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Numenera is not interesting, but it is somehow more interesting than this.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:10
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O I would legit fail a student in my Intro to Ling courses if they said this poo poo at the end of the semester. This is some amazing ignorance.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:11
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Halloween Jack posted:Numenera is not interesting, but it is somehow more interesting than this.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:14
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FMguru posted:Is the computer game any good? I was a big fan of Planescape:Torment back in the day, so a spiritual successor by some of the same people sounds right up my alley, but then...Numenera. Is the world setting interesting enough when removed from Cook's ruleset and fed to you in CRPG-sized chunks? I'm only a few hours into it, but it uses a lot of the rules from the TT game, so it's not totally removed. That being said, your dudes in the puter game have health pools separate from their stat pools, so that's one change that people give the TT rpg a lot of flack for.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:18
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My understanding is that it uses a heavily modified system which (necessarily) omits all the attempts at narrative mechanics. So, possibly. I've heard that Pillars of Eternity is not perfect but is a pretty good game for people who miss Neverwinter and D&D based vidjamagamez.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:18
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Yeah alright. It's a dumb derail and I'm not convinced I'm wrong despite appeal to authority, but I don't wanna drag this out any more so go ahead, you win, there is no conventional or expected emphasis and you can totally say numenera, manah manah and that doesn't sound wrong to anyone unless they're stupid.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:25
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Halloween Jack posted:Numenera don't care how it is pronounced, sing the drat song
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Feb 1, 2019 00:25
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Halloween Jack posted:My understanding is that it uses a heavily modified system which (necessarily) omits all the attempts at narrative mechanics. Pillars of Eternity 1 was decently fun, and it perfectly replicated my experience of 2nd edition infinity games in that I had no real clue what I was doing, rules wise and didn't care to learn. The setting was interesting, but had this weird thing going for it where it seemed to be setting up a dilemma about whether it's weird soul-based magical technology was evil or not while being just about as obviously and transparently evil as you'd imagine soul-based magic could be. Maybe it was some allegory for capitalism, maybe that's giving it too much credit. It did have a big huge dungeon in it, which is always good in a video game. Haven't played 2.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:26
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Halloween Jack posted:My understanding is that it uses a heavily modified system which (necessarily) omits all the attempts at narrative mechanics. Poe2 is good, they just added a fully turn based mode too
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Feb 1, 2019 00:27
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Leperflesh posted:Yeah alright. It's a dumb derail and I'm not convinced I'm wrong despite appeal to authority, but I don't wanna drag this out any more so go ahead, you win, there is no conventional or expected emphasis and you can totally say numenera, manah manah and that doesn't sound wrong to anyone unless they're stupid. This isn't an appeal to authority. This is an appeal to "any even vague knowledge of the concepts involved".
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Feb 1, 2019 00:35
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yeah literally when multiple people with actual education in the subject at hand are telling you "no you are wrong" it is not an appeal to authority.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:52
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Kai Tave posted:It isn't and they aren't. Numenera is just D&D with a vague Book of the New Sun patina over it. If Monte Cook claims Wolfe as an inspiration I won't be surprised, but I will be in agony. The Book of the New Sun is fantastic and deserves a weird-rear end narrative game in its future society that's all about weird narration tricks and picaresque character relationships. The fact that there is an Urth RPG setting, but it's GURPS, is the second most monkey's paw ttrpg thing in the world.
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Feb 1, 2019 01:17
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By all accounts, GURPS New Sun is a really great book that just had the unfortunate luck of being published in the nineties. Similarly, the GURPS Discworld books go heavily into the narrative and thematic conventions of the books and how to recreate them. They just do so right before adapting the finicky, skill-based GURPS Magic to Discworld.
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Feb 1, 2019 01:23
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Zurui posted:By all accounts, GURPS New Sun is a really great book that just had the unfortunate luck of being published in the nineties. Never having played GURPS Discworld, I feel like the minute a player casts an actual spell they've missed the point. The correct way to do magic in Discworld is when nobody else is around to see it, and mostly it's just self-targeted sleep spells after locking yourself in your office after lunch.
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Feb 1, 2019 01:47
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Zurui posted:By all accounts, GURPS New Sun is a really great book that just had the unfortunate luck of being published in the nineties. It's actually pretty mediocre. Rather than trying to make a coherent setting book that you can run games in, it falls into the adaptation trap of just going through the books and turning it into material - more of a reference guide than something that actually helps you run a campaign.
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Feb 1, 2019 02:00
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I could never get past a few hours into PoE 1 because I found the world, characters and the fluff just so incredibly boring What I'm trying to say is play Tyranny you philistines
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Feb 1, 2019 02:44
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Xiahou Dun posted:This isn't an appeal to authority. This is an appeal to "any even vague knowledge of the concepts involved". Monte Cook made up the name of his product, and decided how his product's name was pronounced. Neither your PhD nor "vague knowledge of the concepts involved" are meaningful here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydg9QjVpm1w
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Feb 1, 2019 03:34
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HerraS posted:I could never get past a few hours into PoE 1 because I found the world, characters and the fluff just so incredibly boring yea they really bury the lede on what makes the world interesting.
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Feb 1, 2019 03:47
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homullus posted:Monte Cook made up the name of his product, and decided how his product's name was pronounced. Neither your PhD nor "vague knowledge of the concepts involved" are meaningful here. You guys are really, really dedicated to critiquing a (pretty funny) joke.
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Feb 1, 2019 03:52
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Reveilled posted:Pillars of Eternity 1 was decently fun, and it perfectly replicated my experience of 2nd edition infinity games in that I had no real clue what I was doing, rules wise and didn't care to learn. The setting was interesting, but had this weird thing going for it where it seemed to be setting up a dilemma about whether it's weird soul-based magical technology was evil or not while being just about as obviously and transparently evil as you'd imagine soul-based magic could be. Maybe it was some allegory for capitalism, maybe that's giving it too much credit. It did have a big huge dungeon in it, which is always good in a video game. For what it's worth, animancy isn't really an allegory for anything beyond "science." It's treated exactly how certain sciences were treated in the same general time period in the real world. Lots of people with big ideas, making a lot of horrifying mistakes, generally disproving the divine. Lots of Pillars 1 was very off the cuff due to the general restraints around it's creation, and it suffers because of it; the writing gets a bit mish mashed and dry.
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Feb 1, 2019 03:54
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HerraS posted:play Tyranny you philistines
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Feb 1, 2019 03:56
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Joe Slowboat posted:If Monte Cook claims Wolfe as an inspiration I won't be surprised, but I will be in agony. The Book of the New Sun is fantastic and deserves a weird-rear end narrative game in its future society that's all about weird narration tricks and picaresque character relationships.
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Feb 1, 2019 05:39
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Impermanent posted:yea they really bury the lede on what makes the world interesting. also HerraS posted:What I'm trying to say is play Tyranny you philistines
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Feb 1, 2019 05:45
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Tyranny is probably my least favorite Obsidian game. People rightly give Fallout 3 poo poo for having your "moral" choices being limited to help/murder, so the concept of providing players with a multitude of moral options within the seldom explored "bad guy" side of the equation is really interesting. Unfortunately, the game is extremely bad at hiding the seams in its systems, and it very quickly becomes clear that your choices aren't all that important. Additionally, the game seems, possibly deliberately, written in such a way that you can't really play as an interesting/cool villain. You are a pawn, and the few dialogue options you're given in which you assert yourself, or say something fun/badass are immediately followed by some kind of chastisement from NPCs with more agency than you. For masochistic players it is possibly an interesting exploration of what it is like to be a cog in the machine of an evil empire, but the game advertised itself as being a game where your actions would matter a great deal and that it would be the game to provide players who gravitate towards evil characters with more meaningful choices than kill/lie/steal and I feel like it never delivered on either.
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Feb 1, 2019 06:41
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Tyranny doesn't let you be cool and interesting because no one in a fascist regime is cool or interesting. Same reason Mafia 2 made sure to reinforce how the highest position you could aspire to be in organized crime was one step above fall guy.
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Feb 1, 2019 06:47
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Darth Vader. Like, I get it, and yeah that's interesting, but it's not how the game was marketed. That's an incredibly niche experience, one I am not sure most people would find enjoyable, and in any case one that fell short of expectations. Also, the game railroads you very badly and is bad at hiding it; the first act is a painful slog that ultimately does not matter as you're just presented with your "choice" at the end of the chapter anyway. Even if one is being extremely charitable and saying this is deliberate commentary it felt disappointing in an Obsidian game that made such a big deal out of its morality system. thotsky fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Feb 1, 2019 |
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Feb 1, 2019 06:57
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Tyranny does have an obvious amoral "gently caress you all I'm in charge now" path and a harder-to-find sort-of-good-guy path you can follow as well. It's an interesting setting, but it suffers from an abrupt ending and from the fact that it is absolutely piss easy on even the highest difficulty setting.
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Feb 1, 2019 07:01
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It's been a while, but if I remember correctly you're like halfway through the game before you're given an opportunity to "take power for yourself" through carefully choosing a very specific order of dialogue options. The game does not appear to want you to pick this option and if you do, the only real outcome is that now all factions and all but one or two NPCs hate you. The choice is not really fleshed out or anything, you still have to do all the same quests that give the same rewards, but now fighting is the only option for every location. It felt like they waited way too long to give you any sort of agency, and then punish you if you do say "gently caress you" to the path thr game has placed before you.
thotsky fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Feb 1, 2019 |
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Feb 1, 2019 07:10
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Wasn't the original plan for Tyranny to be a much shorter game than it ended up being, with much bigger differences on replay? But then they decided that wouldn't work and people would play it once and yell at them, so they just crammed everything in.
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Feb 1, 2019 07:17
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It happens right at the end of the introductory act. The game is not very long but I don't think it's halfway through, though maybe I'm wrong. Anyway it's better than actually working with either of the primary factions who are both godawful.
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Feb 1, 2019 07:18
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I ended up feeling quite positive about PoE 1 but I'll admit it does start out with a bit of a slog before you get anywhere interesting. It's a morose game too, basically everything in it is tinged with melancholy which I don't think helps with people bouncing off it. Even the lighter 'joke' characters have some sad quest designed to make you feel bad. I do think the game could have done a much better job of explaining your character's magic gimmick and also nearly anything at all about the villain prior to the last hour of the game. The White March DLCs were really good in my recollection, though you need to play several hours of the main story to access it. PoE 2 was much easier to get into but I stopped my playthrough when I remembered there were going to be a bunch of DLCs and I'd actually prefer to play the most complete version of it. I haven't had the CRPG itch again for a while so I've not got round to that. I liked Tyranny but I feel like it was marketed as being something it fundamentally was not and I wish the second half of the game was as good as the first chapter. It was a frustrating game because I felt like it was nearly very good but missed the mark in a few pretty glaring ways so there was a lot of wasted potential. Archaeology Hat fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Feb 1, 2019 |
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Feb 1, 2019 12:04
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Leperflesh posted:Yeah alright. It's a dumb derail and I'm not convinced I'm wrong despite appeal to authority, but I don't wanna drag this out any more so go ahead, you win, there is no conventional or expected emphasis and you can totally say numenera, manah manah and that doesn't sound wrong to anyone unless they're stupid. I offer you this tribute, which will scan perfectly with Mahnamahna: Oh, Leperflesh! (You scansion pedant!) Oh, Leperflesh! (You pedant, you!) Oh, Leperflesh! (De-rail-ing pedant, a pedant, a pedant, a pedant, what a massive thread derail!)
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Feb 1, 2019 12:36
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homullus posted:Back when he Kickstarted it, I asked Monte Cook how he pronounced "Numenera," and he said it's like "New Men Era." So it doesn't scan the same as "Mah Ną Mah Ną." Oh god, that probably is where the name comes from, doesnt it. The new era of men.
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Feb 1, 2019 14:22
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01011001 posted:Oh god, that probably is where the name comes from, doesn’t it. The new era of men. Hahaha. Monte Cook is the true prophet of gaming. This is Known.
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Feb 1, 2019 14:37
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01011001 posted:Oh god, that probably is where the name comes from, doesn’t it. The new era of men. I always figured he'd just cribbed a bit from Tolkien while he was wholesale stealing from Wolfe and Vance.
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Feb 1, 2019 14:44
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How Can This Be from the master of subtlety that brought us Monte Cook's World Of Darkness ft. The Masquerade Is Over, Just Go Kill Monsters Now.
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Feb 1, 2019 14:45
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I think we can all agree the problems with pronouncing Numenera is due to the lack of proper fantasy apostrophes. If he had written it N'um'ene'ra, we wouldn't be having this argument.
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Feb 1, 2019 15:00
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Biomute posted:Darth Vader. Too many games with a political conflict either don't give you choices besides HELP SIDE A vs. HELP SIDE B, or give you GOOD GUY vs. BAD GUY that are orthogonal to both sides yet don't actually allow you to take a nuanced position. And too many don't let you progress beyond going from Low Level Flunky to Really Valuable Flunky. Skyrim, for example. Every faction quest in the game allows you to become the new leader, but in the Civil War you're just playing assassin for one side or another.
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Feb 1, 2019 15:06
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Halloween Jack posted:
At least some games let you HATE NEWSPAPERS.
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Feb 1, 2019 15:08
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Zurui posted:How Can This Be from the master of subtlety that brought us Monte Cook's World Of Darkness ft. The Masquerade Is Over, Just Go Kill Monsters Now. It did sort of deliver on the oWoD's oft renegged promise of "FULL CROSSOVER NOW", the problem is that it did this by turning all the splats into classes and then making two of the classes suck out loud due to hilariously bad upkeep requirements.
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Feb 1, 2019 15:08
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