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Flip Yr Wig posted:Fortunately for them, humans already burned up all the fossilized trees left over from the carboniferous. And the oil and natural gas from compressed and heated plankton. In just 300 years, we burned through the battery that took like a hundred million years to charge. Efficient!
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Jan 22, 2019 19:55
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An industrializing civilization gradually discovering that the once bountiful resources of their planet were almost entirely used up by a wasteful previous civilization a hundred thousand or million years ago would be a neat frame for a sci fi story.
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Jan 22, 2019 20:00
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Helsing posted:An industrializing civilization gradually discovering that the once bountiful resources of their planet were almost entirely used up by a wasteful previous civilization a hundred thousand or million years ago would be a neat frame for a sci fi story. Would be even funnier if we find the traces in that story. Turns out back then there was tons more oil, coal and gas but a precursor civilization used so much of it they unleashed one of the larger extinction events we know about! And now mankind has only like 25% of it left. Oh, wait. We used most of that up, now. Oops.
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Jan 22, 2019 20:03
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StabbinHobo posted:hobos made up scale: I feel like a bad OP because I have shot up to a 6 in the past 5 months in trying to get a YIMBY and a Climate Change Eco-warrior group started in the City of Alexandria. We have made inroads so far with the city council to install bat boxes instead of using pesticides on parkland to assist invertebrate populations and are working to get zoning guidelines loosened for high-density residential housing as well as working to increase bus ridership and get NOVA to invest in buses instead of more lanes for interstates. We are doing call campaigns to get our state legislature to bring the hammer down on Dominion Power dumping coal ash in our rivers. poo poo has been crazy so I barely have time to post in the thread. So yeah, apologies if I drop in and mischaracterize something somewhere. A great and easy thing for goons to do is to join a YIMBY group for your county(If you are an American, not sure what the alternative is for non-Americans) because population density drives mass transit, green ridership initiatives, and walkable spaces. Montgomery Country in MD is making huge strides because of a small Facebook group that was started by a couple of friends of mine and a fellow goon. They stand a great chance at getting the country to sign off of rezoning that would allow flexible housing and secondary dwelling units(read being able to rent out your basement, something that is impossible under current MoCo law.) Also, they are in the process of rezoning now dead strip malls to be high-density residential spaces and are increasing the number of walkable spaces in the county. All of this helps curb carbon emissions not just on a personal level, but a community level. Getting involved in your local community works and has a ripple effect. If you don't show up to represent the climate change cause, then it will just be the NIMBYs voice being heard. And you bet your rear end that they turn out in force driven by shortsighted FYGM and some lovely racism. So yeah, get out there and get in the goddamn trenches. By getting active locally, we can start a chain effect that echoes out statewide, and eventually nationally. The thing is that you have to put in the blood and sweat to achieve it and that means sacrificing your time, leisure, and money. Corporations are never going to willingly change. People and communities have to organize to demand that change through going to every goddamn council hearing, zoning commission meeting, and town hall. friendbot2000 fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jan 22, 2019 |
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Jan 22, 2019 20:28
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Is it a feature or a bug that my local YIMBY groups are pretty indifferent when it comes to housing people who don't work in tech, pharma, or finance?
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Jan 22, 2019 20:46
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Insanite posted:Is it a feature or a bug that my local YIMBY groups are pretty indifferent when it comes to housing people who don't work in tech, pharma, or finance? Unfortunately as I found where I live, a lot of YIMBY groups are NIMBY groups in everything but name. They claim to want population densification as long as it is upper mid to upperclass white people. Hence why I felt compelled to start my own and tell the NIMBY in sheeps clothing to gently caress off. So I would say it is the status quo working as intended. We have already split people off from the main groups so the insurgency is working as planned.
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Jan 22, 2019 21:17
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Insanite posted:Is it a feature or a bug that my local YIMBY groups are pretty indifferent when it comes to housing people who don't work in tech, pharma, or finance? Part of the inherent statement of YIMBY is that development is good and should happen to "my" neighborhood so it tends to focus on increasing development in the most "desirable" areas rather than investing in communities with the most need for resources because those are the people who often have time to fight to increase development. That then is coupled with relying on developers as gatekeepers, as in developers still have to make a profit. So the fight is over rezoning the richest communities to make them denser while the acres of open brownfield blocks from mass transit are ignored because developers can't get the profits they want from non-white communities. edit: also the whole "letting polluters off the hook, oops now its too expensive to replace that battery repair yard with housing because the lead is oozing out of the ground" is a compounding issue. Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Jan 22, 2019 |
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Jan 22, 2019 21:17
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Trabisnikof posted:Part of the inherent statement of YIMBY is that development is good and should happen to "my" neighborhood so it tends to focus on increasing development in the most "desirable" areas rather than investing in communities with the most need for resources because those are the people who often have time to fight to increase development. That then is coupled with relying on developers as gatekeepers, as in developers still have to make a profit. Pretty much this. It is an uphill battle to get investment to the places that actually need it and also to making the richest communities more diverse, dense, and affordable. Something most YIMBY groups loathe because then their idyllic safe space has to meet reality. Yes, Dominion Power is loving famous for this bullshit regarding pollution. Fortunately, there is a growing movement to pry their ghoulish fingers off VA politics. 2017 saw 17 reps elected by rejecting Dominion Power money and we are hoping to carry that into this years State Elections. Northam's rubberstamping the natural gas pipeline pissed me the gently caress off and I plan to help primary his polluting rear end.
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Jan 22, 2019 21:31
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friendbot2000 posted:Unfortunately as I found where I live, a lot of YIMBY groups are NIMBY groups in everything but name. They claim to want population densification as long as it is upper mid to upperclass white people. Hence why I felt compelled to start my own and tell the NIMBY in sheeps clothing to gently caress off. That's absolutely my experience, too. Extremely good on you for doing that. Godspeed in your densification quest, in that case. I think there's probably some neat environmental justice stuff to think about here in the interplay between climate change and urban development, but I'm not smart enough to figure it out, yet. Whatever the case, you do end up with poor people losing access to cities and the mass transit that comes with them.
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Jan 22, 2019 21:34
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Rime did nothing wrong and nothing he/she said was factually incorrect It's sorta interesting how the 'you are NOT allowed to a pessimist' correlates perfectly with the data showing pessimism is probably the right way to go Like, could you make it any more obvious how threatened you are by climate pessimism? Nobody cares about crackpots predicting the end of the world on street corners, and clearly these pessimists are on the same level, right? So why even give them the time of day? dream9!bed!! fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Jan 22, 2019 |
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Jan 22, 2019 21:35
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Insanite posted:I think there's probably some neat environmental justice stuff to think about here in the interplay between climate change and urban development, but I'm not smart enough to figure it out, yet. white people would rather end life on earth than live in the same neighborhood let alone building as black people.
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Jan 22, 2019 22:32
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dream9!bed!! posted:Rime did nothing wrong and nothing he/she said was factually incorrect The point is not that he isn't right, its that having a sadbrain dominate the thread is tedious when people who are new to the topic are actually trying to do something against climate change and get belittled for their optimism that they can make a difference . Like dude, we get it, poo poo is hosed, but doing anything at all is better than just ignoring it, and the topic is so massive and terrifying that people don't need to be told that it's futile and that they're idiots every step of the way. Rime is not a crackpot, but he's aggressively nihilistic about it and that stifles any serious discussion.
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Jan 22, 2019 22:44
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dream9!bed!! posted:Rime did nothing wrong and nothing he/she said was factually incorrect What is less clear is why Rime cares what anyone happens to believe one way or another?
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Jan 22, 2019 22:51
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dream9!bed!! posted:Rime did nothing wrong and nothing he/she said was factually incorrect Goddamnit how do some of you still not get it? Newcomer: "Hey I've read this and it's really depressing. If I do ______ will it help--" Rime: "gently caress YOU DID YOU READ ANYTHING I POSTED? IT'S USELESS AND WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE AND YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF FOR TRYING." *Thread closed. Repeat a few times.* Thread OP: "Okay guys let's try this again, this time new rule: Productive responses please, keep the doomsdaying to a reasonable level okay?" Rime: "Imma let you finish but gently caress you I don't care about your thread rules, we're all going to die and there's nothing we can do about it so eat poo poo." *Rime eats a 30d and is told to GTFO* Goons: "Oh but it's so unfair because he sourced his doomsday articles!" It's not because he posts content that isn't legit or sourced or even right. It's that he's a loving jackass creating a lovely environment for anyone else who wants to discuss the topic on any terms other than "we're all going to die." 
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Jan 22, 2019 22:57
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I liked his posts, though, as did probably ten other posters who had the balls to say it in this thread. The only thing you appear to do is tone police others, like I literally cannot find another type of post from you in this thread? What you loving should feel when you see a bird whose taxa is doomed to extinction is grief. What you should feel when you see a massive cottonwood that's drank from a stream for hundreds of years, and knowing that a human may never see big trees like that again, is grief. We're currently watching the most beautiful things that have ever existed get pissed on and burned in a sadistic orgy, if you're tone policing people in this environment then you're the loving enemy.
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Jan 22, 2019 23:04
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as a highly valued lurker I think Rime's posts were some of the more interesting ones in the thread despite his poo poo opinions on other topics, and the thread will be much poorer for his absence. like fireflies bobbing on the evening breeze, or lovebugs caking my windshield with goop.
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Jan 22, 2019 23:09
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Rime is a june bug clinging to my hair and OH GOD I CANT GET IT OFF ME
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Jan 22, 2019 23:10
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I think that captures the spirit of his last post the best.
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Jan 22, 2019 23:13
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Nah, while Rime posted articles he took the most doomsday spin on them, and quite frankly I see no value in his editorializing over the actual article itself. It's about the same as his contribution to the Canadian debt bubble thread, where he should've been perma'ed with the endless racism years ago. poo poo's hosed, we know that, but I'm pretty sure he's actively counterproductive by discouraging people who want to push back against the problem with the whole "everything is going to die horribly" thing. Sundae posted:Goddamnit how do some of you still not get it? Pretty much this. Rime is death to a thread's value.
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Jan 22, 2019 23:19
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thesis: poo poo is irreparably hosed and even if we forged the tools to fix it tomorrow it'd be twenty years too late. antithesis: i don't want to die. synthesis: don't die like a punk, punk.
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Jan 22, 2019 23:23
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EvilJoven posted:As much as personal vehicle use needs to be curbed I totally understand and support the yellow vest protests in Paris. The gas tax is regressive as gently caress and nobody should have to tolerate the ruling class placing all the burden on the proles, it's complete bullshit. There was also a reduction in the highest marginal tax rates that went along with the gas tax. So you're right.
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Jan 22, 2019 23:24
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There is a world of difference between being right and forcing everyone else to acknowledge just how right you are. I mean, if everyone who enters this thread must inevitably align themselves with the belief that the doom of the world is imminent and the only correct solution is to embrace death, then why even have a discussion thread. Open hostility to everything else but that narrow perspective was the problem, not that Rime's doomsaying is probably accurate and grounded in fact and that hurts feelings. Grieving and being angry about the situation is fine, but it's not helpful to take that out on other, equally concerned people.
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Jan 22, 2019 23:27
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The Dipshit posted:
See, everything is going to die horribly. You can be bullish about people managing to pull through, but wildlife as we know it really can't. A good outcome now is that not too many hundreds of millions of people die in the famines, and that children might able to experience squirrels on field trips to hermetically sealed zoos. Insanite fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Jan 22, 2019 |
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Jan 22, 2019 23:27
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I still argue there remains a range of worse and worser options and thus it actually still does matter if we begin to address climate change or not. The final form of denialist was always going to be “ooops too late better not do anything.”
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Jan 22, 2019 23:29
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this forum has been totally overrun by the collective delusion that better things are possible for balance's sake there really should be at least one place where people are allowed to acknowledge the world for the rotting, unsalvageable husk that it is
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Jan 22, 2019 23:36
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Oxxidation posted:this forum has been totally overrun by the collective delusion that better things are possible I think we all know that the future is bleak but the only way to tell yourself to keep going, to keep trying, is to try to keep doing and pushing for more positive things. Like I've got a horrible problem with depression and I am medicated and seeing a therapist and the best way to cope with poo poo is to look for little positive things that you can do. I know that in the wide view of things, we have to change corporations because they are the biggest polluters but I still feel better every time I take a bus and reduce my meat intake.
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Jan 22, 2019 23:40
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Oxxidation posted:this forum has been totally overrun by the collective delusion that better things are possible gently caress yeah, hedonistic waste ftw. Doesn’t matter what we pollute anymore, might as well just enjoy ourselves now!
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Jan 22, 2019 23:51
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Record Numbers of Americans Say They Care About Global Warming, Poll Finds “I’ve never seen jumps in some of the key indicators like this,” the lead researcher said. A record number of Americans understand that climate change is real, according to a new survey, and they are increasingly worried about its effects in their lives today. Some 73 percent of Americans polled late last year said that global warming was happening, the report found, a jump of 10 percentage points from 2015 and three points since last March. The rise in the number of Americans who say global warming is personally important to them was even sharper, jumping nine percentage points since March to 72 percent, another record over the past decade.
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Jan 22, 2019 23:54
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In the face of climate change, gently caress you got mine is the only rational philosophy.
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Jan 22, 2019 23:55
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VideoGameVet posted:Record Numbers of Americans Say They Care About Global Warming, Poll Finds Now do the one that shows Americans' willingness to give up beef.
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Jan 22, 2019 23:57
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Trabisnikof posted:gently caress yeah, hedonistic waste ftw. Doesn’t matter what we pollute anymore, might as well just enjoy ourselves now! who said anything about hedonism in the modern age the only honest way to live is with unrelenting awareness of one's imminent annihilation any attempts at pleasure or self-care are immoral deviations from this viewpoint and should be treated as such with that in mind, rime's posts are in fact very valuable because they're a steady flow of empirical evidence about the truth of our situation, rather than vague noise about hope, positivity, electing this socialist person or overthrowing this rich person
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Jan 22, 2019 23:57
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Oxxidation posted:who said anything about hedonism Ah yes, you take your pleasure in the form of self-flagellation, but at the end of the day the outcome is the same is it not? That’s your point, only the worst is possible so trying to take moral actions is a fools game.
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Jan 23, 2019 00:03
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Personally, I've made major lifestyle changes, beginning in the 1980's. Not all at once, but by the late 1990's. 1. No meat or dairy, and since 2008 no fish. 2. Use a bicycle + subway + Amtrak as my main transportation to/from work (I work part of the week in LA, live in San Diego County) and errands. 3. Donate as much as I can to get people elected who will do something about this issue, notable victory was getting an environmentalist elected to replace Issa in Congress. 4. Work to get better cycling infrastructure. North San Diego County is pretty good. Los Angeles "The Valley" is majorly bad. I rarely see anyone else bike commuting. 5. Have carefully maintained a 40mpg car for almost 20 years, so I don't incur the environmental impact of having a replacement built. When that happens, it will be an EV ... possibly a conversion of an old car for the same reason. BUT I won't consider hope unless we address the denial industry. 1. Tobacco-Industry like settlements with Exxon and their ilk, who knew about the problem and choose to spend $$$ on climate-denying shills. 2. Criminal penalities for "environmental fraud." For example 'scientists' on the payroll of bullshit think-tanks funded by energy interests. Doesn't mean we are going to survive, but I'd really like to see the people who made this possible pay for their crimes against the planet.
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Jan 23, 2019 00:06
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Somebody with a long list of posts in the games forum has now arrived to announce that hedonism is immoral 
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Jan 23, 2019 00:07
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Insanite posted:Now do the one that shows Americans' willingness to give up beef. Or the willingness of US Environmental groups to even broach the subject. I don't see the mailings from Greenpeace or The Sierra Club talking about this. Union of Concerned Scientists? Yes. They do.
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Jan 23, 2019 00:07
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Helsing posted:Somebody with a long list of posts in the games forum has now arrived to announce that hedonism is immoral Want some rye? But seriously when I was a AAA Game Exec I was a ginormous fatbeast. Change is good. Oh, and I left that position (VP) at one of the largest game companies in the world, to try and work on improving education. Which is why I'm not rich.
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Jan 23, 2019 00:10
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I was making fun of Oxxidation, who mostly posts in the anime and games forum, trying to argue that pleasure and self care (please shower Oxxidation, for your mom's sake if not your own) are immoral.
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Jan 23, 2019 00:15
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VideoGameVet posted:Or the willingness of US Environmental groups to even broach the subject. I’ve heard multiple accounts of the NRDC silencing scientists because their research wasn’t pro-market enough. Sierra Club is likewise “pro-market or gtfo.” So yeah, don’t look to them for allies.
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Jan 23, 2019 00:23
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Helsing posted:I was making fun of Oxxidation, who mostly posts in the anime and games forum, trying to argue that pleasure and self care (please shower Oxxidation, for your mom's sake if not your own) are immoral. You see I thought you were talking about me, the guy who was in the game business for 35 years. Thanks for the correction.
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Jan 23, 2019 00:23
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People will absolutely drop beef if the price of its emissions footprint was passed on to them. I cut it pretty much entirely out of my diet due to both health and environment concerns and I balk at the idea of adding what I used to spend on red meat back into my budget. People might love meat but especially in the US people buy groceries based on what their wallets allow, and meat happens to meet a lot of nutritional demands for cheap. People rarely go out for Big Macs because they love it. I think the talking point that the overwhelming majority of emissions comes from a handful of corporations broke some brains, because while it's true it creates the impression that change is impossible at an individual level because they are too big for us to fight. But what also gets flattened out by the talking point is that those corporations are creating products for consumption and that consumption is still done at an individual level. I'm certain market solutions aren't enough but it's also short-sighted to suggest that they will solve *nothing*.
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Jan 23, 2019 00:27
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