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lol https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1089972689282961412
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Jan 28, 2019 21:18
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Can you articulate what is “lol” about this? Just curious as to why you might think so e: oh, and about the points addressed previous? Any thoughts?
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Jan 28, 2019 21:19
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Furia posted:Can you articulate what is “lol” about this? Just curious as to why you might think so Because Guaido seems much more concerned about seizing money than, say, his constitutional requirement (absurdity of the opposition argument notwithstanding) to hold elections within 30 days of his self-coronation?
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Jan 28, 2019 21:28
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Mnunchin just had a press conference and announced some sanctions against PDVSA. Citgo will be allowed to operate but it won't be able to send money back to Venezuela. The sanctions against PDVSA block "all property and interests in property" in the U.S., and bans U.S. persons from doing business with PDVSA: https://twitter.com/ReutersVzla/status/1089988863773343745 The block against PDVSA will be lifted if the company falls under the control of the Guaido camp: https://twitter.com/ReutersVzla/status/1089988864918384644 This is huge. PDVSA is run by the military through a company called CAMINPEG. That's how the country gets all its money. I think that we're rapidly accelerating towards the cliff here.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:02
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like all right wing ghouls all they care about is enriching themselves even when that involves selling off the venezuelan state oil company. The fact he held secret talks with the US before doing this and has the backing of someone desperate for war and another person who likes to organise genocides should be deeply concerning https://twitter.com/ZekeJMiller/status/1089986807922675714
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Jan 28, 2019 22:03
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How difficult would it be to perform that transfer of financial control to the legislature? The gap seems to be the issue, the risk point.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:03
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uninterrupted posted:Because Guaido seems much more concerned about seizing money than, say, his constitutional requirement (absurdity of the opposition argument notwithstanding) to hold elections within 30 days of his self-coronation? As opposed to your boy Maduro and cronies just pocketing the money, not to do this would be almost criminally irresponsible.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:04
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Discendo Vox posted:How difficult would it be to perform that transfer of financial control to the legislature? The gap seems to be the issue, the risk point. The problem so far has been that after the opposition won control of the National Assembly in 2015, the regime has blocked every one of its decisions through the Supreme Court, which is packed with Maduro loyalists. Every single thing that the legislature has done has been struck down by the Supreme Court. So it's been dead in the water. We're in uncharted waters here because if the international community starts recognizing the National Assembly as the country's legislature (something that the regime doesn't do), then it will further fragment the state. We're rapidly approaching a parallel state scenario, one where we've got a president, a legislature, and a supreme court who are recognized by the international community but who don't have the capacity to affect their power in Venezuela, and a government that has the capacity to affect its power in Venezuela but that is not recognized by the international community (so it can't conduct diplomacy, access funds, etc.). EDIT: Reminder also that elections within 30 days are an impossibility for this same reason. Much of the Venezuelan state (the election authority included) is run by Maduro cronies. They wouldn't do anything to jeopardize his presidency. This is also why the CNE did not allow Venezuelans to hold a recall referendum in 2015. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jan 28, 2019 |
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Jan 28, 2019 22:07
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Chuck Boone posted:We're rapidly approaching a parallel state scenario, one where we've got a president, a legislature, and a supreme court who are recognized by the international community but who don't have the capacity to affect their power in Venezuela, and a government that has the capacity to affect its power in Venezuela but that is not recognized by the international community (so it can't conduct diplomacy, access funds, etc.). Honestly the best hope for the Venezuelan government now is to call the US’s bluff. Put a bullet in Guaido’s ear, cut utilities to the embassy, and dare a wildly unpopular president to start an invasion of a country most Americans couldn’t point to on a map. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 28, 2019 22:11
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I on the other hand think we shouldn't condone political assassinations in order to try and provoke war.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:12
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uninterrupted posted:Honestly the best hope for the Venezuelan government now is to call the US’s bluff. Put a bullet in Guaido’s ear, cut utilities to the embassy, and dare a wildly unpopular president to start an invasion of a country most Americans couldn’t point to on a map. Whew.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:14
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uninterrupted posted:Honestly the best hope for the Venezuelan government now is to call the US’s bluff. Put a bullet in Guaido’s ear, cut utilities to the embassy, and dare a wildly unpopular president to start an invasion of a country most Americans couldn’t point to on a map. what the gently caress?
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Jan 28, 2019 22:15
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PT6A posted:I on the other hand think we shouldn't condone political assassinations in order to try and provoke war. Then you probably shouldn’t be cheerleading the US side of the conflict. As long as Guaido is around the US will continue robbing Venezuela.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:15
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Darth Walrus posted:I don't believe the US sanctions cover food supplies, do they? Nah just the primary export that the country uses to fund food imports ~totally different~
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Jan 28, 2019 22:16
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uninterrupted posted:Honestly the best hope for the Venezuelan government now is to call the US’s bluff. Put a bullet in Guaido’s ear, cut utilities to the embassy, and dare a wildly unpopular president to start an invasion of a country most Americans couldn’t point to on a map. I don't know if a "Escalate to De-escalate" strategy will work with the buffoons in DC right now. The US can park a carrier group off the coast, light up all the military installations, send the marines to the ports and defacto control the country without having to venture into the cities at all. Would it look terrible to the world? Does Trump or Bolton or Pompeo give a drat about world opinion really? Doing what you suggest would give them everything they need to annihilate the regime. Maduro should stay calm, mobilize the international community however he can, and slowly begin rounding up the opposition leadership while finding useful idiots in the opposition who will speak to international media about how military intervention would be a catastrophe.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:20
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A Typical Goon posted:Nah just the primary export that the country uses to fund food imports They don't do that either. Where are you guys getting such an avalanche of bullshit from?
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Jan 28, 2019 22:20
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Xae posted:They don't do that either. It's currently the literally top story on BBC?
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Jan 28, 2019 22:22
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Xae posted:They don't do that either. Eruptions of ignorance from the USPOL thread coming over here to scream about Trump attacking Venezuela people's hero Maduro.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:23
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uninterrupted posted:Honestly the best hope for the Venezuelan government now is to call the US’s bluff. Put a bullet in Guaido’s ear, cut utilities to the embassy, and dare a wildly unpopular president to start an invasion of a country most Americans couldn’t point to on a map. Quote from country invaded: "What are you going to do, invade us?"
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Jan 28, 2019 22:23
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Xae posted:They don't do that either. The Trump administration is in fact starting to sanction oil-adjacent things (that aren't the garbage petrodollar), with the provision that the sanctions go away if the real legislature / Guaido et al get control. They're also working on confiscating Maduro government funds abroad with the intent of reassigning them to the Guaido / successor government.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:28
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A Typical Goon posted:It's currently the literally top story on BBC? The sanctions prevent Maduro from spending the money. The provisional government can still move and spend it. Don't just read the headline. It does not stop Venezuela from exporting oil. And how did sanctions announced in the last hour effect the starvation several years ago?
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Jan 28, 2019 22:28
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Rust Martialis posted:Eruptions of ignorance from the USPOL thread coming over here to scream about Trump attacking Venezuela people's hero Maduro. "Ignorant" lol https://twitter.com/bbcbreaking/status/1089987604886495232?s=21
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Jan 28, 2019 22:29
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A Typical Goon posted:"Ignorant" lol Yes, ignorant about the situation in Venezuela and only reacting to the most recent headlines. It's like clockwork - a USPOL* bimbo eruption anytime Venezuela makes it onto the front page. They show up here, scream about the pending/ongoing "US coup" and how anyone against Maduro is a fascist, eat a sixer or two, and then hopefully gently caress off again. *the UKMT is also a reliable source of tankies coming over to lecture the Venezuelans here how they are all terrible people Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jan 28, 2019 |
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Jan 28, 2019 22:33
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Rust Martialis posted:the UKMT is also a reliable source of tankies coming over to lecture the Venezuelans here how they are all terrible people They’ve reliable proven themselves to be gringos with funny accents and a fascination for tea, with (uninformed) opinions of comparable value
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Jan 28, 2019 22:39
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Je suis Tankie
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Jan 28, 2019 22:46
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uninterrupted posted:Honestly the best hope for the Venezuelan government now is to call the US’s bluff. Put a bullet in Guaido’s ear, cut utilities to the embassy, and dare a wildly unpopular president to start an invasion of a country most Americans couldn’t point to on a map. Even if you really thought the best solution is for Maduro to be even more of a military dictator, one should surely realize that Guaido isn't so important of an opposition leader that assassinating him will weaken the opposition more than the sympathy they'll gain from a martyr. Hell it's the kind of thing a CIA mole would try to goad someone into doing to pull down an administration...
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Jan 28, 2019 22:50
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Rust Martialis posted:Yes, ignorant about the situation in Venezuela and only reacting to the most recent headlines. It's like clockwork - a USPOL* bimbo eruption anytime Venezuela makes it onto the front page. They show up here, scream about the pending/ongoing "US coup" and how anyone against Maduro is a fascist, eat a sixer or two, and then hopefully gently caress off again. Hey. Rust Martialis posted:As opposed to your boy Maduro and cronies just pocketing the money, not to do this would be almost criminally irresponsible. Are you arguing here that it's irresponsible to not privatize Venzuelan oil?
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Jan 28, 2019 22:52
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i think theyr'e arguing that since maduro is enriching himself that the opposition should also do so
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Jan 28, 2019 22:53
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Hey. It’d be very irresponsible to do so. Where did you get the idea anybody itt wanted that?
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Jan 28, 2019 22:58
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well its going to happen if maduro gets deposed
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Jan 28, 2019 22:59
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Jose posted:well its going to happen if maduro gets deposed How do you know that?
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Jan 28, 2019 22:59
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Furia posted:How do you know that? He's from the UKMT. He just *knows*.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:02
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Rust Martialis posted:He's from the UKMT. He just *knows*. I don’t really care where anybody posts to be honest. Weird as hell to be calling out people for posting on threads or for posts on other threads like this is some dumb loving subreddit ripe for brigading by another dumb subreddit Would be very nice if they read up on the couple years’ worth of news and literature they ignored until they got a notification on twitter before posting uninformed opinions but I guess you can’t have everything in life
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Jan 28, 2019 23:04
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yeah i wonder why the US are so gung ho about regime change https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1088414772163461120
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Jan 28, 2019 23:05
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Jose posted:yeah i wonder why the US are so gung ho about regime change So why don’t they just keep Maduro in charge and financed so that he can continue to support those jobs?
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Jan 28, 2019 23:06
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Rust Martialis posted:*the UKMT is also a reliable source of tankies coming over to lecture the Venezuelans here how they are all terrible people Some of us just read this thread without shoving our views in, tyvm. 
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Jan 28, 2019 23:07
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Furia posted:So why don’t they just keep Maduro in charge and financed so that he can continue to support those jobs? Can you name a single country in the past 75 years where US backed regime change ended up beneficial to the country?
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Jan 28, 2019 23:10
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https://twitter.com/dany_bahar/status/1090002723704057856 on the off-chance you're wondering about the US stance on the subject, here's a guy from the Brookings Institute explaining that using government money to provide social programs for people, who then proceed to vote for you, makes your government illegitimate
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Jan 28, 2019 23:11
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A Typical Goon posted:Can you name a single country in the past 75 years where US backed regime change ended up beneficial to the country? I have a better challenge for you: find me a single one of my posts where I cheerlead for US regime change. In fact, maybe you shouldn’t post at all until you find one. Go on, have fun. Won’t be holding my breath though.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:11
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Furia posted:How do you know that? https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/...ons-law-sources quote:In addition to reshaping the leadership of Citgo, Guaido plans to introduce a new national hydrocarbons law that establishes flexible fiscal and contractual terms for projects adapted to oil prices and the oil investment cycle, as well as enact an anti-corruption law aimed at PDVSA, sources said. "Bidding rounds" are when governments hold what are basically auctions to determine the rights to explore for or exploit natural resources in the country. So when Guaido holds bidding rounds on natural gas & crude oil, that means they're gonna sell the rights to some other company to come in and drill up all those resources, when the state oil company should be doing it instead. It's selling off the rights to all of those resources for pennies on the dollar compared to what they'd get if the state was exploiting those resources itself.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:11
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