|
andrew smash posted:I don't know what he was thinking of, but Gloomhaven and D&D 4th edition both have very strongly designed classes and are excellent tactical dude-moving games Pretty much what I had in mind.
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 18:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 18:40 |
|
|
taqueso posted:I felt the same way about DCSS when I started. How am I supposed to tell this bad guy is real bad vs this bad guy thats just a little bad? I do agree TOME could use some fixin up, when I feel like playing I usually talk myself out of it because I don't want to do the beginning of the game. But I'm not sure what you are left with if there aren't any enemies that can kill you. The problem isn't "there are too many enemies that can kill you", it's "there are hundreds and hundreds of chaff enemies that pose no real threat, and the game is sometimes really bad at visually distinguishing those from the half dozen enemies per dungeon that will completely kick the poo poo out of you if given the slightest opening". The solution to that isn't "nerf the dangerous enemies", it's probably some combination of "cut down on the supply of chaff enemies so players don't get bored", "add more dangerous enemies so players don't get complacent", and "make it easier to distinguish between the two so players don't rightly blame the UI for their deaths". This is why playing on harder difficulties is often recommended, since it basically does the first two of those things.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 18:23
|
|
|
taqueso posted:I felt the same way about DCSS when I started. How am I supposed to tell this bad guy is real bad vs this bad guy thats just a little bad? I do agree TOME could use some fixin up, when I feel like playing I usually talk myself out of it because I don't want to do the beginning of the game. But I'm not sure what you are left with if there aren't any enemies that can kill you. DCSS is better at differentiating this than TOME is, though. The main trick in DCSS is realizing that "guy wearing armour" is actually what most of the enemies that will murder you in the mid game look like, in comparison to the more standard early game presentation of "little is harmless, big is dangerous". Even the stupid ones in DCSS are at least visually distinct enough that after you get burned the first time you'll remember it and treat it with caution later. TOME, meanwhile, has enemies which are rather dangerous but which have tiles which are not meaningfully distinct from standard trash enemies that you'll have mashed through up to that point. They could really use like, an icon, or something on their tiles just to indicate more clearly to the player that this isn't just a troll, this is Steve, the special troll with 3 times as many stats. DCSS is also just less visually busy anyway.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 18:33
|
|
|
You can always play ToME on Insane difficulty and have almost every enemy be a deadly miniboss.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 18:58
|
|
|
TOME does put a marker on elites. For some reason it defaults to a tiny purple thing in the corner, but you can (and should) change it to a more noticeable purple frame. That said, some 'elites' are themselves harmless trash, while others are apocalyptic murder engines who casually throw 40 crippling debuffs on you the turn you enter LoS and then blast you to bits as you try to figure out what's going on because, in one of the most boneheaded UI ideas ever implemented, TOME indicates several kinds of debuffs by blurring the entire screen to unreadability. Which, notably, makes it harder to make out the aforementioned purple border that indicates which rat did this to you. megane fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Feb 1, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 18:58
|
|
|
poemdexter posted:*slaps you with 4 mutant arms* ow why  Chakan posted:If you have ideas, Unormal might be amicable. He’s here and on twitter. unormal gets to see my terrible ideas on discord all day e: on the tabletop-related subject ive been playing cultist simulator and thea the awakening and thinking about the possibility space for roguelike virtual boardgames lately theres a lot of unexplored territory make mockery fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Feb 1, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 19:05
|
|
|
RL friends who have Switches and filled said Switches with Tangledeep: I would love your feedback on the console controls. Validate my worth as a human being (or destroy it entirely, here Jedit I saved you a seat) but also help me refine it. I feel like the problem of gamepad vs every-move-counts tile board has been a tough one and this is a solution I haven't seen before-- outside of Dungeonmans, that is  I'd like to get this right and there's an opportunity for improvement in an upcoming patch.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 19:09
|
|
|
The stick-with-A-confirmation is great for combat and I like having the dpad for a way to easily roam in safe areas. So far it’s working really well, gonna have to spend more time on it though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 19:14
|
|
|
I always felt like something that would improve unique enemy readability in TOME would be a prefix to their name instead of / addition to the procedural name. An enemy that's given Berserker abilities would be Enraged, a Cursed enemy would be Hateful, et cetera. Kind of like how the Gloom has its own creature table with prefixes to distinguish the animals from their normal fare. Another thing that would be good would be narrowing the types of classes enemies can have by their creature type. Brawling bees and gunslinging dogs are hilarious, but don't make a lot of sense and contribute to the will-this-murder-me pachinko that a lot of players feel like they're experiencing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 19:45
|
|
|
I played a few more hours of Tangledeep on Switch and most of the controls have become pretty smooth. I still say offer an option of no confirm move on the right stick tho. You might as well use it for something. Gameplay Tangledeep question: is there a way to heal your pets?
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 20:15
|
|
|
As you people were talking the past days about TOME, I watched a pair of videos of tutorial/let's play thing. I even played it a bit the free version. One thing that I ended up wondering is... why there is an autoexplore option? I mean, I know why it's there, the game clearly shortens up the tedium with that option, but if you look back a bit for a second and think things through, isn't a game design failure if your game needs the autoexplore feature? Wouldn't be best to actually reduce the size of the dungeons by... three? Because they can be pretty big, and they are mostly featureless procedural maps, you don't win anything by being that big, except needing the autoexplore to make walking until you hit a monster less boring. Hell, even it made me think that gameplay wise, if the autoexplore works, it is indicative of the game is lacking something. It should matter where and how you find an enemy in a game about tactical combat. The type of terrain should matter, maybe? rocky, grassy, mud, forest, etc. Height factor in terrain? traps? Whatever.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 20:16
|
|
|
Chopstix posted:Looking for a (semi modern) roguelike co-op game to play (possibly with goons), any suggestions? I'm not too into the 2d stuff/platformer stuff, more like difficult games. Dunno about modern, and dunno about goons, but there's PWMangband for multiplayer Angband with a bunch of tweaks. There's a thread on the Angband forums. Impermanent posted:i'd rather it be that every enemy was an interesting threat rather than mindlessly chuffing through chaff until one of them isn't. Games exist that are nothing but boss fights / boss-tier encounters, which is more or less what you're talking about. But most games don't do that for pacing reasons if nothing else. If you have to be paying full attention 100% of the time, then you'll get exhausted pretty quickly. As noted, ToME has the problem of too many chaff enemies, but that doesn't mean the solution necessarily is to have no chaff enemies at all.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 20:16
|
|
|
Pull a trick from Dungeonmans' book and have the elite enemy pop up a chat bubble when you first see it. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 20:17
|
|
|
madjackmcmad posted:RL friends who have Switches and filled said Switches with Tangledeep: I would love your feedback on the console controls. Validate my worth as a human being (or destroy it entirely, here Jedit I saved you a seat) but also help me refine it. I feel like the problem of gamepad vs every-move-counts tile board has been a tough one and this is a solution I haven't seen before-- outside of Dungeonmans, that is The way the left stick works is genius for situations where you every turn counts, it’s just kinda clunky when you just need to walk around. It would be cool if I could toggle it or have it on a hold-to-use like with diagonal movement. It would also be cool if we could make custom radial rings.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 20:31
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:Games exist that are nothing but boss fights / boss-tier encounters, which is more or less what you're talking about. But most games don't do that for pacing reasons if nothing else. If you have to be paying full attention 100% of the time, then you'll get exhausted pretty quickly. As noted, ToME has the problem of too many chaff enemies, but that doesn't mean the solution necessarily is to have no chaff enemies at all. Yeah you need the chaff vs boss ratio but I think the idea of having hundreds of sprites of enemies and still have the special enemies just have a border frame is madness. Don't suddenly throw a special orc at me for a hard encounter. Use half your sprites for your elites and the other half for chaff. I should know that an orc is easy but a troll is hard and not have to figure out if it's an orc elite or a troll chieftain. I think as a D&D holdover too many games try to have a giant monster roster when they should aim for gameplay differences and not just flavor. Having orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, gnolls, kobolds, etc is pointless if they all just walk to you and do a melee attack. No one cares that Doom has a tiny number of enemies since each is distinctive. Tangledeep so far has been pretty good at this. The monster counts haven't been too crazy and so far each type has some distinct differences in how they play (attack pattern, movement, abilities with more than just math differences) instead of just stats.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 21:19
|
|
|
FuzzySlippers posted:I played a few more hours of Tangledeep on Switch and most of the controls have become pretty smooth. I still say offer an option of no confirm move on the right stick tho. You might as well use it for something. There are items and perks that let your heal items overflow to your pets, I think. For summoned pets, you can dismiss and resummon and they'll have full health I'm not familiar enough to give you a better answer yet, sorry!
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 21:33
|
|
|
Not a Children posted:There are items and perks that let your heal items overflow to your pets, I think. For summoned pets, you can dismiss and resummon and they'll have full health Corral pets automatically get half your flask healing, and they can have abilities they can use to heal themselves.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 21:43
|
|
|
Zeerust posted:I always felt like something that would improve unique enemy readability in TOME would be a prefix to their name instead of / addition to the procedural name. An enemy that's given Berserker abilities would be Enraged, a Cursed enemy would be Hateful, et cetera. Kind of like how the Gloom has its own creature table with prefixes to distinguish the animals from their normal fare. This is a very good idea, and would basically just make the information that veteran players get from years of osmosis (intuiting what enemy type it is by the smell of their particle effects ) accessible to everyone.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 22:13
|
|
|
Speaking of Tangledeep on Switch, I’m so sad that Gaslamp games is dead and there won’t be a Dungeons of Dredmor Switch port. I love that game to death and being able to play it on portable would be fan-loving-tastic.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 22:17
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:(intuiting what enemy type it is by the smell of their particle effects For a split second I thought you were just engaging in a bit of acerbic hyperbole, but then I realized you were talking about ToME4, and I ugly laughed. Jesus, this sums it up perfectly.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 22:26
|
|
|
tome rares and uniques should definitely be more noticeable. the border frame thing is too unobtrusive - it's common to not even notice a rare until they use a recognizable class skill, especially on light backgrounds and with small enemies. they should really stand out - i like the way dungeonmans does it, because just like in tome any dungeonmans monster can be a champion, but the marker for being a champion is a giant multi-hued red aura that stands out on all background colors instead of four tiny purple triangles
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 22:30
|
|
|
Emong posted:Corral pets automatically get half your flask healing, and they can have abilities they can use to heal themselves. In addition they heal overtime while in the corral, so eventually when you have 3 of them, you can rotate them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 22:49
|
|
|
Grond just completed ADOM in 1:00:10. He's currently bitching about all the time he lost. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 00:38
|
|
|
His pace and evolving tactics are makin’ me jittery, how the gently caress does he keep figuring this out so intuitively He’ll be subhour in no time, especially if he walks into a crazy good lottery
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 00:49
|
|
|
Star Traders: Frontiers counts right, do we have a thread? It's on phones too now which it really suits. It has easier settings with no permadeath though. Bit of a hard game to explain, has massive depth once you get past the strange surface.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 00:52
|
|
|
DrManiac posted:The way the left stick works is genius for situations where you every turn counts, it’s just kinda clunky when you just need to walk around. It would be cool if I could toggle it or have it on a hold-to-use like with diagonal movement.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 01:04
|
|
|
Chopstix posted:Looking for a (semi modern) roguelike co-op game to play (possibly with goons), any suggestions? I'm not too into the 2d stuff/platformer stuff, more like difficult games. I'm not much of a co-op player, so I've gotta reach a bit to come up with some. Only three of the titles have I ever played in co-op, the vast majority I haven't even looked at co-op. A few I haven't played myself but I recall the name/watched some streams. This is more of a brainstorm than a vetted list of recommendations, and the list includes some games where the co-op is local only. I could go into a couple titles in some more detail, if there were a couple that struck your interest. Turn-based: For the King Crypt of the Necrodancer FPS roguelite Mothergunship Space Beast Terror First Person Dungeon Crawl: Barony Roguelike Tower Defense Dungeon Crawl: Dungeon of the Endless Topdown action roguelites: Synthetik Enter the Gungeon Streets of Rogue Death Road to Canada Nuclear Throne Binding of Isaac: Rebirth 2d sorta platformer stuff, listed just because Spelunky Vagante Risk of Rain Magicite Caveblazers 20XX If you're interested in traditional turn-based roguelikes, we're talking ASCII non-commercial products, I've heard of one or two, but would have to actively remember what the hell they were. I'm assuming from semi-modern that's not what you're looking for.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 02:23
|
|
|
madjackmcmad posted:RL friends who have Switches and filled said Switches with Tangledeep: I would love your feedback on the console controls. Validate my worth as a human being (or destroy it entirely, here Jedit I saved you a seat) but also help me refine it. I feel like the problem of gamepad vs every-move-counts tile board has been a tough one and this is a solution I haven't seen before-- outside of Dungeonmans, that is Pretty solid, I like the stick to pick a direction and A to confirm setup. Menu management does not feel as slick as in-world navigation does, but I'm kind of stumped as to what specific changes I'd prefer because the menus are pretty dense by their nature. I can tell you that within menus I often find myself trying to use the left stick when I'm supposed to be using the d-pad, and vice versa -- I'm still not sure how exactly they function differently but they do.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 07:36
|
|
|
Also thanks for the port! I'm loving this. Is Tangledeep the "purest" roguelike to ever get a console release? I think it might be
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 07:37
|
|
|
Brendan Rodgers posted:Star Traders: Frontiers counts right, do we have a thread? It's on phones too now which it really suits. It has easier settings with no permadeath though. Star Traders is great! Does it actually work well on phones? It seems like everything would be just way too small. We do have a thread for it here https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3856470 but it's not very active.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 07:44
|
|
|
goferchan posted:Also thanks for the port! I'm loving this. Is Tangledeep the "purest" roguelike to ever get a console release? I think it might be It's a mysterydungeonlike
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 07:51
|
|
|
Jedit posted:Grond just completed ADOM in 1:00:10. He's currently bitching about all the time he lost. Is there a replay or vod of this anywhere? I'm the sick bastard who enjoys watching other people play roguelikes.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 07:57
|
|
|
Tonfa posted:It's a mysterydungeonlike I guess it sort of is although you do have a mode that removes all permanent progression. Personally I heavily associate the food clock with mystery dungeonlikes, which is noticeably absent in tangledeep, but of course that's also a feature in most traditional RLs as well. I never played before the Switch release so I'm sure most people in this thread know much more about tangledeep than me though. Personally, so far, I really really love the variety of player skills and the tactical combat that makes you think about positioning . I also appreciate that there are avenues for infinite grinding because sometimes I find it really chill and satisfying to just grind
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 08:07
|
|
|
RickVoid posted:Is there a replay or vod of this anywhere? https://www.twitch.tv/yulgash
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 08:11
|
|
|
MORE TAXES WHEN posted:Star Traders is great! Does it actually work well on phones? It seems like everything would be just way too small. Thanks for the link, it's working great on my s9, might be worth trying out and then refunding if it just ain't doin it for you, which I know works on Android at least. Extremely rogue like game imo. Very enjoyable to die and reroll in.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 08:42
|
|
|
goferchan posted:Also thanks for the port! I'm loving this. Is Tangledeep the "purest" roguelike to ever get a console release? I think it might be There have been roguelikes on consoles back at least to the SMS, definitely predating the Mystery Dungeon genre. From what I've seen of Dragon Crystal it's a pretty by-the-numbers randomized dungeon crawler.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 15:47
|
|
|
LordSloth posted:I'm not much of a co-op player, so I've gotta reach a bit to come up with some. Only three of the titles have I ever played in co-op, the vast majority I haven't even looked at co-op. A few I haven't played myself but I recall the name/watched some streams. This is more of a brainstorm than a vetted list of recommendations, and the list includes some games where the co-op is local only. I could go into a couple titles in some more detail, if there were a couple that struck your interest. Swap between having your friend pick a Dredmor class mix for you and you playing it and you picking and them playing it. Used to do that with a girlfriend from a while back and it’s usually hilarious. You probably won’t get too far.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 15:56
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:There have been roguelikes on consoles back at least to the SMS, definitely predating the Mystery Dungeon genre. From what I've seen of Dragon Crystal it's a pretty by-the-numbers randomized dungeon crawler. Holy poo poo, it's a precursor to Fatal Labyrinth! I had no idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVaIV8y7MPg vs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9fAXU2iCBQ  Awesome! I'm sitting here thinking I would love to play this and also that I would be frustrated and sad in 10 minutes maybe... but who knows?
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 16:38
|
|
|
madjackmcmad posted:RL friends who have Switches and filled said Switches with Tangledeep: I would love your feedback on the console controls. Validate my worth as a human being (or destroy it entirely, here Jedit I saved you a seat) but also help me refine it. I feel like the problem of gamepad vs every-move-counts tile board has been a tough one and this is a solution I haven't seen before-- outside of Dungeonmans, that is I was playing this a shitload yesterday. You did a great job with the port! I was expecting the lack of mouse to make it kinda wonky but it's pretty much golden. Like this is out of my rear end just so I can say at least one bad thing, but I think the only thing that is missing from my time playing - and it might already be there but I couldn't find the button - is a quick swap between the hotbars instead of having to hit the directionals a few times after pressing X. Like, maybe holding X to get to the other hotbar from at-rest. It's not a big deal, but with the delay of moving about menus it does make it feel less responsive. Oh, and there's some weird fuckery with the feed pet menu at the corral where you can only get dumped out of the conversation if you decide you're done shoving food down the pet's throat. You can't select the back button.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 17:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 18:40 |
|
|
alarumklok posted:I was playing this a shitload yesterday. You did a great job with the port! I was expecting the lack of mouse to make it kinda wonky but it's pretty much golden. Like this is out of my rear end just so I can say at least one bad thing, but I think the only thing that is missing from my time playing - and it might already be there but I couldn't find the button - is a quick swap between the hotbars instead of having to hit the directionals a few times after pressing X. Like, maybe holding X to get to the other hotbar from at-rest. It's not a big deal, but with the delay of moving about menus it does make it feel less responsive. Soooooo there's an unsupported and unannounced input feature where if you hold X down and flick your right joycon it might maybe change to the next hotbar. I was loving around with that because optional motion controls are neato, but there wasn't time to properly polish and implement good ones so I dropped it. quote:It's not a big deal, but with the delay of moving about menus it does make it feel less responsive. Like the cursor isn't moving around fast enough?
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 17:24
|
|