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Furia posted:Yes, because, again, we cannot make our own decisions Who ITT is keeping you from making your own decisions?
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Jan 23, 2019 22:20
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Furia posted:Yes, because, again, we cannot make our own decisions and so definitely need you to intervene in our country and make the decision for us In a better world you could pretend like the two things aren’t going to be inextricably linked.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:21
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:the habit is to apologize for all the dirty poo poo done to latin america citation needed CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:pretending the current destabilization isn't an intervention in the same mold. Oh I remember you now. You are the noble savages guy. How you doin?
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Jan 23, 2019 22:22
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:This isn't a thread about romania, but its clear that Americans are addicted to WWII-style subversion of governments they find undesirable, with disastrous results. As I have said probably dozens of times in this thread, the habit is to apologize for all the dirty poo poo done to latin america while pretending like the current destabilization isn't an intervention in the same mold. You might as well link the article for everyone else to read. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/future-development/2018/06/05/romania-thriving-cities-rural-poverty-and-a-trust-deficit/
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Jan 23, 2019 22:22
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THS posted:In a better world you could pretend like the two things aren’t going to be inextricably linked. Poor people better starve then I guess
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Jan 23, 2019 22:22
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fnox posted:The problem here is that you don’t possibly understand how bad things are. Whatever you think may happen with a right wing government is already occurring, seriously, just take one loving look at the country and you can see that really the worst we can get is just more of the same. I'm absolutely not in the way of anything. I'm posting that the U.S. should not intervene in Venezuela, on a dead comedy forum. The only thing keeping you from politically acting is you. Go out and protest! Stop whining! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 23, 2019 22:23
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Majorian posted:I'm absolutely not in the way of anything. I'm posting that the U.S. should not intervene in Venezuela, on a dead comedy forum. The only thing keeping you from politically acting is you. Go out and protest! Stop whining! We have now reached the “triggered, liberal?” portion of fake leftist regressing to their true republican selves
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Jan 23, 2019 22:23
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Maduro's speech is over, and the only concrete announcement he made is that he's breaking diplomatic ties with the US and kicking out consular staff. He also looked extremely plump: https://twitter.com/CalibreObscura/status/1088178593916772353 He droned on about nonsense in his usual way. I'd say that the speech was noteworthy in how passive it was, specially given what happened today. I think he only mentioned Guaido a couple of times. If Guaido doesn't get arrested in the next few days, I think that the regime will just try to ignore this since it still has full control of the military and the Supreme Court. It's going to be hard to ignore it given that a growing list of countries are recognizing Guaido as the president, but it might be their best bet.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:24
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Furia posted:We have now reached the “triggered, liberal?” portion of fake leftist regressing to their true republican selves That's not even close to what I was saying. Seriously, I'm perplexed - how are leftists ITT stopping you from doing anything? How are we taking choices away from you?
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Jan 23, 2019 22:24
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so how many wmds are in venezuela
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Jan 23, 2019 22:24
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Majorian posted:I'm absolutely not in the way of anything. I'm posting that the U.S. should not intervene in Venezuela, on a dead comedy forum. The only thing keeping you from politically acting is you. Go out and protest! Stop whining! He would but he lives in western europe. Kind of like how the loudest korean right wingers and the most ardent pro-taiwanese independence activists live in the US.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:25
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Furia posted:Poor people better starve then I guess It can always get worse and I can guarantee that the US government will try its best to gently caress up Venezuela beyond your wildest imaginations. There’s a fantastic track record.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:25
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Majorian posted:Maduro's part of his legacy to some degree, but it's misleading to just outright say, "Maduro is part of Chavez's legacy." You have to contextualize it more than that. Maduro has hardly just been a posthumous cipher for Chavez's zombie-brain. Maduro was Chavez's handpicked successor, so yeah, he's part of his legacy. So is Venezuela's descent into authoritarianism and the skyrocketing murder rate.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:25
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Furia posted:citation needed are you the venezuelan version of the cuban plantation owners living in miami
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Jan 23, 2019 22:25
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Majorian posted:I'm absolutely not in the way of anything. I'm posting that the U.S. should not intervene in Venezuela, on a dead comedy forum. The only thing keeping you from politically acting is you. Go out and protest! Stop whining! What do you mean by "intervene"? There are a whole lot of interpretations to that word. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in this thread who wants the US to invade. All most of us want is for Maduro to piss off and for Venezuela to once again resemble at least something of a functioning society.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:27
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Holy poo poo Maduro ate all the Venezuelans
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Jan 23, 2019 22:28
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 Its fun seeing all the tankies come out to defend a kleptocracy and not realize just how awful everything is there when they say a new government 'could be even worse'.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:30
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Giggle Goose posted:What do you mean by "intervene"? There are a whole lot of interpretations to that word. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in this thread who wants the US to invade. All most of us want is for Maduro to piss off and for Venezuela to once again resemble at least something of a functioning society. Which is fine, I think that's perfectly reasonable. But then I see posts like this... fnox posted:See the problem Venezuelan posters in this thread have with most international leftists is that they have done absolutely loving nothing but complain about any possible attempt to alleviate our situation despite repeated cries for help. We’re having to rely on Trump of all loving people to get anything done, because nobody on the left wants to help. I don’t know what else are you expecting us civilians to do against a military dictatorship. ...and again, I wonder what sort of help we're expected to provide.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:31
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Themage posted:are you the venezuelan version of the cuban plantation owners living in miami I'm under the impression that its members of the PSUV that tend to have property in miami.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:31
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Pharohman777 posted:
Fun seeing all the liberal hawks ignore the last 50 years of history because this time it’s different.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:31
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Negrostrike posted:They suffer from whitesaviorisis, poor things. I'm pretty sure these conversations are so consistently bad is that people like Lighting Knight and Majorian aren't even really trying to talk about Venezuela at all. How can they? They don't know enough to have coherent opinions. The reason there's such an obnoxious tendency for threads like this to constantly turn to the subject of the United States is that it is what most of the posters know about and most directly relates to them.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:31
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THS posted:It can always get worse and I can guarantee that the US government will try its best to gently caress up Venezuela beyond your wildest imaginations. There’s a fantastic track record. As has been pointed out multiple times in this thread, if the US wanted to "gently caress up Venezuela" they could absolutely destroy whats left of its economy simply by no longer purchasing Venezuelan oil. If they want to gently caress it up so bad, why don't they just do this?
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Jan 23, 2019 22:33
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Squalid posted:I'm pretty sure these conversations are so consistently bad is that people like Lighting Knight and Majorian aren't even really trying to talk about Venezuela at all. How can they? They don't know enough to have coherent opinions. The reason there's such an obnoxious tendency for threads like this to constantly turn to the subject of the United States is that it is what most of the posters know about and most directly relates to them. I, too, believe that talking about the President of the U.S.' wish to invade Venezuela, which he has expressed multiple times, has nothing to do with Venezuela.  Giggle Goose posted:As has been pointed out multiple times in this thread, if the US wanted to "gently caress up Venezuela" they could absolutely destroy whats left of its economy simply by no longer purchasing Venezuelan oil. If they want to gently caress it up so bad, why don't they just do this? Because loving up Venezuela isn't the actual endgame. The endgame is to establish more favorable trade relations with Venezuela, and have a pro-U.S. person in charge. We just have a pretty long record of turning the countries we do this to into wastelands.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:33
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Giggle Goose posted:As has been pointed out multiple times in this thread, if the US wanted to "gently caress up Venezuela" they could absolutely destroy whats left of its economy simply by no longer purchasing Venezuelan oil. If they want to gently caress it up so bad, why don't they just do this? because we need oil
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Jan 23, 2019 22:35
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THS posted:Fun seeing all the liberal hawks ignore the last 50 years of history because this time it’s different. Maduro's government is so evil it is rejecting all offers of medical aid or donations of medicine. That's how bad the situation is. 'It could get even worse' kinda doesn't apply here because everything is at rock bottom.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:35
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THS posted:because we need oil The US has got plenty of oil thanks to fracking and such, its part of the reason the oil price collapsed. Venezuelan oil is really lovely and hard to refine, why would the US need it when its got lots of its own oil now?
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Jan 23, 2019 22:38
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Pharohman777 posted:Maduro's government is so evil it is rejecting all offers of medical aid or donations of medicine. Remember, offers of medical aid and donations of medicine are intervention and Maduro is just trying to keep the US from intervening in Venezuela.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:38
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Majorian posted:That's not even close to what I was saying. Seriously, I'm perplexed - how are leftists ITT stopping you from doing anything? How are we taking choices away from you? Keep invading a safe space you are not welcome in with the implicit threat that You are a republican Themage posted:are you the venezuelan version of the cuban plantation owners living in miami No, I’m not. I’m a regular guy, like a lot of people in this thread are. Nevermind that you are using a line used by “race realists” to discount blm protests, I’m sure that you have the best intentions at heart and are “just asking questions”
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Jan 23, 2019 22:39
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Pharohman777 posted:The US has got plenty of oil thanks to fracking and such, its part of the reason the oil price collapsed. Venezuelan oil is really lovely and hard to refine, why would the US need it when its got lots of its own oil now? Plenty of US refineries still rely on Venezuela crude oil. Fracking is for natural gas.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:40
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THS posted:because we need oil the us became a net exporter of oil last year shale, baby
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Jan 23, 2019 22:41
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Majorian posted:I'm absolutely not in the way of anything. I'm posting that the U.S. should not intervene in Venezuela, on a dead comedy forum. The only thing keeping you from politically acting is you. Go out and protest! Stop whining! I can't, because back then, when I could participate because I was in country, nobody from the outside backed the opposition. I protested, I was out with my UCV friends, and absolutely nothing happened because international players just downplayed everything and brought us to the standstill we have been in for the past couple of years. Now, my entire family has been displaced, almost every person that I knew is one of the nearly 3 million Venezuelans that have left the country due to Maduro. For the first time in 40 years, my grandmother can't visit my grandfather's grave on their anniversary, because she now lives in exile, forcibly removed from the country she had called home for the last 86 years because we just can't find medicine for her anymore. So loving excuse me if I wanna take my chances with someone other than that piece of poo poo, but I have a stake in this game greater than just owning some tankies in a dead comedy forum.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:41
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Furia posted:Keep invading a safe space you are not welcome in with the implicit threat that Are you drunk? karthun posted:Remember, offers of medical aid and donations of medicine are intervention To be clear, I don't believe this at all, and I do think Maduro is a horrible, corrupt ghoul. If Venezuelans want to overthrow him, that's 100% their prerogative. fnox posted:I can't, because back then, when I could participate because I was in country, nobody from the outside backed the opposition. I protested, I was out with my UCV friends, and absolutely nothing happened because international players just downplayed everything and brought us to the standstill we have been in for the past couple of years. Okay, well, I'm legit sorry to hear that, that really sucks. But you have to admit, it's not me or leftists on a dead comedy forum keeping you from participating in your country's politics. To put it super-mildly, that's hyperbole.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:41
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I'm a middle class American who has never left the mainland, and I'm going to tell posters who are actually from Venezuela how things in their country really are.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:43
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Pharohman777 posted:
They sit around defending leaders carrying out Ronald Reagan's dream in terms of economics and social issues in other parts of the world, so of course they also gotta defend people carrying out Ronald Reagan's dream for South American juntas. Giggle Goose posted:As has been pointed out multiple times in this thread, if the US wanted to "gently caress up Venezuela" they could absolutely destroy whats left of its economy simply by no longer purchasing Venezuelan oil. If they want to gently caress it up so bad, why don't they just do this? Not even a matter of not purchasing Venezeulan oil. VZ could get by with that. What would be killer to VZ would be refusing to allow export of refined oil products back to the country, since the country is almost entirely dependent on sourcing refined oil products from US refineries. Majorian posted:Because loving up Venezuela isn't the actual endgame. The endgame is to establish more favorable trade relations with Venezuela, and have a pro-U.S. person in charge. We just have a pretty long record of turning the countries we do this to into wastelands. The US is already entirely free to import the only thing the US wants from the country. The US is also free to export all it wants to VZ more or less, but no one in Venezuela can afford to import anymore if they aren't part of the kleptocracy. Where is the "more favorable trade relations" supposed to come in here? Also Maduro already turned the country into a wasteland, need we point that out again?
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Jan 23, 2019 22:45
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Majorian posted:sorry to hear that, that really sucks. But you have to admit, it's not me or leftists on a dead comedy forum keeping you from participating in your country's politics. To put it super-mildly, that's hyperbole. If you ever feel like doing the bare minimum as a human being and actually show some loving empathy, I’d like you to know that words have value to the people they are directed at. If minorities repeatedly tell you that what you are saying is loving stupid, your decision to continue to say it is political
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Jan 23, 2019 22:46
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fishmech posted:
Which, as you and others have said, occurred because Chavez and his scrub-tier successor never bothered to invest capital into their own refineries when times were flush.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:49
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Furia posted:If you ever feel like doing the bare minimum as a human being and actually show some loving empathy, I’d like you to know that words have value to the people they are directed at. If minorities repeatedly tell you that what you are saying is loving stupid, your decision to continue to say it is political This is some pretty tortured logic. Saying that Trump shouldn't invade Venezuela is not some sort of microaggression.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:49
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Hold on hold on; is there officially a coup/civil war going on now? Is the US intervening officially?
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Jan 23, 2019 22:51
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Minister of Defense Vladimir Padrino Lopez has sent a tweet backing Maduro: https://twitter.com/vladimirpadrino/status/1088185917410603008 "The soldiers of the homeland do not accept a president who has been placed by the shadow of obscure interests or self-proclaimed outside of the law."
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Jan 23, 2019 22:52
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Does Colombia have a worse human rights record than Venezuela?
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Jan 23, 2019 22:52
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