|
I’d argue that it’s like throwing the burger in the garbage and then complaining that the fries took too long.
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 16:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 20:15 |
|
|
FFXIV's sticking everything behind the MSQ is a fairly valid complaint, when taking into account that there are plenty of people that like them some solid hotbar MMO action and could not give a poo poo about whatever story is happening. They added the story skip items to partially address it... but like, also, the unskippable content of various sorts is also what sold me on the game. I'm not that great at MMOs, but I'm willing to learn. WoW always turned me off because the player base is super-hostile to novices and also, the devs don't care to have any continuity of story. Was there a cool raid with awesome stuff in it? Too bad for me, the late-arriving unguilded casual player. Go collect more bear asses as fast as you can so you can play the real game that awaits at the end of the ursine posterior rainbow. I appreciate that FFXIV let me experience all the cool set pieces and fights and things and stuff even if I showed up at the rear end-end of Heavenward and had a lot of catching up to do. This game offers it's own sort of Final Fantasy-based thing. Not every bit of it is for everyone? I hope they can work out a way for the people that just want to do the instanced content and whatever to get to it quicker, but drat, I appreciate that the game's setup supports me and my sluggish ways.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 16:55
|
|
|
It's more like ordering a burger and fries but they won't give me the burger until I prove I've eaten all the fries. It is a good point that the MSQ being the way it is means I can still find groups for the level 50 dungeons even though I'm five years behind. It is true that nobody who joins WoW today is ever going to see the WotLK raids or whatever unless their guild does a nostalgia run. Imagined fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Jan 31, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 16:55
|
|
|
I see infinite takes along the lines of “why do you play this game if you don’t care about the story?” Nobody has ever answered the question “Why are you subscribed to this MMO if all you seem to care about is 2 hours of cutscene every 3 months?” There are more things to do in this game -including things this game does better than WoW - than watch mediocre melodrama and warp around the world to collect chocobo rear end. If you like it then great, you do you, but don’t act confused when people actually want to play the video game part of the video game. (bonus hot take: this game’s story is about as bad as warcraft’s but for different reasons) Ryanbomber fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Jan 31, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 16:59
|
|
|
Truga posted:poo poo picks up during/after 2.4 msq, and SE took the hint and put most filler into sidequests from 3.0 forward, and it really shows. I have auto pilot through everything. I guess Hauchefold or whoever died but I had no idea who he even was. Who is Estinian? I don't care about any of it. I just want to hit 70.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:06
|
|
|
Ryanbomber posted:I see infinite takes along the lines of “why do you play this game if you don’t care about the story?” I very much like the game part of this game, too! Best dungeon-doing experiences I've ever had in an MMO. That the game let me learn how to play decently and also kept jangling shiny cutscenes in front of my eyes as extra motivation is great. A chocolate and peanut butter combination for my no-attention-span brain. Dunno about other people tho. quote:(bonus hot take: this game’s story is about as bad as warcraft’s but for different reasons) I am totally down with a more anime-flavored kind of bad. FFXIV's plot at least seems to have some kind of long game planned out. Recent WoW doesn't seem to know what the hell it's doing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:07
|
|
|
Ryanbomber posted:I see infinite takes along the lines of “why do you play this game if you don’t care about the story?” The inverse of “why do you play this game if you don’t care about the story?” is not “why do you play this game if you only care about the story?” so that's not really a fair counter and not one anyone has claimed. Regardless I know the hours of slog my friends need to go through to do anything at my level is what's preventing them from playing the game. A skip potion gets them to stormblood, and if they just want to start hitting raids and stuff they still have a ways to go. Some even like the story they've seen (mid heavensward) but it still feels like a task to them to catch up.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:11
|
|
|
The worst part of the story is that the WoL is incredibly boring
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:11
|
|
|
*puts fist in hand, nods*
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:13
|
|
|
Ryanbomber posted:(bonus hot take: this game’s story is about as bad as warcraft’s but for different reasons) I'll fuckin fight you on that. For any dumbshit this game's story does, at least it's a) focused (at least compared to WoW,) b) involves my character, and c) isn't doing the same thing over and over again. I think they've almost admitted the story in WoW is a bit secondary - they do plan ahead these days but from what I recall, they still have a degree of "lets make an expansion that's cool, then justify how it roll it into the story." I was pretty okay with the story in WoW for the last few expansions, but boy BFA broke me with just how dumb everything has gotten.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:17
|
|
|
Ryanbomber posted:
 In seriousness, the game's writers are way, way, way too attached to Ominous Foreshadowing and very bad about ever doing anything with said foreshadowing. They do make pretty good characters which makes the purple haze plotline extra-annoying, and the actual writing and localization are strong, but the overarching story peaked in Heavensward, and even that wasn't the strongest fantasy writing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:19
|
|
|
I mean I’m just someone who finds MMOs boring as gently caress but the cheesy final fantasy storytelling is everything I love.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:20
|
|
|
FeatherFloat posted:I am totally down with a more anime-flavored kind of bad. FFXIV's plot at least seems to have some kind of long game planned out. Recent WoW doesn't seem to know what the hell it's doing. I’m the exact opposite. I don’t really care about 14’s constant line of predictable anime, but I’m excited to see what weird thing Blizzard is going to pull out of its rear end next to force the faction war or new fel-corrupted leader whatever. It’s stupid as hell, but in an exciting way! Orcs and Ostriches posted:The inverse of “why do you play this game if you don’t care about the story?” is not “why do you play this game if you only care about the story?” so that's not really a fair counter and not one anyone has claimed. Okay, maybe I worded it a little unfairly. Nobody’s claimed it directly in this conversation, but skipping cutscenes tends to cause multi-page derails in ways that “golly I don’t like crafting and have never done it before” hasn’t. I don’t really see people say you should go back to WoW/eat your entire burger because you don’t do stuff at Gold Saucer. I’ve definitely seen people who literally only play this game for the story in the past, though. Oxyclean posted:I'll fuckin fight you on that. For any dumbshit this game's story does, at least it's a) focused (at least compared to WoW,) b) involves my character, and c) isn't doing the same thing over and over again. A I agree. B is honestly one of the things I hate the most about 14’s plot because the WoL is such a terrible non-character. C we literally just went through the pre-expansion ritual of incapacitating all of the major characters we don’t need for the expansion. Meanwhile, a handful of old villains came back from the dead and barged their way into the plot faster than you can shout “MERELY A SETBACK”. Both companies are really bad at this.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:32
|
|
|
i, too, am on the edge of my seat to find out if thrall is good or bad for the next expansion
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:37
|
|
|
Verranicus posted:Never really understood people saying the patch content was a slog. If it's all new stuff to you it should be fine, 2.x has some of the coolest dungeons and trials in the game. You can't come into XIV with the WoW mindset that nothing matters before you reach the most recent content. The patch msq is god awful. I just finished this poo poo and it tested my resolve to play the game. All i wanted was to loving unlock DRK and it forced me go through so much boring rear end garbage. 2.4 is almost ok because it is faster than the poo poo before it. 2.5 and 2.55 are loving glorious and if you wear really rose tinted glasses, you’ll think the ending was actually worth it. Im curious if anyone knows, did they get a new writing team for 2.5+? I cant imagine the people who wrote the ARR garbage could write something so good.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:39
|
|
|
The entire development team had like 2 years of crunch and the first breather they got was probably mid way through 2.x to figure out how they were going to bridge to 3.0. I think that for the most part, they had a death grip on everything and they were finally able to loosen it when 2.0’s launch was an unequivocal success and that the gambit paid off.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:42
|
|
|
Ryanbomber posted:A I agree. B is honestly one of the things I hate the most about 14’s plot because the WoL is such a terrible non-character. C we literally just went through the pre-expansion ritual of incapacitating all of the major characters we don’t need for the expansion. Meanwhile, a handful of old villains came back from the dead and barged their way into the plot faster than you can shout “MERELY A SETBACK”. Both companies are really bad at this. I guess I don't really feel the same on B because I like at least feeling involved & acknowledged, even if I'm just the person who gets poo poo done and nods. Having the odd dialog choice, even if not very meaningful still leads to a sense of "personality" and engagement that I don't really get out of WoW. Idk, I just occasionally feel warm and fuzzy getting to see my cat lady be cool and heroic and actually acknowledged as such by the game and story? Like even beyond the MSQ, there's a lot of personality and flavor in class quests that's just completely absent in WoW. Sometimes it drags, but then you have poo poo like CUL 60 (I think) which was great. WoW tried to do some class themed stuff in the last expansion, but like all things they needed to tie it into gameplay and I think it suffered as a result. I feel like I'm not as hung up on C because I think the pace and tone of XIV kinda prepares me better for that sort of thing, and there just has been a stronger through-line that's almost non-existent in WoW.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:44
|
|
|
walruscat posted:Im curious if anyone knows, did they get a new writing team for 2.5+? I cant imagine the people who wrote the ARR garbage could write something so good. Most poo poo up to at least 2.3 was probably being finalized around the ARR released, and that was an incredibly hectic time for a company that just shat out an mmo that compared OK against most competition in 2013 in just about 2 years. e;fb
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:46
|
|
|
Truga posted:Most poo poo up to at least 2.3 was probably being finalized around the ARR released, and that was an incredibly hectic time for a company that just shat out an mmo that compared OK against most competition in 2013 in just about 2 years. This is fair. I played the turgid 1.0-1.2x and i thought ARR was a miracle. Guess it’s fair that the writing would suffer. It’s just that 2.5-2.55 felt like a new writing team blowing up the old garbage to start fresh in HW.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:49
|
|
|
FeatherFloat posted:FFXIV's sticking everything behind the MSQ is a fairly valid complaint, when taking into account that there are plenty of people that like them some solid hotbar MMO action and could not give a poo poo about whatever story is happening. They added the story skip items to partially address it... but like, also, the unskippable content of various sorts is also what sold me on the game. I would probably be more interested in the story if it were more like older final fantasy games. And I never cared for the shift to the accents and unique language used by a lot of the MSQ characters. I’ve also ended up skipping a lot of it because I’m not an anime fan and a lot of it feels very much like anime. I also don’t like that it requires me to button press my way through fully voiced cutscenes. And without the story itself to hang everything on, the MSQ in ARR at least (which... there are a lot) it’s impossible to avoid how fully the game embraces the most prototypical of mmo quest design. Bear asses and fetch quests and “run to this city to talk to this guy.” Teleporting makes this take less overall real time at least. And the fact that the duty finder does do level syncing mercifully makes the dungeon quest progression speed bumps less painful. Just sucks to sit in the queue as a dps. I like lore, but I’ve just never been one to enjoy exposition. And this game definitely milks the moments. I can say as wow has progressed to a lot of classes and gameplay being more twitchy as time goes on that I can appreciate the slower pace of combat a bit, being on the upper half of my 30’s. Wow has actually done quite a bit of work in the questing department though. The content scaling changes they made are really cool - it lets you fully complete a zone, so they kind of reduce that disconnected feeling you can easily get where you just abandon all the work you’re doing because it’s no longer rewarding. And they’ve done a lot of changes to where the zones have kind of their own little plot you follow, story-wise. And there’s plenty of (something I sorely felt the lack of, doing the ARR MSQ) turning in quests and picking up the next step without having to go back and talk to people. It’s not ubiquitous; usually only on long chains/where it makes sense because that coming back to town and turning in 5-10 quests for a ton of xp and some items feel-good-moment is still worth keeping around. But going back and forth constantly on a single chain is pretty miserable. I think for me it’s summed up in WoW does a lot of “show, don’t tell the story” in comparison to 14 for me. With WoW I can kind of intuit* what’s going on in the story just by what’s happening and what I’m doing. And it actually makes me interested in reading the quest text more often. FF14, though, I know I’m going to get the highlights without even trying because every time I find 4 people or collect 4 things or walk into the purple circle to fight 2-4 dudes the game is going to put exactly what and why in the middle of my screen. Not that the overall story and lore and plot of WoW is really defensible. It’s almost painful how bad it is at times, honestly. * - and a decent amount of the stuff that’s too complex to intuit accurately, they usually have voice lines that play while you’re traveling or fighting. There’s a good amount of exposition but you’re not just standing there and passively absorbing it, and I enjoy that a lot more. Ugato fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jan 31, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:51
|
|
|
I've been binge-reading the Healer Horror Stories and DF Tales on the OF and  There are some real, real bad players out there and makes me appreciate the DF's I've gotten. (Seems like bad/clueless players was a much worse problem back when you needed two classes for a job.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:57
|
|
|
Oxyclean posted:I think they've almost admitted the story in WoW is a bit secondary - they do plan ahead these days but from what I recall, they still have a degree of "lets make an expansion that's cool, then justify how it roll it into the story." I've never played WoW and don't have much interest in it, but IMO this is more or less how game development should work. By all means, write a good story, but your top priority should be making game content that is fun to play. The cutscenes are there to enhance that experience. That doesn't mean the story can't be good, but you typically wouldn't approach the story for a game (or at least, for an MMORPG) the same way you would a movie or novel.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 18:04
|
|
|
Rastan Beeza posted:There are some real, real bad players out there and makes me appreciate the DF's I've gotten. (Seems like bad/clueless players was a much worse problem back when you needed two classes for a job.) I stopped using ACT during roulettes because it was starting to depress me 
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 18:10
|
|
|
rujasu posted:I've never played WoW and don't have much interest in it, but IMO this is more or less how game development should work. By all means, write a good story, but your top priority should be making game content that is fun to play. The cutscenes are there to enhance that experience. That doesn't mean the story can't be good, but you typically wouldn't approach the story for a game (or at least, for an MMORPG) the same way you would a movie or novel. The tragedy that is the opposite, to me, was SWTOR. I loved Star Wars since I first saw it, had an entire bookshelf of the novels (thankfully I managed to dodge the worst of them) and am just a Star Wars mark in general. The story was really great for basically every class I played and they had a lot of QoL stuff which helped the game some but the design just wasn’t on point and it really fell apart toward the end for me. Still like the story and I think it’s a pretty solid successor to the KOTOR series, but yeah. Given the two extremes, I will take the perfect game with no story over good story on a crappy game, every time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 18:11
|
|
|
I read a ton of books but hardly ever watch any movies. If squenix publishes a book with the MSQ, a collection of short stories with major side quest chains, etc., I'd probably be all over it. But I really, really hate how slowly the text dialog comes, that I have to wait through animations, etc. It's so loving slow I want to die. So skip scene it is. Whatever man, different people like different things. Who cares?
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 18:37
|
|
|
totalnewbie posted:If squenix publishes a book with the MSQ, a collection of short stories with major side quest chains, etc., I'd probably be all over it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 18:42
|
|
|
Phone posted:55-60, the unlock is 60, though. Ah! Thank goodness, that will help considerably. I just unlocked Adkiragh; he opened up at level 66. By the way, what does it mean when there's this icon next to a Custom Delivery person in the Timers? Looks sorta like a shirt or something. Phone posted:Also, hit me up next time you're online. Start hoarding red scrip for the Master 5 and 6 books. That's what I've been spending my scrip on; I already got the 5 book.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 18:45
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:By the way, what does it mean when there's this icon next to a Custom Delivery person in the Timers? Looks sorta like a shirt or something. That means you can dress them up however you like (in certain attire at least, I don't recall the specifics on what gear they can wear) once you reach max satisfaction with them, I believe.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 18:47
|
|
|
Imagined posted:Me: "Just give me an option to skip the story, please." I dont feel attacked, I just think youre a whiny bitch
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 19:05
|
|
|
Control Volume posted:I dont feel attacked, I just think youre a whiny bitch It's ok, big fella, the mean old man is done criticizing your precious anime elf game. Senpai will notice you for defending its honor I'm sure.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 19:15
|
|
|
rujasu posted:I've never played WoW and don't have much interest in it, but IMO this is more or less how game development should work. By all means, write a good story, but your top priority should be making game content that is fun to play. The cutscenes are there to enhance that experience. That doesn't mean the story can't be good, but you typically wouldn't approach the story for a game (or at least, for an MMORPG) the same way you would a movie or novel. Yeah, nothing wrong with gameplay first - when it comes to most games I feel like "is it fun to play" is the most important thing to me. WoW is very fun and I think I still prefer how it feels to XIV (although there's been some idiotic changes lately.) - I think it's just that they de-prioritize the story to a pretty big degree that it causes them to have to do some pretty hamfisted stuff to try to keep it going. Like, their design pipeline feels at odds with what the story-writers want to do or something.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 19:16
|
|
|
Imagined posted:It's ok, big fella, the mean old man is done criticizing your precious anime elf game. Senpai will notice you for defending its honor I'm sure. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 19:19
|
|
|
I think that the idea that story or gameplay necessarily exist in some kind of zero sum death match with each other is a myth propagated in no small part by Blizzard to defend their own failings. They don’t. FF14 has what most people would consider a good story in no small part because they actually plan ahead. It’s really that simple. It’s easier to get invested in story and characters that are internally consistent and don’t change directions on a dime due to writers having no coherent lore bible or overarching plan. Final Fantasy 14 requires people to go through the story because that is part of their identity as a franchise. It is a story based experience. You can elect not to engage, but they consider it a core part of the experience they are trying to provide.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 19:30
|
|
|
I come down firmly on the side of enjoying things for whatever reasons you like but... man, if anime is such poison to some people that persist in playing, the rest of the game must be drat fantastic. This is a very anime game. So anime. If in the end you like cool raiding more than you hate poo poo from Japan that is so not to your taste that you're a few steps away from calling it media for gay babies, then... alright, you do you, but it's not gonna get any less anime anytime soon and there's only so much skipping they can incorporate into the leveling process.  Captain Oblivious posted:Final Fantasy 14 requires people to go through the story because that is part of their identity as a franchise. It is a story based experience. You can elect not to engage, but they consider it a core part of the experience they are trying to provide. Yeah, this. The core of the game is designed around being a Final Fantasy game, in MMO flavor. That is a particular sort of thing. Final Fantasy storytelling isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it is so tightly tied into what this game is that its hard to think of a solution for those that just want to press buttons and dodge orange stuff. FeatherFloat fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Jan 31, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 19:34
|
|
|
Control Volume posted:I dont feel attacked, I just think youre a whiny bitch Lol
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 19:35
|
|
|
I’d be interested to see actual numbers of active logins, but the patch lulls are real. A lot of people log in to do the MSQ and check out the new content on each minor point release, and then stop playing until the next minor point release.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 19:35
|
|
|
Oxyclean posted:Yeah, nothing wrong with gameplay first - when it comes to most games I feel like "is it fun to play" is the most important thing to me. WoW is very fun and I think I still prefer how it feels to XIV (although there's been some idiotic changes lately.) - I think it's just that they de-prioritize the story to a pretty big degree that it causes them to have to do some pretty hamfisted stuff to try to keep it going. Like, their design pipeline feels at odds with what the story-writers want to do or something. Wasn't it that WoW made an area based on the titan creators of the world, and instead of learning anything about that, you got a really played out long Indiana Jones references? totalnewbie posted:But I really, really hate how slowly the text dialog comes, that I have to wait through animations, etc. It's so loving slow I want to die. So skip scene it is. This is my biggest complaint. I wish they'd add a faster text function, or even make it so advancing the text skips the canned animation I've seen 2000 times. Hell, I'd even be okay if it looked jank if only so I don't spend more time looking at these animations. Characters turning to face you and then back every time you talk to them is the worst immersion.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 19:36
|
|
|
Rastan Beeza posted:Wasn't it that WoW made an area based on the titan creators of the world, and instead of learning anything about that, you got a really played out long Indiana Jones references? The only memorable WoW experience I had was the Lunk quest line in Ungoro Crater for the Mister Sword. It’s not a particularly great memory.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 19:41
|
|
|
FeatherFloat posted:I come down firmly on the side of enjoying things for whatever reasons you like but... man, if anime is such poison to some people that persist in playing, the rest of the game must be drat fantastic. This is a very anime game. So anime. I actually love the gay anime nonsense in the game. We're doing a ceremony of eternal bonding soon. I love putting together glamours, and fat chocobos, and dressing my retainers like hentai extras, and my fishing outfit. I don't know how many ways to say I love the game. The part where I play. quote:and there's only so much skipping they can incorporate into the leveling process. This is where I disagree. All they'd have to do is give me the experience of leveling a second job to 70... from the beginning, with my first job. I understand, like you said, that cutscenes are their brand since the PS1 days, but it's an odd fit for an MMO. FFXI didn't have much story at all, did it? (I never played it) Imagined fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jan 31, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 19:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 20:15 |
|
|
totalnewbie posted:I read a ton of books but hardly ever watch any movies. You can speed up text dialog, or make it progress on input. But you can't do anything about having to wait for animations. I think one of my biggest annoyances with this is in daily quests where you hand in the quest, but then have to wait 2-3 seconds locked in place for the NPC to do some emote/animation that you'll hardly noticed because your camera is zoomed out. I get why it's that way, but it kinda adds to some of the clunky feelings I get from the game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 19:50
|
|