|
I am earning 50k, remote web developer with a small company of 12 people, work 50 hr weeks typically. Been doing this nearly two years. LAMP Stack, pretty basic JQuery, old version of Symfony PHP Framework. I really don't know what to think anymore about what I am worth or what to expect for future jobs because my experience of working with a vaguely legacy codebase has kicked my rear end a bunch of times. This stuff is hard, if it was easy everyone would be doing it. This is also my first full time job as a web developer. Before this I was basically an unemployed layabout after University for about two years. I have almost no frame of reference to workplaces in this industry so overall I have been really happy just being able to work remotely in general has allowed me to move (twice) now to where I wanted to be. I had some really bad bosses to in my previous jobs so my current boss seems reasonable by most standards. My remote working experience has been characterized by working with a senior who has been around the product since this company began and knows everything about its storied history/ legacy of being in development for several years. There is also a significant part of the product that is a very specialized form of development he does relating to 3D modeling that I know nothing about/ am miles away from being to develop on. I am pretty sure the company would fail if he were to leave. So really for nearly two years I have done HTML/CSS/JS/PHP for a single app, a bunch of small business integrations, a shitload of googling and stack overflow, in the shadow of a senior who really does the ops/is integral to the business. Im not sure there is a single role I fulfill which he could not do but for saving him some time/switching contexts. A couple of times I have helped with Git issues and I maybe am the most qualified person with Git at work but thats about it. Ive reached a point of feeling like I have become complacent. Ive been to like 5 meetup talks about React but never had to use it at work so never really bothered to learn it. I felt like I took long breaks during the day today and a nap still knowing that I will be able to get committed what I need for the next meeting. Ive realized Ive generally stopped thinking about my progression as a web developer and lost any approach to continued learning other than whats necessary for the ticket at hand to get through the next week. I am about to go on a holiday soon but maybe thats just what I need. Murrah fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Jan 26, 2019 |
#
?
Jan 26, 2019 03:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 05:02 |
|
|
Your career has ground to a halt, find a job at a company where you'll have a chance to learn and grow
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2019 04:28
|
|
|
Volmarias posted:Your career has ground to a halt, find a job at a company where you'll have a chance to learn and grow A bit harsh, but accurate.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2019 04:51
|
|
|
I wouldn't even say harsh. It just sounds like it's time to move on. And you can do way better than 50k as a competent developer. Not even counting the 50 hour week bit you dropped. This article I came across today seems super relevant: https://hackernoon.com/the-worst-career-advice-i-ever-received-54aaf2a50c93
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2019 05:04
|
|
|
I have never gotten paid less than 6 figures for a full time job computer touchin I went to plutocrat school, but you should be able to get drat close to 6 figgies
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2019 05:10
|
|
|
bob dobbs is dead posted:I have never gotten paid less than 6 figures for a full time job computer touchin The silicon valley pay bubble doesn't make this true everywhere. Here in Socialist Kangarooland you're unlikely to hit six figgies until you hit a senior / executive position, at which point you're more likely to be a manager than slinging code. Unless you're on that contractor grift, then God bless and full steam ahead.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2019 09:47
|
|
|
Aaronicon posted:The silicon valley pay bubble doesn't make this true everywhere. Here in Socialist Kangarooland you're unlikely to hit six figgies until you hit a senior / executive position, at which point you're more likely to be a manager than slinging code. Similar to socialist Netherlands, for the perm as well as the contractor bits. Relatively speaking the pay is still way above average.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2019 13:08
|
|
|
Na the only places that have any programmers in the entire world are Silicon Valley and maybe NYC, apparently.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2019 13:14
|
|
|
feedmegin posted:Na the only places that have any programmers in the entire world are Silicon Valley and maybe NYC, apparently. R e m o t e
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2019 13:47
|
|
|
Murrah posted:I am pretty sure the company would fail if he were to leave. If he can't figure out his own git stuff and he's not helping you to grow your skills and paycheck, he's a bad leader and not as good of a programmer as you may think.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2019 18:36
|
|
|
Volmarias posted:Your career has ground to a halt, find a job at a company where you'll have a chance to learn and grow This. I left my last job (I don't count the 7 months at my actual last job I had to leave because they sold to a competitor and hosed us big time) because my boss left and there was now an opening to lead the department (granted there are only like 4 of us, but still). The more senior developer than me explicitly said "I have zero interest in taking on more responsibility", so I said I was interested. I was asked to submit a formal application, then immediately told they were going to hire externally. They had also been promising "compensation analysis" was ongoing for almost a year. They wanted a "flat" organization, which is a good idea on paper, but the reality is generally a programmer with years of experience and education and specialized skills and knowledge is worth way more than someone in sales. This continued to drag on and we were being paid in promises, essentially. I loved that company. I was underpaid, but it was a non-profit whose mission I believed in and I worked remote with freedom to make my own schedule, they were really chill if I needed to take a random Friday off for an event, etc. I loved my coworkers. As much as I hated that they were all crunchy vegans so our annual retreat was at a Quaker compound that only served twigs and leaves for meals, they were good people. But I had to move on. If they're hiring externally, in such a small company I had zero chance to advance to the next logical step in my career....plus, yes, I would really resent having to work under someone paid more than me who was brought in from outside the company (makes no sense, if you want the change to be as minimally disruptive as possible, why not hire someone for the bottom rung developer role and move me up so you have someone who knows all of our projects and goals and such to interface with the other departments). If you haven't increased pay for IT by now after 2 years, I have no confidence you ever will. At a certain point, you just have to analyze it rationally and make the best move for your own well-being.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2019 19:33
|
|
|
Double post but today marks exactly one year since I got on a plane to Nashville to spend my first week at this job at headquarters. I think the easiest way to sum things up is to note that my resume is still a year out of date.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2019 01:46
|
|
|
If anyone else is bothering to fill out the SO Developer Survey this year, when you get to the "most influential person in tech this year" text box, please consider giving a shout out to my man here.
Munkeymon fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Jan 29, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2019 06:09
|
|
|
I took it but I put "your mom" instead.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2019 06:34
|
|
|
How do you help a co-worker who isn't doing too great? It's another developer. They have a good personality, but they're not that good technically, and they might be fired/not extended.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2019 23:50
|
|
|
You could pair with them, help out by writing pseudocode, offer to review half-completed code to make sure they're on the right track, or something along those lines. All of that eats up your time, though, so be careful or get buy-in. I had a coworker once who needed extensive hand-holding, to the point where another coworker would write out basically complete pseudocode and then later check in to find that the only progress they'd made was to delete the pseudocode and continue staring at a blank class. Management ultimately said to stop helping and just let them sink or swim, because all the help was taking up too much of everybody else's time. (They sank.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 00:08
|
|
|
Mini rant about an annoying user: We have a user at another office who is such an entitled baby. I get emails that read like he's ordering at the drive-through: "I need this tool to generate two duplicate reports." "I need a history capability." Users at this office usually lead in by asking if they can bounce an idea off of us, or something like that. And plenty of times, management shouts them down! Yet if Mr. Entitled asks for something, it's like "hey could you go ahead and do what he's asking for? I know it's a hack but meh". When I've implemented stuff for this guy in the past, his response has been: "  Took long enough"or "  I know I'm demanding, but that's because I'm an excellent engineer and I require the best tools to deliver the caliber of results that I do"I'm an engineer too, dumbass.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 00:59
|
|
|
My Rhythmic Crotch posted:Mini rant about an annoying user: Next time add in his feature, but make it so it works for everyone but him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 02:04
|
|
|
Ither posted:How do you help a co-worker who isn't doing too great? This is always a difficult case. I'm reminded of a job I had where they hired someone to become my team's new technical team lead because the current one would leave in a couple of months. Nobody in the team was asked if she would be a good match. When she started her job we immediately noticed how utterly lousy her code was. We tried teaching her some things during code review and pair programming but after a couple weeks we noticed it really didn't help. Turns out she previously worked at some sort of company that is run by 90% "software architects" who do nothing all day but talk in meeting rooms about what software architecture should look like, and maybe 10% actual devs. She was from the former group. She made strong, convincing arguments in any highover discussion but she didn't seem to understand even the most basic of code quality standards. When we realized nothing was improving, she was certainly not capable of leading a code-oriented team, and she would only show us and the company down, we brought our concerns to management. This brought management into a bit of a difficult position because by then she had been employed for over a month, meaning employer protection laws were in full swing and unless she literally put the office on fire or something it'd take them a year to fire her. And then I quit that job because I got a better opportunity elsewhere. So I have no idea what they did with her, last I heard before I left was them talking about putting her in a position where she could do no harm.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 08:04
|
|
|
Every time I hear bullshit about how real value comes from making decisions and leading/managing a team, I remember that without the code itself you wouldn’t have a loving product to sell. Individual contributors aren’t going anywhere.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 13:02
|
|
|
It's almost like people are good at different things, and you should hire people who are good at the things you need more of to build a successful product.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 13:27
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:Every time I hear bullshit about how real value comes from making decisions and leading/managing a team, I remember that without the code itself you wouldn’t have a loving product to sell. Individual contributors aren’t going anywhere. Like all things, a balance is required. All devs and no direction is just as much a disaster as 2 managers for every dev, while a scrum master jerks it from the closet.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 13:37
|
|
|
I clearly did not say that and was talking about that very unbalance in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 13:45
|
|
|
Carbon dioxide posted:... meaning employer protection laws were in full swing and unless she literally put the office on fire or something it'd take them a year to fire her. almost certain this is incorrect but it is still a widely held belief around the place culturally. Every actual example I have looked at its been the case that the person could have been fired with even a basic amount of process, like one performance review meeting and then a follow up to cross all the t's but maybe your jurisdiction is really actually different ? Its more likely its just a bureaucratic and uncomfortable process within your *former* company, not anything strictly legal e: I mean if its USA and in tech, its almost certain to be at will employment. Some contracts are different, requiring just cause. Its possible to get just cause out of a few performance reviews, if there is really a problem with her, and not the companies management Murrah fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jan 31, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:09
|
|
|
Murrah posted:almost certain this is incorrect but it is still a widely held belief around the place culturally. Every actual example I have looked at its been the case that the person could have been fired with even a basic amount of process, like one performance review meeting and then a follow up to cross all the t's but maybe your jurisdiction is really actually different ? He cited employee protection laws. It's almost certainly not an at-will state, probably not even the US at all 
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 21:26
|
|
|
Wibla posted:He cited employee protection laws. It's almost certainly not an at-will state, probably not even the US at all Amazingly, places that aren't America exist, shockingly have tech industries, and sometimes people from those places even post here!
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 22:00
|
|
|
Wibla posted:He cited employee protection laws. “Employer” protection laws, actually, which I at first took as wry commentary but then decided was just a typo.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 22:01
|
|
|
Subjunctive posted:“Employer” protection laws, actually, which I at first took as wry commentary but then decided was just a typo. It was a typo and I'm in Europe.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 22:03
|
|
|
My bad for being Americo-centric, this website is often that way so I speculated. I lived in New Zealand which had somewhat stronger protections than at will employment. It was still really easy to fire people if you followed some basic procedure but because its a uncomfortable thing people will seemingly mess it up or be really risk averse. The process was basically documenting a problem, giving the employee notice and a chance to improve, then documenting that thing that was still a problem despite the concrete notice. It could be anything reasonable. If a person is actually loving up at their job and the job or context around it is not bullshit anyways you will find a metric or point to fire someone. op-eds in the newspapers were still always full of crappy small business owners talking about how hard it is fire people because the process was too much so I just instinctively scoff at this notion. My life experience is that organizations are often crappy in many ways and its easier to say something like "because of the law it will take a year to fire this person" rather than "Our management is nebulous and we are all just trying to make paychecks. We dont really care enough to execute this process efficiently because it is uncomfortable" Murrah fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Jan 31, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 22:51
|
|
|
Subjunctive posted:“Employer” protection laws, actually, which I at first took as wry commentary but then decided was just a typo. Reading it in context helps  1 month is stricter than Norway even, quite impressive.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 23:53
|
|
|
Murrah posted:My bad for being Americo-centric, this website is often that way so I speculated. For what it's worth every employer I've ever been at in the US has followed the same except in the cases of sexual harassment. I've had to write up multiple 'Personal Improvement Plans' over the years including things like, "Stop being a dick to people." And including leading to terminating someone when they were still a dick to people.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 02:06
|
|
|
Wibla posted:Reading it in context helps Well I was simplifying things. The way this works is uh, when a company hires someone, the first month is usually contractually considered a probation period during which either party can decide to stop immediately. I am actually not sure what's the max time of a probation period, but in all my jobs so far it has been a month. After that you get in the regular part of your contract, where the rule basically is that an employer can fire you for doing very disrupting things. In that case they're only allowed to fire you on the spot. If it takes them a day to decide, apparently it wasn't disrupting enough. Otherwise, basically an employer can fire you if they have solid reasoning, and I think this also means they pay you some money for the months to come so you don't immediately fall into social welfare if you don't find a new job right away. All this is a rather formal process that takes time and an employee can choose to sue their employer if they disagree with the reasoning. In practice, it turns out that stuff like "we have to scale down because we're making a loss" is usually considered a good enough reason - especially if the company shows they're proactively helping leavers find a new job. Another common thing is that often employees start out with a 1-year contract. After a year, the contract gets renewed, or not. After a maximum of three consecutive 1-year contracts, the next renewal legally has to be a contract for indeterminate time, meaning there's never a point where the employer can just end the contract without going through that formal procedure. In my experience software companies are looking for devs so badly that if you show any amount of promise and skill during your first year, it's likely that you immediately get the indeterminate time contact after that. That's not the case at all in other fields of work but devs are generally in a good spot. On the flip side, it's not allowed for employees to quit on the spot, they usually have to give at least one month advance notice to their boss. Carbon dioxide fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Feb 1, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 07:54
|
|
|
Carbon dioxide posted:On the flip side, it's not allowed for employees to quit on the spot, they usually have to give at least one month advance notice to their boss. That seems very strange to me. What stops someone who wants to leave but is stuck for the notice period from sabotaging the company and making everyone miserable?
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 08:11
|
|
|
Hughlander posted:For what it's worth every employer I've ever been at in the US has followed the same except in the cases of sexual harassment. I've had to write up multiple 'Personal Improvement Plans' over the years including things like, "Stop being a dick to people." And including leading to terminating someone when they were still a dick to people. The weirder cultural divide is that in Europe a lot of this carries the force of law. Such as aforementioned Norway - where the *fastest* way to get fired from a permanent position - without breaking any laws - pretty much involves: -Show up drunk, get a warning -Show up drunk, get a warning -Show up drunk, get ordered to rehab -Don't go to rehab -Show up drunk Firing someone seems to pretty much be a 'bring in a lawyer' type process. Even in a probationary period at the start of employment, there still has be a solid and documented reason to terminate the employment, it just doesn't need be quite so drastic.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 08:13
|
|
|
Carbon dioxide posted:
You are Dutch! And wrong. An employee can quit on the spot (terminate the contract) for similar reasons as an employer can: extremely disruptive behavior. For example, my BOL quit his management job when he was in a meeting where basically a new CEO stripped him publicly of all his mandate but made explicit that he would be still held responsible for the results. So my BOL got up, said "This will make it impossible for me to do my work and I quit effective immediately." and left the meeting. There was probably other things ongoing as well. In general it has to be a "severe" reason such as an employer insulting, threatening or intimidating an employee. Violence in the workplace is also a good enough reason. Let me add that a notice period can be contractually expanded to three months and is often done so for crucial IT workers. People are expected not to sabotage things as employees are not expected to be assholes, it is simply not done. Also, we have a legal minimum of 20 days of paid leave, usable only for vacations and relaxing, that are used after quitting a job to shorten the notice period. Many companies allow for 25-30 days a year, some up to 45. This is vacation time, sickleave is not deducted from that. Keetron fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Feb 1, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 10:47
|
|
|
I know a senior IT guy in Belgium who recently changed jobs. He was required to give his employer 13 weeks of notice due to the amount of time he had worked there. The labor law landscape in Europe is basically unimaginable to those of us in the US, heh, where you can both quit and be fired with zero notice or cause most of the time. Mostly for the better! But it must make hiring quite interesting.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 12:01
|
|
|
Hiring can be a ballache, yeah.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 12:09
|
|
|
In the UK not fulfilling your notice could in theory lead to civil action due to the various costs you incur on your employer but in reality it stops at withholding notice pay (they legally are not allowed to withhold pay for work you have done). Its very much stacked in favour of the employee, honestly as it should be in my opinion. This does lead to some quite long probation periods though, at my current place its 6 months, but after that, unless you do continual severe infractions its pretty hard to fire you. Notice period is 2 weeks for most employees and a month for more senior (I think upper management have a 2-3 month but that's only a handful of people)
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 12:22
|
|
|
It’s hilarious that Mexico also has very strict labor laws and firing people loving hurts. Depending on how long they’ve been at the company you have to pay them more severance. Of course this also being Mexico you hear horror stories like companies making you sign your resignation letter and offer letter so that they can fire you at will and not pay you poo poo. Other cool stuff includes mandatory vacations starting at 6 days and increases by 2 for each year at the company. a vacation bonus so that you can actually use your vacation days and go somewhere. A Christmas bonus equal to 15 days pay and every year part of the profits the company makes must be divided amongst the workers and paid. Janitor Prime fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Feb 1, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 19:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 05:02 |
|
|
Keetron posted:Let me add that a notice period can be contractually expanded to three months and is often done so for crucial IT workers. People are expected not to sabotage things as employees are not expected to be assholes, it is simply not done. Also, we have a legal minimum of 20 days of paid leave, usable only for vacations and relaxing, that are used after quitting a job to shorten the notice period. Many companies allow for 25-30 days a year, some up to 45. This is vacation time, sickleave is not deducted from that. So what you're saying is that in some places people still follow the social contract? How quaint. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 20:37
|
|