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and one of the unearthed arcanas had a <TOTALLY NOT PSIONICS BUT ACTUALLY PSIONICS> class but I don't think it went above level 10.
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Jan 24, 2019 21:04
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Every class in 5e could just be a refluffed Warlock
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Jan 24, 2019 21:08
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Sampatrick posted:WotC abandoning Eberron is half of what makes me like 4e more than 5e. 4e is also better in almost every mechanical respect but the Eberron thing is just infuriating. Eberron is the coolest thing that D&D has. strange way to spell Dark Sun and/or Spelljammer that said 4E has the best take on Dark Sun too so it's still a good justification 
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Jan 24, 2019 21:11
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Can we get a Spelljammer port to 4e?
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Jan 24, 2019 21:14
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Sampatrick posted:Can we get a Spelljammer port to 4e?
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Jan 24, 2019 21:16
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Sampatrick posted:Every class in 5e could just be a refluffed Warlock
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Jan 31, 2019 22:05
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Wait, isn't that already in 4e?
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Jan 31, 2019 23:01
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I still want an actual Binder class in 4E, instead of the half-assed garbage they put out in Essentials with the name.
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Jan 31, 2019 |
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Jan 31, 2019 23:10
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I want a truenamer class that isn't literally broken and doesn't work
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Jan 31, 2019 23:11
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S.J. posted:Wait, isn't that already in 4e? Well I mean, you do get As, Es, Ds, and Us, but it's an Essentials striker class so your "core" is an at-will with potent rider effects.
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Jan 31, 2019 23:19
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Hexblades are great flavor-wise, and the mechanics of the pact weapon are really neat, but ultimately hexblades end up just being crappy warlocks, who are already not-great strikers.
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Feb 1, 2019 02:18
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Warlocks ironically are a pretty good striker/controller hybrid though, at least the one on my game is.
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Feb 1, 2019 02:43
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Hexblades pale in comparison with Warlock|Executioners. It's partially because that hybrid double dips in ways that probably shouldn't be possible, and partially because the hexblade is so anemic after like, mid-heroic. The lesson is that Essentials is bad. That said, Warlock|Executioner is still a lot of fun if you don't get caught in chargespam forever.
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Feb 1, 2019 03:57
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ProfessorCirno posted:Hexblades pale in comparison with Warlock|Executioners. It's partially because that hybrid double dips in ways that probably shouldn't be possible, and partially because the hexblade is so anemic after like, mid-heroic. How does Warlock/Exec work?
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Feb 1, 2019 04:02
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Dick Burglar posted:Hexblades are great flavor-wise, and the mechanics of the pact weapon are really neat, but ultimately hexblades end up just being crappy warlocks, who are already not-great strikers. Really? Never played one beyond mid heroic, so I don't know what the balance issues are.
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Feb 1, 2019 04:34
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Plutonis posted:How does Warlock/Exec work? Eldritch Strike and executioner's MBA bonus stack - and in fact, hybrid executioner gets way too much in general. You basically get to be a warlock and also have all the good parts of Executioner. If you go by the rules as written rather then how they're implemented by the character builder software, and you go a bit loosey goosey on how powers work, you can also theoretically go Dex/Cha instead of Int/Cha to grab the two good assassin encounter powers. It's really all on the executioner hybrid being poorly made, but, well, welcome to Essentials.
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Feb 1, 2019 04:49
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Is there like, a short list of classes of calsses you should actively tell players Do Not Use if you were DMing a 4e game?
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Feb 1, 2019 18:05
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"Anything from Essentials" is a pretty good metric -- that series was written by someone who, if we're being charitable, didn't understand a word of 4e's design ethos, and if we're being uncharitable was actively trying to sabotage his own product.
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Feb 1, 2019 18:17
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Yeah, now that I think about it, even when I did charop it was all for Encounters and Lair Assault at the heroic level. Keeping to the same example, the consistent riders and effects you can stack onto a Hexblade's basic attack seems pretty impressive, but I wasn't considering the powers a non-Essentials class can drop on enemies at mid-Paragon and upward.
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Feb 1, 2019 18:19
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Impermanent posted:Is there like, a short list of classes of calsses you should actively tell players Do Not Use if you were DMing a 4e game? All the stuff from PHB1 is pretty easy for a new player and in general PHB 1/2/3 classes are great and Artificer/Swordmage are fiiiiine.
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Feb 1, 2019 18:22
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Impermanent posted:Is there like, a short list of classes of calsses you should actively tell players Do Not Use if you were DMing a 4e game? For my group that had never played 4e before, I gave them these options: All PHB 1/2 classes Monk Runepriest Seeker Swordmage Artificer The final party ended up being: Paladin, Sorcerer, Wizard, Monk, Artificer, Avenger (replaced with a Cleric when another player took this spot) so a reasonable mix. Psionics can be fun but the way they interact with the core system is different enough that I took them out on the interest of keeping things simpler. If you want to keep it even simpler, you can probably dump the Monk and Runeseeker.
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Feb 1, 2019 18:31
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I've heard that the Seeker sucks? And the Avenger isn't outright bad, but seems outclassed by other strikers until its combos (specifically radiant stuff) comes together at paragon. I've noticed several people struggle with the PHB1 Cleric. Not that it's inherently bad, but it seems people get suckered into playing a Balanced Cleric when that requires some actual optimization to do well, and they'd be better off just sticking to either melee or ranged. The Battle Cleric option seems just flat-out better. I wonder if the Elemental Hexblade was introduced to make up for a perceived deficiency.
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Feb 1, 2019 18:32
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I will say that Cleric was probably the hardest one to build. There's just so many disparate options that don't work together. Luckily the player asked for a healbot and that was easier to make.
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Feb 1, 2019 18:34
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The Seeker is probably the worst class in 4e. It's the only class that can't actually do it's job.
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Feb 1, 2019 18:36
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Impermanent posted:Is there like, a short list of classes of calsses you should actively tell players Do Not Use if you were DMing a 4e game? Vampires Seekers Hexblades Shroud-option Assassins Most of the classes are functional. Anything from PHBs I and II were strong to begin with and given tons of bonus support throughout the life of the game.
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Feb 1, 2019 18:40
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Yeah, it feels like Fighter is just a better Martial controller.
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Feb 1, 2019 18:42
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Sampatrick posted:The Seeker is probably the worst class in 4e. It's the only class that can't actually do it's job. Seeker powers are nice to pick up for Hunters, at least.
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Feb 1, 2019 18:42
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Every Defender is a better Controller than the Striker
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Feb 1, 2019 18:43
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Moriatti posted:Yeah, it feels like Fighter is just a better Martial controller. Admiral Joeslop posted:I will say that Cleric was probably the hardest one to build. There's just so many disparate options that don't work together. Luckily the player asked for a healbot and that was easier to make.
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Feb 1, 2019 18:55
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The Warden is the coolest class in the game btw and if you haven't played one yet you definitely should
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Feb 1, 2019 19:20
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Cleric is very easy if you make the decision early on as to how you are going to specialize. Do not try to be both a ranged and melee cleric. It's 4E so you really want to specialize, the broadness comes from the cohesive whole of your party, not you. Melee can be STR or WIS. If you build ranged, WIS. Clerics also get mileage out of CHA as a secondary for certain things. The strongest cleric builds are generally melee. In Heroic their melee damage can rival a striker's. Healbot cleric can be tuned so high up that you waste healing at Heroic tier if you heal someone at more than 0 hit points, but it's not as optimal as "I crump it with my morning star." Yes the cleric option that gives you the invisible shield is by far the stronger of the options there and is they key ingredient in many cleric hybrids (hybrid character design is the art of taking stuff they forgot to not let you take on a hybrid). Cleric has some bad Mearls-era options, the necrotic/shadow stuff. Name Change fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Feb 3, 2019 |
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Feb 1, 2019 19:30
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Halloween Jack posted:The Monk is basically a low-key martial controller. I had fun with it, but switched out because I wasn't happy with not being able to really alpha strike. Yeah, I love that the Monk is it's own AoE, complete with the mobility to make that kinda work.
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Feb 1, 2019 20:41
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The non-monk psionic classes just fall into "spam the same low level ability forever", like the psion and the, I think, level 1 power that inflicts -cha mod to enemies to-hit. There aren't many abilities that top "bad guys miss." To jump on controllers (including the psion), controllers make the fight slower by making enemies unable to do cool things. A good controller can shut down the enemies, which is effective, but incredibly boring. Leaders, though! Grab an extra leader and watch things fly around. Turn everyone into superheroes; the enemies do cool stuff, you just do MORE cool stuff. Give a good player a warlord and everyone gets excited! Shuffle the entire board with a bard! Crush skulls AND handle healing! Leaders rule. Or, pick a sorcerer or monk (area damage) or warlock (can do controlling things, but much less boring). But I'd stay away from full controllers. Edit: Avengers are kinda less striker and more someone who can reasonably (but temporarily) work alone if needed. They don't kill the fastest (initially), but they do seem to survive a lot of trouble. Don't allow hybrids unless you know what you're doing. Gharbad the Weak fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Feb 1, 2019 |
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Feb 1, 2019 21:34
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So what are the specific problems with the hexblade? (And can you still take that feat or whatever it was that just lets a warlock take a hexblade pact?)
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Feb 1, 2019 21:59
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Halloween Jack posted:So what are the specific problems with the hexblade? No they removed the feat because the awesome summoned sword is the best part about the hexblade. Same reason they never made a hybrid hexblade. The main problem is that it's just boring. You only have two attacks and then your dalies. You can't adapt to situations, you're just kind of there. You're oozing flavor, but you're just there.
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Feb 1, 2019 22:30
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Moriatti posted:Yeah, it feels like Fighter is just a better Martial controller. Almost all defenders are strong controllers.
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Feb 2, 2019 21:11
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Vampires Add Bladesinger to the list, the class that gets Wizard encounter powers as daily powers.
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Feb 3, 2019 05:36
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aegof posted:Add Bladesinger to the list, the class that gets Wizard encounter powers as daily powers. And basically embraces and requires the optimization of a nova round.
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Feb 3, 2019 07:42
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How are Binders- a class that fundamentally doesn't work- not on that list?
berenzen fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Feb 4, 2019 |
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Feb 4, 2019 03:21
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Primarily because they're so unremarkably forgettable that everybody forgets they exist.
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Feb 4, 2019 04:12
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