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punk rebel ecks posted:I keep trying to get people from CSPAM to come here but they keep saying that all the posters here are poor hating aristocrats. hi cspam poster here anyone who hopes for American intervention in their countries politics is a collosal dumbshit who's prolly gonna get droned because some cia dude things you buying a pack of smokes is an arms deal
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Jan 23, 2019 20:47
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In the current environment of right-wing governments surrounding Venezuela and the Trump administration backing this, you’re an absolute fool if you believe this won’t be a regression to the reactionary oligarchs who are far, far worse than Maduro.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:49
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Lightning Knight posted:The American government effectively just co-signed an attempted political coup. While you may wish to argue that they are justified in doing so, it is undeniable now that we have made ourselves involved. That's...not what I said. You are evaluating what is happening in another country in terms of how the US is involved, and not with any particular attention or knowledge of what is happening in that country. You're also getting the directionality of the coup backwards- Maduro executed a coup by attempting to bypass the legislature.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:50
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Lightning Knight posted:The American government effectively just co-signed an attempted political coup. While you may wish to argue that they are justified in doing so, it is undeniable now that we have made ourselves involved. So did Trudeau. Do you think he has a fascist agenda too? Extending diplomatic recognition to the most legitimate political figure in the country may not do much to help things, but it at least gives the military in Venezuela one more chance to do the right thing and stop supporting the dictator who's ruined their country. The military doesn't even have to overthrow him, they can just get out of the way and allow the people to make their choice heard.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:51
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Lightning Knight posted:While that may be true, that doesn't meant that they are acting in good faith or don't have ulterior motives. It really doesn't matter one bit whether Trump has good motivations here, this isn't something Trump did. Why do the people of Venezuela need to be ground into the dirt for the sake of decorum, in your view? Because that is what the framing you're using here is about. The bloodshed has been ongoing for years now. The entire country's social welfare system which was once very good is completely fallen apart. Majorian posted:It seems to me that doing nothing is the least-bad option though - particularly given the Trump Administration's stated support for regime change in the country. U.S. involvement on any level will not make this situation better. Sorry Venezuelans, you can't even start to get rid of the dictator that has torn away everything you had in 2010. Trump might vaguely like it before he gets distracted by his next Big Mac so nothing should ever be done. Lightning Knight posted:The American government effectively just co-signed an attempted political coup. If an American president got impeached, would you call that a political coup with the same evident disdain you're using the term with here?
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Jan 23, 2019 20:52
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Discendo Vox posted:That's...not what I said. You are evaluating what is happening in another country in terms of how the US is involved, and not with any particular attention or knowledge of what is happening in that country. You're also getting the directionality of the coup backwards- Maduro executed a coup by attempting to bypass the legislature. That last part seems like the core of the dispute. I don’t think it’s on the US to enforce the election laws in other countries, however. If the Russian government declared that Trump was illegitimate and that they think Hillary Clinton is the rightful president 3 years after 2016 that would not be a good thing even if Trump is human garbage.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:52
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The last country the us bombed was Libya and their main economic output is slaves now if the us gets heavily involved our military industrial complex will flay y'all alive and use your skin for seat covers on their private jets (your nipples will be a light switch) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 23, 2019 20:53
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fishmech posted:Sorry Venezuelans, you can't even start to get rid of the dictator that has torn away everything you had in 2010. Trump might vaguely like it before he gets distracted by his next Big Mac so nothing should ever be done. I said that the U.S. shouldn't intervene in any way, not that Venezuelans shouldn't overthrow Maduro, goofball. (although I do think it's unlikely that whoever replaces Maduro will be better)
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Jan 23, 2019 20:53
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Sinteres posted:So did Trudeau. Do you think he has a fascist agenda too? Extending diplomatic recognition to the most legitimate political figure in the country may not do much to help things, but it at least gives the military in Venezuela one more chance to do the right thing and stop supporting the dictator who's ruined their country. The military doesn't even have to overthrow him, they can just get out of the way and allow the people to make their choice heard. As a general rule, I think encouraging military coups in other countries is not a good thing. Especially given that usually when the US does this, we install people like Pinochet.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:54
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Agean90 posted:The last country the us bombed was Libya and their main economic output is slaves now if the us gets heavily involved our military industrial complex will flay y'all alive and use your skin for seat covers on their private jets (your nipples will be a light switch) Literally nobody itt has called on the US to intervene militarily. Lightning Knight posted:As a general rule, I think encouraging military coups in other countries is not a good thing. They're already ruled by a military dictatorship.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:54
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The events occurring in Venezuela are not about the United States. The US isn't enforcing the election law of another country, it's performing its obligations under the general principles of international law regarding the recognition of sovereign governments. I'm struggling here because you're glossing or simply wrong about enough different parts of the subject, simultaneously, that it's difficult to identify what order of correction to apply.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:56
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US supported coups in Latin America are good, a progressive, historical view of how liberals can applaud installing right-wing regimes.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:56
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Sinteres posted:They're already ruled by a military dictatorship. There are differing degrees of military dictatorship though. I imagine the Venezuelan people, on the whole, would prefer a Maduro to a Videla.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:56
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Discendo Vox posted:The US isn't enforcing the election law of another country, it's performing its obligations under the general principles of international law regarding the recognition of sovereign governments. This is a canned PR response at best that flies in the face of historical US actions in Latin America and buys into the fairy tale that any major military power gives a gently caress about international law except when it suits them.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:56
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Sinteres posted:Literally nobody itt has called on the US to intervene militarily. Well, as of yet. The WH is saying they are "keeping options open" but actual invasion rhetoric is still on the fringe with the old Iraq War neo-con #neverTrumpers. Hope it doesn't catch on though I agree that Maduro has to go but I can see some people having justified concerns over a coup backed by a far-right US POTUS in South America, as those things haven't gone historically well. Hope this other guy actually turns out legit. Feldegast42 fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Jan 23, 2019 |
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Jan 23, 2019 20:57
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You all can rationalize anything and it’s amazing. If there is US military intervention if and when this poo poo sparks massive internal unrest and violence, the liberal hawks in this thread will 100% find a way to spin it as a regretful necessity.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:57
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How popular is Trump in Latin America? I would think Trump's endorsement would do more harm than good here but Brazil elected Bolsonaro so ???
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Jan 23, 2019 20:58
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Lightning Knight posted:This is a canned PR response at best that flies in the face of historical US actions in Latin America and buys into the fairy tale that any major military power gives a gently caress about international law except when it suits them. Do you think Trudeau signed on because he wants right wing death squads to kill more Veneuzelans than Maduro would starve too?
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Jan 23, 2019 20:58
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Sinteres posted:Literally nobody itt has called on the US to intervene militarily. Word cause the post right after yours has someone giving the war for freedom response after the current us admin said it's willing to escalate
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Jan 23, 2019 20:59
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I'll readily cop to being very ignorant of the opposition to Maduro, who I recognize has behaved like an illegitimate autocrat. But history has been a very good guide about the track record of coups backed by far-right North Atlantic governments, so I'm going to assume the worst from them. Edit: You really could scratch "far-right" out of my sentence and it remains true.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:59
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Sinteres posted:Do you think Trudeau signed on because he wants right wing death squads to kill more Veneuzelans than Maduro would starve too? Trudeau is a piece of poo poo so you bringing him up as some moral arbiter of international law is very rich.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:59
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Sinteres posted:Do you think Trudeau signed on because he wants right wing death squads to kill more Veneuzelans than Maduro would starve too? You don't understand, Sinteres. Other countries, other information, those things aren't relevant. It's about what the US does, and how wrong it is.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:59
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Bae Trudeau wouldn’t do bad thing!!!
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Jan 23, 2019 20:59
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THS posted:You all can rationalize anything and it’s amazing. If there is US military intervention if and when this poo poo sparks massive internal unrest and violence, the liberal hawks in this thread will 100% find a way to spin it as a regretful necessity. You're already spinning Venezuela being starved as a regretful necessity, so the imaginary liberal hawks you're strawmanning will have your post history to provide them with the template.
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Jan 23, 2019 21:00
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Sinteres posted:Do you think Trudeau signed on because he wants right wing death squads to kill more Veneuzelans than Maduro would starve too? Trudeau sells weapons to the Saudis.
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Jan 23, 2019 21:00
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Sinteres posted:Do you think Trudeau signed on because he wants right wing death squads to kill more Veneuzelans than Maduro would starve too? Dunno you think they helped turn Libya into a failed state cause he like giving theocratic militias more areas to operate in?
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Jan 23, 2019 21:00
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Sinteres posted:Do you think Trudeau signed on because he wants right wing death squads to kill more Veneuzelans than Maduro would starve too? I expect he'd certainly welcome more favorable trade relations with Venezuela.
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Jan 23, 2019 21:00
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If you're trying the argument of goons will immediately shift to support military intervention other people have already that song and dance so you should just give it a rest
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Jan 23, 2019 21:00
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Sinteres posted:Do you think Trudeau signed on because he wants right wing death squads to kill more Veneuzelans than Maduro would starve too? I think Trudeau signed on because Canada is a US ally that generally follows the US foreign policy line.
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Jan 23, 2019 21:01
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Sinteres posted:You're already spinning Venezuela being starved as a regretful necessity, so the imaginary liberal hawks you're strawmanning will have your post history to provide them with the template. Who's saying it's a necessity, or even that Maduro isn't bad? I think we all agree Maduro's bad; the question is just whether or not he'd be replaced by someone worse. (which is not unlikely, given the way Latin American history tends to play out)
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Jan 23, 2019 21:01
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Imagine looks ng at the past 20 years of us military actions and thinking anything good will happen.
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Jan 23, 2019 21:02
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No matter what your opinions are on Maduro or the legitimacy of the opposition, the US is absolutely going to use this as an excuse for intervention https://twitter.com/ReutersVzla/status/1088149867367673856
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Jan 23, 2019 21:02
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Pablo Nergigante posted:No matter what your opinions are on Maduro or the legitimacy of the opposition, the US is absolutely going to use this as an excuse for intervention The US says all options are on the table about everything. Bush, Obama and Trump have all said it about Iran a billion times and we never invaded Iran.
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Jan 23, 2019 21:03
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ChaseSP posted:If you're trying the argument of goons will immediately shift to support military intervention other people have already that song and dance so you should just give it a rest considering this is a clear escalation in an environment full of freakish US neocons and insane reactionary governments in Latin America, I think the support of right wing oligarchs trying to assert political control in Venezuela is very short sighted!
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Jan 23, 2019 21:03
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Sinteres posted:The US says all options are on the table about everything. Bush, Obama and Trump have all said it about Iran a billion times and we never invaded Iran. That's right, there's always economic warfare and being a state sponsor of terrorism too in the playbook.
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Jan 23, 2019 21:04
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Sinteres posted:The US says all options are on the table about everything. Bush, Obama and Trump have all said it about Iran a billion times and we never invaded Iran. Oh thank god, good thing Bush and Obama didn’t invade anyone weaker than Iran. You’re awful dude.
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Jan 23, 2019 21:04
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Literally propaganda Maduro uses that any opposition are far right radicals rather than poor people tired of mass corruption.
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Jan 23, 2019 21:04
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Sinteres posted:The US says all options are on the table about everything. Bush, Obama and Trump have all said it about Iran a billion times and we never invaded Iran. Trump has repeatedly suggested invading Venezuela to his staff, though.
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Jan 23, 2019 21:05
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Good thing someone succeeded in getting cspam posters to show up and turn this into a referendum on the US rather than anything having to do with Venezuela.
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Jan 23, 2019 21:05
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ChaseSP posted:Literally propaganda Maduro uses that any opposition are far right radicals rather than poor people tired of mass corruption. https://twitter.com/MikePrysner/sta...6pagenumber%3D3 'poor people tired of mass corruption'
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Jan 23, 2019 21:06
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