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Fratstar_Eatpuss posted:This is an entry-level position and pretty much my second job out of college and even though I have good experience I don't have a whole lot of it and my major is kind of irrelevant None of this is relevant to the negotiation at hand. Much more relevant is that they have already made you an offer, and much, much, MUCH more relevant is that you have another offer on the table. Congrats on getting a new job you're excited about. Now do what it takes to get your confidence level way higher than it is now, it will enhance your life in a ton of ways, only one of which is you'll get paid more money.
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Jan 7, 2019 20:33
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I've got my annual review coming up next week and I have no real idea how to negotiate the potential raise a) because it's babbys first job and b) because I got where I am in a slightly weird way. I've got a few questions to help myself feel it out, I'm hoping this is the right place to ask? I've fudged some minor details below to hopefully slightly obscure my identity if my coworkers happen to be goons. Question 1: The crux of the matter, I started here as a temp a little over two years ago doing data entry, and then the role expanded and they eventually took me on as permanent about eight months ago. Should I view the current contract within isolation and base my review off the past eight months, or can I view myself as having been here for two years? I had a significant growth in both my skills and my responsibilities over the temping (as below) but the role hasn't changed much since I signed a permanent contract eight months ago, as I'll explain below I hosed up and didn't actually get much more compensation for my being more valuable at the change of contract - did I miss my chance entirely to talk about what happened when I was a temp? If there's any chance it's worth considering what happened before, I've got more question below. Question 2: Kind of an extension of the above, but with numbers. When I was temping, I was earning £10 an hour plus £20 per day travel allowance, which is £19500 on the hourly plus about £5000 in travel over the year. As a permanent employee, I'm earning £25000/year, which basically comes out as almost exactly the same. The only real new benefit is a slightly friendlier leave arrangement. From the perspective of my budget sheet, I've taken in £25000/year for the two years and want an increase in year three, at least to keep up with inflation and rent increases. On the other hand, I think it's possible they could separate the hourly pay from the benefit and say I had a 25% raise less than a year ago. Internally, my line is that I should have more money to live on at 24 than I did at 21, I just have no idea how much I can argue that. Which way is my employer likely to view it? If they do want to look at the pay for the work in isolation rather than my total compensation package, is there any point at all in arguing the other way? Question 3: Again, pretty similar to the above, but about my skills and responsibilities. When I agreed the temp contract I was newly graduated and the work was just data entry of recurring legal compliance checks as they transferred software systems, with my work being fairly heavily audited. After that, I knew that system the best and started to help schedule the checks, which shifted over to the point where I'm now the main person managing it with little oversight. This in itself feels pretty major. I've also been trained in several of the technical systems we use and am the first point of contact for dealing with them, both in terms of actually doing things and being able to communicate with consultants. I do basic IT for the office (toner changes, clicking through errors, holding the power button). It's not expert level work, but it's skills most of my colleagues lack and me doing it saves time, effort and call-out charges. I also pick up other parts of the business if people are out of the office or swamped, so I've got a lot of knowledge across the business. Most of that progress happened while I was the temp, and while my experience and knowledge have grown since becoming a permanent employee it's not such a major change. Is there much point in trying to present all that as personal progress when I'm putting my case forward? Obviously the correct answer is it to take all my personal growth and go work somewhere else, but I can do this sooner and they've already offered to give me more training so I'll think about a new job later in the year.
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Jan 8, 2019 01:16
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Deformed Church posted:I've got my annual review coming up next week and I have no real idea how to negotiate the potential raise a) because it's babbys first job and b) because I got where I am in a slightly weird way. I've got a few questions to help myself feel it out, I'm hoping this is the right place to ask? I've fudged some minor details below to hopefully slightly obscure my identity if my coworkers happen to be goons.
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Jan 8, 2019 01:22
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I’ve got a question about asking for a raise: I started in this position 7 months ago, and came in at the lower end for my field (60k / year) because I hadn’t discovered this thread. Since then I’ve transferred to the same position at a different location, and for about two months was simultaneously covering both locations (2 days / 3 days split between the two). I’ve also trained my replacement from the ground up and continue to help him with issues that arise. Additionally, I’ve picked up a job relevant certification in that time. Normally I would think to wait until the one year mark / review to ask, but my company recently changed a healthcare reimbursement program in which they reimbursed all of my premiums from my outside insurance to no longer reimbursing any. I feel like this might be an applicable time to ask for a bump in pay, at least to cover the difference in income (about 3k a year). Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Jan 8, 2019 16:02
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The advice would be to find a new job that pays you better because otherwise this company has no incentive to do so.
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Jan 8, 2019 16:09
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bamhand posted:The advice would be to find a new job that pays you better because otherwise this company has no incentive to do so. That’s the long term plan. This job was a means to an end for me to break into a different field, but as of right now it offers a tremendous amount of flexibility schedule wise with very low oversight. However, short term, despite the pay not being ideal, it’s optimal with what I have going on family wise over the next 6-12 months.
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Jan 8, 2019 16:15
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It doesn't hurt to ask, but unless your company is run by very nice people the answer is going to be no... and unfortunately for you if your company was run by very nice people, they probably wouldn't have cut off your reimbursements.
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Jan 8, 2019 16:19
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Understandable. You can certainly ask but the company has no reason to give you more money besides "out of the goodness of their heart" and they just demonstrated they're willing to cut your benefits.
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Jan 8, 2019 16:19
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I got an extra 5k/yr at my new job by asking for it. Thanks thread!
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Jan 8, 2019 16:36
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I figure this is the best thread to ask this in: how does one go about assessing a consulting fee rate? More specifically, I was (very) recently let go from my company, however given the nature of my roll there, I suspect they'll reach out to me for some consulting work. How do I figure out how much to charge them?
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Jan 11, 2019 19:30
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Cyril Sneer posted:I figure this is the best thread to ask this in: how does one go about assessing a consulting fee rate? More specifically, I was (very) recently let go from my company, however given the nature of my roll there, I suspect they'll reach out to me for some consulting work. How do I figure out how much to charge them? Left on good terms? Your previous salary in hours x 2 Left on bad terms? Your previously salary in hours x 5
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Jan 11, 2019 19:58
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If your company calls you back to use domain knowledge you already have, my guess is the base rate should be higher than that. 2x is reasonable for like, a similar role at a different company where you're a contractor instead of an employee, but for this one, you're a near-one-of-a-kind guy with specific knowledge of their system. It's up to you to infer what would make them not bother, but I could easily imagine you being worth 2x a typical contractor, or 4x total. Whereas, if it's bad terms, I'd enjoy the "gently caress you" of 10x, personally. I guess this is also tempered by the whole "being let go" thing. How much do you need the money short term? There are certainly some situations where a guarantee of at least some money is better than maximizing the expected payout, you gotta decide if you're there or not. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jan 11, 2019 |
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Jan 11, 2019 20:18
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If you were let go, even if on good terms, and they realized they still need you after, then honestly gently caress them kinda. 3-5x your salary-hourly I'd say if you're on good terms. 10x to "gently caress off" if not. 2-3x is pretty typical contractor vs FTE rate for anybody off the street. Having intimate domain knowledge and no onboarding/ramp-up time makes you way more valuable than that. Guinness fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Jan 11, 2019 |
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Jan 11, 2019 20:22
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I'd enjoy the "gently caress you" of 10x, personally. As would I 
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Jan 11, 2019 20:35
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Cyril Sneer posted:I figure this is the best thread to ask this in: how does one go about assessing a consulting fee rate? More specifically, I was (very) recently let go from my company, however given the nature of my roll there, I suspect they'll reach out to me for some consulting work. How do I figure out how much to charge them?
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Jan 11, 2019 22:14
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ratbert90 posted:Left on bad terms? Your previously salary in hours x 5 I did this with critical infrastructure work the month after getting laid off in an extremely lovely manner and it was loving awesome. Spite and tons of money are a great motivator.
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Jan 12, 2019 09:32
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Dik Hz posted:Make sure to have a minimum number of hours too. No matter how much you ask for, it's not really worth it if you only get 1-2 hours out of it. Caveat that I am not an individual contractor but people who are have said charging by the week or full day can help with this kind of thing.
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Jan 16, 2019 00:50
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Hi negotiation thread! Things are going swimmingly at work since I last posted, so swimmingly in fact that my boss thinks I should apply for the QA manager position (head of quality for the entire business unit) that is going to open up in a few months. From what she told me, they want to hire internally if possible, and it would between myself and my old boss who said he doesn't want the job because of all the upcoming audit bullshit that's likely to hit us this spring, and all the crap that needs to change now that we've come under new management. Now the thing is, I've never managed jack poo poo in my life. How do I even begin to negotiate my compensation? Like I said, I have no management experience at all, no college degree, no certifications in six sigma, or Lean manufacturing or any of that poo poo. I was a reasonably good inspector who can do my own research and figure out what needs to be done. My current role is the buyer for all the subcontracted processing work for our company, which makes me a department of one more or less, since I handle everything related to outside processing besides the physical transportation of the parts and receiving them back in. I don't really tell anyone what to do that works for our company however. I know what our QA manager makes now, it's about 95k, but it's salary, and I am currently hourly and working 500-600 hours of OT a year, so I'll make about 65k this year if I stay put. I don't really see that going down very much (probably up tbh) if I do wind up doing this so that would have to be taken into account. I am also literally half of the age of the current QA manager. Also since this is an internal interview, should I bring my resume? Do I dress up in nice clothes or wear what I normally wear (jeans and a company provided shirt)? I know this sounds goony but I've been working here basically my entire adult life and all my other promotions have been much more informal affairs.
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Jan 16, 2019 02:37
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Negotiation success story: Last spring I got my target bonus (100%) and a ~5% raise in my base, despite having taken on a lot more responsibilities when a more senior member of our team left and having excellent reviews. I went back to my boss and pointed those two things out and asked for a 30% raise effective immediately. After some back and forth I didn't get an immediate raise, but I was given a verbal commitment that they'd give me a bonus as if I had a higher base and I'd get a large raise this year. I just found out that my bonus will be ~130% of last year's base, and I'm getting a ~25% raise this year. Also I think I'll be getting a title bump that comes with an extra week of vacation, although it isn't confirmed yet.
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Jan 16, 2019 03:01
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rscott posted:Also since this is an internal interview, should I bring my resume? Do I dress up in nice clothes or wear what I normally wear (jeans and a company provided shirt)? I know this sounds goony but I've been working here basically my entire adult life and all my other promotions have been much more informal affairs. How do managers at your company dress? Use that to calibrate what you wear - you're trying to give your interviewer the impression that you fit the mold. I'd err on the side of going a step up from that baseline to show respect for the opportunity. (IMO, jeans + company shirt signals employee, not manager, but your company's culture might be different.) Your boss might be able to clue you in on what the budget is/should be for the QA manager role. Otherwise, you could look up the average in your area and use that to determine your ask.
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Jan 16, 2019 03:07
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The current QA manager wears pretty much what I do except he tucks his shirt in and wears a belt
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Jan 16, 2019 03:26
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I would wear a step above what managers wear for an interview, so probably slacks, collared shirt, and a jacket. On compensation, use the 95k to gague where you should end up. If you'd have more responsibilities then shoot higher.
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Jan 16, 2019 06:02
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A follow-up on my post on the previous page about going from contract to full time at my current company: I did end up getting an offer- they must like me more than I realized, because I applied for an internal position and literally the next day they told me I was going to get it without an interview or anything. When HR called me a few days later to talk to me about it and poke at what kind of pay I was looking for, they claimed they didn't know what I currently made, but there's no way that wasn't super easy to find out even if that was true, so I knew my BATNA was still pretty low. They offered me 78k, which is lower than my current rate, but once you factor in benefits, is significantly more compensation (as a W2 contractor, I was hourly with no vacation days or 401k match and our health insurance was super expensive). Not wanting to push my luck too much, I immediately came back with "can we push that up to 80 even?", and they immediately just said yes. I realize I probably could have gotten more, considering how easily they took that one, but I didn't want to push my luck since they had access to my current pay. Anyway, to make a long story short, it's the same as always: never not negotiate! Edit: The job title was the same as my current one, just on a different team in the same department. If this had been a step up I absolutely would have asked for a lot more. m0therfux0r fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Jan 17, 2019 |
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Jan 17, 2019 18:37
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Happy it all worked out, but you could have negotiated for at least 10% more and no way they'd have gone down from 78k.
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Jan 17, 2019 18:56
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I'm in a fairly strong position, and trying to double check my plan for the best way to leverage that. I'm a little over 2 years at my current job, and compensation is a bit strange here. Basically every employee has a target compensation which is not known to them (although you can kind of guess it), and through a combination of base salary plus RSU grants with vesting events every 6 months that last about 2 years each, you're expected to reach your target compensation. My company does a compensation review every year, where they look at the previous two years of performance of the RSUs that you've had, and use that to determine what grants to give you this year. My understanding is that if you were effectively overpaid because our stock performed well then you'll get a smaller (or no) additional RSU grant and if you were effectively underpaid because the stock did not perform well, then you'll get a larger RSU grant. The idea being that you'll roughly make, on average, whatever your target compensation is, but it can be highly variable from one year to the next based on stock performance and what grants you're getting. In addition to the above, when you're hired you're given a "new hire" grant, which lasts for 4 years, but is structured so that you get 5% at 1Y, 15% at 2Y, and then 20% every 6 months after that. To make up for this somewhat silly RSU structure, I was giving a "signing bonus" of effectively a larger salary in every paycheck for years 1 and 2 (slightly decreasing in the second year) and which goes away completely in year 3. This month will be the first month where I'm getting only the base salary in my monthly paycheck, and the rest of the difference has to be made up from our RSUs. My base salary is 160k (there's no room to move up here, this is a company wide maximum salary unless you live in specific, high COL areas) and at the current stock prices I stand to receive an additional 240k this year from my RSU grants, which puts me at ~400k compensation this year if the stock prices hold out, and possibly more if they do better. I have reason to believe that my target compensation is somewhere in the low 300s (a friend of mine within the company suggested that looking at what the "estimated first year compensation" is in the offer letter is a good way to dial in what your target comp is). This means that I'll likely want to switch companies before my new hire grant is completed (or shortly after), because my understanding is that I can expect a sharp pay cut in my 5th year (because they'll look at it like I got overpaid in the last 2 years), possibly all the way down to my 160k base. Through an internal referral I've been interviewing at another large company, and so far things are going well and optimistically I suspect they're going to make me an offer, likely at a higher leveled position than I am currently in (I'm arguably underleveled at my current place, but I'm currently getting paid as if I was the next level up, so I haven't felt a huge drive to push on it to get a promotion). I know that typically the advice is to not give out your current compensation, but I think that in my case, it makes sense to tell them that I'm currently expecting ~400k total compensation this year, and see what they come up with. My BATNA is strong, I have absolutely no qualms about staying with my current company other than the fact that such a significant portion of my compensation is tied up in RSUs which are highly variable and that I expect 2 years from now a sharp decrease in my compensation. I'm a software engineer so it's not like there is a shortage of jobs available for me either. Unfortunately it's difficult for me to get comparison compensation, as I've never had much luck with sites like Glassdoor, my personal compensation has been significantly higher than what Glassdoor reports for that company + position in 3 of my last jobs, and the rest of my jobs were companies too small to have any salaries listed there. The site levels.fyi has salaries that largely fall in line with Glassdoor for this company, but it has a few outliers of slightly higher positions (including one at a lower position) ranging from 400k (1-2 levels below the position) to 66k (~3 levels higher than the position). All of the exact same positions are showing up in the 250-350 range. The base salaries listed on all of those are in the 190k-240k with the rest being made in RSU grants. I *think* that in this case, the best plan of attack (assuming they make me an offer) is to tell them that my targeted compensation for this year is 400k, without mentioning what the split is between base salary and RSUs and attempt to get 220k or more of that as base salary. Does that seem reasonable?
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Jan 25, 2019 17:02
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Comrade Gritty posted:I'm in a fairly strong position, and trying to double check my plan for the best way to leverage that. Do you just want a higher salary but the same total comp? That seems like a waste of time to me. I'd ask for higher on both TC and salary.
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Jan 25, 2019 18:22
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That is a very long way to say that you work at a specific FAANG company and you are looking to transition to another FAANG. I am going to assume that is the case. If that's not true, ignore all of the following advice. You can ask your recruiter what level you will enter as once you finish interviewing and they are ready to give you an offer. I recommend them going on the Blind app and searching for offers for that level from that company (note that aside from that, it is a garbage app with an awful userbase). Then ask for the total comp you want for that level if you need to, but otherwise you should still try to make them give you an offer first. Note that this advice changes depending on the specific FAANG company you're going to. Also as a reminder if you're in California, employers are legally obligated to provide you the salary range if you ask for it, which can help you build your target comp number and get a better understanding of how your comp will be split up.
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Jan 25, 2019 18:27
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asur posted:Do you just want a higher salary but the same total comp? That seems like a waste of time to me. I'd ask for higher on both TC and salary. Sorry, no I meant to mention the current compensation to anchor the discussion that they'd need to be above that to make it worthwhile to leave my current position, to make sure that they don't come in under my current compensation. interrodactyl posted:That is a very long way to say that you work at a specific FAANG company and you are looking to transition to another FAANG. I am going to assume that is the case. If that's not true, ignore all of the following advice. More or less, Amazon is my current employer and Microsoft is the potential new company (I don't think Microsoft is technically a FAANG). I'm not going through a recruiter, I'm talking with either the hiring manager, or their skip level (depending on specific position) directly as the role was an internal referral directly to them, so I think they're somewhat in control of the leveling of the positions. I'll take a look at the blind app thanks! Unfortunately, not in CA. I'll avoid giving a number to see what they come out with then, and see what they do.
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Jan 25, 2019 18:58
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Comrade Gritty posted:Sorry, no I meant to mention the current compensation to anchor the discussion that they'd need to be above that to make it worthwhile to leave my current position, to make sure that they don't come in under my current compensation. Anchor to what you want, not where you are at. You can always bring your current company into the discussion later, but once you mention it they know they only need to beat that number.
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Jan 25, 2019 19:30
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Comrade Gritty posted:More or less, Amazon is my current employer and Microsoft is the potential new company (I don't think Microsoft is technically a FAANG). I'm not going through a recruiter, I'm talking with either the hiring manager, or their skip level (depending on specific position) directly as the role was an internal referral directly to them, so I think they're somewhat in control of the leveling of the positions. I'll take a look at the blind app thanks! I figured it was Amazon because of the vesting schedule, but didn't want to be more specific than that in case you wanted some anonymity. Just know that Microsoft's RSU grants are usually worse than Amazon's.
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Jan 25, 2019 19:53
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For whatever blessed reason, a company reached out to me after my application and wants to interview me. I technically met about half their requirements. I'd really consider myself in the lower rung. Their pay range for this job is huge, and even the lowest figure is 80% higher than my current pay. The nature of this job is basically PR and fundraising, so I'd imagine they'd expect me to negotiate just as I would if I was working for them and helping them out right? Their listed range is from 60k-90k. I mean, how far can I push it? Part of me is still shocked they'd consider me, and I really don't want to come off as greedy when getting this job alone would accomplish my financial goals about 3 years ahead of time.
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Jan 25, 2019 20:10
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buglord posted:For whatever blessed reason, a company reached out to me after my application and wants to interview me. I technically met about half their requirements. I'd really consider myself in the lower rung. Their pay range for this job is huge, and even the lowest figure is 80% higher than my current pay. The nature of this job is basically PR and fundraising, so I'd imagine they'd expect me to negotiate just as I would if I was working for them and helping them out right? Their listed range is from 60k-90k. I mean, how far can I push it? Part of me is still shocked they'd consider me, and I really don't want to come off as greedy when getting this job alone would accomplish my financial goals about 3 years ahead of time. Get an offer from them first. Don't say a number until they have.
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Jan 25, 2019 20:16
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Also, is it possible to negotiate for non salary things? Like, more vacation or sick days or something? But yes, I'll wait until they mention a number first.
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Jan 25, 2019 20:20
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buglord posted:Also, is it possible to negotiate for non salary things? Like, more vacation or sick days or something? It's always worth trying, but a lot of companies have blanket policies and schedules for this sort of thing and will resist bending the rules.
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Jan 25, 2019 20:54
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buglord posted:For whatever blessed reason, a company reached out to me after my application and wants to interview me. I technically met about half their requirements. I'd really consider myself in the lower rung. Their pay range for this job is huge, and even the lowest figure is 80% higher than my current pay. The nature of this job is basically PR and fundraising, so I'd imagine they'd expect me to negotiate just as I would if I was working for them and helping them out right? Their listed range is from 60k-90k. I mean, how far can I push it? Part of me is still shocked they'd consider me, and I really don't want to come off as greedy when getting this job alone would accomplish my financial goals about 3 years ahead of time. I gather from your post that you will accept $60K. But be warned, if they find out you're only making $35K now then they absolutely will bid like $45K and stick to it, confident you will accept. So definitely resist tipping off your current pay at all costs. Have you done real research on what this position is worth and what *you* are worth? You want to ask high but you don't want to ask so high you expose yourself as ignorant. Whatever you end up asking for, practice first. It's important that you deliver the ask very calmly, matter-of-factly, even optimistically, like of course this is how much I'm worth! I'm giving you a bargain because I like your company so much, in fact! If you look and sound nervous when you ask, they'll know they can safely bid way lower than whatever you ask for. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Jan 25, 2019 |
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Jan 25, 2019 22:31
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Eric the Mauve posted:I gather from your post that you will accept $60K. But be warned, if they find out you're only making $35K now then they absolutely will bid like $45K and stick to it, confident you will accept. So definitely resist tipping off your current pay at all costs. For the modern goon, this translates to “negotiate from the safety of a computer screen”. Don’t do it on site if you can avoid it.
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Jan 26, 2019 00:51
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Hey so I have a weird sort of negotiation thing. A guy (who knows I'm underpaid, because my current employer is kinda well known in our area for being cheap) told me to put together... basically a salary requirement, including the cost that I'd have to do my own insurance and he would tack roughly that cost on, and tell him. Does this sound basically right? [Salary] would be the area appropriate for the field and my experience level. To keep my current plan through COBRA would be [plan cost per year], so my ideal salary is [salary + plan cost]. (I'm inflating [salary] a bit  but being honest about the health plan)
Shugojin fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Jan 30, 2019 |
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Jan 30, 2019 12:17
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Exaggerate more than a little if you're underpaid and feel obligated to name the first number. Find the biggest number you have the balls to say and add 20%.
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Jan 30, 2019 12:35
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Negotiating over the phone can make as much as 8k difference.
Asimov fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Feb 1, 2019 |
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Jan 31, 2019 23:19
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At least you know they weren't just lying to you when they said that's all they could afford. Probably.
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Jan 31, 2019 23:21
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