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Greek and English are both indo European. Surely you could have used some common roots to communicate
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Jan 31, 2019 18:22
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HEY GUNS posted:i grew up in what used to be the northern fringe of New Spain. My hometown was founded in 1607 on top of a Tewa city that had been there since the Middle Ages. The next town north of us was founded in 1598 Lol my city's church was 300 years old by then, the city itself 1500
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Jan 31, 2019 18:27
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I was in Milano a couple of years ago and just sort of wandered into some ruins when crossing the road. On a small bit of land between two roads in the middle of the city there was a bit of curved wall standing on it's own and some stairs leading to an underground chamber, a tomb if I recall correctly, that was mostly medieval but had a few bits dating back to ancient times. It was pretty neat to just stumble upon something like that by complete accident.
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Jan 31, 2019 20:14
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:Lol my city's church was 300 years old by then, the city itself 1500
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Jan 31, 2019 20:25
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It is sad being in an ancient place that doesn't look it. The city I lived in in China has been inhabited for... 3000ish years but there is zero evidence of it anywhere outside a museum. Rumor has it somewhere in the city there is one building with an intact facade from the late 1800s but I never found it. You won't actually see anything that was built before like the 1960s and that's rare enough, most of it is post 1980.
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Jan 31, 2019 22:54
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Rome hasn’t continuously been a major city. It spent a thousand years below a population of fifty thousand before climbing back in the modern era.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:09
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Meanwhile in Instanbul there's a restaurant just casually hanging out beneath a 2500 year old arch from before it was even constantinople yet because there's so much ancient poo poo literally everywhere that it can't all be protected or the whole city would be a museum I assume a large part of it is the Mediterranean world's habit of building in stone, which obviously lasts a long time.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:13
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cheetah7071 posted:Meanwhile in Instanbul there's a restaurant just casually hanging out beneath a 2500 year old arch from before it was even constantinople yet because there's so much ancient poo poo literally everywhere that it can't all be protected or the whole city would be a museum
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Feb 1, 2019 00:15
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Platystemon posted:Rome hasn’t continuously been a major city. I would argue it has. The Papacy and imperial legacy gave it an importance well beyond its population, only somewhat interrupted while the Pope was in Avignon. The lowest medieval population estimate I've ever seen is about 12,000 people. That would still make it a fairly substantial city for the period, though a bit low for Italy which retained larger cities than most of the rest of Europe. But fifty thousand would make it quite large by western European standards. But I think reducing Rome to just its population is too narrow a view. The city occupies a unique place in European history.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:25
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My favourite thing in that regard is the fishing traps on the Thames. They aren't particularly old by London standards (middle or early Anglo Saxon), and they aren't at all impressive to look at. Just some old stumps of timber sticking out of the foreshore. But I love that they are a piece of ancient industry which just have just sat there in the middle of the growing city for a millennia and a half, without any protection or even anyone paying them much notice.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:26
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cheetah7071 posted:Meanwhile in Instanbul there's a restaurant just casually hanging out beneath a 2500 year old arch from before it was even constantinople yet because there's so much ancient poo poo literally everywhere that it can't all be protected or the whole city would be a museum I think they mostly do that because it makes more sense in those climates, makes things a bit cooler.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:54
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a sumerian specialist at U Chicago has died. Before you click this link imagine what he looks like--he looks exactly like how you think he will and so does his office https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...homepage%2Fcard
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Feb 1, 2019 01:03
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HEY GUNS posted:a sumerian specialist at U Chicago has died. Before you click this link imagine what he looks like--he looks exactly like how you think he will and so does his office He didn't look like I expected.
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Feb 1, 2019 01:14
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HEY GUNS posted:a sumerian specialist at U Chicago has died. Before you click this link imagine what he looks like--he looks exactly like how you think he will and so does his office I'm honestly surprised to see a Sumerian language specialist who isn't German.
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Feb 1, 2019 01:15
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Mr Enderby posted:My favourite thing in that regard is the fishing traps on the Thames. They aren't particularly old by London standards (middle or early Anglo Saxon), and they aren't at all impressive to look at. Just some old stumps of timber sticking out of the foreshore. But I love that they are a piece of ancient industry which just have just sat there in the middle of the growing city for a millennia and a half, without any protection or even anyone paying them much notice. There's a lot of similar structures on the US East coast, both early colonial traps and potentially much older Indian constructs. It's cool to find these things just out and most people are just oblivious. I don't know if there are any in Europe but in North America there are also a lot of shell middens along the coasts. Just big rear end piles of shells from when some Indians 4000 years ago camped out and ate a few million oysters. There's something oddly relatable about an archaic garbage dump.
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Feb 1, 2019 01:22
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cheetah7071 posted:Meanwhile in Instanbul there's a restaurant just casually hanging out beneath a 2500 year old arch from before it was even constantinople yet because there's so much ancient poo poo literally everywhere that it can't all be protected or the whole city would be a museum That both helps and hurts. Cutting stone is hard work, so it's a whole lot easier to reuse stone that somebody else cut centuries earlier. You could have a piece of stone cut 5,000 years ago that's been a part of six or more great buildings since then. The past gets recycled into the present. The limestone cladding of the Great Pyramids in Egypt was scavenged to make much of downtown Cairo, for example. There are also a bunch of mosques and temples from the first millennium with mismatched or even inverted columns because the builders reused a bunch of stuff left over from the Greeks and Romans.
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Feb 1, 2019 01:22
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Squalid posted:I don't know if there are any in Europe but in North America there are also a lot of shell middens along the coasts. Just big rear end piles of shells from when some Indians 4000 years ago camped out and ate a few million oysters. There's something oddly relatable about an archaic garbage dump. Tons of those all over the world. Rome has multiple hills that are actually ancient era garbage dumps.
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Feb 1, 2019 01:23
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cheetah7071 posted:Meanwhile in Instanbul there's a restaurant just casually hanging out beneath a 2500 year old arch from before it was even constantinople yet because there's so much ancient poo poo literally everywhere that it can't all be protected or the whole city would be a museum Whats the name of that restaraunt?
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Feb 1, 2019 07:07
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underage at the vape shop posted:Whats the name of that restaraunt? Arch bistro. Not the oldest structure I've ever been in, but by far the oldest structure I've ever eaten in https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g293974-d8051522-Reviews-Arch_Bistro-Istanbul.html
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Feb 1, 2019 08:40
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The oldest structure I’ve eaten in is a cave where I ate a sandwich. e: The cave I’m thinking of is thirty thousand years old. The world’s oldest caves formed three hundred million years ago. That’s a factor of ten thousand. It makes my sandwich cave look like it’s three years old. 
Platystemon fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Feb 1, 2019 |
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Feb 1, 2019 09:06
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I ate a sandwich on top of the Pyramid of the Sun at Teotihuacán, I think that dates back to around 200 CE? It's been abandoned since the mid 700s but it was already old when the city was deserted.
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Feb 1, 2019 09:28
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Deteriorata posted:That both helps and hurts. Cutting stone is hard work, so it's a whole lot easier to reuse stone that somebody else cut centuries earlier. You could have a piece of stone cut 5,000 years ago that's been a part of six or more great buildings since then. The past gets recycled into the present. I drove the length of Hadrian's wall about 17 odd years ago with my gf at the time. There's not much of it left but standing on any given spot along it, you'd see heaps of stone houses, stone fences, etc. Its all there, just not in wall form.
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Feb 1, 2019 10:29
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cheetah7071 posted:Arch bistro. Not the oldest structure I've ever been in, but by far the oldest structure I've ever eaten in Thanks
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Feb 1, 2019 10:31
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Elissimpark posted:I drove the length of Hadrian's wall about 17 odd years ago with my gf at the time. There's not much of it left but standing on any given spot along it, you'd see heaps of stone houses, stone fences, etc.
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Feb 1, 2019 20:54
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Squalid posted:There's a lot of similar structures on the US East coast, both early colonial traps and potentially much older Indian constructs. It's cool to find these things just out and most people are just oblivious. East coast shell middens get really neat, there is some evidence that people built islands and other water based structures with them over time and you get patterns/designs that look fairly deliberate. There was also a metric fuckton of shell middens on the west coast, particularly around San Francisco and a lot of early archaeologists cut their teeth on them. Almost of all of them were destroyed though and I only know of one or two still extant. I know a lot about shell middens since it was a focus of several of my courses and I worked a year or so curating one (so many bags of shell and dirt). They are a bit more complicated then garbage dumps though, they are pretty significant ritual and burial sites and you can get really high burial density in them. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Feb 1, 2019 |
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Feb 1, 2019 21:03
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During 1913, when workers were excavating subway tunnel extensions through Boston's Back Bay neighborhood, a vast amount of stakes were discovered. These turned out to be remains of a complex of fishing weirs that natives of the area had been using on the site as early as 5000 years previously. (the neighborhood had been constructed by dumping fill onto old marsh/tidal flat land) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boylston_Street_Fishweir Construction in the area since then, for further tunnels and foundations of large buildings have continued to turn up more of the structures. And scientists are now pretty sure that they'd last been used about 2000 years ago, since changes in watercourses and sea level had changed where good places to build the weirs would be. One or two of the subway stations on the route have explanatory tablets and art depicting these structures and how they were once used. It's pretty neat stuff.
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Feb 1, 2019 21:51
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahokia There is also this city from the mississippiean culture that may have had 40k people in it at one point and certainly was the hub of a much larger population even when it was a 1-2k person city. The native socities encountered in North America truly were post-apocalyspe survivors. Cahokia was abandoned before Europeans arrived, but the point is large developed cultures with urban centers existed, but so much was destroyed before Europeans even landed the US/Canada proper well never know exactly what was lost.
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Feb 1, 2019 22:10
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Either massive climate change (mini ice age effect?) or .... crashed roman trading vessel bringing plague and ruin! Or aliens I guess.
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Feb 2, 2019 03:30
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HEY GUNS posted:in new mexico there are metropolitan areas, they're just small and mostly sand Hey, Albuquerque is mostly concrete these days!
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Feb 2, 2019 10:22
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Lord Zedd-Repulsa posted:Hey, Albuquerque is mostly concrete these days!
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Feb 2, 2019 10:33
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Telsa Cola posted:East coast shell middens get really neat, there is some evidence that people built islands and other water based structures with them over time and you get patterns/designs that look fairly deliberate. That's interesting, I've never heard of them having any real use before. What do you think people were intentionally building with them? Would these structures be something people made in one season for a specific purpose or something that people worked on for years, generations even? Biologists and hydrologists are also quite interested in shell middens. Many mollusks are sensitive to pollution and habitat degradation, and freshwater species have seen severe declines in their ranges during the modern era. By looking at old middens, we can reconstruct the former ranges of endangered species, and determine what we've lost, and maybe what we could have again. As shellfish often have very specific requirements in terms of salinity, flow, temperature, and (in the Unionoida Order of freshwater mussel) glochidia host, shell middens provide reach detail on paleo-environments and their change over time. So by looking the change in the species composition over time, we can date channel avulsions, the spread or retreat of estuaries, and otherwise recreate the historical natural environment.
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Feb 3, 2019 00:57
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Squalid posted:That's interesting, I've never heard of them having any real use before. What do you think people were intentionally building with them? Would these structures be something people made in one season for a specific purpose or something that people worked on for years, generations even? Best comparison is that they are analogous to earthern mound megastructures you see and are a form of monumental architecture. Though they appear to have been built more gradually, since excavations have revealed that it least ones on the West Coast have pretty deep but localized ash lenses, which you tend to not get unless you have repeated burnings in one location over a long period of time. So you are likely not looking at one season. I have no idea if similiar construction methods were used for the shell mounds as for the earthern mounds (baskets and baskets of material being transported for use, you can actually get it done pretty fast if you have enough people and a system in place) but I doubt it was super common. Best guess for use? Ceremonial and ritual centers for connecting with the ancestors as well as a mark on the landscape saying how prosperous the area is. In the east coast I have seen several papers discussing how they sometimes get also used as artifical islands and landscapes along the coast. We use middens sorta similarly, you can guage when and what animals begin being exploited by tracking the size of the animal remains through time, there is a very noticable drop over the years as the bigger/older individuals get targeted more often then not, leading to pretty drastic decrease in size over the years. I think someone was also using middens to check if some fish species were being managed by native populations though I am not sure what came of that paper or if it was ever published. This article might interest you, though it wasn't the one i was thinking of. It goes over time frame and depositional issues. I particularly like the small section where they discuss how some mounds get redistrubted. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4849735/ Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Feb 3, 2019 |
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Feb 3, 2019 02:22
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The Whaleback midden in Damariscotta Maine was originally 1/4 mile by a 1/4 mile and 30 feet deep but was mostly excavated in the late 1800s to be ground up into chicken feed
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Feb 3, 2019 02:24
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One modern business you could transpose into ancient Rome is the thing where you stand in a line and a bunch of people put your selections into a burrito or a bowl or whatnot. Chipotle or Pei Wei. Using no New World ingredients or technology from after the 300's you could still clothe your employees in similarly-colored uniforms with name badges and have them make pasties stuffed with your choice of delicious things.
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Feb 3, 2019 02:57
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EX250 Type R posted:The Whaleback midden in Damariscotta Maine was originally 1/4 mile by a 1/4 mile and 30 feet deep but was mostly excavated in the late 1800s to be ground up into chicken feed There's something oddly disturbing about literally eating our record of the past. Pity how efficiently we destroyed these archaeological sites. I assume there must have been some similar locations in Europe and Asia, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were even more efficiently mined out of existence. That paper looks interesting, I'd like to learn more about this pre-Columbian Florida kingdom, though I doubt many details survived the conquistadors.
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Feb 3, 2019 03:09
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Squalid posted:There's something oddly disturbing about literally eating our record of the past. Pity how efficiently we destroyed these archaeological sites. I assume there must have been some similar locations in Europe and Asia, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were even more efficiently mined out of existence. Also rising sea levels have been a bitch with coastal arch work. Its also the reason the soluteran hypothesis is still a thing. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Feb 3, 2019 |
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Feb 3, 2019 03:27
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What was the gradual process of the title of Emperor being diminished as so sacred a thing in Europe? In 800 it was believed that God ordained that there could only be one Christian Empire on Earth (obviously the Pope didn’t count the Romans in the East) but flash forward a thousand years to the 19th century and there were at least 3 plus the British in India.
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Feb 3, 2019 04:26
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Well the British weren't Catholic by that point, so that probably had something to do with it.
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Feb 3, 2019 04:31
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Mantis42 posted:Well the British weren't Catholic by that point, so that probably had something to do with it. So what you’re saying is the Austro-Hungarians were the only legitimate Empire?
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Feb 3, 2019 04:58
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Squalid posted:There's something oddly disturbing about literally eating our record of the past. Pity how efficiently we destroyed these archaeological sites. I assume there must have been some similar locations in Europe and Asia, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were even more efficiently mined out of existence. I actually looked it up after I posted to double check my memory and it /was/ the largest midden on the east coast... Wikipedia posted:Located on this stretch of river bank, now largely in the hands of the state or conservation organizations, are eleven shell middens. Two of these are famous: the Whaleback Shell Midden, now part of a state historic site, was the east coast's largest shell midden until it was commercially excavated for lime in the late 19th century. Opposite it stands the Glidden Midden, now the largest midden, which escaped that fate because its owner refused permission for commercial excavation.
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Feb 3, 2019 05:07
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