Bob le Moche posted:

You folks all come off as extremely confused. Like this poo poo is utterly clownish and none of it makes any sense at all. I don't know how it's possible to be this oblivious about literally everything.
You're just throwing random poo poo at the wall hoping to see what sticks, and the only thing that's consistent throughout this thread is unconditional support for US foreign policy in Venezuela, and uniting against anyone who advances any anti-imperialist argument.

Bob le Moche posted:

Bob le Moche posted:

You folks all come off as extremely confused. Like this poo poo is utterly clownish and none of it makes any sense at all. I don't know how it's possible to be this oblivious about literally everything.
You're just throwing random poo poo at the wall hoping to see what sticks, and the only thing that's consistent throughout this thread is unconditional support for US foreign policy in Venezuela, and uniting against anyone who advances any anti-imperialist argument.

THS posted:

Why do you even post on this forum? You act like you understand every argument from every side but you obviously don’t feel anything. You’re like some hosed up broken robot programmed for a non-existent function. Your contrarianism and pedantic bullshit should get old eventually, even to yourself - but here you still are, running with the same act for years and years and years.

Feinne posted:

The Venezuelan constitution actually does seem to have a provision wherein this is the proper and legal recourse in the event there is not a legitimate result for a presidential election (the first part, not the rebel military soldier overthrow part). But since the current government is a military dictatorship running under the fig leaf of its previous constitution, that's doomed to failure as long as the military supports Maduro.

fnox posted:

gently caress me I didn't know Saddam apologists actually existed, I don't know how in your head someone can kill a million people and still be fit to rule, but I guess I now know the people that I'm dealing with. Just spare me the bullshit of you caring about the lives of anybody abroad with that mentality.

PT6A posted:

If we're going to make comparisons to Iraq, let's ask: would Saddam be a better leader for Venezuela than Maduro?

I'm not certain but I think it's possible. I doubt he'd be significantly worse.

Norton the First posted:

easy for you to point to the exact US sanctions that are causing Venezuelans to starve

420 Gank Mid posted:

all of them

420 Gank Mid posted:

all of them

fishmech posted:

Being smart enough to not praise a dictator isn't an "act" ya fascist.

420 Gank Mid posted:

all of them

Giggle Goose posted:

I wouldn't be surprised if this person was unaware as to what a sanction even is.

fnox posted:

Which, dumbass. List them.

GreyjoyBastard posted:

you're not even loving trying, are you

I linked them and summarized them! This page!

Edit: last page, it is I who am the fake news

Chuck Boone posted:

https://twitter.com/invenezuelablog/status/1088215941295628290

420 Gank Mid posted:

https://twitter.com/mattvbrady/status/1088182782289895424

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

Anyone want to use this news to decry potential Kremlin intervention in Venezuela without any evidence such things are happening, or does only America get that treatment?

fnox posted:

gently caress me I didn't know Saddam apologists actually existed, I don't know how in your head someone can kill a million people and still be fit to rule, but I guess I now know the people that I'm dealing with.

420 Gank Mid posted:

You're the guy who thought iraq was better post invasion

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

Anyone want to use this news to decry potential Kremlin intervention in Venezuela without any evidence such things are happening, or does only America get that treatment?

420 Gank Mid posted:

You're the guy who thought iraq was better post invasion

GreyjoyBastard posted:

Saddam murdered somewhat more people but also did not cause a massive famine and civil collapse through his own greed and stupidity. I'm on board.

also, when confronted with counterrevolutionary monarchists, he invaded their rear end

in the cons pile, he also invaded the Middle East's most successful revolutionary socialisf state

fnox posted:

List the sanctions.

420 Gank Mid posted:

all of them

Pharohman777 posted:

https://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/venezuela/


Here is a link to all Venezuela related sanctions. You should read it carefully. There are 2 things mostly being sanctioned: individual members of the government, and a ban on buying any form of Venezuelan debt. China and russia are buying Venezuelan debt, and when Venezuela defaults, they get the collateral, like land/ports/etc.

Russia and china are acting as loan sharks and are literally gaining control over parts of the country as Venezuela fails to pay its debts it issues.

fnox posted:

List the sanctions.

uninterrupted posted:

Don't worry Venezuelan people who voted for Maduro as opposed to an opposition party that boycotted the loving election, this dude thinks Chemical Ali's boss would be a great replacement as long as he gets to cash in some of those sweet sweet Venezuelan bonds.

fnox posted:

I never said it was better post invasion,

fnox posted:

Saddam killed a million people, are you saying Iraq was better off with him in charge?

uninterrupted posted:

You absolutely said that.

Iraq was absolutely better with Saddam in charge.

Yossarian-22 posted:

Imagine if Trump boycotted the election for being rigged and Hillary had won. Maybe you guys would gullibly have called her a "dictator" too and advocated a coup in which Paul Ryan becomes dictator because reasons

Yossarian-22 posted:

Imagine if Trump boycotted the election for being rigged and Hillary had won. Maybe you guys would gullibly have called her a "dictator" too and advocated a coup in which Paul Ryan becomes dictator because reasons

Truga posted:

Realtalk: putin's goons landing in venezuela means either maduro's fleeing, which would be a smart thing to do right now for everyone involved, especially himself, or, well, someone's getting some rusty bombers on lease right now.

DoctorStrangelove posted:

I am not the other posters in this thread. People can agree that Maduro is bad but understand why he is bad under different terms. We can disagree about the details but agree about the big picture. Your opponents are not a hive-mind.

Yossarian-22 posted:

Imagine if Trump boycotted the election for being rigged and Hillary had won. Maybe you guys would gullibly have called her a "dictator" too and advocated a coup in which Paul Ryan becomes dictator because reasons

CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:

More like Trump boycotts the election against Bernie, then cries foul and American liberals and centrists rise up and demand Hillary be installed president

GreyjoyBastard posted:

you don't know thing 1 about the Venezuelan election apparently

THS posted:

But you’re not smart. You’re a loose accumulation of factoids without anything tying it together.

Labradoodle posted:

Ok, so this is where things get tricky. Basically, everyone agrees the last presidential elections in Venezuela were rigged. The government barred most opposition parties from running except for a handpicked couple, used every trick in the book to rig the game in their favor and even then, they probably inflated the vote count just for kicks. They've been rigging election results ever since the Constituent Assembly vote in 2017 when even the freaking company that provided the machines said "Hey, these results are bogus" (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...y-idUSKBN1AI1KZ).

So what happens when a party that controls almost the whole state rigs a presidential election? We don't know because that's uncharted territory. However, the Venezuelan constitution explains that should the president be unable to assume his role, the person at the head of the National Assembly (Guaido) in his case, will assume that role and call for new elections.

Why is this whole mess happening now? Because the new presidential term kicked off on January 10th and since Maduro's election was rigged, the National Assembly said "Not gonna happen, buddy. Article 233 tells us that Guaido needs to step in and call for new elections".

Why is this messy? Because article 233 wasn't written with the idea that someone (Maduro, in this case) would try to usurp the presidency. However, the National Assembly is basically the only Venezuelan institution that came to power under legitimate elections, even if the government has tried to strip them of all competencies.

So is this a coup? Arguably, Maduro stole a second term using rigged elections. The Chavista government has used every trick in the book to block the way for a peaceful transition, all the while looting the country. This poo poo needs to change and fast, so while this interpretation of the Venezuelan constitution is spotty, at best, it's also the best chance to overthrow a government that has no qualms letting its population starve and die due to lack of food and medicine.

Am I happy about the role the US is playing in this? gently caress, no. I fundamentally hate Trump as a human being and Bolsonaro's not too far behind. However, there isn't going to be a return to democracy in Venezuela without some external pressure. That's just the way it is, because Chavismo is too entrenched and not whiling to cede power without someone twisting its arm.