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Helsing posted:What is the actual threat posed by Russia to the United States? The Russia thread seemed to be plagued by people not understanding what conditional statements are. I don't know if you were one of those people who couldn't understand hypotheticals. So, I am going to use an "If" statement. If Russia directly contributed to the election of a quasifascist xenophobe as the President of the United States, then they are a great threat to the United States. If Russia continued to foment political and social beliefs that verge on fascism, then they are a threat to the United States. And yes, yes, yes, I do know that racism already existed in the United States, and that Trump's particular brand of xenophobia is not something that he invented, and something that might have ended up having wide popular support with or without Trump or Russian interference. Actually, let me just make it even more basic: Russia is a state that has many symptoms of being somewhere between reactionary and fascist. We can argue about exactly what those are, but things like one-party rule, a single authority in charge for 20 years, who has conflated patriotism with personal loyalty, xenophobia, persecution of journalists and dissidents, persecution of sexual minorities, the alliance of the church and the state, are all signs and symptoms of fascism. As much as Russia has these traits (And someone who knows more than me would have to weigh each factor), Russia is a threat. Fascists states are always threats. If Russia is a fascist state, it is a threat. And yes, I know that Israel has several boxes on that checklist, as do, right now, The Philippines, Brazil, Hungary, and some more countries I can't name.
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Jan 21, 2019 07:08
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I'd like to continue this discussion but we might need to move it into a different thread.
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Jan 21, 2019 08:12
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Lol https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1087037296703139840
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Jan 21, 2019 10:28
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Dangerous Escaltion https://mobile.twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1087297762188820480
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Jan 21, 2019 12:08
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She's running https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1087328979219107840
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Jan 21, 2019 13:42
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glowing-fish posted:"actively contributes" to yes, but do you care to operationalize that contribution? Helsing posted:I'd like to continue this discussion but we might need to move it into a different thread. This is the correct path; this is not the thread for this discussion.
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Jan 21, 2019 19:31
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Charlz Guybon posted:Dangerous Escaltion What is extraordinary about this?
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Jan 21, 2019 19:52
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HootTheOwl posted:What is extraordinary about this? Publically admitting it.
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Jan 21, 2019 20:03
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Publically admitting it. Guess bibi is hoping war keeps him out of jail.
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Jan 21, 2019 22:57
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Publically admitting it. They know any phantom of a chain is off. Remember how anti-Isreal everyone said Obama was just for SLIGHTLY chilling relations with them by occasionally saying they were doing bad things while still selling them more guns than ever? Combine that with a rabidly anti-Iran Sec of State and National Security Advisor who are both DESPERATE for war with the Ayatollah, and Bibi knows now is the time to get every inch he can get before anything can happen to reign them in.
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Jan 22, 2019 00:05
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Dapper_Swindler posted:Guess bibi is hoping war keeps him out of jail. bingo
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Jan 22, 2019 02:40
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Posting this mostly for the ridiculous sketch. WTF https://twitter.com/jerryiannelli/status/1087374003189280768
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Jan 22, 2019 03:03
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Charlz Guybon posted:Posting this mostly for the ridiculous sketch. WTF 
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Jan 22, 2019 03:06
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Charlz Guybon posted:Posting this mostly for the ridiculous sketch. WTF Maybe they shouldn't have fired their sketch artists and switched to Mii Maker.
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Jan 22, 2019 03:13
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Charlz Guybon posted:Posting this mostly for the ridiculous sketch. WTF Is that a character from Bob’s Burgers?
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Jan 22, 2019 03:18
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Yeah, new season took a bleak turn.
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Jan 22, 2019 04:17
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I was annoyed when I saw that picture of that kid seemingly (Sandmann) taunting the protesting old man (Phillips). But since I saw this video I've been shaking with anger. https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...m=.304607a182ad “Look at us, God, look at what is going on here; my America is being torn apart by racism, hatred, bigotry.” -Phillips It's only one clear example of fake news, but god drat wait till Emperor Cheeto gets his stubby little fingers on it. These guys are reinforcing an insane narrative with these stunts, and as of now have successfully trolled a bunch of kids, and a group of civil rights protesters... and the national media. The full video was here up until minutes ago: https://www.greensboro.com/warning-...864a3ac645.html It looks like its either been removed, or the link is broken now. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2008/racist-black-hebrew-israelites-becoming-more-militant Look, I'm gonna play the same centrist that got me my av and redtext, and say that people who disagree with you are not necessarily your enemy, but I am of a firm opinion having encountered these guys, that I never before imagined the irony of a Nazi hiding behind a Star of David.
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Jan 22, 2019 05:56
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The Black Israelites are so hilariously over-the-top that I personally find it impossible to take them seriously, and if you decide to engage with them that's on you (And this is coming from someone who has in fact engaged with them).
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Jan 22, 2019 06:26
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Not to over post on the same subject, and I kinda agreed with the above poster, and would never engage them again now knowing what they are, but here's another copy of the full 1:46:18 video if anyone really feels up to skip around in it. They are clearly playing both sides. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQyBHTTqb38
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Jan 22, 2019 07:52
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Acebuckeye13 posted:The Black Israelites are so hilariously over-the-top that I personally find it impossible to take them seriously, and if you decide to engage with them that's on you (And this is coming from someone who has in fact engaged with them). I don't get this line of thought. From what I've read from other posters here they will also verbally abuse people unprovoked. Using your logic, if maga chuds wore red beanie with propellers on them it'd be good right?
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Jan 22, 2019 10:45
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Acebuckeye13 posted:The Black Israelites are so hilariously over-the-top that I personally find it impossible to take them seriously, and if you decide to engage with them that's on you (And this is coming from someone who has in fact engaged with them). So you're saying that if I walked up to a bunch of people I knew hated me, and they verbally harassed me, it would be my fault?
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Jan 22, 2019 14:44
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I had no idea she was in the running https://twitter.com/jpodhoretz/status/1087697744058290176
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Jan 22, 2019 14:46
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:I don't get this line of thought. From what I've read from other posters here they will also verbally abuse people unprovoked. Well yes, if their chosen guy wasn't President. Whose ear do these guys have? Farrakhan maybe?
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Jan 22, 2019 14:47
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Covington update: A lot of the death threats and media figures threatening to punch a high school kid in the face... ended up being directed at the wrong kid thanks to faulty Reddit-style internet detective work. https://twitter.com/PikePlaceTechie/status/1087117202749378560 (This is the Hodge family, the kid in the video was Sandmann) glowing-fish posted:If Russia directly contributed to the election of a quasifascist xenophobe as the President of the United States, then they are a great threat to the United States. What the Putin admin wants is to position itself as being powerful enough to control US elections. They did this by buying a few ads on Facebook. You fell for it, even if you're trying to be on "the other side".
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Jan 22, 2019 15:37
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revwinnebago posted:What the Putin admin wants is to position itself as being powerful enough to control US elections. If you ever look through the history of the cold war you'll find that it's remarkably cheap to buy influence in the US. The old Soviet Union preferred getting right-wing people as spies because they could often be turned for a bit of money rather than ideology. It doesn't take much for capitalists to sell out.
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Jan 22, 2019 16:42
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SimonCat posted:So you're saying that if I walked up to a bunch of people I knew hated me, and they verbally harassed me, it would be my fault? I think you misunderstand. The way these guys operate is that they stand around and shout at people to get them to engage with them, then film the encounters and post them to YouTube to one-up each other. Their entire goal is to get you to respond-so if you're walking around, they shout at you, and you decide to engage with them, they've already won. The best and only reasonable thing to do is ignore them completely. Unless you enjoy being lectured about how white people are going to be slaves, homosexuality is a plot to destroy humanity, and Japan is one of the twelve tribes of Israel.
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Jan 22, 2019 16:57
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Taerkar posted:If you ever look through the history of the cold war you'll find that it's remarkably cheap to buy influence in the US. The old Soviet Union preferred getting right-wing people as spies because they could often be turned for a bit of money rather than ideology. They also thought the left-wing were doing their job for them already so they didn't have to invest much to keep that rolling. This view hasn't changed. Taerkar posted:It doesn't take much for capitalists to sell out. As opposed to? Acebuckeye13 posted:I think you misunderstand. The way these guys operate is that they stand around and shout at people to get them to engage with them, then film the encounters and post them to YouTube to one-up each other. Their entire goal is to get you to respond-so if you're walking around, they shout at you, and you decide to engage with them, they've already won. The best and only reasonable thing to do is ignore them completely. Unless you enjoy being lectured about how white people are going to be slaves, homosexuality is a plot to destroy humanity, and Japan is one of the twelve tribes of Israel. This tactic is also called bull-baiting and a lot of cults, particularly Scientology and Westboro, are famous for it. http://www.scientologycourses.org/courses-view/communication/step/16.html It's one of the primary ways cults brainwash new recruits.
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Jan 22, 2019 17:33
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I think you misunderstand. The way these guys operate is that they stand around and shout at people to get them to engage with them, then film the encounters and post them to YouTube to one-up each other. Their entire goal is to get you to respond-so if you're walking around, they shout at you, and you decide to engage with them, they've already won. The best and only reasonable thing to do is ignore them completely. Unless you enjoy being lectured about how white people are going to be slaves, homosexuality is a plot to destroy humanity, and Japan is one of the twelve tribes of Israel. I apologise, I was making a snarky comment comparing engaging with the HBIs to being a minority and walking up to a group of loud people wearing MAGA gear and expecting love and respect. Anyway, I don't want to poo poo up the news thread with this, you seem like you're posting in good faith, I shall endeavor to as well.
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Jan 22, 2019 19:23
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I wonder who the unidentified country is.
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Jan 22, 2019 19:24
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Solvent posted:I was annoyed when I saw that picture of that kid seemingly (Sandmann) taunting the protesting old man (Phillips). But since I saw this video I've been shaking with anger. How does any of this make a bunch of racist white shitheads in MAGA hats come off looking any worse than before?
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Jan 22, 2019 19:36
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The thing too many people have been overlooking about this MAGAkids thing is what the gently caress this school is doing bussing high school students, decked out in their MAGA gear, to a political rally. What sort of political indoctrination poo poo is this? I’m seeing lots of back-and-forth about how much vitrol should be hurled at the minor students, but nobody needs to use kid gloves in condemning the school administrators responsible for educating and deciding to ship the little mini-chuds off to the political rally to get into confrontations with other protestors.
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Jan 23, 2019 00:53
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Sucrose posted:The thing too many people have been overlooking about this MAGAkids thing is what the gently caress this school is doing bussing high school students, decked out in their MAGA gear, to a political rally. lol, welcome to private religious schools
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Jan 23, 2019 00:57
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Sucrose posted:The thing too many people have been overlooking about this MAGAkids thing is what the gently caress this school is doing bussing high school students, decked out in their MAGA gear, to a political rally. This is what these religious schools have done for decades.
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Jan 23, 2019 01:18
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https://twitter.com/pwnallthethings/status/1087867030706024449
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Jan 23, 2019 01:20
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Good for Buzzfeed for stepping up and sticking with their story. People give them a lot of poo poo as a company, but Buzzfeed News is one of the few journalistic sources that really research and seem to have earned the trust of their sources.
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Jan 23, 2019 01:32
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Hastings posted:Good for Buzzfeed for stepping up and sticking with their story. People give them a lot of poo poo as a company, but Buzzfeed News is one of the few journalistic sources that really research and seem to have earned the trust of their sources. Someone explain to me what I'm missing. I've only perused that link but here's what I feel like is happening. Buzzfeed: We've seen evidence that the SCO has proof that the President instructed Cohen to lie to Congress about when/how the Trump Moscow deal happened." Everyone: Holy poo poo! They have evidence of Trump telling him to lie to Congress! That's just like John Dean and Nixon! SCO: Some parts of that article aren't true, but we're not saying which. Cohen's Lawyers: But I definitely say he told me to lie. Everyone: drat it. So I guess the part about Cohen's claims are true but the parts that there's evidence that directly links Trump aren't. That sucks. Buzzfeed: Here's evidence that Cohen lied about when/how the Trump/Moscow deal happened. That wasn't really the part anyone had in question? What am I missing? I'm fully open to the possibility that I'm missing something obvious because I'm often an idiot.
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Jan 23, 2019 02:13
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STAC Goat posted:Someone explain to me what I'm missing. I've only perused that link but here's what I feel like is happening. From what I've seen in the media (especially CNN and ABC) they've been using this whole story to act as if Buzzfeed News is a bunch of partisan hacks who deeply betrayed everyone and made us all look stupid. It's very much been written as "Mueller came out and said Buzzfeed was wrong" not that they had a portion worded slightly off, but that it was wrong. This is why the authors have been firm on sticking with their sources and releasing more documents.
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Jan 23, 2019 02:32
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Hastings posted:From what I've seen in the media (especially CNN and ABC) they've been using this whole story to act as if Buzzfeed News is a bunch of partisan hacks who deeply betrayed everyone and made us all look stupid. It's very much been written as "Mueller came out and said Buzzfeed was wrong" not that they had a portion worded slightly off, but that it was wrong. This is why the authors have been firm on sticking with their sources and releasing more documents. But from what I can tell nothing Buzzfeed is posting appears to actually speak to any of the (reasonable) criticism people have had about Buzzfeed's original article? Like, even the RWM "everything is a lie" attack isn't "Trump Moscow deal wasn't going on longer than they admitted" its "Trump didn't tell Cohen to lie about it." Because THAT's the big thing. Like yes, some people especially in RWM took the opportunity to say that EVERYTHING Buzzfeed said was untrue. But even once we both agree that was unfair aren't there still reasonable questions about SOME of what Buzzfeed said (especially considering the SCO statement and some of their walkbacks) that none of these documents seem to actually address? edit: Is this offtopic for the thread? I feel like I'm trying to get clarification that I'm reading the news articles correctly or have the glaring thing I'm missing pointed out to me if it exists. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Jan 23, 2019 |
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Jan 23, 2019 02:46
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STAC Goat posted:Someone explain to me what I'm missing. I've only perused that link but here's what I feel like is happening. Nobody really knows. Buzzfeed could be vindicated tomorrow or they could be full of poo poo. But a couple of important steps you missed are: the SCO's response turned out to be motivated by top-down and possibly illegal prodding from the DOJ and White House, and "Everyone" didn't come to any sort of consensus like that, but there were multiple, seemingly contradictory articles from the Wapo within, if I remember right, literally hours of each other, and both sourced to anonymous deep-administration speakers, one portraying the SCO's response as a total repudiation of Buzzfeed and the other heavily walking back the idea that the SCO's response repudiated anything. That was the point where really side-eying the SCO response, especially combined with the fact that Buzzfeed has, so far, refused to walk-back anything. Buzzfeed's position isn't really any more tenable than it was immediately after the SCOs response, and you're right that the current documents released don't really have anything to do with the central claim at issue, but the really obvious and ham-fisted way the anti-Buzzfeed backlash was artificially manipulated by inside sources ended up perversely lending Buzzfeed more credibility than the naked facts ought to support.
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Jan 23, 2019 02:48
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