|
Is it just me or did this thread get a mass American intervention of Americans complaining about American intervention.
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 03:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 02:40 |
|
|
Grapplejack posted:Venezuela: Tankies to the left of me, Fascists to the right and here I am, stuck in a centrist coup too long; cuts off at a (centrist coup)
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 03:52
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:Venezuela’s Maduro under investigation in $1.2 billion U.S. money-laundering case Interesting read, thanks! Got any others?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 03:53
|
|
|
Dabir posted:What profit though? Where's your evidence? You done hosed up hombre because Acebuckeye13 posted:Venezuela’s Maduro under investigation in $1.2 billion U.S. money-laundering case And thats just Maduro. Basically the entire higher level government has been doing this. Christ I do not understand the desire to prop up this guy because he wears the correct color shirt much less over the words of actual Venezuelans. Everyone my family knows has fled and they arent rich people because my families work in Venezuela was building collectivist farming operations
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 03:53
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/cjcmichel/status/1088222431167303681
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 03:53
|
|
|
i wonder if those US embassy workers are actually getting paid during all this
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 03:54
|
|
|
Dabir posted:Interesting read, thanks! Got any others? Honestly just go to the first page and click on Chuck Boone's posts, dude's done a hell of a job documenting everything that's been happening in the country the past few years from a wide variety of sources, including many of his own translations from spanish language papers and stations. The thread really doesn't deserve him. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Jan 24, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 03:56
|
|
|
Party Plane Jones posted:too long; cuts off at a (centrist coup) I think “Tankies to the left of me, fascists to the right, here I am...” does a good enough job though?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 03:56
|
|
|
Just balkanize Venezuela into a small micro state that controls all the oil, and a large regular state that has a normal economy based on agriculture, manufacturing, tourism, etc.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 03:57
|
|
|
Barudak posted:You done hosed up hombre because I don't think I hosed up, that was an interesting thing to read. Are you assuming I support Maduro or something? I'm just trying to find out the facts.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 04:02
|
|
|
Crowsbeak posted:Maduro better take some cues from Assad in dealing with these foreign backed traitors. Maybe he can ask Putin for assistance.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 04:04
|
|
|
Schadenboner posted:I think “Tankies to the left of me, fascists to the right, here I am...” does a good enough job though? It gets the joke through I think 
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 04:27
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:Venezuela’s Maduro under investigation in $1.2 billion U.S. money-laundering case Also these kinds of accusations swirl around all of the Chavista leadership. Diosdado Cabello, who heads the Constituent National Assembly which has ostensibly usurped the place of the old parliament, was also sanctioned due to suspicion of drug trafficking. Tareck Zaidan El Aissami Maddah, a Vice President, is also accused of trafficking narcotics. Of course these could just be CIA smears. I'll leave it to your imagination to figure out how Cabello's three Florida based companies which were were financed. Meanwhile two of Maduro's nephews were apprehended in Haiti smuggling around $20 million of cocaine. that all of his associates are drug dealers obviously doesn't mean Maduro is one himself of course. However much more important than this kind of petty corruption is the corrosive effects of his policies on the wider economy, and the way it has fostered corruption at all levels. For example when gasoline is given away nearly for free, obviously people start smuggling it into Colombia where they can turn it into cash. This is illegal of course, and the result is that frequently gas stations have no fuel at all, so much is diverted out of the country. Not as if there is any motivation for people to keep it on the market when there is no profit in it? Squalid fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Jan 24, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 04:31
|
|
|
Apologies if some of this is repeated information. I've skimmed the last few pages of the thread. Guaido declared himself interim President of the Republic a little after the noon hour in front of a huge crowd supporters in Caracas. Here's that moment: https://twitter.com/EfectoCocuyo/status/1088135780764213248 quote:Juan Guaido: Today, January 23 2019, in my capacity as President of the National Assembly, invoking the articles of the Constitution of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela–with all of our actions based on our Constitution–before God Almighty, Venezuela: with respect to my colleagues and members of the [opposition], I hereby formally assume the office of the national executive as interim President of Venezuela. Guaido left the stage pretty quickly after that. There were rumours that he went straight to the Colombian or the Canadian embassy to take refuge, but as far as I can tell that's not true. It'd say he's probably laying low, but he's tweeted since his announcement. This is a video from the crowd after Guaido's announcement. The people are singing the national anthem: https://twitter.com/aleguzmanw/status/1088178764645847040 (Note: The Venezuelan national anthem is pretty cool. It's about overthrowing your oppressors and standing up to tyranny. It's called "Gloria al Bravo Pueblo" [Glory to the Brave People] and it's an ode to the revolutionaries who kicked off the war of independence against Spain in 1810) The PSUV was holding a rally at the Plaza O'Leary in Caracas at about that same time. Diosdado Cabello (the vice president of the PSUV) was giving a speech there. I don't have links, but he said that Venezuelans would defend Maduro from anyone trying to remove him from office, and he said that they should all go to the Miraflores Palace to help defend Maduro. Maduro was supposed to go to Plaza O'Leary to attend the rally there, but he didn't go. So, Diosdado Cabello led the crowd to Miraflores. Once in Miraflores, Maduro appeared on a balcony. He was looking absolutely massive. I'm pretty sure he was wearing some kind of crazy kevlar because, well, take a look (absolute unit, large adult president): https://twitter.com/invenezuelablog/status/1088165481775804416 Maduro's speech was newsworthy mostly because of how un-newsworthy it was. It was like any other speech he'd give on a normal day. The most that came out of it was that he was breaking diplomatic ties with the US and expelling its officials. Pompeo replied to that shortly thereafter saying that the staff weren't going anywhere, because they were there to maintain ties with Guaido, the country's president: https://twitter.com/SecPompeo/status/1088243579741487104 Image/video dump from throughout the day: A wider shot of the crowd in Caracas that heard Guaido speak: https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1088133294514978816 These are some shots of the crowd in Maracaibo, Zulia state: https://twitter.com/ReporteYa/status/1088179307128807429 This looks like a crowd of protesters running alongside/on top of a truck. It's hard to tell to whom the truck belongs, but I think it's safe to say that it's from a security service: https://twitter.com/soldadoDfranela/status/1088273691564261381 There was a firefight involving the FAES (a wing of the National Bolivarian Police) in the Petare area of Caracas earlier today. Local media are reporting that someone threw a grenade during that fight: https://twitter.com/soldadoDfranela/status/1088246874040078337 https://twitter.com/AASalcines/status/1088243781516836864 Pretty intense scene from Barinas. I think about 4-6 protesters died there today: https://twitter.com/sotiridi/status/1088159845734367234 Earlier in the day, protesters set fire to a PSUV office in Maturin, Monagas state: https://twitter.com/invenezuelablog/status/1088158166427336704 I'm still working through fatality reports, but a pretty safe range estimate is 16-18 dead so far in the last 48 hours. From what I can see, all but two were protesters: one was a merchant who might not have been participating in a protest when the security forces opened fire, and it looks like one was a National Guard soldier who was presumably killed by protesters. Acebuckeye13 posted:Honestly just go to the first page and click on Chuck Boone's posts, dude's done a hell of a job documenting everything that's been happening in the country the past few years from a wide variety of sources, including many of his own translations from Spanish. 
Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Jan 24, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 04:32
|
|
|
I see that the thread has exploded with posts, did this anti-President get a lot of traction or what?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 04:40
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:I see that the thread has exploded with posts, did this anti-President get a lot of traction or what? He's been recognized by the US, much of the Lima Group, and Kosovo, but that's about it. It's still early though, so there's lots of tension in the country right now. I think we're not past the "Maduro flees country carrying huge bags with dollar signs on them" stage.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 04:43
|
|
|
Chuck Boone posted:He's been recognized by the US, much of the Lima Group, and Kosovo, but that's about it. It's still early though, so there's lots of tension in the country right now. I think we're not past the "Maduro flees country carrying huge bags with dollar signs on them" stage. I asked this before but it got kind of buried in all the posting that got probated, but are there any signs that the military is anything but mostly 100% behind Maduro?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 04:46
|
|
|
Berke Negri posted:I asked this before but it got kind of buried in all the posting that got probated, but are there any signs that the military is anything but mostly 100% behind Maduro? At this moment, no. The Minister of Defense (Vladimir Padrino Lopez) tweeted his support for Maduro earlier. He's really influential, so I think the mid-upper levels of the army are squarely with Maduro still. Guaido's declaration and the statements of support form the int'l community are important because they give any officers/soldiers on the fence about Maduro a "legal" (for lack a better term) to rebel because they can point to Guaido and say, "He's really the president so we're following him!". So, if there are any officers/soldiers like that in Venezuela, tonight is when they might pull the trigger on a move like that. EDIT: Padrino Lopez's tweet: https://twitter.com/vladimirpadrino/status/1088185917410603008
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 04:50
|
|
|
I think we likely won't see any of the Venezuelan military higher-ups turn tables up until the very last second, if even then. These guys are all committed to the government because they know their survival is tied to them. As for the lower-ranking military, those guys aren't comfortable at all, from what we know. However, there's massive pressure to appear as if they support the government unless they want to be taken in 'for questioning' by the secret police. I'd frankly be surprised if the majority of the Venezuelan military still blindly supports the government. They don't have enough money to keep all of them happy and well fed, so who knows what's going to happen?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 04:56
|
|
|
That's...A hell of a loaded headline. Isn't the real problem that the administration are a bunch of authoritarian kleptocrats? Or did something change while I wasn't looking? It's the old "Say we're progressive/socialist/whatever, actually be corrupt and far right wing/authoritarian as heck." thing that occasionally happens when lovely sociopaths that have a concept of public image get into power. Archonex fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Jan 24, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:00
|
|
|
Any information on what the opposition party is promising to do if it takes power would be appreciated.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:00
|
|
|
Archonex posted:That's...A hell of a loaded headline. Isn't the real problem that the administration are a bunch of authoritarian kleptocrats? Or did something change while I wasn't looking? Hard to fault the media for calling the regime socialist when leftist gringo twitter is showing its full, entire rear end in favor of Maduro.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:02
|
|
|
it's the wonderful perfect Iraq-era storm of "yup, this guy sucks" "how much money do you want to bet on the US-backed successor doing better" the fun part is that thanks to the wonderful precedent we set with debaathification anyone in the military who even -thinks- of switching sides knows exactly the form of gratitude they will be shown for peacefully submitting, and that it ranges from 'nothing' to "room with convenient storm drain" diplomacy!
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:04
|
|
|
If the US were to intervene directly it would be awful, sure. Lets worry about it when the US does it or makes noise about it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:06
|
|
|
Typical Pubbie posted:Any information on what the opposition party is promising to do if it takes power would be appreciated. The constitution says Guaido needs to call to elections in 30 days after being sworn in. We don't know if that'll be possible, nor who would run in those circumstances or what their government plan would be. We're likely see some of the usuals, including Leopoldo López, María Corina Machado, Henry Ramos Allup, and Henry Falcon. At least those are the ones I'd put my money on.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:06
|
|
|
Grape posted:Is it just me or did this thread get a mass American intervention of Americans complaining about American intervention. Well all our phones exploded this morning eastern time with a free press that definitely does not answer to a surveillance state apparatus crowing that there was a new popular venezuelan president so, y'know. We get curious what the hubbub is about.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:06
|
|
|
Barudak posted:If the US were to intervene directly it would be awful, sure. Lets worry about it when the US does it or makes noise about it. i have extremely bad news for you about the noise that was made about it Literally Today
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:07
|
|
|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:i have extremely bad news for you about the noise that was made about it Literally Today Ah yes, the part where the US began moving air craft cariers to the area in preparation of a land invasion. Its not Iraq right now. It could, and that would assuredly turn to liquid poo poo in a hurry, but we arent there and its odd to be mad about a course of action not on the agenda.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:09
|
|
|
Barudak posted:If the US were to intervene directly it would be awful, sure. Lets worry about it when the US does it or makes noise about it. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/04/trump-suggested-invading-venezuela-report https://www.newsweek.com/marco-rubio-us-military-solution-venezuela-1101123
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:12
|
|
|
Barudak posted:Ah yes, the part where the US began moving air craft cariers to the area in preparation of a land invasion. under no circumstances should one connect past events with the present. one should live one's life in a perfect solipsistic sphere, unmolested by concepts of past or future. the box in front of me is a series of lights in shapes i find aesthetically pleasing, and that is knowledge enough for anyone
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:14
|
|
|
Typical Pubbie posted:Hard to fault the media for calling the regime socialist when leftist gringo twitter is showing its full, entire rear end in favor of Maduro. I don't want to get off onto US chat again (I just took a closer look at the last few pages and holy poo poo.) but I can drat well fault them for that. That's some straight up deceptive reporting intended to trick low information types into thinking our own countries' democratic socialist movement is bad by proxy. Heck, just look at the comments. Worse still, it throws cover to the actual corruption and issues going on in Venezuala by pinning the concept of socialism to people that in action represent not a single concept of the ideology. It's deception on multiple levels aimed at multiple different groups of people in multiple areas of the world. I'd expect that sort of headline out of Fox News or one of it's foreign Murdoch owned equivalents. It's some real "post truth" bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:16
|
|
|
I got a letter from D J T It said, "today is your lucky day" It's time to put your ACU trousers on Though it may seem very queer We've got no paying jobs to give you here So we are sending you to Valencia
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:21
|
|
|
Archonex posted:That's...A hell of a loaded headline. Isn't the real problem that the administration are a bunch of authoritarian kleptocrats? Or did something change while I wasn't looking? It's loaded yes, but I would argue that Venezueala's leaders are socialist by way of identification, which I believe matters. This thread often points out that they are no different from right-wing kleptocracies really and that is true, but they still cling to a socialist ideology. It kind of seems like more of a contradiction that socialists would do this than the typical Latin American right-wing junta, because really they did not really have much of an ideology ever than anti-communism, God and resisting social change. They are socialists, just horribly corrupt and selfish ones who at this point probably care much more for enriching themselves than anything else, though I would not be surprised if many of them have become so deluded that they believe that there is no contradiction to them enriching themselves while the rest of the country goes hungry. Then again that headline does seem like its trying to own other socialists, not necessarily the guys running Venezueala. Also, just because you are a socialist doesn't mean you have to defend the guys running Venezueala. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Jan 24, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:22
|
|
|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:under no circumstances should one connect past events with the present. one should live one's life in a perfect solipsistic sphere, unmolested by concepts of past or future. the box in front of me is a series of lights in shapes i find aesthetically pleasing, and that is knowledge enough for anyone Our only difference in opinion seems to be how involved we view the US is and how likely a US invasion is. Current US policy is more overt then it has been in the past, but there currently is no propaganda push, no consistent interest in the region or motivation from the domestic front for war, for me to be concerned with that outcome at present and I can maintain hope the issues plaguing the country can be solved without such an outcome. Next week when Trump starts declaring a new Axis of Evil in a speach directly to fox news I will be here agreeing that the impending US invasion is horrible and sad that my fleeting optimism is dead.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:23
|
|
|
Randarkman posted:Then again that headline does seem like its trying to own other socialists, not necessarily the guys running Venezueala. Also, just because you are a socialist doesn't mean you have to defend the guys running Venezueala. Sadly it seems a lot of self-identifying socialists seem determined to defend Maduro's regime. Still, it's their own choice and the consequences are their own fault.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:27
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Sadly it seems a lot of self-identifying socialists seem determined to defend Maduro's regime. Still, it's their own choice and the consequences are their own fault. People need to realize just because Venezuela is poo poo doesn't mean that socialism is bad. Unfortunately, they don't so they defend the lovely government, just like they do with Cuba. Hell, I've heard of socialists defending Assad of all people.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:33
|
|
|
Barudak posted:Our only difference in opinion seems to be how involved we view the US is and how likely a US invasion is. Current US policy is more overt then it has been in the past, but there currently is no propaganda push, no consistent interest in the region or motivation from the domestic front for war, for me to be concerned with that outcome at present and I can maintain hope the issues plaguing the country can be solved without such an outcome. how does a week ago strike you
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:35
|
|
|
Thanks, i moved countries in the past few weeks so I did indeed flat miss this. On one hand laffo mike pence doing anything any one cares about, on the other Venezuelans need to get Maduro out now otherwise rip their country. Or I guess maduro could get ICBMs and nuclear weaponry.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:38
|
|
|
is this were we go to get 6ers for correct opinions? Because Maduro is the legitimate leader and you don't get to pretend an election doesn't count because you bailed out of one you were clearly going to lose badly
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 02:40 |
|
|
The European Union has come out in favor of the National Assembly, though they stopped short of recognizing Juan Guaidó as President.quote:On 23 January, the people of Venezuela have massively called for democracy and the possibility to freely determine their own destiny. These voices cannot be ignored. https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/...s-in-venezuela/
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2019 05:54
|
|
