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One of the malls here is owned by a local company and theyre sitting at 100% occupancy because they packed it full of cheaper retailers because rich people don't go to the loving mall
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Jan 23, 2019 17:50
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I just want mall arcades to make a comeback 
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Jan 23, 2019 23:55
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Freakazoid_ posted:I just want mall arcades to make a comeback Arcade Bars are where its at. https://www.updownarcadebar.com/minneapolis/
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Jan 24, 2019 00:00
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FCKGW posted:My local mall is supper busy and nearly full of tenants but they seems to have adapted to the changing landscapes. The major anchors pulled out so they got filled with discount retailers like Marshalls, Used furniture stores, and they have lots of outlets/dollar stores like Five Below. Good mix where you have a Victorias Secret next to a Bose outlet next to a Uniqlo. Place is still packed every weekend. I feel that the future of brick and mortar is either discount or high end (maybe even in the same space like your local mall) but very little in between which I think reflects in the struggles of sort of "mid market" retailers like Gymboree or J Crew. Also Rainforest Cafe is loving disgusting and pox on the land.
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Jan 24, 2019 00:05
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Freakazoid_ posted:I just want mall arcades to make a comeback I have two arcades in my town, but man I would love for someone to put up an old school internet PC club for gaming. I used to go to a place that had like 8 pcs hooked up in a lan and they hosted cs tournaments all the time. To face off against your fps opponents, in the flesh, what a time to be alive that was.
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Jan 24, 2019 01:39
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Malls are really ficking hard to remodel for anything else due to the circular support system and little to no middle support . You have to get a structural engineer to redesign the building and theyre gonna take a fat %.
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Jan 24, 2019 03:41
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Proud Christian Mom posted:One of the malls here is owned by a local company and theyre sitting at 100% occupancy because they packed it full of cheaper retailers because rich people don't go to the loving mall It seems like physically filling a mall isn't hard as long as it's open, the clearly failing mall near me doesn't have many stores that are actually shut, but a ton of them have real businesses clearly replaced by local nobodies selling stuff like seashells they glued to picture frames and other gimmicky single product stores like calendars. Things that would have been a kiosk but now are a full store because it's easier to just lower rent and try to keep the mall looking full than it is to try and keep people going with half the doors shut and locked.
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Jan 24, 2019 04:01
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Near where my mum lives there were 3 malls: a small one, medium-sized one and a large one (for the region). The medium one, which I have some fond memories attached to, was torn down years ago and is now a strip mall with a Super Target, though to be fair I kind of like Super Target as they are like Walmart but not as sad. The large one still seems to be doing fairly well and has at most one or two empty shops out of dozens. The small one is still open, but it recently lost an anchor store from the Bon Ton "family" and has more empty shops than open ones, including a "food court" made up of I believe a pretzel shop and an Enzo's pizza. As anti-capitalism as I am and as much as I disdain the low-paying McJobs that infest those places, it still makes me sad to see things like that.
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Jan 24, 2019 04:13
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while back I took a walk through the mall I used to play street fighter in as a kid, hadn't been in there for a decade I guess, and it was very depressing. mostly cell phone kiosks and lovely clothing stores, a Dillards still clinging to life somehow. to drive the point home the mall audio system played a song from one of my favorite records from my teen years. that haunted dying place wanted to remind me of own mortality, a cursed experience.
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Jan 24, 2019 04:25
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:It seems like physically filling a mall isn't hard as long as it's open, the clearly failing mall near me doesn't have many stores that are actually shut, but a ton of them have real businesses clearly replaced by local nobodies selling stuff like seashells they glued to picture frames and other gimmicky single product stores like calendars. Things that would have been a kiosk but now are a full store because it's easier to just lower rent and try to keep the mall looking full than it is to try and keep people going with half the doors shut and locked. And in typical commercial rent calculations they are only renting the front of the store and not the store room behind it that would normally come with.......even though they definitely have access to and are using the store room. Because all that matters on commercial loans is keeping up that price per square foot so you can get the next refi and not so much the vacancy rate.
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Jan 24, 2019 04:58
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Motronic posted:And in typical commercial rent calculations they are only renting the front of the store and not the store room behind it that would normally come with.......even though they definitely have access to and are using the store room. Because all that matters on commercial loans is keeping up that price per square foot so you can get the next refi and not so much the vacancy rate. Vacancy matters in that the customers can see it and it looks extremely bad. Having empty stores and becoming the abandoned mall is a pretty bad death spiral and something you'd want to avoid. I have doubts that the store selling homemade shell covered picture frames is making the same sort of profit that the american eagle that used to be there did, and I doubt that it pays the same rate of rent that it did either, but it makes sense to have that rather than just a big closed store with nothing in it. In hopes keeping the mall viable can attract something in the future or to keep foot traffic to the better stores by making the mall seem not totally dead and abandoned.
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Jan 24, 2019 05:07
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Vacancy matters in that the customers can see it and it looks extremely bad. Having empty stores and becoming the abandoned mall is a pretty bad death spiral and something you'd want to avoid. I have doubts that the store selling homemade shell covered picture frames is making the same sort of profit that the american eagle that used to be there did, and I doubt that it pays the same rate of rent that it did either, but it makes sense to have that rather than just a big closed store with nothing in it. In hopes keeping the mall viable can attract something in the future or to keep foot traffic to the better stores by making the mall seem not totally dead and abandoned. I totally get that, but I'm not talking about customer perceptions or the profit these stores are making. This was a commentary on commercial finance and how it plays into dying malls, and how the game is played as I understand it from friends who are commercial developers/owners. They are always looking for their next loan, and price per square foot is the key metric so they will play games with that. The American Eagle that used to take up 2000 sq. ft? Just put up a partition wall and have the shells-guled-to-frames seller occupy the front 200 sq. ft at 10% of that rent. DONE. This math somehow works out for now. Even when the partition wall doesn't really exist in many cases.
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Jan 24, 2019 05:21
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DrNutt posted:I have two arcades in my town, but man I would love for someone to put up an old school internet PC club for gaming. I used to go to a place that had like 8 pcs hooked up in a lan and they hosted cs tournaments all the time. To face off against your fps opponents, in the flesh, what a time to be alive that was. My mall seems to have something like this now. I haven't gone in (I only see it because the dying Sears means I can't go through it to leave) but it looks like a wall of flatscreens playing fortnight or BLOPS or whatever with couches in front. quote:I totally get that, but I'm not talking about customer perceptions or the profit these stores are making. This was a commentary on commercial finance and how it plays into dying malls, and how the game is played as I understand it from friends who are commercial developers/owners. They are always looking for their next loan, and price per square foot is the key metric so they will play games with that. The American Eagle that used to take up 2000 sq. ft? Just put up a partition wall and have the shells-guled-to-frames seller occupy the front 200 sq. ft at 10% of that rent. DONE. This math somehow works out for now. Even when the partition wall doesn't really exist in many cases.
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Jan 24, 2019 06:42
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Zachack posted:My mall seems to have something like this now. I haven't gone in (I only see it because the dying Sears means I can't go through it to leave) but it looks like a wall of flatscreens playing fortnight or BLOPS or whatever with couches in front. https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/11/27/the-paradox-of-persistent-vacancies-and-high-prices
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Jan 24, 2019 12:20
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Freakazoid_ posted:I just want mall arcades to make a comeback My local mall recently had an anchor store go out of business, and they converted the entire space into a giant arcade/bowling alley/bar, and every time I've been there it's been completely packed. Hundreds of arcade machines, ranging from fighting game classics to brand new stuff. It's breathed a lot of life into the mall. The company running the arcade is called Round One, they're from Japan and have recently started opening arcades like this in malls across the US. Hopefully they'll expand to your area soon as well!
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Jan 24, 2019 14:26
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https://www.round1usa.com/location/ Wow, I count 11 listed as "coming 2019", nice.
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Jan 24, 2019 15:33
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Zachack posted:My mall seems to have something like this now. I haven't gone in (I only see it because the dying Sears means I can't go through it to leave) but it looks like a wall of flatscreens playing fortnight or BLOPS or whatever with couches in front. That reminded me of something from my childhood. The big electronics place that we'd shop at every so often had a sitting area with a TV and consoles. It was the actual game discs and cartridges, too, not just the demos some places have now. So you could just hang out over there while waiting for everyone else to finish shopping, or do a little "try before you buy" without paying a rental fee.
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Jan 24, 2019 15:44
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Spazzle posted:https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/11/27/the-paradox-of-persistent-vacancies-and-high-prices Things like this really reinforce my growing suspicion that The Glorious Free MarketTM cannot solve the growing residential housing crisis either.
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Jan 24, 2019 16:37
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skooma512 posted:Maybe they’ll adapt and become residential real estate or indoor farmers markets, things people actually like. That’s what England did with most of its churches.
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Jan 24, 2019 16:43
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Spazzle posted:https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/11/27/the-paradox-of-persistent-vacancies-and-high-prices exhibit no. 853096 of how utterly broken our banking system is and why we should have knocked this bitch to the ground in 2008
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Jan 24, 2019 17:09
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If I ever make it rich I am going to buy a mall and make it a go-kart paintball arena.
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Jan 24, 2019 22:36
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Alterian posted:If I ever make it rich I am going to buy a mall and make it a go-kart paintball arena. With the way malls are going you may only need to collect the change in your sofa cushions to make this a reality.
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Jan 24, 2019 23:09
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Alterian posted:If I ever make it rich I am going to buy a mall and make it a go-kart paintball arena. Make sure they’re combined, make mini versions of the poo poo from Halo (warthog? It’s been years since i’ve played) and have people driving around shooting each other with paintballs.
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Jan 25, 2019 00:53
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JustJeff88 posted:Things like this really reinforce my growing suspicion that The Glorious Free MarketTM cannot solve the growing residential housing crisis either. 
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Jan 25, 2019 02:03
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I read a very good article about it, possibly on Jacobin, but I forgot to bookmark it and I can't find it again. Housing is no joke. Apparently the former Prime Minster of New Zealand, John Key, basically ignored that issue during the last general election in NZ and his party lost their control of parliament because of it.
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Jan 25, 2019 02:06
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Heard on the news that SF might introduce a tax on vacant storefronts to "encourage" landlords to keep them full.
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Jan 25, 2019 07:43
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Schubalts posted:That reminded me of something from my childhood. The big electronics place that we'd shop at every so often had a sitting area with a TV and consoles. It was the actual game discs and cartridges, too, not just the demos some places have now. So you could just hang out over there while waiting for everyone else to finish shopping, or do a little "try before you buy" without paying a rental fee. That's kind of a thing still, at least over here in Norway - the electronics chain stores sell PC gaming gear and computers, and most have a bunch of usable computers set up. It's fairly common to see kids playing Fortnite or whatever there in the afternoon, and that feels like the same sort of "not entirely intended but tolerated for a while" thing as hanging around and playing console games used to be. (I can only hope they remember to log out their gaming accounts when they leave.) Computer viking fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Jan 25, 2019 |
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Jan 25, 2019 09:21
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PT6A posted:Make sure they’re combined, make mini versions of the poo poo from Halo (warthog? It’s been years since i’ve played) and have people driving around shooting each other with paintballs. I was thinking of two person go-karts so you would have a driver and a gunner. I could rent it out for corporate team building events.
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Jan 25, 2019 09:58
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skooma512 posted:Maybe they’ll adapt and become residential real estate or indoor farmers markets, things people actually like. I saw one nearby that got bought by a local community college for class space. Seems to have worked pretty well.
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Jan 25, 2019 12:26
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I'm seeing a lot of franchise churches (like Elevation) setting up in storefronts and other commercial space.
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Jan 25, 2019 15:22
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Let me reiterate. American Christians worship God in strip malls.
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Jan 26, 2019 12:32
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anonumos posted:Let me reiterate. American Christians worship God in strip malls. Yeah, watching one wing of my local failing mall slowly morph into a church and several subsidiary businesses over the years is wild. Interested to see what Sears shutting down will do to it, but not interested enough to go to the mall. 
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Jan 26, 2019 13:14
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Wanna see what happens with two rival churches setting up in the same mall. Might be a fun sitcom.
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Jan 26, 2019 13:25
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Wanna see what happens with two rival churches setting up in the same mall. Keeping the Faith / Mall rats crossover
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Jan 28, 2019 02:12
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Wanna see what happens with two rival churches setting up in the same mall. Frequently, the megachurch actually owns the mall as part of a real estate cutout. It works great because their worshippers effectively double-subsidize when they shop in the area after they pray.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:36
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Discendo Vox posted:Frequently, the megachurch actually owns the mall as part of a real estate cutout. It works great because their worshippers effectively double-subsidize when they shop in the area after they pray. Wow that sounds like exactly the sort of thing Jesus would love, doesn't it now??? Almost as much as I'm sure He loves the payday lenders advertising on the local Christian TV station 
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Jan 28, 2019 20:03
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PT6A posted:Wow that sounds like exactly the sort of thing Jesus would love, doesn't it now??? Almost as much as I'm sure He loves the payday lenders advertising on the local Christian TV station This is why I brought it up. Jesus would be furious.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:09
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I think I'm underselling this. Let me try to give the issue some scale; let's talk about Seacoast. The below is the result of some googling I did last year when someone asked me to try to identify people who were backing confederate apologist groups in SC. Seacoast is a megachurch located in South Carolina. It's popular across all income levels and races, but principally caters to the comfortably wealthy and white. It forms a major locus of public, political and social thought among Charleston voters, particularly politically influential exurbs. Republican Senator Tim Scott is a prominent member of the church. It is fundamentalist and very conservative, but they don't burn crosses - they inspire brand loyalty. (This whole vein of research was a dead end, btw- there was no sign that the church was associated with the revanchist group I was looking at). Here's a picture of their original "campus". It seats about 1,300, but they're expanding it to seat 2,400 soon- and they have a number of other campuses and a tele-church program.  For scale, that footprint is about 2000 feet long, according to google maps. There's a main street to the immediate north, and a weird side entrance in the west, going...somewhere, from the parking area. What is that? Well...  All of the yellow areas are areas I know are currently owned or under negotiation for purchase by Seacoast. That street leading out of their parking lot? It goes directly to a shopping center, with an immediately joining apartment complex behind it to the South. The shopping center is owned by Seacoast, managed through an entity called "American Asset Corporation". The apartment complex (which has only exits going past the church and shopping center) is also owned by Seacoast. On the north side of the main road, there is a more disjointed area of commercial offices, law firms, and fast food joints. A Chik-fil-a just moved in (of course). Seacoast owns all of that property too, aside from some small detached dwellings owned by African American families. These families have lived in the area since before Seacoast existed, and are now hoping to sell their properties to the church for enough to greatly improve their situation. Seacoast is beginning to close the properties in this northern section; they are consolidating them into a new shopping center. You may have noticed a yellow line going out of the map to the northwest. What is that? Well...  That triangle in yellow is a residential development connected to all the neighboring properties by a narrow road, called "Seacoast Parkway". You might be wondering why it's called that. Seacoast used to own it, and were going to build a 6,000 capacity megachurch there, along with their own planned community with residential and commercial development. The local government blocked it (the whole thing has one narrow road in or out, which, well, it's an area that sees frequent, massive flooding- you do the math). Seacoast sold the real estate to another developer instead, who still built a neighborhood there. (there's another property at the northwest corner there I'm excluding for the moment). You may have noticed the massive industrial looking-thing in the Southwest. Well...no, that's the port of Charleston. I don't think Seacoast owns that. But, well...  I believe Seacoast currently or previously has had controlling interests in all of the areas in blue. This includes most commercial properties serving the port. It also includes the residential properties, where I believe the church used to own the property, and now maintain control through an agreement with the developer that controls the HOA. This includes that real estate in the northwest corner, which is cut off from the rest of the area by floodplains and is connected by a single, two lane road that goes under the highway, in a flood zone, then loops through the rest of the office and commercial properties to connect to an escape route. The properties Seacoast has or currently holds It may also include the public and private schools and community center that are attached to the central north neighborhood, which is wealthy and has a heavy Seacoast attendee population. I don't have public news coverage of these forms of control or purchase like I do the things in yellow, but it would explain the rate and form of land development in the area...over the course of at least 30 years, as part of a planned development and investment approach that would have occurred at the same time that Seacoast was formed. Seacoast has another, similar campus set up near the other major port in the Charleston area. This is probably not a coincidence. All of this is to say that retail should always be understood partially in terms of real estate ownership, because that scale of institutional investment and control will gladly set up retail as a part of a much, much longer-term scheme. Seacoast and its owners are enthusiastic amateurs compared to actual, dedicated real estate developers. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Jan 29, 2019 |
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Jan 29, 2019 08:45
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anonumos posted:This is why I brought it up. Jesus would be furious. I always try to remember that 'flipping tables and chasing capitalists with a whip' is well within the scope of 'What Would Jesus Do'.
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Jan 29, 2019 08:56
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Discendo Vox posted:I think I'm underselling this. Let me try to give the issue some scale; let's talk about Seacoast. The below is the result of some googling I did last year when someone asked me to try to identify people who were backing confederate apologist groups in SC. Just wanna say this is fascinating stuff and IMHO you should pitch it to a media outlet
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Jan 29, 2019 22:14
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