it, because I'm not. Sure, earning/saving more would be rad as heck, but I think it's a bit premature based on your numbers to declare a serious problem.

Ham Equity
Apr 16, 2013

The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.
Grimey Drawer

JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:

My home and all my family is in one of the most expensive places in America. The cost of living rate growth is exceeding my savings and income growth. If I don’t own a piece of property in the next few years I will effectively never be able to. And I will be unable to live in my home at retirement.

Translators note: “home” means community, the poster does not own property.

You're assuming housing costs and your income will continue to go up at the same rate they are now. These things rarely work out linearly.

dpkg chopra
Jun 9, 2007

Fast Food Fight

Grimey Drawer
Also, if you’re from a privileged background you’re presumably inheriting a substantial amount.

Now if what you’re saying is that you want to afford your upscale lifestyle without depending on your inheritance, the yeah, you might need more income.

Saying you’re “hosed” for retirement is absolutely dependent on what you expect from retirement.

JIZZ DENOUEMENT
Oct 3, 2012

STRIKE!
^by privileged I mean a straight white male with a college degree and no major health issues. Not that I’m the heir to a steel magnate.

I don’t have an upscale life. I don’t take destination vacations because I can’t afford them, I don’t really eat out, and most of my shopping is at Costco.

Although with Kirkland Signature, you get quantity AND quality, so that is kind of upscale.

Thanatosian posted:

You're assuming housing costs and your income will continue to go up at the same rate they are now. These things rarely work out linearly.

I’m assuming Seattle housing costs will on average increase faster than my income. Specifically at the point of retirement. And as housing increases my ability to contribute as much to retirement savings will shrink.


But yeah overall I guess I’m not turbofucked.

Thanks for the perspective everyone.

JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Jan 20, 2019

Fhqwhgads
Jul 18, 2003

I AM THE ONLY ONE IN THIS GAME WHO GETS LAID
For perspective I make more than twice what you do but I live in NYC and even though I have a substantial 401k and no real debt I still feel like I will never be able to retire. I've given up thinking I'll ever own property if I stay here either.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

You guys can move to cheaper areas to retire, lots of people do that

BigDave
Jul 14, 2009

Taste the High Country
How big of a hit would a credit score take if I canceled a bunch of credit card I don't use?

I have a Amex and a Best Buy card I haven't used in...ever, as far as I know, and I can't think of a reason to keep them.

I also have a Discover, another Amex, and a Citi card that I do use monthly on incidentals (Netflix, pizza, etc), but again, I don't really have a reason to keep them.

The only card I really want to keep is my Amazon Prime Visa, but I can use that for virtually everything.

Any reason to keep any of these card around? The Best Buy card I've had for almost 10 years, all the others for 3 years or less.

zaurg
Mar 1, 2004
JIZZ DENOUEMENT how much do you have in retirement funds now?

Ham Equity
Apr 16, 2013

The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.
Grimey Drawer

JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:

^by privileged I mean a straight white male with a college degree and no major health issues. Not that I’m the heir to a steel magnate.

I don’t have an upscale life. I don’t take destination vacations because I can’t afford them, I don’t really eat out, and most of my shopping is at Costco.

Although with Kirkland Signature, you get quantity AND quality, so that is kind of upscale.


I’m assuming Seattle housing costs will on average increase faster than my income. Specifically at the point of retirement. And as housing increases my ability to contribute as much to retirement savings will shrink.


But yeah overall I guess I’m not turbofucked.

Thanks for the perspective everyone.

I live in Seattle too, and for what it's worth (which is to say, not much), I think we're in a housing bubble. But you're relatively young, and a lot of things can change just in the next five years, to say nothing of the next thirty. Moving in with a mildly financially responsible partner can help a ton. Having kids probably hurts a bunch.

How long have you been at your current job? If your answer is longer than two and a half years or so, it's time to start looking at job ads, you should probably be making more money.

If it makes you feel any better, you're younger than me and making/saving more money, living in the same area (my rent is probably better than yours, though).

Moneyball
Jul 11, 2005

It's a problem you think we need to explain ourselves.

zaurg posted:

JIZZ DENOUEMENT how much do you have in retirement funds now?

One million rats

SpelledBackwards
Jan 7, 2001

I found this image on the Internet, perhaps you've heard of it? It's been around for a while I hear.

JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:

I was doing some back of the napkin man and I’m pretty sure I’m hosed

Only if you two switched places at some point. :gay:

zaurg
Mar 1, 2004

Murderball posted:

One million rats

Good luck on the cc debt attack

I say, throw everything you have to knock out the cc debt asap. Don't waste money on balance transfer fees and cc interest. Hope your job is secure and slowly re-build emergency fund. If you lose the job, do the credit card debt thing all over again if needed (basically use credit cards as your emergency fund).

That's my 2cents, so you know, probably do the opposite and you'll be fine.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web

JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:

I’m assuming Seattle housing costs will on average increase faster than my income. Specifically at the point of retirement. And as housing increases my ability to contribute as much to retirement savings will shrink.
So you buy a cheaper place a couple hours outside of Seattle and drive in to visit your grandkids if they stay there (they won't, your kids will move somewhere else probably, maybe it'll be cheaper and you can move near them). You don't have to commute anywhere once you're retired. You can downsize to a smaller apartment if you really want to stay near the city when you retire.

BigDave posted:

How big of a hit would a credit score take if I canceled a bunch of credit card I don't use?

I have a Amex and a Best Buy card I haven't used in...ever, as far as I know, and I can't think of a reason to keep them.

I also have a Discover, another Amex, and a Citi card that I do use monthly on incidentals (Netflix, pizza, etc), but again, I don't really have a reason to keep them.

The only card I really want to keep is my Amazon Prime Visa, but I can use that for virtually everything.

Any reason to keep any of these card around? The Best Buy card I've had for almost 10 years, all the others for 3 years or less.
Why are you in a hurry to get rid of credit you might need? Just set a monthly subscription on each of them and set them to autopay, then cut up the card and never do anything with them again. Age of credit is a big one for your credit score. Or just throw them away and see if they stay open on their own if you don't care.

SpelledBackwards
Jan 7, 2001

I found this image on the Internet, perhaps you've heard of it? It's been around for a while I hear.

moana posted:

Why are you in a hurry to get rid of credit you might need? Just set a monthly subscription on each of them and set them to autopay, then cut up the card and never do anything with them again. Age of credit is a big one for your credit score. Or just throw them away and see if they stay open on their own if you don't care.

That's the other question of what the poster needs a good score for in the near term, such as an expected application for a home/car/horse loan.

But to play the other side, having more credit cards open is more potential for fraud and identity theft if you don't stay on top of their activity and notice odd events. I have all mine connected up in Mint for this reason, but if you don't feel like taking the middle ground there, a seldom- or never-used cars is safer closed than completely unmonitored.

BigDave
Jul 14, 2009

Taste the High Country

moana posted:

Why are you in a hurry to get rid of credit you might need? Just set a monthly subscription on each of them and set them to autopay, then cut up the card and never do anything with them again. Age of credit is a big one for your credit score. Or just throw them away and see if they stay open on their own if you don't care.

I'm not really in a hurry to cancel them. I've been going over my finances for the new year and noticed that I managed to have 6 credit cards open, which didn't strike me as normal.

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Duckman2008
Jan 6, 2010

TFW you see Flyers goaltending.
Grimey Drawer

BigDave posted:

I'm not really in a hurry to cancel them. I've been going over my finances for the new year and noticed that I managed to have 6 credit cards open, which didn't strike me as normal.

It shouldn’t be normal, but for a lot of Americans it is.

Personally, keep the oldest one, candle two or three of the others.

Also, feel free to look and see if there’s a different rewards card that you could convert one to. I never use my oldest credit card, got advice on the forums on converting it to a card, I have a Costco membership so I am switching it to that. Keeps my credit history and slightly more useful.

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