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At the end of the chapter on Saturday, Pirateaba’s note detailed their lack of faith in the chapter and potential desire to rewrite it. Today’s chapter is a “rewrite”, but at 27,000 words it’s pretty much 2 chapters in 1. I’m surprised they went ahead and published the now defunct chapter to non-patrons today, that seems like a weird look when you know it’s not canon, especially when they wrote enough that they could have broken the new one into 2 (I haven’t read the updated version yet so I don’t actually know if it contains a good chapter break).
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Jan 22, 2019 14:56
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Gladi posted:So something strange happened at TWI with the entire chapter being scrapped. I know that there are Patrons here, was it like this even on Saturday or did Pirateaba changed their mind over time? I'm slightly behind, but there's the now labeled 'non-cannon' chapter up, as well as the re-write link in my email this morning. I just caught up to the Bird side story and it was everything I wanted. Also, god drat these chapters are getting long. Pirateaba needs to start to split them up.
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Jan 22, 2019 21:56
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Ward: “Sidepiece is coming,” Tattletale said. “Whoever said that is lying!” Sidepiece called out. “I was faking it! Do you want to see the real thing? Let me show you!” L m a o sidepiece is the best
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Jan 22, 2019 23:23
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Cicero posted:Thanks for recommending Forge of Destiny. I just finished binging it and what's there of its sequel book, really well done Western Xianxia CYOA LitRPG web serial, which sure is a lot of words. Characters are well fleshed out and diverse in personality, the increases in power feel mostly earned, there's as much important talking/socializing as important training/fighting, etc. Got a link to this?
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Jan 22, 2019 23:40
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tithin posted:Got a link to this? https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/forge-of-destiny-xianxia-quest.35583/ , assuming you meant Forge of Destiny (A Will Eternal can be found through NovelUpdates probably, and I think it's also on the main paid Xianxia services?). There's no reason to not read the re-write (which he links at the top of the thread - https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/21188/forge-of-destiny) up until it's current point, though IMO there's no reason not to just read the thread once you catch up with the re-write. The re-write is fortunately far enough that you'll have a good idea whether you like the story or not by that point. It doesn't change anything major; just fixes some grammar and changes the order of some things. Forge of Destiny is actually technically complete, though it continues in its sequel Threads of Destiny which follows the protagonist through their second year at the Sect (and which makes changes to the combat system, though as a reader you can basically ignore the dice and stuff unless you're curious; it's sometimes interesting to find out which events were the result of bad/good luck). The biggest difference between Forge of Destiny and the "real" Xianxia Cicero mentions (like A Will Eternal) is that Forge of Destiny almost completely excises the power fantasy/pandering elements. The protagonist is very talented, but they absolutely aren't the strongest, and they don't have any super unique talents that only apply to them. They basically have what it takes to reach the upper end of cultivator society, but they don't have some completely unheard of level of talent. One kind of neat thing about Forge of Destiny is that, IIRC, some side characters were actually potential protagonists. At the beginning the author had the audience choose the background of the protagonist, and some of the other main characters are more or less based on the templates that could have applied to other protagonists - Ji Rong and Han Jian are probably the most obvious, as the super-high talent criminal and noble respectively). In general, you really get the impression that every single remotely prominent side character has their own background and circumstances, even if they don't intersect with the protagonist's life much. CaptainJuan posted:Ward: I have to admit I was surprised by the earlier revelation that Sidepiece actually experiences pain from tearing body parts off, and has random nerve/muscle-weirdness from tearing things out. Like, her power makes me light-headed to begin with, but that's even worse. And apparently she is forced to use her power, because otherwise some of her organs go volatile? That's easily gotta be one of the shittiest powers. I wonder if it gives her entire body a sort of pseudo-immortality, or if it only applies to her abdominal area. It could be that she just uses the abdomen due to the high concentration of organs and the fact that it doesn't inhibit her movement much. edit: It's also kind of horrifying to imagine what kind of trigger event Sidepiece must have had. If I recall correctly she triggered while being tortured or something similarly hosed up, so when you think about how her particular power saved her from that situation....yikes. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Jan 23, 2019 |
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Jan 22, 2019 23:58
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Ytlaya posted:https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/forge-of-destiny-xianxia-quest.35583/ , assuming you meant Forge of Destiny https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/forge-of-destiny-xianxia-quest.35583/reader
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Jan 23, 2019 00:32
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lurksion posted:Reader mode is probably a better link I feel like at this point, I should link our own Paradise Lost It's super long, there's a recap somewhere about halfway through, but that was over a year ago at least.
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Jan 23, 2019 17:14
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Nettle Soup posted:I feel like at this point, I should link our own Paradise Lost  It is very good.
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Jan 23, 2019 19:48
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It's good that, in PracGuide, the drow were given a reasonable weakness. Because as is, they're an army with like 20+ uber-warriors that are individually stronger than pretty much any non-Saint of Swords/Pilgrim hero (in addition to the regular drow, many of whom are basically Named-tier themselves). They can basically easily win any battle at night, but will run into a big weakness afterwards. Cat herself is presumably even stronger than Rumena now, since I think she's basically the top Night person other than the Goddesses themselves. I imagine any future fights will have to be largely tactical, since there simply aren't many people who can actually engage sigil leader-tier drow in combat. I'm kinda looking forward to Malicia's reaction to Cat suddenly returning with an army of powerful drow, because from what I can tell this is something not even remotely within her expectations. Also, I'm curious about what the gently caress is going on with Masego. edit: Oh, I also liked how Cat brought up being bothered by Archer's constant FYGM conservative ideology. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Jan 24, 2019 |
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Jan 24, 2019 07:15
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Ytlaya posted:Also, I'm curious about what the gently caress is going on with Masego His dads betrayed him and then, without real resolution, just died for something he thought was stupid in a way that he probably thinks is stupid and unfair for a person and a nation that he thinks is stupid and he wants to be with his friends?
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Jan 24, 2019 14:00
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All the talk in here about Practical Guide to Evil makes it sound very interesting. But two things kept me from continuing to read it (i only read the prologue and 1st two chapters). One is the influence of D&D and rpgs in general, which i generally loathe in fiction. All the talk of nameds (aka classes) made it seem to be one of those stereotypical soulless worlds governed by actual roleplaying mechanics. The other is the feeling i got that "Good" was meant to be just semantics for authoritarianism and/or religious fanaticism, as is the case in so many "deconstructions", and a trope that grates me to no end. How far i'm off the mark? Are those themes really so prevalent that would prevent me from enjoying the story?
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Jan 24, 2019 18:32
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Kefahuchi_son!!! posted:All the talk in here about Practical Guide to Evil makes it sound very interesting. The “Names” are less D&D classes and more fairy tale/trope roles that give a mortal extra leverage to affect the world when they convincingly play their part. And both Good and Evil are assholes playing games (literally) with the lives of mortals. Give it a few more chapters, because I think you have the wrong idea about where it’s going.
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Jan 24, 2019 18:44
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yeah the world runs on narrative and not really anything like d&d , except that elfs and dwarfs exist but thats like, just fantasy stuff rpg stuff
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Jan 24, 2019 19:24
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builds character posted:His dads betrayed him and then, without real resolution, just died for something he thought was stupid in a way that he probably thinks is stupid and unfair for a person and a nation that he thinks is stupid and he wants to be with his friends? No, the stuff with him seemingly disappearing on his way back to Callow. Kefahuchi_son!!! posted:All the talk in here about Practical Guide to Evil makes it sound very interesting. The first concern is completely off-base, the second has some validity to it. Though the main difference between PracGuide and the sort of thing you're mentioning is that Evil isn't portrayed as really being better than Good either. edit: I should probably add that I'm the sort of person who has little tolerance for the vast majority of web serials/novels, including stuff like Wandering Inn, and PracGuide is a cut above most. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Jan 24, 2019 |
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Jan 24, 2019 19:26
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Prac Guide is a step above the literal unreadables but ehhhhh it has some pretty glaring issues with pacing, characterization, and prose.
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Jan 24, 2019 19:48
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Sampatrick posted:Prac Guide is a step above the literal unreadables but ehhhhh it has some pretty glaring issues with pacing, characterization, and prose. Which web serial doesn't?
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Jan 24, 2019 20:14
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Tom Clancy is Dead posted:Which web serial doesn't? Sad but true. Serialization is not great for writing stories. I still don't get why web serials are all so bad at pacing though. Everything else yknow whatever. But the pacing is consistently so dang bad in every single one.
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Jan 24, 2019 20:23
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Ytlaya posted:The first concern is completely off-base, the second has some validity to it. Though the main difference between PracGuide and the sort of thing you're mentioning is that Evil isn't portrayed as really being better than Good either. Good and Evil in pracguide are very much Shin Megami Tensei good and evil, which is to say, not good and evil at all, just law and chaos. "good" is about giving up your will to the higher power and doing exactly what they want, even if what they want is patently evil, and "evil" is all about the strong ruling and gently caress anything else.
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Jan 24, 2019 20:36
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NinjaDebugger posted:Good and Evil in pracguide are very much Shin Megami Tensei good and evil, which is to say, not good and evil at all, just law and chaos. "good" is about giving up your will to the higher power and doing exactly what they want, even if what they want is patently evil, and "evil" is all about the strong ruling and gently caress anything else. No, Good and Evil are more or less lined up with our conception of good and evil, erratic errata has said this.
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Jan 24, 2019 20:39
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Sampatrick posted:No, Good and Evil are more or less lined up with our conception of good and evil, erratic errata has said this. That's pretty much bullshit, and if ee wants me to believe it, it needs to go on the loving page. Until then it's JK Rowling saying that wizards shat in the streets and vanished it.
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Jan 24, 2019 20:58
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I wish I were less anal about stuff like this, but I had to stop reading Prac Guide just because of the intermittent grammar and spelling problems. Too distracting for me.
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Jan 24, 2019 20:59
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NinjaDebugger posted:That's pretty much bullshit, and if ee wants me to believe it, it needs to go on the loving page. Until then it's JK Rowling saying that wizards shat in the streets and vanished it. No, it's an explicit setting fact. The Good Guys really do care about the seven virtues, it's just that independence of thought is not an inherently virtuous thing. They don't want everyone to be a hivemind, but they have no issue with violating independence in service of virtue. You're just conflating your own view of virtue on something that is explicitly based on medieval Christianity.
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Jan 24, 2019 21:06
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Sampatrick posted:They don't want everyone to be a hivemind, Except Contrition, they pretty much do
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Jan 24, 2019 21:22
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Sampatrick posted:You're just conflating your own view of virtue on something that is explicitly based on medieval Christianity. actually I'm laughing at the idea that medieval christianity valued virtue over order.
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Jan 24, 2019 21:55
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Thansk for all the answers!!! I don't hold web serials to be some paragon of the arts so some jankiness is expected ( i like wildbow's works despite that). The idea of the named as more narrative derived aspects and good and evil being SMT- like appeal to my taste so i think i'll read through a few more chapters at least. Though i also think that framing our conception of "good" as solely derived from the seven virtues (which are not even the theological virtues) is a bit disingenious on the author's part.
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Jan 25, 2019 12:30
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Sampatrick posted:explicitly based on medieval Christianity. So SMT Law, yeah. Good and Evil in PracGuide are both extremely awful.
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Jan 25, 2019 13:12
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So I started reading forge of destiny and my only complaint so far is WHY DID THE MAIN CHARACTER REJECT MEIZHEN 
Xun fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Jan 25, 2019 |
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Jan 25, 2019 16:15
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I think the people arguing that Good and Evil are equivalent in PGtE are letting Cat and Black’s perspective blind them. Let’s run things down. On a nation level, compare the societies dedicated to Above and Below. The former resemble (popular conceptions of) actual historical nations. You have scheming aristocrats and varying degrees of oppressed peasants, but things generally function reasonably in Procer, Ashur or the old Kingdom of Callow. There’s injustice, but the House of Light is generally portrayed in text as an ameliorating factor. Now, look at the nations that bear the flag of Below: -old Praes, a brutal tyranny based on regular mass blood sacrifice, imperialist ambitions, and the racial subjugation of orcs and goblins, whose ruling class would make the worst Procerean noble squeamish. -the Kingdom of the Dead: fanatic theocracy run by an immortal tyrant. -the Underdark: Randian nightmare where the strong have their way with the weak -Strygia: brutal chattel slavery state -And, as much as I love it, Bellerophon is 1984 But With Psychic Police So, I think it clear that the societies devoted to Good are better places to live for the average or even below average person than those dedicated to Evil. Next, the chosen of Above and Below. Cat is extremely fond of (often correctly) pointing out the hypocrisy of Heroes. But that can mask the fact that Heroes are often people who do both virtuous and wicked things for noble reasons, whereas the Villains are usually just bad (Cat and perhaps Black and Malicia excluded). What Villain would, as the young Grey Pilgrim did, risk their life to cure the poor of plague? Read the chapter with the soon to be Exiled Prince and young Tyrant — does the former come across as anything but a genuinely caring man? Even the most ruthless heroes like the Saint of Swords are quite willing to lay down their lives for others. Now, outside of Cat, have any Villains shown anything like morality? Archer’s views are fresh in readers’ minds. Maesego and Warlock have no concern for the lives of those outside their immediate circles. Malicia is similar. And then we have the utterly monstrous: Diabolist, Tyrant, many of the old Dread Emperors, based on chapter quotes (and compare these quotes to those of Callowan Named like the Inkhand, deeply concerned with ethics and philosophy). The societies they promote and the standard bearers they choose demonstrate that there are major, fundamental differences between Above and Below. But this does that mean that Black and Cat’s broader argument is incorrect! It can be true that Good is objectively superior to Evil, and treating the entire world as a tool to win a debate still undermines Good’s moral standing. Even if Good does in some way want the best for people, that does not justify its treating those people as means to some other end — Good Itself never seems to risk or endanger its being, while it willingly sacrifices its Named and regular people.
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Jan 25, 2019 16:17
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How dare you impugn the moral correctness of Bellerophon, first and greatest of the Free Cities.Xun posted:So I started reading forge of destiny and my only complaint so far is Because Ling Qi is both straight and really bad at relationships. To be honest, it'd probably not go well even if she wasn't. Ling Qi in particular has some, uh, hang-ups about that sort of thing in particular. Players were not allowed to vote on it either, because they'd have absolutely gone for it.
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Jan 25, 2019 16:42
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Smiling Knight posted:Words I wish this forum had a “+1” feature, because this is a Good Post.
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Jan 25, 2019 17:10
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SerSpook posted:Because Ling Qi is both straight and really bad at relationships. To be honest, it'd probably not go well even if she wasn't. Ling Qi in particular has some, uh, hang-ups about that sort of thing in particular. Oh that's actually really disappointing that there wasn't a vote. I assumed there was one so I wasn't too upset but now I guess it's a bit weird. At least they writing handling it okay as far as I've read 
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Jan 25, 2019 17:45
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Xun posted:Oh that's actually really disappointing that there wasn't a vote. I assumed there was one so I wasn't too upset but now I guess it's a bit weird. At least they writing handling it okay as far as I've read Eh, I think it's fair for the preferences of the main character to not be up for a vote. A lot of that stuff really isn't in Forge of Destiny to be honest.
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Jan 25, 2019 17:53
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Smiling Knight posted:
How dare you? Irritant did nothing wrong! He was but a humble shoemaker!
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Jan 25, 2019 18:37
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Smiling Knight posted:I think the people arguing that Good and Evil are equivalent in PGtE are letting Cat and Black’s perspective blind them. Let’s run things down. Every word of this is both true and also completely applicable to Law vs Chaos in SMT. Law is objectively better for your average peon than Chaos in SMT. That doesn't change the fact that Law's response to people exercising their free will in a way it doesn't like is "You will use your free will the way we tell you to or we will take it away." EE can say it's actually good vs evil all they want, they're -writing- it exactly the same way that Law/Chaos in SMT is written, and that's what matters.
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Jan 25, 2019 18:49
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NinjaDebugger posted:Every word of this is both true and also completely applicable to Law vs Chaos in SMT. Law is objectively better for your average peon than Chaos in SMT. That doesn't change the fact that Law's response to people exercising their free will in a way it doesn't like is "You will use your free will the way we tell you to or we will take it away." I think that Black is the counter argument to this theory - his brand of Practical Evil is still considered to be Evil in the context of the metaphysics of the story, but is very much in line with moving away from Chaos and towards Law. But even with that shift, everyone in the story would still classify him as an Evil character. As the Bard said recently, he certainly isn’t a “favored son”, so presumably the folks down Below PREFER a good old fashioned Chaotic Stupid Villain, but even Lawful Evil is still Evil.
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Jan 25, 2019 18:58
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Silynt posted:I think that Black is the counter argument to this theory - his brand of Practical Evil is still considered to be Evil in the context of the metaphysics of the story, but is very much in line with moving away from Chaos and towards Law. But even with that shift, everyone in the story would still classify him as an Evil character. As the Bard said recently, he certainly isn’t a “favored son”, so presumably the folks down Below PREFER a good old fashioned Chaotic Stupid Villain, but even Lawful Evil is still Evil. The biggest thing distinguishing Good and Evil that I can think of in PracGuide is that Evil are almost always acting with their own personal desires in mind. Black has his own personal goal of up-ending the typical Good/Evil narrative, for example. Pretty much every "Good"-aligned person we've met has, instead, just been acting in pursuit of some greater concept/virtue. The only kind of weird exceptions to this are people like Archer (is she considered a hero or villain? if the former, she definitely doesn't fit the mold) or maybe Thief (though Thief could still be considered as being part of the Hero mold in that she mostly acts for the greater good of Callow or something). Xun posted:So I started reading forge of destiny and my only complaint so far is While painful to read, I actually liked that because it proved that the author was willing to maintain a coherence to their characters regardless of whether certain things might be fan-pleasers. It's also kinda neat that Ling Qi makes an effort to see if it's possible for her to reciprocate the feelings, but ends up realizing that it's completely impossible. One other thing I really liked is that (minor spoilers about how that plot thread progresses) , despite Ling Qi thinking "I'm happy I've cleared things up with Meizhen" like two or three separate times, the issue continues to bother Meizhen, even as late as near the end of the first year (when we get a Meizhen PoV chapter that mentions her continued difficulty with the situation). Which makes perfect sense; it's unrealistic for a teenager living in the same house as their crush (who still values them as a best friend) to magically get over their feelings just because it's convenient for the protagonist. All this being said, I think that Meizhen will likely be able to get over her crush in the second year. She was just really unlucky to be stuck in the same house as her crush, but it's very obvious that it's just a teenage crush/"falling in lust" situation and that it'll be possible for her to move on in the future. She's already shown some degree of interest in Cai Renxiang, which makes sense given both Cai and Ling Qi are more "handsome" than "pretty," which seems to be Meizhen's type (not that it's likely to be reciprocated, but it at least means she's open to other people). Oh! One thing I didn't notice at the time that is kind of funny in retrospect is that all that stuff with Meizhen wanting the necklace was actually Cui noticing Meizhen staring at some other girl's chest. That's why Meizhen got confused and then embarassed when Ling Qi brought it up. SerSpook posted:Eh, I think it's fair for the preferences of the main character to not be up for a vote. A lot of that stuff really isn't in Forge of Destiny to be honest. I feel like the author has some concrete ideas of Ling Qi's personality, and reader decisions are just capable of influencing the things she chooses to emphasize. edit: The characters are undeniably the strongest part of FoD IMO; I feel like pretty much every named character has their own interesting circumstances, even if Ling Qi never ends up learning of them. Like, I have no doubt that Han Fang has his own circumstances and backstory, but Ling Qi's own path just ended up not intersecting much with his. It makes the choices about who to spend time with a lot more compelling, because I trust the author to have something interesting to tell us about pretty much all of these characters. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jan 25, 2019 |
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Jan 25, 2019 23:00
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Ytlaya posted:While painful to read, I actually liked that because it proved that the author was willing to maintain a coherence to their characters regardless of whether certain things might be fan-pleasers. It's also kinda neat that Ling Qi makes an effort to see if it's possible for her to reciprocate the feelings, but ends up realizing that it's completely impossible. I like the cute gay snek girl and I hope things end up good for her
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Jan 25, 2019 23:25
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It's really only the Choirs who are insane blue and orange morality things. Most of the Good guys are genuinely good guys and most of the Evil guys are genuinely bad guys. Even Cat does some pretty lovely things. I honestly can't think of any Evil characters who aren't evil.
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Jan 26, 2019 09:17
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Also Cat's plan for dealing with the Saint of Swords is so incredibly stupid Edit: Actually nevermind it might not be
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Jan 26, 2019 09:23
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That's a pretty good banner ad for NAH.
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Jan 26, 2019 15:58
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